Seperate Club Forums

Mitch Connor

Fake Locke wrote: »

Iago suggested i put the case for subforums. So anyone who wishes to post suggestions can do so up on my letstalksoccer where those in favour can put up their arguments for it. This thread is getting to messy so if we have topic for it will be easier to read. I think if we can hand over two documents (case for and against) to Iago and then give them to him he can put something to the forum at the end of the season.

what the hell is your 'letstalksoccer'?

Spud83

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what the hell is your 'letstalksoccer'?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/group.php?groupid=213.

It has no nonsense in the tag line though so you won't get in.

Spiritoftheseventies

its a social group on my page. Aiming to end inter club rivalries by talking about topic of the day or week.. Will put forward a case based on contributions of others from here. Have set up the discussion thread now. Am looking to set aside our differences here. I am only arguing the case for. Someone on the other side can do likewise.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=388.
I will put forward my case while attempting to sum up the feelings of those for it as well. The aim is have our representations made heard come the end of year review.

Boggles

Fake Locke wrote: »

its a social group on my page. Aiming to end inter club rivalries by talking about topic of the day or week..

Why do you want to end Club rivalries?

Spiritoftheseventies

Simple enough Boggles. It leads to trouble. Minks infamous list is proof of that. Too many posters acting the eejit at the moment. Banter is okay but the balance is all wrong. What im suggesting is to put the case for the forums without all the nonsense that is going on here.
Have enough suggestions here but the discussion has been impeded a bit. Iago has asked me to put the case for. I intend to do that.

GLaDOS

Boggles wrote: »

Why do you want to end Club rivalries?

Fake Locke wrote: »

Simple enough Boggles. It leads to trouble. Minks infamous list is proof of that. Too many posters acting the eejit at the moment. Banter is okay but the balance is all wrong. What im suggesting is to put the case for the forums without all the nonsense that is going on here.
Have enough suggestions here but the discussion has been impeded a bit. Iago has asked me to put the case for. I intend to do that.

Rivalry isn't the problem, trolls and over sensitive people are. If there was no rivalry the soccer forum would be a shadow of itself

Spiritoftheseventies

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Rivalry isn't the problem, trolls and over sensitive people are. If there was no rivalry the soccer forum would be a shadow of itself

the trolls and the over sensitive posters unfortunately form a lot of the soccer boards unfortunately. If Rugby forum is making it an issue over something relatively quiet then its a bigger issue on SF.

Iago

Fake Locke wrote: »

the trolls and the over sensitive posters unfortunately form a lot of the soccer boards unfortunately. If Rugby forum is making it an issue over something relatively quiet then its a bigger issue on SF.

If we accept that this is an issue, and in your view the key issue, then how will seperate club forums change it when access won't be restricted to supporters of that club?

SantryRed

Fake Locke wrote: »

the trolls and the over sensitive posters unfortunately form a lot of the soccer boards unfortunately. If Rugby forum is making it an issue over something relatively quiet then its a bigger issue on SF.

You do realise they aren't trolls or over-sensitive posters just because your posts are idiotic, do not make sense and have to be quoted because half of them are so stupid they can't be let go.

Spiritoftheseventies

Iago wrote: »

If we accept that this is an issue, and in your view the key issue, then how will seperate club forums change it when access won't be restricted to supporters of that club?

My idea is to introdce a 12 point gradable penalty system to come under trolling, needling and abuse for example.
Where a poster is seen to be needling over a long period of time and a clear pattern emerges posters gets an infraction. On a second infraction within lets say space of a month he gets a week ban. all the time the points add up.
Am suggesting each club appoints a representative who will liase with mods over who is making trouble on that site. Trouble could come from a regular poster. Transparency is the key here.
As xavi said yesterday it is impossible to read every page on pool thread but i have seen enough to know that there are occassionally problems there.
As for a template I am suggesting that soccer gets its own thread on top of mains boards page which makes the drop down menu easier to manage. This may seem controversial but as Des said it gets enough hits to warrent its own section.
This is basically how your sub forum lay out would look like.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99
Four to six categories.

Iago

Fake Locke wrote: »

My idea is to introdce a 12 point gradable penalty system to come under trolling, needling and abuse for example.
Where a poster is seen to be needling over a long period of time and a clear pattern emerges posters gets an infraction. On a second infraction within lets say space of a month he gets a week ban. all the time the points add up.
Am suggesting each club appoints a representative who will liase with mods over who is making trouble on that site.
As xavi said yesterday it is impossible to read every page on pool thread but i have seen enough to know that there are occassionally problems there.

That's a completely different subject though.

As I see it you're trying to argue for four things

1) A different system of moderation
2) Seperate Club forums
3) A sub-forum for superthreads
4) The right to post Liverpool incidental threads in the main forum

4) above may be irrelevant if 2) is realised.

Stick to one argument at a time rather than all four, and I'd suggest sticking to the sub-forum for clubs/superthreads as that's the only one that has any, albeit a very small minority, support even in this thread.

Fake Locke wrote:

As for a template I am suggesting that soccer gets its own thread on top of page which makes the drop down menu easier to manage.
This would basically how your sub forum lay out would look like.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

This already exists http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=680

Mr Alan

wats needling?

GLaDOS

Mr Alan wrote: »

wats needling?

I think it's like flaming, but less severe, ie. annoying posters with little digs instead of outright insults

Mr Alan

surely that's impossible to define though, for example, phb saying Rafa has wasted millions on the Liverpool thread will annoy people, but that's just his belief.

LoLth

hmmm, so you are proposing:

soccer as a seperate category on its own.

Sub forums for each club to "reduce trolls"

appointment of mod-liaison users to work with the mods of the soccer forum and a twelve point penalty system.

y'know it sounds good on paper but.

1. If soccer is a category of its own, why isnt rugby or poker or any of the other sports that have clubs/leagues/competitions? In this you're not talking about a change to the soccer forum, you're talking about a change to boards.ie and so you have to think about the ramifications to boards.ie as a whole.

2. Sub forums for each club > see my logistics post earlier on. How many clubs? who decides which club gets a forum? is it fair to discriminate against a supporter for supporting a little known club? How many leagues or countries will be covered? How much traffic will be required to keep a sub-forum active?

3. mod-liaison users: why? would these be considered "mods" of the subforum? How would they be chosen? What sort of guidelines would they have to follow? How would they comunicate with each other to formalise disciplinary procedure and cross-reference troublemakers?

Can all this not be done by users? Actually, scratch that, should users not already be doing this by reporting posts to the mods as they see them? You're adding a new layer of beauracracy here and thats not necessarily a good thing, SMODS were absorbed into admins to remove a layer of "limbo". This would just add that layer back in except without any official status or power to back up their authority.

4. 12 point penalty system with increasing degrees of discipline for repeat offenses and allowance made for the "straw that broke the camels back" type situations. Already in place and the mods are applying it as they see fit. I dont see an overhaul as necessary. maybe a change in how it is applied? that should be discussed before thinking about re-writing it.

Its all well and good, and indeed encouraging to see users want to better their fora but you also have to think beyond just the community you are part of and take the wider picture into account. I am neither for nor against the ideas you present. If it gets support and the mods agree to pass it along then the ideas will be discussed from a broader reaching POV. No point in every user agreeing that day-glo pink is a good background colour for a theme if the site-wide repercussions dont warrant it. Similarly, "hide thread" option, sounds great, it really does and I'd love it but no matter how many users want it, if its not possible within the given framework (VBulletin) without huge disruption to other functions then its not going to happen.

5starpool

Mr Alan wrote: »

surely that's impossible to define though, for example, phb saying Rafa has wasted millions on the Liverpool thread will annoy people, but that's just his belief.

The most important poster in each thread should be the High Arbitrar of Needling Accusations, or HANA for short, and they can then demand censure for the relevant poster from the mods. How can it fail.

_blank_

Fake Lock, the system of yellow/red cards adding up to a ban/permanent ban which has been implemented in the Rugby Forum was stolen unashamedly from the very same system which is in use in the Soccer Forum at this very moment.

Read this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61404706&postcount=7

Spiritoftheseventies

LoLth wrote: »

hmmm, so you are proposing:

soccer as a seperate category on its own.

Sub forums for each club to "reduce trolls"

appointment of mod-liaison users to work with the mods of the soccer forum and a twelve point penalty system.

y'know it sounds good on paper but.

1. If soccer is a category of its own, why isnt rugby or poker or any of the other sports that have clubs/leagues/competitions? In this you're not talking about a change to the soccer forum, you're talking about a change to boards.ie and so you have to think about the ramifications to boards.ie as a whole.

Because I dont think they get as much traffic. This forum is extremely popular so deserves greater attention

2. Sub forums for each club > see my logistics post earlier on. How many clubs? who decides which club gets a forum? is it fair to discriminate against a supporter for supporting a little known club? How many leagues or countries will be covered? How much traffic will be required to keep a sub-forum active?

The clubs with the most traffic get it. United and Liverpool are two very obvious ones. Some need it some dont.

3. mod-liaison users: why? would these be considered "mods" of the subforum? How would they be chosen? What sort of guidelines would they have to follow? How would they comunicate with each other to formalise disciplinary procedure and cross-reference troublemakers?

Simple procedure. Club forum nominates an officer. Poster who has a problem takes it up with him. If Club forum Liason officer feels there is a case he can take it to mod. Also cuts down on number of complaints that mod will have to take.


Can all this not be done by users? Actually, scratch that, should users not already be doing this by reporting posts to the mods as they see them? You're adding a new layer of beauracracy here and thats not necessarily a good thing, SMODS were absorbed into admins to remove a layer of "limbo". This would just add that layer back in except without any official status or power to back up their authority.

The issue of mod bias for me seems to crop up here still as what happened before christmas (came up three or four times on this site). A poster taking his case to his own club represenative will make for a decision. More transparency.

4. 12 point penalty system with increasing degrees of discipline for repeat offenses and allowance made for the "straw that broke the camels back" type situations. Already in place and the mods are applying it as they see fit. I dont see an overhaul as necessary. maybe a change in how it is applied? that should be discussed before thinking about re-writing it.

I dont think they are applying it from what i can see because laws have ben relaxed. Iago made a point about the pros and cons of this yesterday

the implmentation of stricter moderation had users up in arms earlier in the season, and now the lack of strict moderation has users up in arms at the tail end of the season.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64733844&postcount=220

My view is there is far too much needling and photo posting by posters who feel they need to make a point. One or two are already up on this thread. Its bumping the topic IMO.

Its all well and good, and indeed encouraging to see users want to better their fora but you also have to think beyond just the community you are part of and take the wider picture into account. I am neither for nor against the ideas you present. If it gets support and the mods agree to pass it along then the ideas will be discussed from a broader reaching POV. No point in every user agreeing that day-glo pink is a good background colour for a theme if the site-wide repercussions dont warrant it. Similarly, "hide thread" option, sounds great, it really does and I'd love it but no matter how many users want it, if its not possible within the given framework (VBulletin) without huge disruption to other functions then its not going to happen.

replies in bold. Ill take the rest of the day off on this thread as there are still some posters on here I was trying to avoid on SF and dont have As such it is a bit of a merry go round. Leaving the floor open to others to get the debate back on track.
Cordially yours
Bay

Mr Alan

this is ridiculous, some posters you want to avoid so you'll take the rest of the day off, 99% of people posting here are respected soccer forum regulars, would you like them to just go away so you can contine to try and dictate how our forum is run?

Jazzy

blablabla more over dramatic nonsense and over complicated solutions. some posters that you dont want to be here or something?? what in the blue hell are you talking about? so many ppl wasting time on one poster who is a bit miffed that he looks like an idiot so instead of taking his licks he just spams across 2 different accounts. people should just stop wasting their time on bayviewseventieslocke or whatever the hell hes calling himself. its just a big tangle of words and lots of facepalm. either he learns how to use internet forums properly or he doesnt. not our, or boards' problem to be frank

~Rebel~

I'm truly baffled....

...all I can see across a whole bunch of threads at the moment is a one man crusade to shake up the soccer forum and bring truth and justice to all....

...by someone who isn't going to use the soccer forum anymore...

....while noone else is really complaining very much at all...

Getting the impression this is more self importance personal battle then anything else...


<edit> thank you so much for offering to leave the floor open for us..........

flahavaj

I can count 27 counts of SOTS/fake locke/bayviewclose needling other members in this thread since yesterday. By his 12 step system he and his other two accounts would have been banned twice over. Progress. I like it.

Frisbee

Fake Locke wrote: »

Ill take the rest of the day off on this thread as there are still some posters on here I was trying to avoid on SF and dont have

Here it is, the real reason of your complaint.

You have a problem with certain posters and want a change because of it.

Basically what you've said here is that your not posting in this thread again today is because there is people disagreeing with you. which I think is your main problem. You don't like when people disagree with you / give out about Pool.

Actual Soccer forum users are obviously going to post in this thread mate, you can't expect people who use the Soccer Forum not to get involved in a debate jsut because you can't handle what they say.

event

Fake Locke wrote: »

okay Iago im going to direct this for your attention. As a former member of the soccer forum, i feel consensus has to be reached here. Come up with something that everyone can agree with on the forum structure. By the looks of it, opinion is divided fifty fify on the issue of a subforum of a super thread. And the suggestion by one poster that 99 per cent was behind the status quo was way off the mark.
Anyway will draw up a document on how i think a sub forum could be structured that would benefit everyone on these boards.
And while i am no longer a member of these soccer boards I still reserve the right to contribute on this thread as a former member.

no its not, not by a long stretch

Spiritoftheseventies

event wrote: »

no its not, not by a long stretch

Nine votes seperate the yay and nay sayers.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055835310&page=13

5starpool

One thing I will say in all seriousness is that if bvcsotsfl thinks it has been bad in the soccer forum for the last 6 months, he should be glad he wasn't around at various other points over the course of the last few years as imo it has certainly been worse than it is now, especially in the Liverpool thread.

Dub13

SOS,You are now proposing a complete over hall of every aspect of the Soccer forum.And this from a user who is not even a member a year.

The soccer forum has a evolving charter,we are one of the few forums on boards that periodically go to the members and ask how our we doing and what would you like.The soccer forum has its problems many in fact but its in a much better place now than it was a few years ago,this season alone has been relative quite on the 'scandal' front.

Frisbee

Dub13 wrote: »

SOS,You are now proposing a complete over hall of every aspect of the Soccer forum.And this from a user who is not even a member a year.

As well as no longer being a member.

flahavaj

Fake Locke wrote: »

Nine votes seperate the yay and nay sayers.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055835310&page=13

Thought you were taking the day off?

Parody at this stage, novelty has run out.

Mr Alan

Fake Locke wrote: »

Nine votes seperate the yay and nay sayers.

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055835310&page=13

That vote is just to move the superthreads into a seperate forum, not for anything like the changes you are proposing here