Vets Fees

haybob

This has probably been discussed here before but I feel I have been robbed a few times just after forking out €150 for a difficult calving and paid €220 to get bullocks I bought dehorned (how they were let into the mart I don't know but they were cheap enough and I took a chance).

I just think they are awful expensive but you can’t do without em

vanderbadger

how many did they do for 220, the crowd in my area have a monopoly, total rip off merchants

John_F

In Cork: call out charge €50, hoof pair 1 animal €15, shoe an animal €10 all plus vat, disgrace, it is a monopoly

haybob

8 for €220, it takes the good out of any few pound you might make out of em.

To john F the callout charge here is €70

vanderbadger wrote: »

how many did they do for 220, the crowd in my area have a monopoly, total rip off merchants

vanderbadger

jaysus,
by the time you take the callout fee out of it its probably 20 ish euro per animal
sure every time i get them out for 5 mins to see calf its 60 or 70 euro

porscheman

Vets have overheads too and went to college for a long number of years

If it is too expensive try another one

John_F

@porscheman: not that simple, when a farmer builds up a relationship with a vet, get to know what ones are good with animals, also no vet is going to under cut another. of course i under stand they went to college for 5-6 years and do have overheads, but in times of poor farmer incomes is it not appropriate to discuss these matters? Find out is it just a cartel in your area etc. In fairness we get a discount for paying direct debit but can only see this lasting so long up to when they get sufficient numbers

maidhcII

John_F wrote: »

In Cork: call out charge €50, hoof pair 1 animal €15, shoe an animal €10 all plus vat, disgrace, it is a monopoly

I can't see how it could be much cheaper to be honest. As a farmer you have to make a call if the animal is worth calling the vet to. When I was doing my "green cert" a teagasc tutor said "always remember, a sick sheep is a dead sheep", his point being to cut your losses straight away and write the animal off.

By the time the vet has his diesel paid, and a few other bits and piece you can be sure he is making nothing from that €50 call out.

Put it in perspective: I was invoiced €700 for 4 hours work to fit a phone system in my office. I paid what I felt was appropriate.

massey woman

I have to say that vets generally give an excellent service
In fact better than the HSE provide for humans
You pay for what you get
Remember what the chippy and blocklayer were getting without 580 points and seven years study
Most vets are farmers sons and all know theres no margin in farming
Its a hobby that takes a good job to maintain like all hobbies so be prepared to support financially
Alternatives are a plenty

leg wax

i paid my vet a year in advance this year, i paid him a average over the last 3 years between call out charges and tb testing, the deal was stuck when i bought all vaccines from him lepto ibr bvd rota , he reduced my bill by 20% hes paid and i am happy, its the time to try every thing to cut costs, off the point reps planner was 450€ told him 300€ he took it as well.

irishh_bob

porscheman wrote: »

Vets have overheads too and went to college for a long number of years

If it is too expensive try another one

so getting 590 points in your leaving cert ( free college to follow ) gives you licence to charge outrageous prices , along with doctors ( another clique) they have not dropped thier fees a cent since the rescession began

irishh_bob

maidhcII wrote: »

I can't see how it could be much cheaper to be honest. As a farmer you have to make a call if the animal is worth calling the vet to. When I was doing my "green cert" a teagasc tutor said "always remember, a sick sheep is a dead sheep", his point being to cut your losses straight away and write the animal off.

By the time the vet has his diesel paid, and a few other bits and piece you can be sure he is making nothing from that €50 call out.

Put it in perspective: I was invoiced €700 for 4 hours work to fit a phone system in my office. I paid what I felt was appropriate.

nothing left to show after he pays for his diesel , what does your vet drive , a humvee :eek:

haybob

I won’t dispute the service, the crowd I use are very good like that but if I attend the doctor it's €40. I run a bill with them which I pay at the end of each year I even get a Christmas card of the hoors but like vanderbadger they have a TOTAL monopoly in my area, I actually think we use the same crowd.

As for alternatives I would be very happy to hear them, the last heard test I had was up on €700 no alternative there, I have no bother in trimming hooves, squeezing weanlings etc but sometimes you have to get em.

To John F yea totally agree with you about the individual relationships, there was a blond girl here for a while and I'd say she was the best vet even in the area, no bull**** about the woman and very helpful but still very expensive

massey woman wrote: »

I have to say that vets generally give an excellent service
In fact better than the HSE provide for humans
You pay for what you get
Remember what the chippy and blocklayer were getting without 580 points and seven years study
Most vets are farmers sons and all know theres no margin in farming
Its a hobby that takes a good job to maintain like all hobbies so be prepared to support financially
Alternatives are a plenty

maidhcII

irishh_bob wrote: »

nothing left to show after he pays for his diesel , what does your vet drive , a humvee :eek:

What is a fair callout for a vet? Assuming he drives himself, takes a full 40 mins driving time (20 mins each way) and 40 mins on the farm between everything.

Go to a doctor and pay €40 (generally €60). You spend 10 mins inside and the doctor doesn't have to leave the comfort of his surgery. In the time the vet will have earned his €50 the doctor will most likely have upwards of €300 earned and probably closer to €500.

massey woman

irishh_bob wrote: »

so getting 590 points in your leaving cert ( free college to follow ) gives you licence to charge outrageous prices , along with doctors ( another clique) they have not dropped thier fees a cent since the rescession began

Sorry Bob dont totally agree with you "(free college to follow)"

All our children went to 3rd level and we paid for them because as PAYE workers unlike most farmers and self employed people

I am delighted we were able to do it and I can assure you there were sacrifices to ensure they achieved their potential

Last week I was back at the doctors again and for the 10 minutes max I
spent with him I forked out €60 and came away with a note for a consultant who will cost me a further €100 ,ie the Dr was unable to diagnose my condition

The vet who comes to my yard will treat my cattle for any illness without access to xrays/consultants for €50 call out fee plus meds
I personally feel he gives an excellent service and is accessible by mobile day and night for free consultation
Even if I am not there he will treat them

porscheman

irishh_bob wrote: »

so getting 590 points in your leaving cert ( free college to follow ) gives you licence to charge outrageous prices , along with doctors ( another clique) they have not dropped thier fees a cent since the rescession began

Where is the free college

Why should they drop the fees if they dont need to

Would you sell milk for 20 cent if you could get 40 cent

As for doctors they are cheap if you or a child needs one

irishh_bob

porscheman wrote: »

Where is the free college

Why should they drop the fees if they dont need to

Would you sell milk for 20 cent if you could get 40 cent

As for doctors they are cheap if you or a child needs one

3rd level is for all intents and purposes , free in this country and if your going to use that criteria when it comes to treating sick kids , why stop at 50 quid per visit , why not charge 500 per visit , its called blackmail

irishh_bob

maidhcII wrote: »

What is a fair callout for a vet? Assuming he drives himself, takes a full 40 mins driving time (20 mins each way) and 40 mins on the farm between everything.

Go to a doctor and pay €40 (generally €60). You spend 10 mins inside and the doctor doesn't have to leave the comfort of his surgery. In the time the vet will have earned his €50 the doctor will most likely have upwards of €300 earned and probably closer to €500.

one is a vet , the other is a doctor , pointless to compare the fees of different proffesions and services , apples and organges

maidhcII

irishh_bob wrote: »

i dont follow , one is a vet , the other is a doctor , apples and organges

as for whether the vet or the doctor earned thier fee , thats entirely subjective , wayne rooney might think he earns his 100 k per week

You used the comparison!

I'm just pointing out that vets fees are far from being extortionate, especially in light of the expertise and knowledge and training which they have.

irishh_bob

maidhcII wrote: »

You used the comparison!

I'm just pointing out that vets fees are far from being extortionate, especially in light of the expertise and knowledge and training which they have.

you can point anything out , its merley an opinion of yours , my opinion is that vet call out fees are obscenley high and so are the prices they charge for medicine , at least 30% higher than off other suppliers , in my experience

maidhcII

irishh_bob wrote: »

you can point anything out , its merley an opinion of yours , my opinion is that vet call out fees are obscenley high and so are the prices they charge for medicine , at least 30% higher than off other suppliers , in my experience

We will just have to agree to differ.

Our local vet is cheaper than Glanbia and other local suppliers for buying doses and the like.

leg wax

maidhcII wrote: »

We will just have to agree to differ.

Our local vet is cheaper than Glanbia and other local suppliers for buying doses and the like.

my vet was cheaper as well compared to glanbia and animal health shop

porscheman

irishh_bob wrote: »

3rd level is for all intents and purposes , free in this country and if your going to use that criteria when it comes to treating sick kids , why stop at 50 quid per visit , why not charge 500 per visit , its called blackmail

3rd leve is not free FACT

50 to 60 quid is a fair price were not talking about 500

You never answered my question Would you sell milk for 20 cent if you could get 40 cent for it

You sound like the type that if they did it for nothing you would want them to pay you for getting experience

BeeDI

maidhcII wrote: »

You used the comparison!

I'm just pointing out that vets fees are far from being extortionate, especially in light of the expertise and knowledge and training which they have.

Good, experienced farmers, also have an incredible amount of knowledge and capability, learned over a long time, and only capable of being passed on over a long time, to a willing trainee. Typical good farmer, is capable at a wide range of skills, from basic and specialized farming, crop and animal husbandry, building, basic plumbing and electrics, plant and machinery operation and maintenance, book keeping, office and records administration for the dept, etc,etc,etc,!
The buyers for his or her produce, dont exactly reflect that in market prices, do they?
Point being, that in the whole farming scene, there is no place for sacred cows. All suppliers of goods and services to farmers need to reflect in their prices, what farmers see reflected in the market price of farm produce.
That should include vets. Accountants is another area, that need to cut charges. They get the books presented to them, in a practically 90% complete fashion. They have a €5 per hour trainee, bang out a P&L and balance sheet. They look over it for 15 minutes, and charge an arm and a leg!!!
Practically ALL inputs sold by the co-ops are a HUMUNGUS rip off!! Kerry, being the case in point in my area. It's absolute daylight robbery, right accross the board, from feed stuff, to fertilizer, to animal medicines, to bits and pieces of hardware, etc.
Framers, need to not alone be not afraid to shop around, but make it a rule to shop around.

John_F

porscheman wrote: »

3rd leve is not free FACT

50 to 60 quid is a fair price were not talking about 500

You never answered my question Would you sell milk for 20 cent if you could get 40 cent for it

You sound like the type that if they did it for nothing you would want them to pay you for getting experience

in fairness 3rd level college is heavily grant aided, On the frontline last night a fella emailed in from east anglia that was educated in ireland for little money and now he is working in the uk workforce

The point about 20 cent over 40 cent is exactly our point, they are charging what they wish for some services

keep inn mind its 50 - 60 before they open the door and say good morning now, it all adds up after,

no comparasion with human health and animal health in my view even if the vet travels

@masseywoman: i dont see your point when you say "All our children went to 3rd level and we paid for them because as PAYE workers unlike most farmers and self employed people"

roadtripman

[QUOTE=
Framers, need to not alone be not afraid to shop around, but make it a rule to shop around.[/QUOTE]

Would second that, some farmes are in the habit of running to the local co-op grabbing what the need, put it on their account and worry about it another day, I was one such farmer up till a few years ago until I started to shop around for everything and it would shock you the different prices between places.

But as said earlier you build up a relationship with a vet, in our situation our local vets would not be the cheapest but offer a super service, 24/7, and if you settle your bill at the end of each month there is good discount.

Indubitable

haybob wrote: »

This has probably been discussed here before but I feel I have been robbed a few times just after forking out €150 for a difficult calving and paid €220 to get bullocks I bought dehorned (how they were let into the mart I don't know but they were cheap enough and I took a chance).

I just think they are awful expensive but you can’t do without em

I must say the is fiercely expensive. My local vet charged €90 for a C-section but i don't think he is in it for the money at this stage.

Luckily for me and my uncle i am going back to college to study veterinary science

irishh_bob

porscheman wrote: »

3rd leve is not free FACT

50 to 60 quid is a fair price were not talking about 500

You never answered my question Would you sell milk for 20 cent if you could get 40 cent for it

You sound like the type that if they did it for nothing you would want them to pay you for getting experience

if i get 40 cent for milk , its because the market has set the price at that level , vets and doctors do not operate within a free market , they are both highly regulated professions and anyway its a stupid question , a bit like your last paragraph

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

if i get 40 cent for milk , its because the market has set the price at that level , vets and doctors do not operate within a free market , they are both highly regulated professions and anyway its a stupid question , a bit like your last paragraph

Second that. Blind anti farmer opinions from the man in the porsche, are the order of the day.

agcons

Got the vet last Sun morn for breech calving with twins. Came in 20 mins, highly competent, 90 euro. Couple of weeks ago had a sick child on a week evening, no doctor on call, had to drive the sick child 25 miles to the nearest available midoc, spent 2 hours there and 60 euro, dr didnt know what was wrong, made same guesses as I had made myself and sent us home.(luckily was only a 24hr bug so sorted itself out). IMO the vet was far far better value and gave, as you would expect from an experienced vet,an excellent service

maidhcII

BeeDI wrote: »

Second that. Blind anti farmer opinions from the man in the porsche, are the order of the day.

No, he just questions the "groupthink" propagated by the IFA.

BeeDI wrote: »

Good, experienced farmers, also have an incredible amount of knowledge and capability, learned over a long time, and only capable of being passed on over a long time, to a willing trainee. Typical good farmer, is capable at a wide range of skills, from basic and specialized farming, crop and animal husbandry, building, basic plumbing and electrics, plant and machinery operation and maintenance, book keeping, office and records administration for the dept, etc,etc,etc,!
The buyers for his or her produce, dont exactly reflect that in market prices, do they?

Then he should put the invaluable skills he has learned to a more productive and remunerative business, or figure out ways to give his farm a unique selling point so he can get higher prices for his produce.

The vet sets his fees so he can make a decent enough living but not be so expensive that his clients won't avail of his services. Most farmers will keep on farming irrespective of whether or not they are making money.

porscheman

BeeDI wrote: »

Second that. Blind anti farmer opinions from the man in the porsche, are the order of the day.

I am not in a Porsche and am not anti farmer just anti whingers

irishh_bob

maidhcII wrote: »

No, he just questions the "groupthink" propagated by the IFA.



Then he should put the invaluable skills he has learned to a more productive and remunerative business, or figure out ways to give his farm a unique selling point so he can get higher prices for his produce.

The vet sets his fees so he can make a decent enough living but not be so expensive that his clients won't avail of his services. Most farmers will keep on farming irrespective of whether or not they are making money.

what an utterley ( IMO willfully naieve ) view of vetenery price setting practice , due to the nature of both farming and the service a vet provides , price rarely has anything to do with whether the farmer calls them out

irishh_bob

porscheman wrote: »

I am not in a Porsche and am not anti farmer just anti whingers

opinion = whinging , interesting , will leave it difficult to comment on anything on this forum in future without being branded as such , from debate on certain tractors to the weather :rolleyes:

mossfort

it must be a west of ireland thing but our vet charges 200 euros for a section . we had another vet who started working on a self employed basis for a local practice who charged 280 euros on a saturday evening for a section.
everybody was complaining about his ridicously high charges and he never left anyones yard without cash in his hand.
it got to a stage where the owner of the practice told him to move on.
i dont mind paying a fair price but theres a limit to what a farmer can afford to pay when the income from farming is so low.

John_F

porscheman wrote: »

I am not in a Porsche and am not anti farmer just anti whingers

jaaaeee... i wouldnt like to see ya with a man trying to get a discount so telling ya about all his worries :P

@maidhcII: Its farming.. we cant all differentiate in fairness, could we all be out selling cheese to housewives on a saturday morning or opening up the place to quad biking.

Some one call the vet and order a shot of cop on :pac:

mossfort

porscheman wrote: »

I am not in a Porsche and am not anti farmer just anti whingers

you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about farmers and their finances. if you are anti whinger why are you always whinging on here yourself?

maidhcII

John_F wrote: »

@maidhcII: Its farming.. we cant all differentiate in fairness, could we all be out selling cheese to housewives on a saturday morning or opening up the place to quad biking.

I think people need to be very judicious about when to call a vet, we generally wouldn't unless the animal was worth good money, and it was evident a vet was needed.

As regards cheese and quads, I really don't know, but people shouldn't work at a loss and expect everyone else to join in on the "fun".

mossfort

if you need to call a vet it has to be done. if you have to section a cow a vet has to be called or you will lose the cow and calf. you shouldnt have pay a ridicously high fee for the privilege.

John_F

maidhcII wrote: »

I think people need to be very judicious about when to call a vet, we generally wouldn't unless the animal was worth good money, and it was evident a vet was needed.

As regards cheese and quads, I really don't know, but people shouldn't work at a loss and expect everyone else to join in on the "fun".

ever here of riding out the losses there will be good times again like, what about the amount of businesses in ireland at the moment making a loss or breaking even, should they all quit aswell and extend our dole queues, raise unemployment etc etc. already too many manufacturing industries lost here

cant just pack up and walk away from a farm which was paid for in hard times and prior to that was fought for (my opinion before i get knocked down with abuse)... just not that easy, especially in this country with the ties of the land. Obviously loss making can only continue for so long

with regard to the vet's do ye get the bullet to any animal not making money

porscheman

mossfort wrote: »

you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about farmers and their finances. if you are anti whinger why are you always whinging on here yourself?

I am far from anti farmers believe me and i dont have any chip on my shoulder

I want farmers to make money like everyone else but most just seem to keep ploughing on regardless of a proper business structure and without any regard for making a profit It saddens me really

There is no point in everyone else that supplies farmers being blamed for over charging and the like when farmers are running a business that is losing money year after year the reason it sounds expensive is because a lot of farming businessis are not financialy viable

If something or someone is too expensive then change supplier thats how our business works nobody forces anybody to do business with suppliers or people that are expensive

Unfortunatly as i have said before if it cant pay the bills and return a decent living then pack it in and that is my view of every business

maidhcII

John_F wrote: »

ever here of riding out the losses there will be good times again like, what about the amount of businesses in ireland at the moment making a loss or breaking even, should they all quit aswell and extend our dole queues, raise unemployment etc etc. already too many manufacturing industries lost here

I have a business that is making a loss at the moment (apart from the farm which I run with my father). But I'm growing my customer base, and all going well we will be in profit within 12 months or less.

John_F wrote: »

cant just pack up and walk away from a farm which was paid for in hard times and prior to that was fought for (my opinion before i get knocked down with abuse)... just not that easy, especially in this country with the ties of the land. Obviously loss making can only continue for so long

I agree. I'd hate to see our farm sold and there is a long family history attached to it, however even though it is 120 acres of top quality land in Cork, it has never been able to sustain anything other than some of the family expenses, and we keep costs to the bone (I'm rebuilding an elderly wrapper for the 2010 silage season at the moment!)

John_F wrote: »

with regard to the vet's do ye get the bullet to any animal not making money

They are told to make their mind up by 6pm to get busy living or get busy dying!

theroad

How about this one? One of the calved heifers was well back on her milk yesterday morning and didn't look right so we kept her in and called the vet. He said it was a twisted gut, treated her accordingly; said he'd operate in the afternoon if her gut didn't move. Three hours later she was dead. Vet reckons her gut burst. Do I have any comeback? What's the story when they die under a vet's care? It even cost me €140 to get her taken away!

irishh_bob

porscheman wrote: »

I am far from anti farmers believe me and i dont have any chip on my shoulder

I want farmers to make money like everyone else but most just seem to keep ploughing on regardless of a proper business structure and without any regard for making a profit It saddens me really

There is no point in everyone else that supplies farmers being blamed for over charging and the like when farmers are running a business that is losing money year after year the reason it sounds expensive is because a lot of farming businessis are not financialy viable

If something or someone is too expensive then change supplier thats how our business works nobody forces anybody to do business with suppliers or people that are expensive

Unfortunatly as i have said before if it cant pay the bills and return a decent living then pack it in and that is my view of every business

your arch capatilist view of how farmers should operate is in sharp contrast to your apparent full support of the protectionist enviroment in which vets work

maidhcII

irishh_bob wrote: »

your arch capatilist view of how farmers should operate is in sharp contrast to your apparent full support of the protectionist enviroment in which vets work

As far as I am aware vets operate in a free market, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

@theroad: The test would be if the vet acted in a way so negligent that another vet would be willing to stand up in court and say that vets would never take the course of action he did. Pretty much the same test as for doctors, but while it may be worth spending 20k proving a case of medical negligence involving a person, you probably won't make it back on a calf!

irishh_bob

maidhcII wrote: »

As far as I am aware vets operate in a free market, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

@theroad: The test would be if the vet acted in a way so negligent that another vet would be willing to stand up in court and say that vets would never take the course of action he did. Pretty much the same test as for doctors, but while it may be worth spending 20k proving a case of medical negligence involving a person, you probably won't make it back on a calf!

just like with the doctor fraternity , the vetenery proffesion is regulated and in many ways a closed shop , one piece of evidence i would point to is that it is no longer possible to buy dry tubes or mastitis tubes off your local merchant and a prescription is needed to buy them from chemists etc

haybob

There seems to be a massive discrepancy in the fees people are paying I see one poster paying €90 for a c section I pay €200 for one, the market is not free where I farm I have no choice in who I get so I have no choice but to pay it

agcons

haybob wrote: »

There seems to be a massive discrepancy in the fees people are paying I see one poster paying €90 for a c section I pay €200 for one, the market is not free where I farm I have no choice in who I get so I have no choice but to pay it

The 90euro was for getting the first calf out hind legs first and then getting the second one out normally, not a c section.

Indubitable

agcons wrote: »

The 90euro was for getting the first calf out hind legs first and then getting the second one out normally, not a c section.

I had €90 for a c-section.
I think it was cheaper because i had the cow shaved, boiling water ready and other untensils at hand. Not to mention the fact that over 2500 euro went into his pocket last year from my herd alone.

Follow the Plan

I rang up a practise one day looking for a vet to come out to a sick calf or I could bring it in no prob(20miles), the response I got was 'did I realise that it was a Bank Holiday Monday' it was last May bank holiday weekend. This is from the vet on call from the practise. I let them know wat I thought of their seemingly ordinary job hours attitude towards their own job. And it's a pity as I'll never go back there even tho they have a vet who I find v good and easily approachable. Sum would make ya feel thick and have very little patience.



Btw who cares whether you went to college for 6 years. We'll all have to do our apprenticeship.

haybob

Sorry to misquote there agcons

agcons wrote: »

The 90euro was for getting the first calf out hind legs first and then getting the second one out normally, not a c section.