Seperate Club Forums

therecklessone

monkey9 wrote: »

Now, while i understand the Liverpool one being turned down for certain reasons, it's ridiculous that a Spurs one exists.

Why is this?? Surely, the Spurs forum should be scrapped as it's completely unfair that this is the only club forum in existence while other club ones are banned.

How did this even come about. Why not a Villa one? Or an Everton one?

I'm not going to waste my time debating the rights and wrongs of why the forum exists, it does and I'm proud of the fact that it does.

It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside to see boards posters wanting to destroy a community (small, but dedicated all the same) because they cannot get their way.

Another reason why I post less and less on this site...

Dub13

Time Magazine wrote: »

Why would Boards have a Soccer forum at all since there's foot.ie (or whatever)?

Boards is going to be the biggest communication vehicle in Ireland. If it's big enough to simultaneously host an Adoption forum, an Accountancy forum and an Archery forum, it's big enough for a Liverpool forum, a Man United forum and a general Soccer forum.

Aside from the obvious profit motive, Boards should move into this market because its users (like me) would like it. I want a Villa forum here. You want to force me to stay in one forum. When there's a critical mass of posters that want to break-out, then who are you (or I) to force them to stay somewhere? It's a very elitist attitude. I don't think that's really your call, to be honest.

Of course Boards is big enough to host Specific club forums but the argument I am putting forward is the harm it would do to the forum,bigger is not necessarily better and we don't even know if it would increase traffic but it would certainly harm out uniqueness.

We disagree on the numbers I don't think it would increase the traffic by that much it will just split it into different groups.I never said it was my call,I am in this thread giving the soccer mods & the majority of the forum users opinion.

Zaph wrote: »

A sub-forum for the superthreads is an interesting idea. Obviously the load on the servers in moving the existing threads would be too much to do it now, but it's something that could be looked at when it's time to create next season's threads during the summer.

IMO we could do this immediately by just closing the current super threads and starting new ones in the new sub forum.People only tend to go back a few pages anyway as the topics been discussed move so fast.

event

monkey9 wrote: »

This is something that hasn't been answered. A while ago, a seperate Liverpool forum request was turned down, yet a Spurs one exists.

Now, while i understand the Liverpool one being turned down for certain reasons, it's ridiculous that a Spurs one exists.

Why is this?? Surely, the Spurs forum should be scrapped as it's completely unfair that this is the only club forum in existence while other club ones are banned.

How did this even come about. Why not a Villa one? Or an Everton one?

mike65

therecklessone you might as well leave now if you are not going to justify your forums existence.

Zaph

Dub13 wrote: »

IMO we could do this immediately by just closing the current super threads and starting new ones in the new sub forum.People only tend to go back a few pages anyway as the topics been discussed move so fast.

That's a fair point, and the original threads would still be there if someone wanted to go further back. However, before a sub-forum is created I think it might be worthwhile having a poll to be sure that it's something the majority of soccer forum users would actually want.

Spud83

mike65 wrote: »

therecklessone you might as well leave now if you are not going to justify your forums existence.

Don't see why it should be his job to justify the existence of said forum. Its not "his", he just mods it.

Time Magazine

Dub13 wrote: »

I am in this thread giving the soccer mods & the majority of the forum users opinion.

The majority of those who answered. It's a bit like asking Pepsi drinkers if they prefer Pepsi or Coke and concluding that the majority prefer Pepsi.

I admit my view is pure speculation, but you can't ignore that the current system could be isolating would-be users. And as I've said, to the best of my knowledge, no speculative categorisation like this has ever failed before.

Dub13

--amadeus-- wrote: »

The main objection to club sub-forums seems to be that interclub interaction is to be encouraged. And you're right you don't get that on club specific forums like irishkop. But then why would you - they are boards that are only visited by Liverpool fans. Boards soccer forum gets a multitude of cross club traffic so you aren't comparing like with like.

Right now the soccer forum gets a multitude of cross club traffic,but split the for and Liverpool fans will post in the Liverpool forum and Utd fans in the Utd forum and so on.They will only venture out when there rivals have a bad day.

I post on a lot club specify forums and one thing I have noticed is when you get a dedicated rival fan coming onto the forum to talk about football not wind the users up then this leads to great debate.now we on the boards soccer forum are trying to do this on a much bigger scale.

_blank_

mike65 wrote: »

therecklessone you might as well leave now if you are not going to justify your forums existence.

It's not tro who has to justify that. It exists. It probably shouldn't, but that's not his problem.

Dub13

Zaph wrote: »

That's a fair point, and the original threads would still be there if someone wanted to go further back. However, before a sub-forum is created I think it might be worthwhile having a poll to be sure that it's something the majority of soccer forum users would actually want.

I will do one up now.

Time Magazine wrote: »

The majority of those who answered. It's a bit like asking Pepsi drinkers if they prefer Pepsi or Coke and concluding that the majority prefer Pepsi.

I admit my view is pure speculation, but you can't ignore that the current system could be isolating would-be users. And as I've said, to the best of my knowledge, no speculative categorisation like this has ever failed before.

Thats like saying if everybody in the country used there vote FF would not be in power,we cant say that and as you said you view is pure speculation.We asked the question and got an answer I don't think we can be criticized for not taken on the views of people who did not answer.

Dub13

Poll started....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055835310

Otis Driftwood

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I really can't see the issue with having club specific sub forums in teh soccer forum.

I find the superthread pretty much unreadable - it's so long and detailed that you need to go back three or four pages to find the original post that's been quoted on the last page. But that is in response to something from a page or two back, etc. Unless you read the thread every day it's a jumble.

My sentiments exactly,the superthreads are a mess.Teams like United and Liverpool have a massive fan base over here.Restricting everything related to those teams to one thread is pretty ridiculous in fairness,the tv show Glee got its own forum despite having 2 existing threads in the television forum for gods sake.

Dub13

nedtheshed wrote: »

My sentiments exactly,the superthreads are a mess.Teams like United and Liverpool have a massive fan base over here.Restricting everything related to those teams to one thread is pretty ridiculous in fairness,the tv show Glee got its own forum despite having 2 existing threads in the television forum for gods sake.

Everything is not restricted to one thread,far from it.Ideal day to day chat that does not require its own thread is in the super threads.Its ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Frisbee

Club specific sub-forums would kill the soccer forum imo.

The community would be broken down into 7 or 8 smaller communities and the soccer forum itself would slowly die as it sees less and less traffic as people would only be going to their own sub-forum.

K-9

Frisbee wrote: »

Club specific sub-forums would kill the soccer forum imo.

The community would be broken down into 7 or 8 smaller communities and the soccer forum itself would slowly die as it sees less and less traffic as people would only be going to their own sub-forum.

Well, you could still have the match day threads on the main forum, threads on the internationals, World Cup, Champions League etc.

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

Club specific sub-forums would kill the soccer forum imo.

I used to think that. But recently I've come to think it's already past the point of rescue. The problem is the sheer influx in people of the last year or so who have little awareness (or in some cases respect) for the original conventions of the forum. This has left the community very fragmented. Those of us who joined boards because of the uniqueness of the soccer forum are now outnumbered by those who post out of convenience (as boards has become the one stop shop for everything these days).

The soccer forum, like everything else on the internet, has rapidly changed. Like many people I know, I no longer find the cross over discussions between different fansets to be in anyway stimulating, there is simply too much noise and partisanship. I have my niche that keeps me coming back, but no longer feel any affinity to the forum as a whole.

I don't see a point in holding onto the old ways any more. The forum has simply changed too much, the super threads and their associated communities dominate everything these days. When you think about it sub forums for the active niche's might drive new life into the main soccer forum, a spring cleaning so to speak to give it a new meaning and attraction.

Either way you're not going to prevent the current dynamic from changing so you might as well go with the flow.

Dont be at yourself

Dub13 wrote:

Right now the soccer forum gets a multitude of cross club traffic,but split the for and Liverpool fans will post in the Liverpool forum and Utd fans in the Utd forum and so on.They will only venture out when there rivals have a bad day.

I don't get this logic. How is it easier in any real way to navigate to a Liverpool forum than a Liverpool superthread? If people want to talk about Liverpool, they can just as easily navigate to the Liverpool Forum instead of the Liverpool Superthread. The same goes if they want to post about a more general soccer point.

Dub13

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I don't get this logic. How is it easier in any real way to navigate to a Liverpool forum than a Liverpool superthread? If people want to talk about Liverpool, they can just as easily navigate to the Liverpool Forum instead of the Liverpool Superthread. The same goes if they want to post about a more general soccer point.

Look at the Spurs super thread,you will have to look long and hard to find it as it has not had a post in months.The point being that the spurs lads now mostly only post on that forum so Spurs only pop up on the main forum when they are playing one of the big ( ) clubs.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I used to think that. But recently I've come to think it's already past the point of rescue. The problem is the sheer influx in people of the last year or so who have little awareness (or in some cases respect) for the original conventions of the forum. This has left the community very fragmented. Those of us who joined boards because of the uniqueness of the soccer forum are now outnumbered by those who post out of convenience (as boards has become the one stop shop for everything these days).

The soccer forum, like everything else on the internet, has rapidly changed. Like many people I know, I no longer find the cross over discussions between different fansets to be in anyway stimulating, there is simply too much noise and partisanship. I have my niche that keeps me coming back, but no longer feel any affinity to the forum as a whole.

I don't see a point in holding onto the old ways any more. The forum has simply changed too much, the super threads and their associated communities dominate everything these days. When you think about it sub forums for the active niche's might drive new life into the main soccer forum, a spring cleaning so to speak to give it a new meaning and attraction.

Either way you're not going to prevent the current dynamic from changing so you might as well go with the flow.

Excellent post and I have to say I agree with a lot of it.The main difference is I have not given up on the soccer forum yet.I do believe we can make it work,in my mind it would be taken the easy option to brake the forum up.

Dont be at yourself

Dub13 wrote: »

Look at the Spurs super thread,you will have to look long and hard to find it as it has not had a post in months.The point being that the spurs lads now mostly only post on that forum so Spurs only pop up on the main forum when they are playing one of the big ( ) clubs.

But that's different. There's a Spurs forum that replaces the purpose of the Spurs superthread, so of course it's well down the page. Many of the people who post on the Spurs forum also do so on the Soccer forum, and many of those that don't wouldn't do so anyway even if there were no Spurs forum.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

Look at the Spurs super thread,you will have to look long and hard to find it as it has not had a post in months.The point being that the spurs lads now mostly only post on that forum so Spurs only pop up on the main forum when they are playing one of the big ( ) clubs.

I think part of the reason for this is that it's maintained as a hosted forum, meaning it's totally out of the way and there's no reason for Spurs fans to crossover, there's no need for them to even have awareness of the soccer forum. Put it as a subforum and you're actively redirecting spurs traffic through the main forum. It mightn't make a noticeable difference in the end, but it'll increase the chances of a casual Spurs fan actively engaging with the main forum, a curious click on the soccer pagination link or as a link in response to a spurs related google etc.

Dub13 wrote: »

Excellent post and I have to say I agree with a lot of it.The main difference is I have not given up on the soccer for yet.I do believe we can make it work,in my mind it would be taken the easy option to brake the forum up.

You're right. Breaking it up is the easy option. The problem is how much effort will it take to maintain the current dynamic? You've either got to change the mindset of a sizable proportion of the existing users or else exclude them entirely imo.

I see the other proposal is to split the superthreads off into a new sub forum. But I can't see how that will make much difference either. You're effectively splitting the existing community right down the middle between those who want to engage outside their own team and those who don't. It'll make the main forum appear neater but I don't think will change the dynamic of the forum much tbh. All I see it offering is worst of both worlds, the insularity of team sub forums coupled with the factionalized match day discussions.

Dub13

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

But that's different. There's a Spurs forum that replaces the purpose of the Spurs superthread, so of course it's well down the page. Many of the people who post on the Spurs forum also do so on the Soccer forum, and many of those that don't wouldn't do so anyway even if there were no Spurs forum.

But would a Utd forum not only replace the Utd super thread but also the match day threads and other big Utd story's,all this taken away from the main forum.

So for example when Utd are playing Liverpool and I want to follow the game on boards,I will now have to check a thread on the Utd forum one on the Liverpool forum and maybe one on the main forum.Imagen it was a Super Sunday and Arsenal were also playing Chelsea,to follow 2 game I would now have to pop into 4 forums and maybe 5 threads.

I just don't see it working.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I see the other proposal is to split the superthreads off into a new sub forum. But I can't see how that will make much difference either. You're effectively splitting the existing community right down the middle between those who want to engage outside their own team and those who don't. It'll make the main forum appear neater but I don't think will change the dynamic of the forum much tbh. All I see it offering is worst of both worlds, the insularity of team sub forums coupled with the factionalized match day discussions.

This proposal is designed to give the main forum more room to grow and not be clogged up by super threads,today I believe there was 6/7 on the main page alone.

LuckyLloyd

The "go with the flow" argument is incredibly weak sauce to me. The forum is not perfect (never has been and never will be), and it has probably gone downhill from a peak sometime towards the end of 2008. But it kicks ass in comparison to every ****ing retard fest single club forum on the Internet (or offensive mud slinging competition on the likes of football365). This is the key point in this debate. You have something that is infinitely better than everything else out there. The calls for categorization come from those who are used to what is out there, prefer the simpler nature of what is out there ('our rivals can **** off'), and feel a sense of entitlement to have the forum here like everything else out there. Yes of course the forum isn't maximizing traffic when it isn't actively attempting to host club specific forums that are #1 for Irish fans. Why on earth would anyone outside of the founding admins / boards.ie give a **** though?

The minute you split up the forum you will have given up on it quality wise, make no mistake about that. You only need to see the hostility generated by club threads ('it's ours you know') to imagine how much the discussion would narrow if there were club forums. If you want to do the right thing, and be involved in a forum that is genuinely one of the very best available then you will fight this tooth and nail, and grimly "cling" to the way things are.

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm not going to waste my time debating the rights and wrongs of why the forum exists, it does and I'm proud of the fact that it does.

It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside to see boards posters wanting to destroy a community (small, but dedicated all the same) because they cannot get their way.

Another reason why I post less and less on this site...

Every time someone throws their toys out of the pram over the existence of the spurs supporters forum I make a mental note to the effect that they are a ****ing child, and should have their future posts disregarded as often as possible. But that is the attitude the current soccer set up is fighting against. The bitterness and enmity that gets thrown up between opposing factions of football fans knows no boundries in terms of pettiness. What no-one realizes / notices / remembers is that the guys posting in the spurs forum don't give a **** about any of ye. They are completely isolated as a group from the main forum. That in itself should give any reasonable person indefinite pause when it comes to further splitting out of the main forum. If you make conclaves, fans will disappear into them and shut the door behind.

mike65 wrote: »

therecklessone you might as well leave now if you are not going to justify your forums existence.

lol at the idea that he should be demanded to do a jig for you. He doesn't have to defend the forum from a procedural point of view. Nor does he need to do it for the benefit of his community. They don't give a **** about the soccer forum / this discussion / boards.ie. If you attempt to move them into the main forum, they'll host the forum somewhere else. If you want to badmouth them or whine about their forum, it isn't reaching them.

And you all want more of this? :rolleyes:

_blank_

great post lloyd. Sums up my feelings exactly.

Frisbee

Dub13 wrote: »

But would a Utd forum not only replace the Utd super thread but also the match day threads and other big Utd story's,all this taken away from the main forum.

So for example when Utd are playing Liverpool and I want to follow the game on boards,I will now have to check a thread on the Utd forum one on the Liverpool forum and maybe one on the main forum.Imagen it was a Super Sunday and Arsenal were also playing Chelsea,to follow 2 game I would now have to pop into 4 forums and maybe 5 threads.

This is a point I was going to raise actually.

Say Arsenal are playing United. The fairest way to do it will be to put a match thread in the soccer forum. But these match threads often turn into week long superthreads of their own.

So you also most likely going to end up with threads in the Arsenal and United forums too.

So say you want to follow the match and debate with supporters of other teams your going to have three threads all about the same subject to post in.

SantryRed

Why not have a hide thread option if it's possible? Meaning the whole community is still in the one forum but the superthreads would not be cluttering up everyone's pages.

copacetic

Dub13 wrote: »

I post on a lot club specify forums and one thing I have noticed is when you get a dedicated rival fan coming onto the forum to talk about football not wind the users up then this leads to great debate.now we on the boards soccer forum are trying to do this on a much bigger scale.

Thats a lovely aim, but it is a million miles removed from what the soccer forum is or has been for a couple of years. A dedicated rival fan who signs up for a rivals forum (for more than a short lived trolling visit) is generally open to reasoned discussion and careful of their own behaviour. As they have to be.

The soccer forum doesn't have this, it has a large number of constant noisy posters, combined with posters who rarely post re other clubs except when they smell a bit of blood in the water.


As for the superthread sub-forum, it's a feckin ludicrous idea. Basically agreeing with the premise that the forum needs sub-fora but childishly keeping the superthreads idea in the sub forum.

All the talk above of ruining the forum as an excuse for not creating club sub forums all of a sudden doesn't hold if you just move the superthreads to a subforum? How so?

mike65

Frisbee wrote: »

Club specific sub-forums would kill the soccer forum imo.

The community would be broken down into 7 or 8 smaller communities and the soccer forum itself would slowly die as it sees less and less traffic as people would only be going to their own sub-forum.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

The forum has simply changed too much, the super threads and their associated communities dominate everything these days. When you think about it sub forums for the active niche's might drive new life into the main soccer forum, a spring cleaning so to speak to give it a new meaning and attraction.

I go with leninbenjamins view, I don't see why the forum should die on its arse, rather some space should open up but I listed all this crap in the Liverpool forum request and I'm not sure it got much traction.

Premier League games
League Cup games
FA Cup games
Europa League games
Champions League games
Africa Cup games
World Cup games
Football finances fallout
Referees and related
General Premier League chit chat
Championship and lower league affairs
Scottish Football
League of Ireland football
Serie A games
La Liga games
etc.

And if by chance it did mean the forum was a bit quieter than it is now for a while (until people figured out how to use the space), would that be a bad thing in itself?

SantryRed

The forum would be constantly quieter though. Why have sub forums? What's the point? It completely takes away the difference in this boards from other football ones. If you want to just talk Liverpool with just Liverpool fans then go find a Liverpool forum.

Xavi6

Excellent post Lloyd. Agree with everything said.

SantryRed wrote: »

If you want to just talk Liverpool with just Liverpool fans then go find a Liverpool forum.

And that's it in a nutshell really.