New Wheels

brendan0576

HI
I have as set of Fulcrum Racing 7's on my bike
I was thinking of up grading
Any suggestions
Thanks in advance

DirkVoodoo

Any ideas on why you want to upgrade? Aesthetics, weight, aerodynamics?

Some nice options to consider in the "lightweight sportive" arena:

Shimano Dura Ace 7850 CL

Shimano RS80 (Same wheel but with Ultegra hubs)

Mavic Ksyrium Elite

DT Swiss 1450 Mon Chasseral

jdt101

Budget...

Murph100

Yup, budget is critical !

abcdggs

What kind of budget have you got??

Edit- great minds whot whot

Murph100

Campag or Shimano freehub ?

Murph100

Heh, sure we'd all be on Lightweight tubbies otherwise

abcdggs wrote: »

What kind of budget have you got??

Edit- great minds whot whot

Lumen

Lightweight Standard C III Clincher Road Bike Wheelset 2010

Murph100

See wot I mean ???

Lumen wrote: »

Lightweight Standard C III Clincher Road Bike Wheelset 2010

abcdggs

I love when people go wild with suggestions around here, you see some serious kit!

Bit disappointed with Dirk's sense of reality though...

abcdggs

My Suggestion

brendan0576

Max budget is 800E
Looking for lightweight wheels
and Shimanio

Murph100

Oh, so we're talking about everyday wheelsets then ? ... and here was me looking for some exotica !

abcdggs wrote: »

My Suggestion

abcdggs

Murph100 wrote: »

Oh, so we're talking about everyday wheelsets then ? ... and here was me looking for some exrotica !

corrected
at least that's what mine is anyway

jwshooter

abcdggs wrote: »

My Suggestion

you did not read the small print .( not to be used on irish roads)

brendan0576

with the state of the roads around the country at the moment i'd hate to spend crazy money on a good set and make bits of them

Murph100

for Irish roads these ROCK !

Raam

brendan0576 wrote: »

Max budget is 800E
Looking for lightweight wheels
and Shimanio

I have these: Mavic Ksyrium SL
€730 the pair.
Well worth it.

Billy Whizz

Ksyriums are your only man.

Light (for clinchers) and well suited for Irish roads.

Murph100

Slane are doing the SL Premiums for €658 ( 22% off )

http://www.slanecycles.com/mavic-ksyrium-sl-premium-2009-wheels-p-3883.html


But these Dura Ace are lighter at 1410g ( Actual Comp Cyclist ) and have 23% off at the mo, pretty good bang for yer buck IMO, wish they would fit Campag, then again my piggay bank cant take anymore pain


http://www.slanecycles.com/shimano-dura-ace-7850-c24-cl-wheels-clincher-pair-2010-p-1395.html

RobFowl

+1 for the Kysriums
I've the SL on my good bike and the ES's (2005) on my winter bike.
Both as smooth as new and true. Have not needed any servicing on either, even though the rims on the ES's are close to worn out

jdt101

Lumen wrote: »

Lightweight Standard C III Clincher Road Bike Wheelset 2010

I suggest buying 2 sets, in case you smash one set off a pot hole....

jdt101

On a more serious note, my 2 cent worth;

Fulcrum Racing 1's (zero not worth the extra €€€'s) also 2-way fit.

http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=13928;group=20;page=1;pid=30;menuid1=4;menuid2=123;mid=114

blorg

Murph100 wrote: »

But these Dura Ace are lighter at 1410g ( Actual Comp Cyclist ) and have 23% off at the mo, pretty good bang for yer buck IMO, wish they would fit Campag, then again my piggay bank cant take anymore pain

If you really want them you can get Campagnolo-spaced cassettes (quite cheap too) that fit on a Shimano freehub. Strange to an extent they don't offer a Campagnolo freehub option, Campagnolo have a Shimano option on their own wheels.

Murph100

Putting one of those cassettes with my new Super Record gruppo would probably end with my execution, and rightly so !

Sure besides I'm running your favourite wheels at the mo, Shamal Ultras

I agree though, it is pretty weird Shimano dont offer a Campag option.

blorg wrote: »

If you really want them you can get Campagnolo-spaced cassettes (quite cheap too) that fit on a Shimano freehub. Strange to an extent they don't offer a Campagnolo freehub option, Campagnolo have a Shimano option on their own wheels.

blorg

I don't like the Campy three-spoke pattern on the rear, no. If they could only ditch that their wheels would be very nice (e.g. Fulcrums.)

Murph100

Heh, thats what I love about 'em

blorg wrote: »

I don't like the Campy three-spoke pattern on the rear, no. If they could only ditch that their wheels would be very nice (e.g. Fulcrums.)

kerryscoob

How about these,any opinions.

Raam

kerryscoob wrote: »

How about these,any opinions.

I'd love a set of those. Have heard good things about them. Heavier than the Ksyrium SLs mind.

RobFowl

kerryscoob wrote: »

How about these,any opinions.

Tunney reckons they're not aero enough

blorg

kerryscoob wrote: »

How about these,any opinions.

They look like very good value to me and Quigs reckons they are more solid for Irish roads than the likes of Zipps.

Murph100

Che has these so he can give you some feedback. My buddy also has them, I've tried them out a few times, they're heavy enough but not bad for a clincher of that depth, and yes, absolutely bombproof. My only gripe with them is that the carbon fairing acts like a boom box, everytime you change gear the whole everybody in the group can hear it, no surprise attacks with these.

IIRC a sprinter in Quigs club got rid of them for that very reason.

Murph100

BTW just been following a very interesting thread on WW about aero wheels, and about a recent Tour test where apparently a Mavic Ksyriums SL beat a Reynlods DV 46 for aerodynamics, and now apparently, Zipps own tests show similar results. A tech from Zipp gave some very interesting info, must be treated with a degree of caution of course but here is the main bit :

"Sorry some are having trouble with the data for the Reynolds and the Mavic. I definitely take umbrage with the suggestion that there is any manipulation going on with the data; as I said before, our record with data relative to Tour magazine, BTR, and other independent sources speaks for itself. I realize that when results don't agree with one's expectations it's easy to claim shenanigans with the data but that's absolutely not the case, as should be obvious with some further investigation (the data is out there).

I've previously posted data for the Reynolds on here as well as the Shimano 50mm wheel when it was purely v-shaped in profile as the Reynolds. The difference between those data sets and this is that those were with 21mm tires and this was with 23mm tires. The reason 23mm tires were chosen is based on our surveys of users of this type of rim. That poses a definite handicap to v-shaped wheels as they are much more sensitive to tire width exceeding the width of the rim itself; this is one of the benefits of the toroidal profile. The Reynolds in particular is rather narrow, hence it is such a poor performer in this test; we've shown the superiority of the 202 relative to it previously with a 21mm tire but with the 23mm tire the relative differences between these wheels increase. The Reynolds tests reasonably well with a 19mm tire, but then most every other wheel will see a similar reduction in drag with such a narrow tire; in our case, the difference between a 21mm tire and a 23mm tire on our rims is close enough in certain models that it doesn't even fall outside the resolution of the tunnel itself.

Regarding the Hed data, you'll see a similar trend in their data but at a different magnitude. Again, not knowing the specifics of their tests I cannot comment on why there would be such a difference. As I said before, given the quantities of runs we performed with each of these wheels, I have the utmost confidence anyone can replicate these results within ±10 grams of drag.

The Ksyrium has always been a poor performer in the tunnel but the switch to a 23mm tire leveled the field a bit. Those results were a bit surprising once we began piecing everything together, but sometimes the eyeball wind tunnel doesn't agree with the actual data as closely as one would expect.

[Belated edit] One thing that gets easily lost in all this is when comparing numbers from different tunnels, different days, etc. it's best not to look at raw numbers but rather relative performance; the trends will definitely be the same but the numbers can vary significantly between tunnels even with all else held constant."

Quigs Snr

Murph100 wrote: »

Che has these so he can give you some feedback. My buddy also has them, I've tried them out a few times, they're heavy enough but not bad for a clincher of that depth, and yes, absolutely bombproof. My only gripe with them is that the carbon fairing acts like a boom box, everytime you change gear the whole everybody in the group can hear it, no surprise attacks with these.

IIRC a sprinter in Quigs club got rid of them for that very reason.

Thats true Murph, if you are trying to launch sneak attacks you may as well be wearing bells on your feet. That being said, I love the sound effects from them. Makes me feel 10kph quicker than I am. All this talk of the Shimano Dura Ace CL24's has me tempted so quit it !

brendan0576

Whats the advantages/disadvantages of the deeper rims for example on the Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL compared to the more standard wheels on the market

Murph100

Well apart from the most important advantage ... the bling factor

Supposedly better aerodynamics equals less drag and more watts saved at a given speed.


But :

When not going 30kmph +, they offer no real advantage.

Recent tests have shown most non toroidal deep section wheels when used with 23mm tyres are no more aero than standard rims. All the cool data was supposedly collected with 21mm tyres. ( Zipps claim it has to be said )

When the road begins to point up and your speed drops, the extra rotational weight becomes a disadvantage.

So unless you're a racer, TT fanatic or live in Holland you probably wont reap the benefits.

A pointy (TT ) helmet will make you go faster than any set of wheels.

... but then again whats that go to do with things ... THEY LOOK GREAT !!!!

brendan0576

Ya they look pretty awesome alright

blorg

Murph100 wrote: »

Recent tests have shown most non toroidal deep section wheels when used with 23mm tyres are no more aero than standard rims. All the cool data was supposedly collected with 21mm tyres. ( Zipps claim it has to be said )

I think that was a Zipp study, which hardly surprising as they are the ones making "toroidal" rims.

I'm somewhat sceptical as most of the peloton are on non-toroidal deep section wheels not made by Zipp. If it really mattered the top guys would be on X Y Z (cf the wide pro takeup of Lightweights in the early 2000s, or was that just superstition.)

Murph100

I'm sure their toroidal competitors HED will also agree with Zipps study, again hardly surprising, both companies marketing depts would probably turn rusting spokes into a 'must have' aero advanatage

... however it was a Tour test which found similar results test that sparked off the whole debate on that thread. I couldn't give a rats arse about half the tests out there and more so the Tour ones but it did raise some interesting points.

blorg wrote: »

I think that was a Zipp study, which hardly surprising as they are the ones making "toroidal" rims.

I'm somewhat sceptical as most of the peloton are on non-toroidal deep section wheels not made by Zipp. If it really mattered the top guys would be on X Y Z (cf the wide pro takeup of Lightweights in the early 2000s, or was that just superstition.)

blorg wrote: »

I think that was a Zipp study, which hardly surprising as they are the ones making "toroidal" rims.

I'm somewhat sceptical as most of the peloton are on non-toroidal deep section wheels not made by Zipp. If it really mattered the top guys would be on X Y Z (cf the wide pro takeup of Lightweights in the early 2000s, or was that just superstition.)

blorg

I have Zipp 404s myself, have not yet raced on them. But I am skeptical as hell!

In the sort of situation where drag differences are quoted between 23 and 21mm tyres, I will not deny there could be differences but I suspect that these are blown up and would be insignificant in a race.

Just my uninformed opinion.

I know I can hear deep section rims revving up behind me and it is a definite hint to get ready to grab a wheel.

Murph100

Uninformed opinion ? Jaysus Blorg, I'm not even at grasshopper stage compared to you !!

blorg wrote: »

I have Zipp 404s myself, have not yet raced on them. But I am skeptical as hell!

In the sort of situation where drag differences are quoted between 23 and 21mm tyres, I will not deny there could be differences but I suspect that these are blown up and would be insignificant in a race.

Just my uninformed opinion.

I know I can hear deep section rims revving up behind me and it is a definite hint to get ready to grab a wheel.

CjdC1

zipp 202's . nice especially if they are free

jwshooter

stop, stop stop , looking at this thread . sorry, thats just for myself.

crumliniano

Uninformed opinion - I got Campag Zonda's a few months ago and am loving them. Happy on the winter raods.

Contibutors to this forum seem to fall into two categories
(1) Those who think the Campag spoke pattern is cool and
(2) Those who think it is rank.

If you fall into the former then I'd consider Capmag wheels (based on my limited experience). With your budget you could go for Eurus, Neutron Ultra or Zonda (I'm assuming here that the quality of Campag wheels is true throughout the price ranges - somebody might correct me on this). I had a Shimano freehub fitted to the Zonda's too - no issue there.

Finally, don't forget about €100 of your budget will go on tyres and tubes.

blorg

crumliniano wrote: »

Contibutors to this forum seem to fall into two categories
(1) Those who think the Campag spoke pattern is cool and
(2) Those who think it is rank.

I'm sort of half and half, e.g. I think it looks fine at the front. :pac:

abcdggs

blorg wrote: »

I'm sort of half and half, e.g. I think it looks fine at the front. :pac:

Is this from concerns over how effective the threading is in power transfer?

blorg

abcdggs wrote: »

Is this from concerns over how effective the threading is in power transfer?

No, there is a lot of stuff out there on the supposed technical benefits or lack thereof with a paired spoke spoking pattern (of which the Campy three spoke is a variant) but at root I just think it looks awful. Paired spokes (Trek/Bontrager/Rolf) look better IMHO but spacing the spokes evenly around the rim looks best of all.

abcdggs

coincidence??

PBK email i'm sure everyone here just recieved

Murph100

Good job my Shamals are in the garage and cant see your comments !

blorg wrote: »

No, there is a lot of stuff out there on the supposed technical benefits or lack thereof with a paired spoke spoking pattern (of which the Campy three spoke is a variant) but at root I just think it looks awful. Paired spokes (Trek/Bontrager/Rolf) look better IMHO but spacing the spokes evenly around the rim looks best of all.

Murph100

I can honestly say from my own experience, the Shamal Ultras are the stiffest wheel I've ever used, zero flex and also practically zero compliance, which is why many find them too harsh, and why I run them on Hutch Tubeless. Stomp on them and they go. Bloody bombproof so far as well, not bad for a 1443g ( actual ) wheelset.

abcdggs wrote: »

Is this from concerns over how effective the threading is in power transfer?

THIS is an honest, no BS, explanation of that spoke pattern from a pro wheel builder.

blorg

Murph100 wrote: »

THIS is an honest, no BS, explanation of that spoke pattern from a pro wheel builder.

I think the main benefit though is the 2:1 spoke pattern which they also do on Fulcrum wheels but with evenly spaced spokes. I don't think there is any advantage to sticking all the spokes together like that... there are those that argue that you need to over-engineer the rim to keep it straight in the gaps. Also, in the unlikely event of your breaking a spoke you are fecked as the rim will deform massively.