Seperate Club Forums

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Id agree. At the moment certain posters seem to think they have the license to post anything since the relaxing of the laws around here. It has led to all sorts of problems And yes I agree there needs to be consensus here. But IMO would solve a lot of the problems around here.

Did I miss something? What relaxing of the laws?

_blank_

Frisbee wrote: »

Did I miss something? What relaxing of the laws?

For a while, a yellow card was an instant ban, now it isn't anymore.

Headshot

what ever happened to yellow cards on the thread? .Mods just pm the infraction to the user . Whats that about?

Iago

Headshot wrote: »

what ever happened to yellow cards on the thread? .Mods just pm the infraction to the user . Whats that about?

what?

if you get a PM of an infraction it shows up as a yellow card on thread. Can you link to an example where it hasn't?

Frisbee

Des wrote: »

For a while, a yellow card was an instant ban, now it isn't anymore.

That was fecking ages ago though wasn't it?

Headshot wrote: »

what ever happened to yellow cards on the thread? .Mods just pm the infraction to the user . Whats that about?

Still happens afaik? You get a PM and the yellow appears.

astrofool

Xavi6 wrote: »

Have you actual read the reasons why we would walk away?....

So if the forum goes down the road of subforums then I will be stepping aside, not because I'm a baby and have toys I wish to throw out of a pram, but simply because that sort of structure holds zero interest for me.

In response to this. If you are to walk away, it doesn't need to be made public, until the change has occurred, and then you walk away. People may give out about spirt/bay's need to announce he's leaving the forum, but the mods are being just as melodramatic when they do the same thing. It also makes it a case of "my way or the highway", and reinforces the cliquey nature of moderation in the soccer forum.

Announcing it the way a couple of the mods have, is, as Des so eloquently described it, being a sensitive Sarah.

Spiritoftheseventies

Iago wrote: »

This is another subject that should be discussed as part of the overall review though as the implmentation of stricter moderation had users up in arms earlier in the season, and now the lack of strict moderation has users up in arms at the tail end of the season.

Sorry forgot to put this in Fribee. From preceding paragraph

_blank_

Headshot wrote: »

what ever happened to yellow cards on the thread? .Mods just pm the infraction to the user . Whats that about?

I think you need an explanation of how infractions work.

Right beside the Report Post Button there is another button that looks like this



Which all mods can see (all mods have the ability to give yellow or red cards in any forum, but we don't do that, that's a feature of vBulletin, which can't be turned off, or if Boards.ie wanted to turn it off, would need to re-write the code).

anyway, when that button is clicked the mod is re-directed to another page, which looks a bit like a page where you'd write a new PM. On that page we see a list of options which include such things as "Breach of Charter", "Breach of the Peace", "Spamming" - all the reasons we can choose for giving a yellow/red card.

We then must choose between Warning (yellow) or Infraction (red).

Once we do this we click a button labelled "Give Warning/Infraction". This action automatically generates a PM to the user, and also a post in another forum, similar to the Reported Posts forum, called the "User Infractions" forum. This creates an easily followed paper trail, in case of dispute.

When a post has been infracted/warned a yellow or red card will appear beside the post for Ten Days, after which time the warning/infraction "runs out".

The reason for that is that if a user has racked up nine infractions in a ten day persiod, they are automatically site-banned for a week.

Spiritoftheseventies

Okay so located this thread. Is this the eagle eye guy folks were talking about. In terms of the forum, do posters think things have improved a year on.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055470206&highlight=xavi+forum+rules

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Do you have any ideas as to how they could be less of a pain in the arse?

Apologies Des, just saw this now.

I really don't at this stage. With one forum we are tied to how many threads there can be on one topic/club but on the flipside, subforums will kill the place as we know and love it.

I am trying to think of a way around it though.

astrofool wrote: »

In response to this. If you are to walk away, it doesn't need to be made public, until the change has occurred, and then you walk away. People may give out about spirt/bay's need to announce he's leaving the forum, but the mods are being just as melodramatic when they do the same thing. It also makes it a case of "my way or the highway", and reinforces the cliquey nature of moderation in the soccer forum.

Announcing it the way a couple of the mods have, is, as Des so eloquently described it, being a sensitive Sarah.

A valid point mate.

My intention was not to put it forward as another string to the bow of my argument, more so just to explain how much against the change I am, i.e. I like the forum a lot but if this happened I would unfortunately have to walk away from the modding end of it.

No melodramatics intended.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

Apologies Des, just saw this now.

I really don't at this stage. With one forum we are tied to how many threads there can be on one topic/club but on the flipside, subforums will kill the place as we know and love it.

I am trying to think of a way around it though.



A valid point mate.

My intention was not to put it forward as another string to the bow of my argument, more so just to explain how much against the change I am, i.e. I like the forum a lot but if this happened I would unfortunately have to walk away from the modding end of it.

No melodramatics intended.

Would you be prepared to do that xavi if it was for the good of the forum. In other words will it be an issue if you feel you have to walk away. Impression i get is that you find some of the threads hard to mod. If it was a case where they needed modification in terms of either dividing them up or modding them would you stand in the way of it by threatening to walka away
Think you are a good enough poster as a rule but it seems from what you have said yourself that you find some threads hard to mod.

Headshot

Iago wrote: »

what?

if you get a PM of an infraction it shows up as a yellow card on thread. Can you link to an example where it hasn't?

Apologies im on the phone so bare with, a friend pm me a while back and forward me his infraction and i click the link which came with the infraction and i see no yellow.
Ill pm later and ask was his post deleted. Btw im not a fan of deleting some posts which have yellow cards

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Would you be prepared to do that xavi if it was for the good of the forum. In other words will it be an issue if you feel you have to walk away. Impression i get is that you find some of the threads hard to mod. If it was a case where they needed modification in terms of either dividing them up or modding them would you stand in the way of it by threatening to walka away
Think you are a good enough poster as a rule but it seems from what you have said yourself that you find some threads hard to mod.

Absolutely not. If I'm not happy with the direction of the forum then why would I mod it? Not good for me or the forum, and good luck to whoever takes the gig afterwards.

I agreed to mod under the current system, not the proposed one. No biggie really.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

Absolutely not. If I'm not happy with the direction of the forum then why would I mod it? Not good for me or the forum, and good luck to whoever takes the gig afterwards.

I agreed to mod under the current system, not the proposed one. No biggie really.

I understamd that. But all im asking it would you simply walk away and leave it at that.

_blank_

Headshot wrote: »

Apologies im on the phone so bare with, a friend pm me a while back and forward me his infraction and i click the link which came with the infraction and i see no yellow.
Ill pm later and ask was his post deleted. Btw im not a fan of deleting some posts which have yellow cards

How long after the infraction was given was it that you looked at it?

If it was ten days or more, then the card would have disappeared from the post.

Look at this post, there is a yellow beside it, look at it again in ten days, and the yellow will be gone. It's the way the system works.

(I picked that post because it was the most recent infracted post I could find in the SF)


Actually, whoops, I'm talking through my hole it seems.

Here is a post that received an infraction on the 3rd Jan, which still has the card beside it.

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I understamd that. But all im asking it would you simply walk away and leave it at that.

I never said I'd walk away altogether, just from modding. I'd still post on what was left of a general football forum.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

I never said I'd walk away altogether, just from modding. I'd still post on what was left of a general football forum.

To be fair Xavi wouldnt want you leaving here as a rule. was very impressed with this post as you made a stand on a matter where others wouldnt have.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64504717&postcount=63
That said I think your fears on the subforums are a bit misguided. Think they should be given a chance.
If laws are laid down and implemented the trolling shouldnt be an issue. Its all about enforcement.

Dave!

Spiritoftheseventies is a great poster lads, stop trying to get rid of him just cos you can't deal with the points he makes in a debate. You guys just wanna have your own little clique where nobody questions anybody, but SOS comes in and throws a cat amongst the pigeons and your feathers all get a bit ruffled and you try get him to leave.

For shame.

pickarooney

I still don't buy this notion of sub-forums killing off the main forum. Quick show of hands - who would stop posting in the general soccer forum if there was a sub-forum for their team and of those who say yes, why do you use boards.ie's soccer forum if you're only interested in your own club?

Spiritoftheseventies

pickarooney wrote: »

I still don't buy this notion of sub-forums killing off the main forum. Quick show of hands - who would stop posting in the general soccer forum if there was a sub-forum for their team and of those who say yes, why do you use boards.ie's soccer forum if you're only interested in your own club?

Thinking you are missing the point and its seems a lot of others are. Speaking personally. Im not advocating a sub forum to get away from the other posters. Im advocating it so to structure the thread better. And to answer your question I wouldnt stop posting. Main forum would only be a click away. No logical reason for not having one in an all honesty.

mike65

pickarooney wrote: »

I still don't buy this notion of sub-forums killing off the main forum. Quick show of hands - who would stop posting in the general soccer forum if there was a sub-forum for their team and of those who say yes, why do you use boards.ie's soccer forum if you're only interested in your own club?

It should be self evident that anyone who posts with any regularity on Soccer does so for the love/hate of the game rather than a single team. So the idea that sub-forums will kill off a substaintial part of the trade has never held water for me. Some mods appear to have less faith than the rest of us.

Spiritoftheseventies

mike65 wrote: »

It should be self evident that anyone who posts with any regularity on Soccer does so for the love/hate of the game rather than a single team. So the idea that sub-forums will kill off a substaintial part of the trade has never held water for me. Some mods appear to have less faith than the rest of us.

An idea for you mods. Rather than wait till the end of the summer why not try it out until the end of the season. You will in any any case have the world cup so you shouldnt lose any posters in any case as most club posters will want to post on that.
If it doesnt work out you can reverse the decision. Does that sound fair?

Iago

Genuine question here

I highlighted earlier that there have only been posts from 7 individual posters looking for this in this thread. That means that there were (not including mods/admins) more than 20 posters saying we shouldn't make this change.

Given that this thread alone has over 3 times as many people saying "don't make club sub-forums" why would we look to completely change the forum at this point when there is clearly no mandate to do so?

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

An idea for you mods. Rather than wait till the end of the summer why not try it out until the end of the season. You will in any any case have the world cup so you shouldnt lose any posters in any case as most club posters will want to post on that.
If it doesnt work out you can reverse the decision. Does that sound fair?

We mods don't decide the structure of forum.

LoLth

not supporting either side of this argument, just wanted to ask a question from a logistics POV.

How many sub-forums would you be talking about?
1 for each premier side?
1 for each team in each league?
Would there be one for Dynamo Kiev for example?
what about African leagues or Chinese leagues?


if it is limited to say the premiership reams, what happens whena team gets relegated? would it be fair to the other division one supporters if their teams didnt have a forum but another one did? Would they not have a valid argument to have a team forum set up for them? Would a relegated team's forum be deleted?

Would it be fair to restrict it to English soccer only? What about fans that follow brazillian soccer? or Italian?

Would match talk be restricted to a general forum or would match discussion be allowed in the team forum? What if someone from the other team forum posts in support of a point or to correct a mistake that has been posted? What if he/she posts to laugh at a defeat or point out a foul that went unpunished?

From a logistics Point of View it seems that if any team forums are created its going to automatically lead to some users feeling neglected or discriminated against. The only way to avoid this, imho, if to not have any team specific forums.

I'm not a soccer fan/follower beyond a passing interest in Wolves (stop laughing!) so please dont take my comments as anything other than curiosity.

Spud83

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

An idea for you mods. Rather than wait till the end of the summer why not try it out until the end of the season. You will in any any case have the world cup so you shouldnt lose any posters in any case as most club posters will want to post on that.
If it doesnt work out you can reverse the decision. Does that sound fair?

I know you directed it at mods but as Xavi just said the structure of the forum isn't decided by them and I think everyone should have there say.

To me no it doesn't sound fair. To me there has been a clear no to this idea, from the users, and the mods. No matter how many times you ask the question right now you are going to get a resounding no from the majority of the forum, and seemingly the majority of the mods.

What you basically asking is lets put something in place that the strong minority of the forum don't want. Does that sounds fair?

Quazzie

LoLth wrote: »

not supporting either side of this argument, just wanted to ask a question from a logistics POV.

How many sub-forums would you be talking about?
1 for each premier side?
1 for each team in each league?
Would there be one for Dynamo Kiev for example?
what about African leagues or Chinese leagues?


if it is limited to say the premiership reams, what happens whena team gets relegated? would it be fair to the other division one supporters if their teams didnt have a forum but another one did? Would they not have a valid argument to have a team forum set up for them? Would a relegated team's forum be deleted?

Would it be fair to restrict it to English soccer only? What about fans that follow brazillian soccer? or Italian?

Would match talk be restricted to a general forum or would match discussion be allowed in the team forum? What if someone from the other team forum posts in support of a point or to correct a mistake that has been posted? What if he/she posts to laugh at a defeat or point out a foul that went unpunished?

From a logistics Point of View it seems that if any team forums are created its going to automatically lead to some users feeling neglected or discriminated against. The only way to avoid this, imho, if to not have any team specific forums.

I'm not a soccer fan/follower beyond a passing interest in Wolves (stop laughing!) so please dont take my comments as anything other than curiosity.

And this is why each proposal should be handled individually on merit using the correct procedure in the Forums forum.

Spiritoftheseventies

Im asking for a show of a hands. A poll on the soccer forum Want to see exactly how many are in favour and how many are against. Woud anyone have a problem with that. s that okay with mods.

Iago

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Im asking for a show of a hands. A poll on the soccer forum Want to see exactly how many are in favour and how many are against. Woud anyone have a problem with that. Would be a multi choice. One for a seperate superthreads subforum and same for seperate club forum. Is that okay with mods.

I think the proposal in general is sound, but the timing is wrong.

If we are to do something like this, and I'm not saying we definitely will, what I'd suggest is that as part of our annual review we throw a thread up on the Soccer forum.

SOS can argue for the creation of club sub-forums in one post

and A N Other (tbd) can argue against the creation of club sub-forums in one post

there will be no other posts allowed and users can vote in a poll for or against.

Spud83

Its like the Lisbon treaty lets keep doing it till we get it the way I want.