Seperate Club Forums

The Recliner

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I still think the onus on the poster to prove their is "mischief". The guilty party as such is innocent until proved guilty.
So if we are to stick with the status quo there needs to be a higher degree of modding.
This i think is the second such thread in about six months. None of which were opened by me.
So there is a consensus starting to grow here now.
So maybe mods need to ask is why are subforums being asked for.

I honestly don't think sub forums would solve the trolling problem, the only thing that will solve that is more people reporting posts so that action can be taken that is backed up

I really don't see a concensus, I see a small minority of posters in this thread who are in favour of this with the majority who want to keep the forum as it is

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Okay Frisbee you are a gunners fan. What if i was to continually go on about your problems in defence. It would grate after awhile.

I'd have no problem with that. Arsenal's lack of stability in defence is well known and often talked about on the SF, especially after another big team batter us. I have no problem with people going on about it as long as it leads to decent debate. When someone goes: "lulz, arsenal r d crappest at d bak" then I'll just ignore that person as it's quite clear they're not looking for bdebate.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

As for reporting posts you need a good enough reason. The onus as such on the poster. And nine times out of ten they are let go.

Hold on, your saying there's too many posts being let go. If you think a post deserves to be reported, then report it! You don't need a watertight reason to report it.

Des wrote: »

That's not true at all.

As a mod I can see reported posts from any forum. Whenever a contentious issue crops up in the Soccer Forum, I nosily open the Reported Posts Forum to have a look.

I would say that 90% of reported posts ARE acted upon actually.

+1, its a guilty pleasure

_blank_

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I still think the onus is on the poster to prove there is "mischief".

Yes indeed, the onus is on the reporting party to show that it isn't just them being a Sensitive Sarah.

I'll tell you something.

If I see a reported post from a forum I mod, and I'm in two minds about it, I'll wait to see if anyone else reports it before taking any action.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

The guilty party as such is innocent until proved guilty.

lol, that is called "natural justice". Are you suggesting that if someone reports a post, then the mod should take action, in all cases?

What if I started reporting every post you made? And the mods were required to take action on my reported posts?

Headshot

so other mods can see reported posts from the sf or any other forum(which they dont mod) , to me that is such abuse of power

_blank_

Headshot wrote: »

to me that is such abuse of power

explain why please.

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

Yes indeed, the onus is on the reporting party to show that it isn't just them being a Sensitive Sarah.

I'll tell you something.

If I see a reported post from a forum I mod, and I'm in two minds about it, I'll wait to see if anyone else reports it before taking any action.


lol, that is called "natural justice". Are you suggesting that if someone reports a post, then the mod should take action, in all cases?

What if I started reporting every post you made? And the mods were required to take action on my reported posts?

This is problem though isnt it. Mods arent sure who is the poster and who is the troller. I spent enough time on both Rafa and liverpool threads to know that certain posters werent happy. There were two occassions were two posters took an opposition poster to task and poster immediately went on the offensive. One poster at this stage is gone from boards as far as i can see as a result. The fact that we are into our fifteenth page tells me this isnt an open and shut case.
Something needs to be done.

Headshot

Des wrote: »

explain why please.

What right do u have to read reported posts from the sf when ure not a mod there.

Frisbee

SOS considering your leaving the SF for good, or so we're led to believe anyway, at the end of March, why are you arguing so vehemently for this?

We have so many pages as you keep bringing the discussion up, there is only a few other posters actively posting in this thread wanting sub forums.

If you stepped back from this argument that is in now way going to effect you well then this would be closer to an open and shut case.

Iago

I've avoided posting in this thread so far as I wanted to give users an opportunity to air their views without it seeming like every mod in the place was banging a drum against them.

What I have noticed is that it's a small minority that are vocal about wanting this change, only 7 posters in this thread so far. In and of itself I don't think that conclusive of the soccer forum as a whole, but it is an indicator that there is more noise than heat on this issue I think.

FWIW I don't particularly like the superthreads, but I understand why they were originally set up. We as a moderating team are in a no win situation with them at this point.

If we allow side conversations to be split into seperate threads posters who aren't interested in them will complain that they are taking over the forum, which is what led to the superthreads in the first place.

If we attempt to keep all club conversations in thread then posters who read those threads will complain that they are unwieldy and unmanageable.

I don't think that splitting out the superthreads into an individual forum will actually do anything to improve the experience for either side. Those who post in them won't find them any less unwieldy and those who think they are blocking real threads from being seen will find that there's a dearth of decent threads to read, because the superthreads aren't stickies, if they are on the front page it's because users are posting in them. That means there are more people interested in them than other subjects.

A big part of this is down to the fact that the majority of posters would support one or other of the teams that have a superthread and therefore they are far more likely to see traffic, but in part it's down to where the discussion points lie. There are 25 threads on the front page of the forum at the moment

1 off-topic thread
4 stickies, which could arguably be shrunk down to 2
9 Superthreads
10 individual threads

1 of those threads is locked since last night, and another on the 2nd page of threads is locked since 1st March. Neither have dropped any further so that could be an indication that there isn't a need for any more space for individual threads. It could also be an indicator that the superthreads are absorbing far too much content and therefore should be split back out in order to drive conversation.

I'm completely against club specific forums, for reasons that have been articulated far better by others earlier on in the thread, I'm not however against sub-forums per se and I can see the benefits of splitting the forum out by league, competition, colour of teams jerseys etc...

What I would suggest is that we all keep in mind what we're looking for and at the end of the Premier League Season there will be a review of the soccer forum, in the soccer forum. Everyone who posts in the Soccer Forum will see the thread and will have an opportunity to suggest changes. If there is enough interest and as a group we believe it will make the forum a better place then I'm sure changes will be considered. I think it's highly unlikely to happen before then though.


On the subject of moderation/trolls/trolling in general. Just because an individual user considers someones post to be trolling, that doesn't make it so. All reported posts are reviewed and a decision made on the basis of context and the charter. This is another subject that should be discussed as part of the overall review though as the implmentation of stricter moderation had users up in arms earlier in the season, and now the lack of strict moderation has users up in arms at the tail end of the season.

On a personal note I think a ban for Yellow Cards is absolutely the way forward, but again this needs to be discussed with the moderating team and the users of the forum and consensus reached as part of the annual review.

_blank_

Headshot wrote: »

What right do u have to read reported posts from the sf when ure not a mod there.

That is not a question for me I'm afraid. It's a question for the Admins.

--amadeus--

Headshot wrote: »

What right do u have to read reported posts from the sf when ure not a mod there.

For example, because there is no "training" as a Mod it helps to see how other, more experienced, Mods deal with difficult situations. And it's an OT discussion anyway.

Back OT...

What are teh aims of the SF? IMO:

- To allow supporters of different teams to discuss the various teams
- To allow supporters of "minority" teams to find others (sounds liek a dating site)
- To discuss football generally with people who don't follow teh same team as you
- To do so in as amicable and adult a manner as possible

I don't think the current setup does this. Club sub forums apparently wont either. But how about:

>>Soccer
>>>>The Big Club Forum (Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal)
>>>>UK Football Thread (Premiership (ex Big clubs), FA Cup, UK teams in Europe and all associated gossip, talk, etc)
>>>>Other Football (Internationals, Spanish, Italian and LoI football, general chat)

I know tehre will be a "Man City / Spurs / Everton / Accrington Stanley are a big club" outcry but I'm defing big by volume of posters in here.

Advantages are that it retains the cross team mix. It gets rid of teh superthreads (ahich are unreadible), it allows for fans of smaller UK teams to caht away without thier threads being pushed out by the big teams discussion. It prevents LoI / Premiership flame wars. It allows for niche or smaller conversation to happen without being carpet bombed out by the Big 4 chatter.

And a change to teh moderating may not be wanted but ask a union if they would like extra holidays and no disciplinary procedures and they'll grab it. It doesn't mean it's for teh good of teh factory though. Yellow / Red cards with reds being automatic bans of increasing length will soon knock the trolls and muppets out of it.

Quazzie

I'm a fan of the serperate club forums. Personally I think it would be a great addition to the site, and I would use it a lot more than I would/do the current soccer set-up. The current set-up is currently full of trolls and I will admit that I am easily wound up so I tend to stay away from the soccer forum. I read the Arsenal thread but I'll hold my hand up and say I don't contribute as much as I should.

Saying all that though, a while back I had the same thought as the OP. Why can't us Arsenal fans have their own forum. If our bitter rivals, Spurs, have one then why can't we. There would be more than enough traffic for it, and we could chat away about Arsenal specific topics without the trolls coming in spouting off about United or Liverpool etc.

So I set up the Arsenal Supporters Group as was suggested by an admin to gauge interest in it. The theory was, set up the social group, watch it roar off to success and then make a sustained bid for a forum with proof that it could work.

After great initial interest, it has failed. The last post on it was before Christmas. I still get the odd request to join but in terms of living up the theory it was a dramatic failure. So now the question is, Why?

The answer is simple. Posters like it the way it is. The Superthread roars on, and the soccer forum is still busy because people keep visiting them. Bad news for me and my plan for a club specific forum, but Good news for the soccer community on Boards.

Its a busy forum because people like posting in it. They enjoy the banter, have fun with the trolls and are happy with the moderation*. Why change it to suit me and the select few who want it different, and risk upsetting the hundreds who post regularly in its current format. Sure club specific forums might be a runaway success. I personally think I'd prefer it, but I accept I am in the minority and accept that the soccer forum is what it is. A place to discuss soccer related issues, and its a great success because of it.

Leave it be and don't change it because doing so might just well be the end of it as we know it, adn although its not perfect, it certaibly works as a whole.




*There'll always be some whiner that likes to complain about how Xmod was too harsh or biased because he didn't agree that Rafa is a great manager.

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

You are asking me the question you already know the answer to. It doesnt require a response.

Well in that case, seeing as you don't bother to report posts, don't bring it to the attention of the mods, and have made it quite clear that you're leaving the forum then you really have zero point in this thread.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 its this kind of attitude that really annoys me. One of the reasons im leaving this thread was because of the lack of action taken over posts that were reported. As Iago says there are seven posters who are unhappy here on this thread. So how many more have to make a complaint or leave before something is done. Its extremly frustating when you come out with posts like last one. Tells me you are taken nothing in at all. To clariy some posters recently admitted that they had gone over the top but i was told by another mod that it was down to my style of posting. So clearly it wasnt all down to me. Would hope somewhere down the line that some of what has been said by the minority of seven will be at least taken into consideration.

pickarooney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

>>Soccer
>>>>The Big Club Forum (Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal)
>>>>UK Football Thread (Premiership (ex Big clubs), FA Cup, UK teams in Europe and all associated gossip, talk, etc)
>>>>Other Football (Internationals, Spanish, Italian and LoI football, general chat)

That kind of structure fairly accurately represents the breakdown of threads currently, I reckon.

Anything that would keep mentions of ManU/Liverpool and the resultant sniping out of threads that have no relation to either club woud be a good starting point I think. Not to pick on those clubs for any reason, but it deos seem as though supporters of these two are particularly voluble and an unfortunate number can't seem to control themselves.

pickarooney

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Xavi6 its this kind of attitude that really annoys me. One of the reasons im leaving this thread was because of the lack of action taken over posts that were reported. As Iago says there are seven posters who are unhappy here on this thread. So how many more have to make a complaint or leave before something is done. Its extremly frustating when you come out with posts like last one. Tells me you are taken nothing in at all.

I don't know how to say this without sounding abrasive, butw ould you not do everyone a favour and either

1) shut up about the fact that you're leaving the thread, the forum, the site or whatever and never coming back or
2) leave already

It's like eagle_eye all over again. I don't know how you can expect to be taken seriously if you keep up this attention queen routine.

Jazzy

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

One of the reasons im leaving this thread

are you henry viii reincarnated?

Spiritoftheseventies

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't know how to say this without sounding abrasive, butw ould you not do everyone a favour and either

1) shut up about the fact that you're leaving the thread, the forum, the site or whatever and never coming back or
2) leave already

It's like eagle_eye all over again. I don't know how you can expect to be taken seriously if you keep up this attention queen routine.

Rooney you dont speak for everyone here. I have quite a few people here who want me to stay. But it suits some peoples agenda to ignore that. I said i am leaving before or end of march. Im reluctantly giving up my soccer privileges as soon as the particulars are sorted.
There were a few who were asking me to stay but really most people are making it very easy at this stage for me to leave. Wont feel bad about leaving at all now.

ShiverinEskimo

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

the particulars are sorted.

You waiting on a visa or immigration papers to come through from Irishkop or something?

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Xavi6 its this kind of attitude that really annoys me. One of the reasons im leaving this thread was because of the lack of action taken over posts that were reported.

Not every post that is reported has action taken against it. The majority of them do but some posts that get reported are ridiculous. There does be nothing wrong with them and what's happened is the person reporting the post disagrees with something the reported has said and takes offence.

You can't expect every reported post to have action taken against it.

Also, if you don't even bother reporting posts then why are you complaining about it?

Spiritoftheseventies

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

You waiting on a visa or immigration papers to come through from Irishkop or something?

Not sure if you know the ins and outs of closing accounts but they take time. Either way its going a bit off topic here.

Headshot

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Not sure if you know the ins and outs of closing accounts but they take time. Either way its going a bit off topic here.

No they dont, just log off. Admins dont close accounts fyi

Spud83

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Xavi6 its this kind of attitude that really annoys me. One of the reasons im leaving this thread was because of the lack of action taken over posts that were reported.

Do you think the mods just ignore reported posts?

No they look at them and decide whether action needs to be taken. If you don't like why a post hasn't been actioned then I suggest you PM them or the category mods to get clarification.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

As Iago says there are seven posters who are unhappy here on this thread. So how many more have to make a complaint or leave before something is done.

I'd say a lot more. I don't the numbers exactly, but the soccer forum is the second biggest forum on here besides AH, based on post count.

7 posters in the grand scheme of thing is a tiny, tiny, tiny majority. At this moment alone there are 70 people are viewing the forum. Even if you say that the 7 here that are unhappy are currently online that is 10% of the users. I being very generous to you here with my numbers and its still a tiny minority.

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Its extremly frustating when you come out with posts like last one. Tells me you are taken nothing in at all.

I'm sure they are taking everything in, the problem you have is that they disagree with what you want. Maybe you are the one that is not taking anything in.

Again I ask.

Why don't you use the other club specific forums on the internet?

What attracted you to the Boards.ie Soccer forum in the first place. Must have been something since you went to the bother of getting 50 posts, and applying for access.

Can you answer these questions? Or will you ignore them again?

Spud83

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Not sure if you know the ins and outs of closing accounts but they take time. Either way its going a bit off topic here.

I'll help you here. Click Edit Email and Password in your User CP. Enter your current password.

Open a text pad. Mash keyboard for a bit. Copy what you mashed, and paste into the new password and confirm password field.

Logout.

There ya go you won't be able to log in, account locked.

You can put in a fake email meaning you won't be able to retrieve the password if you so wish.

Spiritoftheseventies

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Do you think the mods just ignore reported posts?

No they look at them and decide whether action needs to be taken. If you don't like why a post hasn't been actioned then I suggest you PM them or the category mods to get clarification.



I'd say a lot more. I don't the numbers exactly, but the soccer forum is the second biggest forum on here besides AH, based on post count.

7 posters in the grand scheme of thing is a tiny, tiny, tiny majority. At this moment alone there are 70 people are viewing the forum. Even if you say that the 7 here that are unhappy are currently online that is 10% of the users. I being very generous to you here with my numbers and its still a tiny minority.



I'm sure they are taking everything in, the problem you have is that they disagree with what you want. Maybe you are the one that is not taking anything in.

Again I ask.

Why don't you use the other club specific forums on the internet?

What attracted you to the Boards.ie Soccer forum in the first place. Must have been something since you went to the bother of getting 50 posts, and applying for access.

Can you answer these questions? Or will you ignore them again?

I do use other club specific forums. What attracted me to soccer forum. Same as everyone else.
It didnt work out in the end. Not the end of the world.

meditraitor

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

.

You should know not to mess with that little clique, they were here before you and will be here afterwards..... oh and they like to let you know it.
Its their little lickarse friends that makes most people leave...

Good luck

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I do use other club specific forums. What attracted me to soccer forum. Same as everyone else.

Which is?

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

It didnt work out in the end. Not the end of the world.

Your trying your best to make it sound like it is tbh.

tbh

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

. As Iago says there are seven posters who are unhappy here on this thread. .

seven out of....? How many people have to be happy before you realise the problem is with you, not the mods?

_blank_

I hope someone starts a thread in the SF soon, the Liverpool thread is about to drop off page 1

Spiritoftheseventies

Iago wrote: »

On a personal note I think a ban for Yellow Cards is absolutely the way forward, but again this needs to be discussed with the moderating team and the users of the forum and consensus reached as part of the annual review.

Id agree. At the moment certain posters seem to think they have the license to post anything since the relaxing of the laws around here. It has led to all sorts of problems And yes I agree there needs to be consensus here. But IMO would solve a lot of the problems around here.