Seperate Club Forums

The Muppet

Frisbee wrote: »

Put it this way.

Can anyone name another Soccer Forum/Board they post on that is better and as evenly balanced (fan wise) than the Boards.ie Soccer Forum?

I can't.

Jazzy

The Muppet wrote: »

EHH where did I admit to anything of the sort?

I don't troll jazzy, ie post just to provoke a reaction. I'm not stupid, I know some of my posts do provoke a reaction from the over sensitive types like yer good self but tbh thats your problem not mine.

Would continually posting "DERP" as a reply to another posters contributions be considered as trolling I wonder? I never do anything as childish as that.

There are Liverpool supporters that don't take any offence from my posts, in fact some voted for me in the end of year awards.

This isn't about us so let's leave the personalites out of it and not derail this thread, we are all entitled to voice our opinions here.

simply put, i dont believe you. i see what and how you post every other day and you do post just to provoke a reaction. when you are called on it you resort to the typical defence mechanisms - "oh here lets get back on topic with this random inane tidbit", "im not trolling you're just over sensitive", and of course, spamming randomly in the hopes a mod will come in and go "no more of that, lets get the thread on topic, next to post like that will get a ban". you enjoy, you like it and you get a rise out of it. who voted for you in what is completely irrelevant and just goes further to prove my point as you are trying to bring up some random fact to make yourself appear as if you are something you arent.

how you admitted it, was as you said, you will still be there with a little wink.. as if to say "hahaha, doesnt matter ill be around to grate on you and annoy you even if every other man utd fan is gone from the forum". basically, you have found through the boards.ie soccer section a way to p1ss off liverpool fans without having to go to a liverpool specific forum on the net as you will immediatly be kicked out of one of them. its incredibly easy to bend the rules on this site as regards trolling and that is essentially why there is this thread and why there is this talk of splitting the forum. if it wasnt for the trolls, all would be well. if you don't get the irony of derp then that isnt my problem btw

flahavaj

Jazzy wrote: »

this is the underlying problem of the soccer forum - useless crap trolls. if the mods had the balls to come down hard on the select few i think they will find the new users will stop following the examples set and there will be less trolling in general. this would mean that the forum could stay in the exact same structure with less of the problems being brought up here. its as simple as that

100% agreed. If the soccer forums dealt with trolls in the swift and decisive way the PW forum mods dealt with your little stint on that particular forum we'd all be much better off.:)

K-9

OK, thing is these forums are still going to be on boards.ie, soccer forum, so the Muppet or whoever people object to are still going to be here.

The Muppet, whether you consider him a troll or not, is still going to be on boards.ie, separate threads or not!

Zaph

OK guys, less of the personal digs and back to the topic at hand please.

K-9

Zaph wrote: »

OK guys, less of the personal digs and back to the topic at hand please.

Just because we have separate forums on boards for Pool, Man U etc. does not mean the perceived problems on here are going to disappear.

Its still boards.ie, not a team fan forum.

The problem isn't separate club forums, its moderation of the forum we have!

Now, personally, the forum has been grand lately. Yes the pool thread was derailed a bit yesterday, but overall, it hasn't been bad over the last couple of months. I don't expect perfection.

K-9

Anyway, the above post wasn't a dig at the moderators, btw. Things seem to be going ok at the minute, maybe people are seeking out problems?

Zaph

K-9 wrote: »

The problem isn't separate club forums, its moderation of the forum we have!

And if that's your opinion, that's fair enough. However I was more concerned with the way the few posts immediately before your previous post had become more personal in nature and that's what I was asking to be stopped.

Jazzy

Zaph wrote: »

And if that's your opinion, that's fair enough. However I was more concerned with the way the few posts immediately before your previous post had become more personal in nature and that's what I was asking to be stopped.

well, regardless of the personal nature the point still stands. if there was less trolls, there would be less problems and less of a need to split the forum. new posters come in, see an older poster trolling, think its hunky dory and troll away in the same style. there is always a 'new' troll in soccer, someone that doesnt really understand and they bait all night and day and then maybe get a ban or something. the older trolls know how to say things that wont get them banned but will rile up opposition fans. im not talking specifically about utd/liverpool fans either here, there are plenty of examples of other trolls who dont support those teams.

heck, one of the regular posters there even offered up a list to ppl of which guys to put on ignore so that you could enjoy the forum better. it goes on all the time and until that is sorted, splitting the forum is gonna just cause more problems

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

if you don't get the irony of derp then that isnt my problem btw

So if you get it it's not trolling, that's an interesting defence.


I do agree with you that splitting the forum is not the answer to the percieved problems.

Jazzy wrote: »

heck, one of the regular posters there even offered up a list to ppl of which guys to put on ignore so that you could enjoy the forum better.

Such a list is a silly notion tbh. Everyones list would be different, I'd wager most of the users on soccer would make someones list such is the nature of the topic. What you're looking for is a love in where nobody is critical of anything or anyone else and everyone gets on like a house on fire, thankfully life's not like that so I fail to see why anyone can expect an internet forum to be such a eutopia.

Peoples opinions differ, some people grate on others, it's real life, once it's kept civil which is what the mods do on soccer it's all pretty natural tbh.

Spiritoftheseventies

Jazzy wrote: »

heck, one of the regular posters there even offered up a list to ppl of which guys to put on ignore so that you could enjoy the forum better. it goes on all the time and until that is sorted, splitting the forum is gonna just cause more problems

Jazzy That would never work. Thats gang mentality. One poster can have a beef with a group of posters but absolutely no way should that list be posted to anyone else under any circumstances. What it will do will isolate the poster completely and thats just not fair.

I dont think there is a way round it that this stage. If enough folks want seperate forum fair enough. But what we should be concentrating on now is more moderation on particular threads. I have spent enough time on Pool thread to realize that it occassionally gets derailed.
There were some excellent debates there this year particularly on the SOS and ownership problems. But its needs a new injection of life IMO.

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

Do: Let the mods who say they'll walk if things change, walk, mods are replaceable, and walking away from an online forum is for babies, and babies shouldn't be in charge of the pre-teens in the soccer forum.

Have you actual read the reasons why we would walk away? Just in case you or anyone else isn't aware, I'll my own reasons.

I mod Soccer because I like it in its current form. It is imo the best forum around for general football discussion and I'm proud to take a hands on role in it.

However if it is subdivided into different parts then that is simply not what I signed on for or have an interest in. Why would I want to moderate a United or Liverpool forum? I find their superthreads a pain in the arse to read as it is so a whole forum is, for me, the worst thing imaginable in terms of modding.

Also, I deal with enough accusations of bias as it is in terms of infractions/bans I issue. That would increase tenfold if I was moderating solely a United/Pool or whoever forum.

And all of that is even before you have to deal with wading through pages and pages of "Gerrard iz da best" or "Lulz at Rafa" comments.

So if the forum goes down the road of subforums then I will be stepping aside, not because I'm a baby and have toys I wish to throw out of a pram, but simply because that sort of structure holds zero interest for me.

Jazzy

i didnt ask for the list and cba with it either. been here 5 1/2 years and ive never put anyone on ignore or reported any posts and im not about to start. the reason i said that one was offered up was to make a point that yes, there are regular trolls that all sets of fans are aware of, and then if they are aware of to the public of the soccer forum, then why dont the mods just hammer down on them to stop them trolling? the cycle will continue unless all the old school trolls are stopped.

The_Muppet wrote:

So if you get it it's not trolling, that's an interesting defence.

no, what im saying is if you dont get the implication you are not qualified to call it anything as you dont know what it is.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

Have you actual read the reasons why we would walk away? Just in case you or anyone else isn't aware, I'll my own reasons.

I mod Soccer because I like it in its current form. It is imo the best forum around for general football discussion and I'm proud to take a hands on role in it.

However if it is subdivided into different parts then that is simply not what I signed on for or have an interest in. Why would I want to moderate a United or Liverpool forum? I find their superthreads a pain in the arse to read as it is so a whole forum is, for me, the worst thing imaginable in terms of modding.

Also, I deal with enough accusations of bias as it is in terms of infractions/bans I issue. That would increase tenfold if I was moderating solely a United/Pool or whoever forum.

And all of that is even before you have to deal with wading through pages and pages of "Gerrard iz da best" or "Lulz at Rafa" comments.

So if the forum goes down the road of subforums then I will be stepping aside, not because I'm a baby and have toys I wish to throw out of a pram, but simply because that sort of structure holds zero interest for me.

Xavi you are mis representing our thread here. No one has said Gerrard is the best. You continually throw out this bias line which is extremely unfair. We are passionate about our football here and speaking personally thread stands a better chance if it gets its own forum. If you dont want to mod it fair enough but Im sure we can find someone who is willing to do it. But dont think any mod should be allowed to put up this line about "I will walk if sub forums are introduced". Subforums have worked on other websites and they have worked well because the people who post on them watch their team week in week out. Its when certain non club posters claim to know everything about their rival clubs that the trouble starts.
Yes the benefit of this site is that we have six or seven club forums rolled into it. It has many benefits but it also has the odd drawbacks. Forum needs a bit of fine tuning thats all.

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Xavi you are mis representing our thread here. No one has said Gerrard is the best. You continually throw out this bias line which is extremely unfair. We are passionate about our football here and speaking personally thread stands a better chance if it gets its own forum.

Why is it unfair? It's true, and there are examples of it on a very frequent basis.

IMO you have your head in the sand.

If you dont want to mod it fair enough but Im sure we can find someone who is willing to do it. But dont think any mod should be allowed to put up this line about "I will walk if sub forums are introduced".

"Allowed"?

So you think I should be disciplined for voicing my opinion on a forum I moderate? So what if I say I'll step down? I'm sure there are plenty who would be glad of it. I'm not issuing an ultimatum or anything of the sort.

Subforums have worked on other websites and they have worked well because the people who post on them watch their team week in week out. Its when certain non club posters claim to know everything about their rival clubs that the trouble starts.

No problems arise when the fans of that club get territorial and won't listen to an outside opinion even if it makes perfect sense.

Even you can't deny that this happens in the current format and would happen on a grander scale in subforums where the territory is even more profound.

Yes the benefit of this site is that we have six or seven club forums rolled into it. It has many benefits but it also has the odd drawbacks.

So the odd drawback is enough for an overhaul?

Forum needs a bit of fine tuning thats all.

Yes - fine tuning.

Not a complete overhaul which is the drum you are banging.

The Recliner

Jazzy wrote: »

i didnt ask for the list and cba with it either. been here 5 1/2 years and ive never put anyone on ignore or reported any posts and im not about to start. the reason i said that one was offered up was to make a point that yes, there are regular trolls that all sets of fans are aware of, and then if they are aware of to the public of the soccer forum, then why dont the mods just hammer down on them to stop them trolling? the cycle will continue unless all the old school trolls are stopped.

Reporting posts is one way to make the Mods aware of who and what is happening in the forum

They don't read the threads all the time and reporting posts helps make them aware of issues

If you don't report posts then you really can't be giving out about problems in the forum as you ahve done nothing to help resolve it

Spud83

Jazzy wrote: »

i didnt ask for the list and cba with it either. been here 5 1/2 years and ive never put anyone on ignore or reported any posts and im not about to start. the reason i said that one was offered up was to make a point that yes, there are regular trolls that all sets of fans are aware of, and then if they are aware of to the public of the soccer forum, then why dont the mods just hammer down on them to stop them trolling? the cycle will continue unless all the old school trolls are stopped.

Sorry but your opinion is null and void to me anyway. How can you complain about trolls, and complain about the mods doing nothing about them, yet never report them. Makes no sense.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Subforums have worked on other websites and they have worked well because the people who post on them watch their team week in week out. Its when certain non club posters claim to know everything about their rival clubs that the trouble starts.

Again because they work on other sites is not a good argument. Boards is good because of its uniqueness.

What attracted to you to the boards soccer forum?

Why not use one of the other multiple forums that are club specific?

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Yes the benefit of this site is that we have six or seven club forums rolled into it. It has many benefits but it also has the odd drawbacks. Forum needs a bit of fine tuning thats all.

Benefits far outweigh the draw backs IMO.

pickarooney

Frisbee wrote: »

Put it this way.

Can anyone name another Soccer Forum/Board they post on that is better and as evenly balanced (fan wise) than the Boards.ie Soccer Forum?

Evenly balanced? I'd hazard a guess that Manchester United and Liverpool fans account for over 40% of posters.

I used to post on a football forum that had a huge membership of fans of clubs from all over the world. There were individual club forums, forums for specific leagues, several general football forums and a number of non-football forums. It was great for about 5 years until they sold it and it went to ****.

So, no, I can't at the minute, but I'm sure the former members have gone somewhere else.

Spiritoftheseventies

Not asking for a complete overhaul xavi. Asking for someone to look at the situation. Im not getting territorial but are you telling me when one non club fan posts almost as much in a rival thread there isnt a problem.
What is happening here is that posters are continually having to explain their position. Not about territorial xavi its about a lot of thread space being taken up on stuff that shouldnt be.
But I have to ask this. Is every thread of that page being read by the mods. It hasnt a mod warning since god knows long and i think there are cases where there should have been some mod input.

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

i didnt ask for the list and cba with it either. been here 5 1/2 years and ive never put anyone on ignore or reported any posts and im not about to start. the reason i said that one was offered up was to make a point that yes, there are regular trolls that all sets of fans are aware of, and then if they are aware of to the public of the soccer forum, then why dont the mods just hammer down on them to stop them trolling? the cycle will continue unless all the old school trolls are stopped.



no, what im saying is if you dont get the implication you are not qualified to call it anything as you dont know what it is.

So who defines who's actaully trolling and who is just expressing their opinion in a forthright manner, or being ironic. For instance both of us deny we troll, yet you say I do , I say you have and given an example. How do the mod's deal with that fairly?

As for not reporting posts , you have liitle right to complain about existing procedures if you haven't used them to see how effective/ineffective they are.

I would also remind people looking for change in the modding of the forum that in the poll held just before christmas re the modding of soccer very few users wanted it to get stricter , of the users that voted 80% were happy with it as it is or wanted it relaxed which it was with the revoking of the red and yellow cards. Everyone's enitled to have their say and be listened to but the minority should not have their will forced on the majority imo.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055732327

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

But I have to ask this. Is every thread of that page being read by the mods. It hasnt a mod warning since god knows long and i think there are cases where there should have been some mod input.

I can only speak for myself and say no, I haven't read every thread. I have better things to be doing.

Can I ask you - did you report any posts in these cases or PM one of the mods with your concerns? A simple yes/no will suffice.

Spiritoftheseventies

You are asking me the question you already know the answer to. It doesnt require a response.

Jazzy

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Sorry but your opinion is null and void to me anyway. How can you complain about trolls, and complain about the mods doing nothing about them, yet never report them. Makes no sense.

ever think that i reckon the mods know anyway? the mods are (mostly) long term posters on the forum, they know who the trolls are. reporting posts by them is p1ssing in the wind and a lot of the time it won't matter anyway as the trolls can very easily get around it on soccer so why bother reporting it? if they havent been dealt with by this stage then they probably wont ever be dealt with and the same amount of dribblers will come on and copy them like a monkey. until the mods balls up and just ban certain posters from certain threads and come down hard on the main culprits then all this and this big thread on it is a waste of atoms. but thats unlikely to happen so we are probably going to get some sort of disjointed weird forum in the future which will have the same trolls and the same problems. if only the newbies could emulate the likes of PHB, Lloyd, redspider et al instead of the ppl in it to get as many digs in at rival teams as they can and rack up invisible points on some sort of make believe leaderboard in their head then we would all be happier

ShiverinEskimo

Xavi6 wrote: »

A simple yes/no will suffice.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

You are asking me the question you already know the answer to. It doesnt require a response.

:rolleyes:

Xavi6 wrote: »

I have better things to do

QFT

Frisbee

pickarooney wrote: »

Evenly balanced? I'd hazard a guess that Manchester United and Liverpool fans account for over 40% of posters.

That's a lot better than the 100% of Pool on IrishKop or 100% Citeh on Blue Moon. At least with our SF you will always have someone to disagree with you and have a debate with as opposed to having one thread creaming ourselves about Gerrard/Fabregas/Rooney/Essein etc.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Im not getting territorial but are you telling me when one non club fan posts almost as much in a rival thread there isnt a problem.

Why is that a problem? Because someone might disagree with you?

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

It hasnt a mod warning since god knows long and i think there are cases where there should have been some mod input.

Then report the post!

Spiritoftheseventies

Frisbee wrote: »

That's a lot better than the 100% of Pool on IrishKop or 100% Citeh on Blue Moon. At least with our SF you will always have someone to disagree with you and have a debate with as opposed to having one thread creaming ourselves about Gerrard/Fabregas/Rooney/Essein etc.



Why is that a problem? Because someone might disagree with you?



Then report the post!

Okay Frisbee you are a gunners fan. What if i was to continually go on about your problems in defence. It would grate after awhile.
The amount of attention we get from non club posters is quite high compared to other threads.
Compare this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2055637826
with this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2055637824
And it impacts on quality of the thread IMO. One mod has already stated that in a roundabout way.
What a subforum does it at least put some stucture into the debate. Its just too messy at the moment.
As for reporting posts you need a good enough reason. The onus as such on the poster. And nine times out of ten they are let go.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

I find their superthreads a pain in the arse to read as it is

Do you have any ideas as to how they could be less of a pain in the arse?

The Recliner wrote: »

Reporting posts is one way to make the Mods aware of who and what is happening in the forum

They don't read the threads all the time and reporting posts helps make them aware of issues

If you don't report posts then you really can't be giving out about problems in the forum as you ahve done nothing to help resolve it

I have no time for idiots who complain about trolling, but who refuse to report post.

Their opinion is simply not valid. We've had this in Rugby too, and now, if someone complains about trolling and they haven't reported the post, I just ignore their whinging.

pickarooney wrote: »

Evenly balanced? I'd hazard a guess that Manchester United and Liverpool fans account for over 40% of posters.

Does that not reflect on the general population though? I think it does, in fact, I think that if you went into a room of 1000 "football supporters" in Ireland, there would be more than 40% of them either United or Liverpool fans.

I know more Arsenal fans on Boards than in real life, I know many, many more LoI fans on boards than I do in real life, I know a Pompey fan on Boards and none in real life.

The Boards.ie Soccer Forum is more evenly balanced in terms of spread of clubs fans present than any pub I've ever been in.

_blank_

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

And nine times out of ten they are let go.

That's not true at all.

As a mod I can see reported posts from any forum. Whenever a contentious issue crops up in the Soccer Forum, I nosily open the Reported Posts Forum to have a look.

I would say that 90% of reported posts ARE acted upon actually.

The Recliner

Des wrote: »

That's not true at all.

As a mod I can see reported posts from any forum. Whenever a contentious issue crops up in the Soccer Forum, I nosily open the Reported Posts Forum to have a look.

I would say that 90% of reported posts ARE acted upon actually.

And I would back Des up on this

I do the same

Sure some posts that are reported on aren't actionable but where they are they are acted on

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

That's not true at all.

As a mod I can see reported posts from any forum. Whenever a contentious issue crops up in the Soccer Forum, I nosily open the Reported Posts Forum to have a look.

I would say that 90% of reported posts ARE acted upon actually.

I still think the onus is on the poster to prove there is "mischief". The guilty party as such is innocent until proved guilty.
So if we are to stick with the status quo there needs to be a higher degree of modding IMO.
This i think is the second such thread in about six months to pop up. None of which were opened by me.
So there is a consensus starting to grow here now.
So maybe mods need to ask is why are subforums being asked for.