Seperate Club Forums

Dont be at yourself

astrofool wrote: »

Dont: Create team specific sub forums, we'd have Man Utd and Liverpool hug fests and lots of empty other forums.

Do: Subdivide the soccer forum in another way (and not putting the ridiculous "superthreads" into their own forum).

Do: Delete the Spurs forum, as it has had the exact effect the admins didn't want to have by drawing the Spurs fans away from the Soccer forum, you can't have it both ways.

Don't: Delete threads asking why Spurs get their own forum because the admins can't answer it reasonably.

Do: Let the mods who say they'll walk if things change, walk, mods are replaceable, and walking away from an online forum is for babies, and babies shouldn't be in charge of the pre-teens in the soccer forum.

I would say that's a good solution.

Spiritoftheseventies

astrofool wrote: »

Dont: Create team specific sub forums, we'd have Man Utd and Liverpool hug fests and lots of empty other forums.

Do: Subdivide the soccer forum in another way (and not putting the ridiculous "superthreads" into their own forum).

Do: Delete the Spurs forum, as it has had the exact effect the admins didn't want to have by drawing the Spurs fans away from the Soccer forum, you can't have it both ways.

Don't: Delete threads asking why Spurs get their own forum because the admins can't answer it reasonably.

Do: Let the mods who say they'll walk if things change, walk, mods are replaceable, and walking away from an online forum is for babies, and babies shouldn't be in charge of the pre-teens in the soccer forum.

I would think it would be a shame if some soccer mods walked because some of them give a lot of time here to these forums. But don't think it should be an over riding factor re the shape of the forums on here.

pickarooney

Dub13 wrote: »

I understand there are problem's with the super threads,sure I suggested a sub forum for them.

And an inspired suggestion it was, too.

How about a World Football forum, directly underneath Soccer (and not under Soccer/Soccer - I still can't get my head around the technical necessity to have Soccer and Television as sub-forums of themselves).

This would leave everyone that's used to the current set-up with what they have and offer an outlet to posters who want to talk about anything but the superthreads. I'm sure there are at least a few posters who don't support any of the big Premiership clubs to the exclusion of all else.

Dub13

Some people are making out that myself and Xavi6 are behaving childish saying we would walk away.I was responding to someone saying they would like the current mods to stay on if this proposal goes ahead.

We were just pointing out that its not something we would be interested in doing,this is not a ultimatum or a ploy to block the admins from proceeding if they decide to go down this road.

pickarooney wrote: »

And an inspired suggestion it was, too.

How about a World Football forum, directly underneath Soccer (and not under Soccer/Soccer - I still can't get my head around the technical necessity to have Soccer and Television as sub-forums of themselves).

This would leave everyone that's used to the current set-up with what they have and offer an outlet to posters who want to talk about anything but the superthreads. I'm sure there are at least a few posters who don't support any of the big Premiership clubs to the exclusion of all else.

Maybe the forum has outgrown the one forum fits all approach we have had for years and proposal's like this one may have merit.I think this will need to be discussed in our annual end of season review of the forum.

Spiritoftheseventies

Dub13 wrote: »

Some people are making out that myself and Xavi6 are behaving childish saying we would walk away.I was responding to someone saying they would like the current mods to stay on if this proposal goes ahead.

We were just pointing out that its not something we would be interested in doing,this is not a ultimatum or a ploy to block the admins from proceeding if they decide to go down this road.



Maybe the forum has outgrown the one forum fits all approach we have had for years and proposal's like this one may have merit.I think this will need to be discussed in our annual end of season review of the forum.

Shame I wont be around for that :rolleyes:

Jazzy

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Shame I wont be around for that :rolleyes:

ill say this once loud and clear so you understand and will stop bleating on in every forum and every thread:

WE DON'T CARE

---

astrofool wrote:

Dont: Create team specific sub forums, we'd have Man Utd and Liverpool hug fests and lots of empty other forums.

Do: Subdivide the soccer forum in another way (and not putting the ridiculous "superthreads" into their own forum).

Do: Delete the Spurs forum, as it has had the exact effect the admins didn't want to have by drawing the Spurs fans away from the Soccer forum, you can't have it both ways.

Don't: Delete threads asking why Spurs get their own forum because the admins can't answer it reasonably.

Do: Let the mods who say they'll walk if things change, walk, mods are replaceable, and walking away from an online forum is for babies, and babies shouldn't be in charge of the pre-teens in the soccer forum.

pretty much everything there is bang right. a subdivide is going to be required and as long as its not team specific, im ok with that. the spurs forum is probably beyond the stage where it can be effectively killed and some of its members such as Keane=Cock won't be best pleased their little space on the web is gone. lesson is, don't make forums just cos your mates want them lads & ladies

putting the threads in their own forum isnt that good an idea. tbh, it would be kinda weird. the only reason i can think of is that it would be less work for the mods, but frankly, i don't give a crap how much work mods have to do they signed up for it so if it conveniences them to the detriment of the forum id be totally against that. nice ways of splitting it might be to just leave the soccer forum the way it is and then create a "Premier League" forum. a simple, to the point subdivide that won't see much trafiic diminish from the main soccer forum

Gone West

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

and Mustard

Mustard was set up by an admin, there was no request for it.

I've a feeling that it was an experiment by ecksor to see if setting up a forum on an esoteric subject would in itself stimulate discussion on said obscure subject. Which it did. So I'd say it was a success, if indeed that was the original intent.:pac:

eZe^

Alright, I only read the first 50 or so posts in this thread as I'm feeling a little lazy today, so apologies for repeating points that were no doubt mentioned already. I for one am 100% opposed to creating team specific fora. As has been mentioned, one of the best things about this soccer forum is that the presence of different supporters in the same place means that not only do you learn more about other teams history, players, managers, your views actually get challenged. It leads to interesting debate.

I support F.C Barcelona, I've been on many English speaking Barca message boards, and it's the same thing everywhere you go - 'Omg R10 totally just owned Sergio Ramos.... Lolzzzzzz, Barca foreverz, Real Madrid are the worstttttt'. It is just a breathing ground for fan boys, and before I became active in the soccer forum, I ALWAYS found the best Barca message boards were the ones where there was a significant presence from Real Madrid supporters.

They (opposition supporters) actually called you out on your bulls*t if you started a lovefest. It actually cultivated a need for constructive debate among it's users. However, the amount of times fans would say 'Why are you even on a Barca forum, you don't even support them' was crazy, and I guarantee you if you create team specific fora then this air of proprietary would be strong amongst each supporters group. Even now you see some Liverpool supporters telling opposition fans to 'get out of their thread'.

There may be a some strength in the fact that team specific fora would lead to less bannings, as a result of the significant decrease in any interaction between opposition fans. And yes, you might get an increase in traffic, but the content and entire point of the soccer forum would be lost. I personally think that it would kill what's different about this soccer forum. I can go to redcafe (or Dunphy ) to hear how Rooney is better than Maradona, I can go to barcaforum to hear how Puyol is better than Maldini, but here is the only place where you're regularly challenged for having such fanboy opinions, and I think that's great.

If it wasn't for this current incarnation of the soccer forum, I would know so little about the history and stature of the EPL and it's teams, the fan's views on the financial detriment of many of the clubs, and I would never have felt how frustrating it is to argue with a Chelsea supporter about how much better F.C Barcelona is . Seriously though, as sh*t as it is to see most debates on the soccer forum degenerate into Liverpool vs Manchester United slag fests, moderating fanboy fanatical statements would be much worse, imo. I would most certainly step down as a moderator on the forum if team specific fora came in place. (not meant to be a threat, it's just the soccer forum would become absolutely pointless from then on)



Edit - My main purpose on the soccer forum would become essentially obsolete, La Liga threads rarely get traffic as it is, putting them in the doldrums of their own forum would kill them off completely. This isn't to say I'm against change though, I would have no problem discussing the merits of creating sub fora from a different approach. These kind of debates will always spring good ideas.

Spiritoftheseventies

eZe^ wrote: »

and I guarantee you if you create team specific fora then this air of proprietary would be strong amongst each supporters group. Even now you see some Liverpool supporters telling opposition fans to 'get out of their thread'.

This has happened because posters were continually making the same point and only concentrating on the negative

moderating fanboy fanatical statements would be much worse, imo. I would most certainly step down as a moderator on the forum if team specific fora came in place. (not meant to be a threat, it's just the soccer forum would become absolutely pointless from then on)

This is jumping the gun totally. Are you saying that people who post on Irishkop are unmoderable. Its a ridiculous claim.
I would dearly love to be able to post here on a forum where other fans from other clubs could contribute to another site without being told that A is a waste of money and so on.
Again Eze its about improving the life for a poster but you have shifted the emphasis on how bias some posters are. I have been accused of it time and time again but if mods took time to look at our forums you would see we dont always agree with Rafa, we dont think Stevie Gerrard is infallable. But nothing is ever said about those who go on and on about his star fish antics as if that was all there was to him.

ShiverinEskimo

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I have been accused of it time and time again but if mods took time to look at our forums you would see we dont always agree with Rafa, we dont think Stevie Gerrard is infallable.

No one is saying you don't, it's certain fans' intolerance of other, oppostion fans saying things against Rafa and Starfish that create the territorial atmosphere that already exists in the superthreads (some moreso than others). Create seperate forums and that atmosphere will be multiplied.

Spiritoftheseventies

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

No one is saying you don't, it's certain fans' intolerance of other, oppostion fans saying things against Rafa and Starfish that create the territorial atmosphere that already exists in the superthreads (some moreso than others). Create seperate forums and that atmosphere will be multiplied.

To be clear about something here. Would love to be in the situation where we could all post in harmony. But I think people post on club forums on other websites to get away from some of the stuff that happens here. There is a great community spirit overall on boards.ie but at same time there is an awful lot of stuff that goes on thats gets in the way in terms of thread progressions. As another poster said the soccer boards are tribal by nature but I think it can be a bit too tribal at times.

eZe^

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

This is jumping the gun totally. Are you saying that people who post on Irishkop are unmoderable. Its a ridiculous claim.

Where did I say you wouldn't be able to moderate it mate? Those kinds of forums are 100% team specific, so the moderators there support Liverpool, and thus obviously won't be irked when there is very biased 'lovefest'. Which is fine, I'm just saying I don't think I'd enjoy moderating a sub forum where it's posters are just ranting and raving about how perfect their team can be when they win a game. This is all my opinion mate, I don't think I'd be cut out for that form of moderation, but I've no doubt there are plenty of moderators out there who could.

ShiverinEskimo

The soccer forum should remain in its current form with maybe an advertisement at the top advising people to be more liberal with their ignore button. Specifically those people who flip the lid at the slightest bit of cheeky banter.

_blank_

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

This has happened because posters were continually making the same point and only concentrating on the negative.

Which is in stark contrast to the likes of RAWK, redcafe, barcaforum and even ShelsWeb where there are lovefests and circle jerks, opposition fans are run out of the place for daring to question anything about ClubX in their own forum that it becomes pointless to even go to them forums with a view that doesn't toe the line. I've lost count of the times I've seen people to "eff off cnt" when people don't take the forum party line in these club specific forums which are littered all over the internet.

I do not understand football fans who can't see the other side of arguments, or worse, don't want to hear any negative comments about "their" club, and instead want to partake in "debates" where everyone agrees, says positive things, and woe betide you if you have anything negative to say.

I certainly don't understand people on Boards.ie who have built up their fifty posts, presumably because they have been reading the soccer forum, and like what they see so much that they go to the trouble of sticking around for the time it takes to become eligible, and also post the required amount of times. Only to appear and start whinging about "opposition" supporters posting in "their club" thread.

Boards.ie is a melting pot, always has been. Other soccer forums that allow discussion on any and all teams/topics are badly run and full of dickheads (F365 for example).

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

This is jumping the gun totally. Are you saying that people who post on Irishkop are unmoderable. Its a ridiculous claim. .

No-one is claiming that, but team specific forums are a different animal completely.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I would dearly love to be able to post here on a forum where other fans from other clubs could contribute to another site without being told that A is a waste of money and so on.

Ding-ding-ding.

You don't want to hear that the player on your team is a waste of money. Why not?

Are people not entitled to a view? Do you want a forum where nobody says anything negative about your club? It's called RAWK or redcafe or whatever. It already exists, ad nauseum, all over the internet.

Why do you want it duplicated on Boards?

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Again Eze its about improving the life for a poster but you have shifted the emphasis on how bias some posters are. I have been accused of it time and time again but if mods took time to look at our forums you would see we dont always agree with Rafa, we dont think Stevie Gerrard is infallable. But nothing is ever said about those who go on and on about his star fish antics as if that was all there was to him.

All of this is true, and yes, it can get annoying. But so what. You don't HAVE to reply, hell, you don't even have to read those posts. They come from a few well known posters usually, you can ignore them. You don't have to click that reply button.

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

Which is in stark contrast to the likes of RAWK, redcafe, barcaforum and even ShelsWeb where there are lovefests and circle jerks, opposition fans are run out of the place for daring to question anything about ClubX in their own forum that it becomes pointless to even go to them forums with a view that doesn't toe the line. I've lost count of the times I've seen people to "eff off cnt" when people don't take the forum party line in these club specific forums which are littered all over the internet.

I do not understand football fans who can't see the other side of arguments, or worse, don't want to hear any negative comments about "their" club, and instead want to partake in "debates" where everyone agrees, says positive things, and woe betide you if you have anything negative to say.

I certainly don't understand people on Boards.ie who have built up their fifty posts, presumably because they have been reading the soccer forum, and like what they see so much that they go to the trouble of sticking around for the time it takes to become eligible, and also post the required amount of times. Only to appear and start whinging about "opposition" supporters posting in "their club" thread.

Boards.ie is a melting pot, always has been. Other soccer forums that allow discussion on any and all teams/topics are badly run and full of dickheads (F365 for example).




No-one is claiming that, but team specific forums are a different animal completely.


Ding-ding-ding.

You don't want to hear that the player on your team is a waste of money. Why not?

Are people not entitled to a view? Do you want a forum where nobody says anything negative about your club? It's called RAWK or redcafe or whatever. It already exists, ad nauseum, all over the internet.

Why do you want it duplicated on Boards?



All of this is true, and yes, it can get annoying. But so what. You don't HAVE to reply, hell, you don't even have to read those posts. They come from a few well known posters usually, you can ignore them. You don't have to click that reply button.

Hear what you are saying Des but really I dont see why some posters have to continually say the same thing about an opposition club. There is criticism and constructive criticism. And one or two posters continually zone in on the negative. Again I think the sub forums is needed in order to de flag some threads. I seriously believe for some when they see a club thread or poster flagged on main page its akin to waving a red flag in front of them. They feel the need to step in.
One thing i dont do is watch out for a flagged thread. Subforum im convinced will sort that out. Out of sight of mind.

Spud83

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Subforum im convinced will sort that out. Out of sight of mind.

So what your saying is sub forums will lead to less posters taking an interest and posting in opposition team threads?

_blank_

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

And one or two posters continually zone in on the negative.

If you know who they are, and don't like that aspect of their posting then

Spiritoftheseventies

I think so. Im all for opposition posters positng on match threads during the game but just think it is difficult to argue with a lot of stuff that goes on in the superthreads because we go round and round in circles a lot of the time.
But again my main argument for introducing seperate club forums is that you can debate seprerate topics related to that club. The structure would be better. Thats what i would like to happen but its a collective decision at the end of the day.

Spud83

Ok, and thats fair enough if thats what you want, but what you are being told is

1) its not what the majority of posters want there was a vote on it before

2) its not what the majority of the soccer mods want seeing as we have most saying that they would have no interest in the forum if it happened. Note I said no interest in the forum not just being a mod of it.

3) there are plenty of other forums that provide the structure you are looking for.

The Recliner

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Hear what you are saying Des but really I dont see why some posters have to continually say the same thing about an opposition club. There is criticism and constructive criticism. And one or two posters continually zone in on the negative. Again I think the sub forums is needed in order to de flag some threads.

They do it because they enjoy winding up the opposition, the best way to stop this is for people to ignore them and stop replying when they are fishing.

When they ahve a valid point to make then reply away but ignore the obvious trolling

Some opposition supporters make very valid points and their input should be welcome

I seriously believe for some when they see a club thread or poster flagged on main page its akin to waving a red flag in front of them. They feel the need to step in.
One thing i dont do is watch out for a flagged thread. Subforum im convinced will sort that out. Out of sight of mind.

It wont stop that sort of thing at all. people do it because they enjoy it, moving the threads wont stop that, they will seek it out

My support for the sub forum would be to tidy up the super threads from the main forum but I am not to pushed really

Frisbee

SOS tbh what your looking for is a Liverpool fan site by the sounds of things.

There's plenty of those on the net already without turning the Soccer Forum into another one.

Spiritoftheseventies

I still believe the super threads lack structure. And what annoys me that even when you try to discuss something on it you are sometimes told to debate it somewhere else on a thread that is for most part a zombie thread. How many liverpool threads are gathering dust. They are for the most inaccessible because most posters probably have forgotten about or dont even know they exist.

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I still believe the super threads lack structure. And what annoys me that even when you try to discuss something on it you are sometimes told to debate it somewhere else on a thread that is for most part a zombie thread. How many liverpool threads are gathering dust. They are for the most inaccessible because most posters probably have forgotten about or dont even know they exist.

If you have a Pool forum there will be threads started about every little thing. Topics that in no way deserve a thread of their own.

Decent threads will still fall down the pages and you'll have to use the search function anyway.

Spiritoftheseventies

Frisbee wrote: »

If you have a Pool forum there will be threads started about every little thing. Topics that in no way deserve a thread of their own.

Decent threads will still fall down the pages and you'll have to use the search function anyway.

If they work on other websites why cant they work here. Are there enough mods to mod them. Why not put a cap on threads. Or appoint mods within pool forum on an invite basis (mods invite a poster who they think would be able to do it, and i'm not looking for post either).

The Muppet

This subject raises it's head every so often. Personally I'm against individual club forums for a number of reason. Boards soccer is pretty unique in that it has a nice mixture of users and you get a good bit of lively debate. True some people can't handle criticism of their clubs but thats their probelm really. People like that are catered for on a plethora of dedicated fan sites.

If Club forums are to be generated on Boards I would still like to have a general topics forums akin to what we have now, that way everyone could be facilitated.

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

If they work on other websites why cant they work here. Are there enough mods to mod them. Why not put a cap on threads. Or appoint mods within pool forum on an invite basis (mods invite a poster who they think would be able to do it, and i'm not looking for post either).

Because the boards soccer forum is unique.

If you want the experience you get on those other sites why don't you post there as well as on the boards Soccer Forum, then you get the best of both worlds.

pickarooney

How about, to tidy up the forum without segregating it, we make subforums into which we throw threads relating to a randomly drawn set of clubs. E.g. subforum A has Liverpool, Man City, Inter Milan and Rangers, subforum B has Everton, Celtic, Barcelona and Ajax...

Spud83

pickarooney wrote: »

How about, to tidy up the forum without segregating it, we make subforums into which we throw threads relating to a randomly drawn set of clubs. E.g. subforum A has Liverpool, Man City, Inter Milan and Rangers, subforum B has Everton, Celtic, Barcelona and Ajax...

LOL, the champions league of forums. I like it..........

....not really.

Frisbee

pickarooney wrote: »

How about, to tidy up the forum without segregating it, we make subforums into which we throw threads relating to a randomly drawn set of clubs. E.g. subforum A has Liverpool, Man City, Inter Milan and Rangers, subforum B has Everton, Celtic, Barcelona and Ajax...

Then all your doing is compartmentalising this so called 'problem', not fixing it.

The reason the SF on boards is so popular is because it's not a fanboy circle jerk about: "Rooney iz t best aight!!!1!1" or "Stevie G pwns all udr midfielders".

There is reasoned debate the majority of the time and anyone acting the prat tends to be swiftly dealt with by the Mods. Most of the time if people just reported a post instead of insisting on getting their say in to someone who is obviously on a wind up everything would be much cleaner.

Even with the Superthreads we see posters telling other posters to get out of the thread as they don't support that particular team.

Having separate forums for this is going to cause the problem to propagate tenfold as the feeling of tribalism will be come strong enough over time that fans will call trolling on anyone from another team posting in their forum.

pickarooney

I should probably clarify that I was making a joke.

My honest opinion is that as it stands it's very difficult to discuss anything to do with a big club as the superthreads are unnavigable and it's hard to discuss anything not to do with a big club as the superthreads drown the first pages of the forum.