Proposed Road Bridge, Castletown Gates, Celbridge

The Raven.

TI63 wrote: »

Development isn't the issue.. The issue is where the development is happening and the type of development that is proposed. Sometimes it's just plain wrong - and no development at all is the only option.

Well said! It is a well known fact that there is an excessive amount of lands zoned for residential development in Celbridge. There are lots of other areas where this development could be catered for without destroying the valuable heritage.

TI63

Thanks Raven for the reply. My fault for not locating the second revised notification in the list of documents provided on the Kildare coco planning site. I had even read your post on the letter of agreement from the church, but hadn't grasped the full significance of it. Even the summary description of the development on the coco site has remained unchanged and is not in line with the new planning notice.

options

I agree that it should be possible to have development and retain our heritage.
However the planning application that is on the table now is not balanced. The images posted above clearly show that no regard has been given to Castletown , or indeed to Kildrought House . Kildrought House on the main street is open to the public and is of national importance. The location of the proposed bridge would destroy the setting of this house. Visitors to the house and rear garden would be in full view of traffic crossing the bridge. The rural setting necessary for this protected House would be destroyed. The wall around the parochial House would disappear along with the trees in this area. All of this will affect the setting of Castletown gates. (see Raven’s image above)

Toughers garage/Boylans while visible from Castletown ave, is set back on the Dublin Road. If you were to take the garage and the existing houses behind and place them directly in the Donaghcumper field adding on a few storeys, the impact on Castletown Ave would be far greater. The noise level from the HVG and busses in the field would ruin the experience of walking along the river bank in Castletown . The houses set back behind Toughers/Boylans are a good distance away and outside of the Donaghcumper Demesne Wall . Their impact is completely different to what is proposed in this application.

The Planners in KCC should have been able to create a balanced plan for our area. Zoning suitable locations for development, and directing traffic away from the town. It seems to me that their planning is lead by money and profits. The recent flooding in Sallins is a good example of the lack of care taken by KCC and our councillors when zoning lands and granting planning permissions. They simply see financial gain. The rest of us can just put up with the consequences, unless we object and let our views be known . With so many examples of recent bad planning around the country perhaps lessons might now have been learnt and maybe our voices will be listened to.

The Raven.

TI63 wrote: »

Thanks Raven for the reply. My fault for not locating the second revised notification in the list of documents provided on the Kildare coco planning site. I had even read your post on the letter of agreement from the church, but hadn't grasped the full significance of it.

No problem, TI63. I can see how it could have been confusing. Some people are not familiar with the Kildare Co. Council Planning procedures and the Further Information so, to avoid confusion, the leaflet was kept simple.

Even the summary description of the development on the coco site has remained unchanged and is not in line with the new planning notice.

That is normal practise with KCC. It does say on the initial window entitled 'Registration of Application', to the left of the 'summary description', that Further Information was received on 04/02/2010. All of the Further Information is available in the documents on the website. I have to say that I find it a very good website compared to other Co. Councils, apart from some delays in getting the info online.

It is always a good idea to go into the website and read the documents, although some may find it rather daunting.

The Raven.

The Raven. wrote: »

To object, simply write to: The Planning Department, Kildare Co. Council, Áras Cill Dara, Naas, Co. Kildare, before Thursday 18th March including the Planning ref. no. 09/665. If this is your first time to object to 09/665 include the statutory fee of €20. If you have already objected to 09/665, and have received a recent communication from KCC, there is no fee. Simply include a copy of the receipt from your initial objection to 09/665 You may wish to refer to the issues we have raised or to highlight others of your choosing. The application can be viewed at www.kildarecoco.ie, on the Online Planning Enquiries section.

Don't forget that the deadline is this coming Thursday 18th March. Objections can be delivered by hand up to 4 pm. tomorrow or Thursday.

I doubt if KCC will be open on Wednesday - St. Patrick's Day.

The Raven.

All the objections are in now. They will be online shortly. I don't know how many there are, but according to KCC there is a large amount.

CnaG

The noise level from the HVG and busses in the field would ruin the experience of walking along the river bank in Castletown

I did have to laugh a little at this: I think the OPW have done a fine job of ruining walks in Castletown already.

The Raven.

CnaG wrote: »

I did have to laugh a little at this: I think the OPW have done a fine job of ruining walks in Castletown already.

I know what you mean. I'm not sure why they are cutting down trees etc. I have heard that some of it is to open up views, and to restore the area to its original state as a designed landscape. I have to say that I preferred the more natural, rural setting rather than a neatly manicured parkland approach.

loveforcelbridg

the people that object to this are the same people who are complaining about teens hanging around estates & outside shops.
bye.

Davidth88

The Raven. wrote: »

I know what you mean. I'm not sure why they are cutting down trees etc. I have heard that some of it is to open up views, and to restore the area to its original state as a designed landscape. I have to say that I preferred the more natural, rural setting rather than a neatly manicured parkland approach.

Hi ,

I went on an interesting walk on the Sunday before St Patricks. it was led by the guy who is advising the OPW on the trees.

A lot of the big trees that have come down were deemed to be 'unsafe' and the H&S people were kicking up , he was actually a little miffed about it himself.
Some of the large single oaks are going to have to be fenced off as well.

You have to remember a lot of these trees were planted 200 odd years ago , and are basically coming to the end of their life cycle.

It doesn't help matters of course when you have little brats setting fire to them while getting drunk.

The Raven.

The OPW/Co. Council are also upgrading the sewerage and drainage system, I believe.

The burning of trees by the 'brats' is indefensible. They steal the rubbish bins of nearby residents, dump the rubbish out all over the place and set the bins on fire. This is a clear indication of their level of intelligence.

The Raven.

Planning Permission has been GRANTED for 09/665 (roads and services etc.) by Kildare Co. Council, with 51 conditions. The document is online. Some of these conditions are a bit ambiguous, so I will refrain from commenting on them until I have studied the document more thoroughly.

loveforcelbridg

Thank God.

The Raven.

It is not over yet - not by a long shot! They haven't given permission for the bridges. They have to put in two more Planning Applications for those. We didn't waste our time. There were over 260 Objections; many of these were from groups. Yes, there will be Appeals. As we said before, one can only appeal if one has already objected to KCC. That means the first objection to 09/665, and/or to the Further Information submission to the same. We have 4 weeks from now. I will get the exact date later.

All the documents are available for viewing at:

http://webgis.kildarecoco.ie/planningenquirysystem/MainFrames.aspx

For those who are not familiar with accessing the online files:
On the above website, type in the Planning number 09/665 and click 'Find'. On the top of the window that opens, click 'Documents'. All files are in the blue window that opens. To open them, click the numbers on the left. In the blue window, scroll down and across to access page 2. Scroll down and across again and you will find the GRANT of permission fourth from the bottom. The 51 conditions are at the end of this document.

The Raven.

It is my understanding that the deadline is the 27th April 2010 for an Appeal to An Bord Pleanala against Kildare Co. Council's decision to grant permission for 09/665 (roads and services etc.) I will confirm this shortly. The clock is ticking!

Celbridge

The Raven. wrote: »

It is my understanding that the deadline is the 27th April 2010 for an Appeal to An Bord Pleanala against Kildare Co. Council's decision to grant permission for 09/665 (roads and services etc.) I will confirm this shortly. The clock is ticking!

Celbridge is an historic town that is being badly let down by the KILDARE COUNTY COUNCIL public representatives. Those that are supposed to represent us the public.
Celbridge does not need this development, bridge or more useless trafficlights.
"Town Centres" around this country are the product of corrupt councilors and developers and have ripped out the heart of many villages and towns.

Rage against the machine NOW

Celbridge

The Raven.

Celbridge wrote: »

Celbridge is an historic town that is being badly let down by the KILDARE COUNTY COUNCIL public representatives. Those that are supposed to represent us the public.
Celbridge does not need this development, bridge or more useless trafficlights.
"Town Centres" around this country are the product of corrupt councilors and developers and have ripped out the heart of many villages and towns.

Rage against the machine NOW

Celbridge

I share your pain! We are indeed being let down by the majority of councillors. They just aren't listening to us. They have seen the hundreds of objections sent in by individuals and groups, yet they still cling to this blinkered course of action. They have even ignored the insightful advice of their own Conservation Officer, who recommended a refusal of permission for this horrendous planning application. Apart from him, there are only two KCC councillors who are capable of appreciating the wishes of the people of Celbridge to save their heritage town from this hideous destruction: Catherine Murphy and Padraig McEvoy. The others have literally sold us down the river. This is something we are unlikely to forget when it comes to election time!

The land at Donaghcumper needs to be dezoned back to agriculture and this planning application needs to be refused by An Bord Pleanala. Otherwise, to use your description, the heart of this beautiful town will be ripped out of it and trampled on, for the sole purpose of lining the pockets of a grasping developer. It beggars belief why those councillors are so hell bent on turning their backs on the people they are supposed to represent.

Celbridge

Help Save Celbridge. Follow Donaghcumper on Twitter or become a friend of Donagh Cumper on facebook. tell your friends and their friends and their friends.....Save Celbridge Now for generations to come. thank you

The Raven.

Celbridge wrote: »

Help Save Celbridge. Follow Donaghcumper on Twitter or become a friend of Donagh Cumper on facebook. tell your friends and their friends and their friends.....Save Celbridge Now for generations to come. thank you

There is also a thread on the Kildare Discussion Forum !!

http://campbells.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=900&page=1

The Raven.

There is an interesting article in today's Irish Times by Frank McDonald, Environment Editor.

Objections to road plan for Celbridge

Devondale has prepared a masterplan for an extension of Celbridge town centre consisting of multi-storey blocks with an “utterly inappropriate urban idiom”, according to planning consultant Jeanne Meldon, acting for the Celbridge Action Alliance.

“There is no justification or need for this development given that a regional retail centre is planned for the north Kildare area at Collinstown, between Maynooth and Leixlip, as part of the county development plan and Greater Dublin Area retail strategy.

“This development would pose a significant threat not only to Celbridge and to the demesne of Donaghcumper in which it is to be located, but also to Castletown House and demesne as the roads, and in due course the buildings, would be highly visible.”

Ms Meldon said the proposed traffic route, which would also carry buses and trucks, would run directly in front of Castletown’s gates, linking the new bridge with the existing Maynooth road, severing the connection between Castletown’s avenue and the main street.

“The development also comprises three junctions with the Dublin road and demolition of large sections of the demesne boundary wall,” she said, adding that this stone wall was a “very significant feature of the entrance to the historic village of Celbridge”.

The proposed road network and the town centre extension as envisaged would be “in direct conflict with the restoration work at Castletown” and would compromise the setting of other protected structures in the vicinity.

Ms Meldon’s submission to the council said the lands “are subject to flooding, as evidenced by the floods experienced in the Celbridge area in November 2009”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0419/1224268629276.html

Everything Jeanne Meldon says here is true. There are plenty of other places in Celbridge to build whatever is needed. This is the wrong location. Castletown, Donaghcumper, the Parochial House, and the area in front of Castletown Gates (surrounded by Protected Structures) must be protected from this inappropriate, horrendous development.

The Raven.

'The bridge & infrastructure appeal to An Board Pleanála must be by Tuesday 27th April. Once lodged, anyone can make written observations for up to another four weeks. There is a €50 charge per observation but joint/ group submissions are best and obviously cheaper. In order for voices to be listened to, it is critical that people submit to A.B.P. There are truly viable alternate bridge locations that will allow Celbridge develop sustainably and without the inherent traffic chaos design for the current proposal.'
Cllr. Padraig McEvoy

That is this coming Tuesday 27th April.

The Raven.

The grant of permission for the road bridge and services infrastructure etc. 09/665 has been APPEALED to An Bord Pleanala.

Altered state of mind

If Kildare County Council are so anxious to get people from one side of the river to the other side and the people don't want a bridge crossing the river why not put a tunnel under the river. In so doing they could avoid the sensitive heritage area around Castletown South and let the tunnel emerge at the Salesian roundabout. They could then provide a link between Hazelhatch Rail Station and Maynooth or Leixlip Rail Station.
This link line could serve Castletown North and South and many other stops along the way and take more cars off the road and out of the town .
This would have the opposite effect to the Proposed Bridge and at the sime time avoid damaging so much architectural and natural heritage.
The original developments proposed by Devondale could be moved to a site that would have a less negative impact on the environment and easier access to this new link route. Then there would be no reason why the lands at Donaghcomper Could not be dezoned.

w@ll3gurl

Slightly off topic, but does Celbridge action alliance have a website? Thanks

Just got mail from Catherine Murphy about the gathering on saturday at the gates, great to see something like this being organised. I will pass it on to as many people as I can tomorrow.


ETA: found the website www.celbridgealliance.ie

agree with Altered about the dezoning. Heard them talking about something similar in Kerry on radio this morning

Davidth88

Hi

What gathering at the gates ?

I would be interested in attending

Thanks

The Raven.

Davidth88 wrote: »

Hi

What gathering at the gates ?

I would be interested in attending

Thanks

The Rally is on Saturday at 4. pm at Castletown Gates. Shelter and refreshments will be provided in the Slip Hall.

The campaign is to encourage people to write to Kildare Co. Council requesting that the boundary of the area to be protected in Map 12.10 of the Draft County Development Plan is amended and extended to include all of the Donaghcumper Demesne.

There is no fee involved. Just send your letter to Mary Foley, Administrative Officer, Naas Co, Kildare.

There will be speakers and live music at the Rally and it will be very informative. All who want to retain the wonderful setting of Castletown should come along.

Petition/letters are available in Lynches, Gabriel’s Butcher Shop and several other shops in the Celbridge. All you have to do is sign it and drop it in the box provided.

There is more information on the Celbridge Action Alliance website and on the 'Save Celbridge' Facebook site, on the following links.

www.celbridgealliance.ie

http://th-th.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=112356912728

Castletown

Thanks Raven, I will definitely go along. I signed the petition letter in Lynch's today. Could a copy of this be put onto the fourm?

The Raven.

If you wish to save Celbridge from the proposed Donaghcumper development, the following quote is the message from the submission slips that have been circulated in Celbridge and beyond. This message can be copied and pasted into an email or letter and sent as a valid submission to the Draft Kildare County Development Plan, following the Kildare Co. Council instructions below. (Don't forget to include the heading or make it clear that it is a submission on the Draft Kildare County Development Plan.)

Submission on Draft Kildare County Development Plan

I refer to Map 12.10 of the Draft Plan which shows an area of Castletown-Donaghcumper to be protected.

I request that the boundary of the area to be protected be amended and extended to include the whole of the Donaghcumper Demesne.

All the information about the County Development Plan are on the KCC website below. Here is a short extract giving details about making submissions.

Observations and submissions on the Draft Plan and/or Environmental Report may be made in one of the following ways:
• Write to: Mary Foley, Administrative Officer, Planning Department, Kildare County Council, Áras Chill Dara, Naas, Co. Kildare
• Email to: cdpsubmissions@kildarecoco.ie

All submissions should include your name and a contact address, a map (where appropriate) and, where relevant, details of any organisation, community group or company etc., which you represent.

Please make your submission by one medium only, i.e. hard copy or e-mail.

Notice of the preparation of the Draft County Development Plan 2011-2017
http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleases/PressReleaseTitle,22207,en.html

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/PreparationoftheDraftCountyDevelopmentPlan2011-2017/

NB. Obviously some people will want to write their own submissions.

Castletown

Raven it is great that it has been made so easy for us to make our submissions to KCC on the Draft County Development Plan.

The submisson letter in Lynches said just as you have quoted. I just signed it and put it in the box provided,

It is so easy as I don't have time to look for maps or at Development plans, but thanks to the work of others I could make my point regarding Donaghcumper. My submission letter simple said

" I refer to Map 12,10 of the Draft Plan which shows an area of Castletown-Donaghcumper to be protected,
I request that the boundary of the area to be protected is amended and protected to include the whole of the Donaghcumper Demesne."

Thanks to the work of Celbridge Action Alliance things are so easy for us. I really enjoyed the Rally , what a pity if this area is allowed to be spoilt.

Davidth88

Hi

I enjoyed the rally, very good. Prof Nolan is quite some speaker !!

Just a couple of points, virtually no one I know in Celbridge had heard of the rally.

Now I know you had posters up around the village part, but I saw little publicity on the Maynooth Rd side ( around Tescos etc ) .

There were a few very small ' posters ' attached to lamp posts near the interchange , but much too small , and not readable from cars.

You have to remember a significant proportion of people don't walk into the village on a regular basis .