Proposed Road Bridge, Castletown Gates, Celbridge

Castletown

I agree completely about the poster at Tesco's. I think that there should have been large posters all around Celbridge.

I suppose though, that there may be cost issues to be considered by the group and hopefully over the coming weeks people will come to know that there are submission letters available in the shops which can be signed. For an event that wasn't advertised the crowd was much bigger than I expected. They collected lots of signatures, and lots of people offered to help to collect more over the month of June.

The Raven.

Castletown wrote: »

Raven it is great that it has been made so easy for us to make our submissions to KCC on the Draft County Development Plan.

The submisson letter in Lynches said just as you have quoted. I just signed it and put it in the box provided,

It is so easy as I don't have time to look for maps or at Development plans, but thanks to the work of others I could make my point regarding Donaghcumper. My submission letter simple said

" I refer to Map 12,10 of the Draft Plan which shows an area of Castletown-Donaghcumper to be protected,
I request that the boundary of the area to be protected is amended and protected to include the whole of the Donaghcumper Demesne."

Thanks to the work of Celbridge Action Alliance things are so easy for us. I really enjoyed the Rally , what a pity if this area is allowed to be spoilt.

Castletown, the submission message that I posted earlier is the latest CAA amended version. It was amended to correct the grammar, and should read as follows:

Submission on Draft Kildare County Development Plan

I refer to Map 12.10 of the Draft Plan which shows an area of Castletown-Donaghcumper to be protected.

I request that the boundary of the area to be protected be amended and extended to include the whole of the Donaghcumper Demesne.

Castletown

It is good to see the boxes in the local shops filling up with lots of signed letters . Kildare County Council asked for submissions well it looks like that they will receive lots of input.

It will be interesting to see if they take notice of what is said in the submissions. If not you would wonder why they ask for public in put.

The County Manager stressed how important it is that communities play an active role in the formation of the County Development Plan, and encouraged people to submit. Well let's hope that his request was meaningful , as people will only engage if they feel that their views matter.

Altered state of mind

Castletown wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if they take notice of what is said in the submissions. If not you would wonder why they ask for public in put.

QUOTE]
They are legally obliged to invite submissions but the leglislation does not bind them to act on any or all of the submissions.

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Castletown wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if they take notice of what is said in the submissions. If not you would wonder why they ask for public in put.

They are legally obliged to invite submissions but the leglislation does not bind them to act on any or all of the submissions.

They couldn't be legally bound to act on all of the submissions. If they were, they would have to rezone land in favour of every would-be developer in the country. As it stands at present, they have a strong tendency in that direction as regards large developments.

However, the zoning is in the hands of the councillors who rely on getting elected by the public. If enough people voice their opinions by making submissions to the County Development Plan to protect Donaghcumper from development, the councillors will have to bear that in mind, or else loose a considerable amount of votes.

Castletown

Well considering the County manager made a point of stressing the importance of the public submissions , just maybe along with being a statutory requirement , who knows he just might be prepared to actually take notice? I live in hope!! If there are very large numbers they will have to pay some heed to what we say.

Altered state of mind

The Raven is right, the county councillors need to be made very aware of how the people stand on this issue. Afterall the majority of them voted in favour of the current zoning.

Castletown

I will leave my local councillor in no doubt as to how I feel.

The County Development Plan provides an opportunity for the councillors to act on the wishes of those that they represent. If they now fail to listen to those who have elected them well then it's " bye bye blackbird " my vote will go only to those who do listen .

I am sure the Councillors will all be made aware of all the submissions on this issue. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Signatures were being collected at Castletown Gates yesterday, and weather permitting all over the bank holiday weekend, and of course in the local shops.

The Raven.

Castletown wrote: »

The County Development Plan provides an opportunity for the councillors to act on the wishes of those that they represent. If they now fail to listen to those who have elected them well then it's " bye bye blackbird " my vote will go only to those who do listen .

Not this black bird! I'm neither a councillor nor a politician.

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

The Raven is right, the county councillors need to be made very aware of how the people stand on this issue. Afterall the majority of them voted in favour of the current zoning.

That is correct. They rezoned it in 2002 and recently voted to keep it that way; all except two independent councillors who have the integrity and the guts to stand up against the destruction of our invaluable heritage: Catherine Murphy and Padraig McEvoy.

The Kildare County Development Plan 2011-17, which is reaching the final stages of being processed, states:

13 Natural Heritage/Biodiversity

The conservation of our natural heritage is a key objective of Government which, through the National Heritage Plan, recognises that heritage is a communal and mutually shared asset to be protected by the actions of all. It sets out a clear and coherent strategy and framework for the protection and enhancement of Ireland’s national heritage with a core objective to protect national heritage as well as promoting it as a resource to be enjoyed by all.

12 Architectural and Archaeological Heritage

Aim: To protect, conserve and manage the archaeological and architectural heritage of the county and to encourage sensitive sustainable development so as to ensure its survival and maintenance for future generations.

Then they ignore all these fine words and give planning permission (in a covert manner, requiring a separate application), for this incongruous bridge:



to service the obnoxious future development viewed below from Castletown Lime Avenue:



which will totally obliterate the beautiful, unspoilt rural landscape viewed below from the same area on Castletown Lime Avenue:



Talk about hypocrisy! We need your support to stop this disaster!

Castletown

Thank God so many people have objected to An Bord Pleanala . I hope that the bord's decision will protect Celbridge. I know now what the Celbridge Action Alliance mean by their Slogan “ SAVE CELBRIDGE FROM DESTRUCTION.”

Thank God also for the recession. Had this of happened earlier we would be looking across at a spoilt landscape an another ghost town, like so many other ridiculous planning decisions, and inappropriate zonings that have left our country in a mess. Our councillors have a lot to answer for. Here’s hoping they will find away to sort out this mess and make sure that Castletown is not ruined by such a hideous development on it’s doorsteps.

w@ll3gurl

Castletown wrote: »

Our councillors have a lot to answer for. .

They sure do!! All the rot about creating jobs. A few hundred jobs, for a few measly months - at the expense of future generations & a beautiful landscape!!! It's disgusting and defies intelligence.

Raven, should we be writing to councillors as well in the meantime also?
I have my petition in and got a few more signed up and sent away as well.

The Raven.

w@ll3gurl wrote: »

Raven, should we be writing to councillors as well in the meantime also?
I have my petition in and got a few more signed up and sent away as well.

Good for you, w@ll3gur!! What you signed was actually a 'Submission' to the Kildare County Development Plan 2011-2017. You can also write your own Submission and send it. There is nothing in the KCC document that says otherwise. All they say is that each submission should be in 'one medium only, i.e. hard copy or e-mail'. All the details of the KCDP are on the following website:

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/PreparationoftheDraftCountyDevelopmentPlan2011-2017/

Draft County Development Plan 2011 – 2017
Public Consultation

Observations and submissions on the Draft Plan and/or Environmental Report may be made in one of the following ways:
· Write to: Mary Foley, Administrative Officer, Planning Department, Kildare County Council, Áras Chill Dara, Naas, Co. Kildare
· Email to: cdpsubmissions@kildarecoco.ie

All submissions should include your name and a contact address, a map (where appropriate) and, where relevant, details of any organisation, community group or company etc., which you represent.

Please make your submission by one medium only, i.e. hard copy or e-mail

YOU ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO MAKE YOUR SUBMISSION AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. CLOSING DATE FOR SUBMISSIONS IS 4.30pm SHARP ON MONDAY 28th JUNE 2010. LATE SUBMISSIONS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED.

If you find it too long and daunting, just write what you feel about protecting Donaghcumper, and the negative impact of the proposed development on Celbridge and Castletown demesne etc. made possible by the inappropriate rezoning of Donaghcumper from Agriculture to Retail/Commercial. Lobbying the local councillors is also a good idea. Here is the contact information available online in the public domain:

Cllr Kevin Byrne Byrnekevin1@eircom.net 086 6009449
Cllr Senan Griffin griffins@eircom.net 01 6285177
Cllr Paul Kelly paul.kelly@eircom.net 086 2560548
Cllr John McGinley mcginley@eircom.net 01 6285293
Cllr C. Murphy murphycatherine1@eircom.net 087 2696450
Cllr Colm Purcell cpurcelllabour@eircom.net 087 2539493

Castletown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYIFyRvlqM8 Check this out , a very intersting clip on Castletown / Donaghcumper, showing what could be lost if our councillors don't re think!

The Raven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYIFyRvlqM8

Thanks, Castletown. I have just watched the video and was about to post it. It is very well done and the photographs are great! It is getting a lot of hits on YouTube. It is very important to have this video to show people what is at stake. A special thanks is due to Cllr. Catherine Murphy for organizing this, and to those involved in producing it.

Davidth88

Good video !

The Raven.

Just a reminder that the closing date for submissions to the Kildare County Development Plan 2011-2017 is 4.30pm SHARP ON MONDAY 28th JUNE 2010.

The Save Celbridge Campaign is getting stronger every day. The more support there is the better the chance of stopping the developers from destroying our beautiful landscape and causing traffic chaos!

The two planning applications are still with An Bord Pleanala and it is not yet certain when they will make their decision. We live in hope!

Castletown

I was told today that the submissions are flying into Kildare County Council.

Castletown

An article in the Kildare Times dated Tuesday 15th states that over 1000 submissions have already been sent to KCC requesting that the Donaghcumper lands be protected in the County Development Plan 2011-2017.

In the same article a local politician claims that any move to de zone these lands could lead to a legal challenge from the land owner, which could bankrupt Kildare Council.

However according to the Planning and Development Act (no.30) Section 10 ;

“There shall be no presumption in law that any land zoned in a particular development plan (including a development plan that has been varied) shall remain so zoned in any subsequent development plan.”

The lands in question have not been granted planning permission as yet and so it would appear that perhaps they could be protected in the draft County Development Plan , if the will was there to do it , and sound legal advice sought by the county manager .

Like in other parts of the country it would be great if this could be resolved, and Castletown /Donaghcumper lands protected in the County Plan as of course they should be.

The Raven.

Castletown wrote: »

In the same article a local politician claims that any move to de zone these lands could lead to a legal challenge from the land owner, which could bankrupt Kildare Council.

And who rezoned the Donaghcumper lands in the first place in 2002 :rolleyes:??

If these lands had been allowed to remain zoned for agriculture, there would now be no danger of any compensation claim which 'could bankrupt Kildare County Council.' What goes around, comes around :eek:!!

w@ll3gurl

Sure the country & council are bankrupt already as is I'm sure the developer so 50% of zero is still zero. Haha

seriously though, the video is great and really hits the nail on the head in terms of what this is all about. Pity it can't be broadcast on the news or that Nationwide programme or something. I'm sure people in other regions would back us if only they knew what destruction was planned for our area.

On a summer evening like last night it really hits home, sitting out being able to hear birds singing and all ...Celbridge getting too built up will destroy that. There are so many issues! Even that maynooth road being able to handle extra traffic heading to the bridge, it'd be a nightmare traffic jam on the maynooth road.

I just can't get over how people think it's acceptable to build on or anywhere around historical sites like donaghcumper or Castletown. If you think of Versailles and windsor, those places are being preserved carefully from now on mistakes have already been made but at least they are preventing any more.
These areas are economic assets in terms of tourism.

Everyone should lobby councillors as well, let the lowlifes who greedily support this, know what we think. Except of course C Murphy and P Mcevoy who are against it also.
There are plenty of other places to build shops & apartments, and already a few empty retail units/apartments in the locality. When you see the empty space over at Tesco in Maynooth!! Yeah you can build a new 'centre' but most business dont have the money to expand & become tenants, let alone get enough people to fill residential dwellings.

Besides, there is another town centre thing on the way in Collinstown near Leixlip.

Altered state of mind

This is Jorn Gormleys reply to a written question on the issue of compensation.


Written answers

Tuesday, 23 March 2010

John Gormley (Minister, Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Dublin South East, Green Party)
Section 10 (8) of the Planning and Development Act 2000 states that there shall be no presumption in law that any land zoned in a particular development plan (including a development plan that has been varied) shall remain so zoned in any subsequent development plan. Section 13 (1) of the Act provides that a planning authority may make a variation to a development plan which is in force and this could, inter alia, include changes to zoning objectives.
There are no provisions for compensation to landowners in the event of any changes to the zoning designations of their lands as part of the development plan process. http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-03-23.2354.0

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

This is Jorn Gormleys reply to a written question on the issue of compensation...

Thanks ASM, but the link doesn't work !

Altered state of mind

The Raven. wrote: »

Thanks ASM, but the link doesn't work !

Hopefully it works now .
http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-03-23.2354.0

Altered state of mind

Meanwhile in Kerry they say their is no question of compensation.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1120/1224259179300.html

Altered state of mind

Maybe its time to take this campaign to national level and to the Minister.
As most of the local councillors are not listening to the people perhaps this should be brought to the Minister of the Environments attention.



Development Plan (Part II of the P & D Act 2000)
7. Role of the Minister
Although the councillors have the function of deciding on the form and content of the development plan for their area, the Minister for the Environment has a general supervisory jurisdiction in the matter.
He may also require a planning authority to vary its development plan in a specified manner. Neither of these powers has ever been used. However, Berna Grist in her book Introduction to Irish Planning Law tells the story of the Minister of the time, Brendan Howlin, and Kildare County Council. Kildare in the 1990s was rezoning large tracts of agricultural land for housing around the main Kildare towns – Johnstown (52 acres), Kilcock (200 acres), Clane (120 acres) and Maynooth (280 acres). The residents felt this would destroy the character of these towns (similar debates are happening everywhere now!), they wrote and asked the Minister to reverse these decisions. He didn’t do this, but he did write to the council asking them to defer further rezonings until the council had prepared a strategy for the future development of the county as a whole. This was a first and sent out the message: plan appropriately, remember it’s the Government who allocates your infrastructural funding, which services all these houses.
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2006/11/irish-development-plan-and-its-material.html

Castletown

I read in the Liffey Champion that thousands are supporting the campaign to protect Donaghcumper.

Bernard Durkan attended the Rally. Surely there must be away to protect these lands. I agree completely with contacting the minister regarding the Development Plan for Kildare. What ever legislation needs to be amended to protect these lands without threat of compensation must urgently be put in place. This needs to be sorted out now at ministerial level. I think this campaign should be brought to the minister's doorsteep.

Castletown

The fact that KCC have granted permission to the developer makes this case complicated. However if An Bord Pleanala overturns this decision that could open the way forward for dezoning. Lets hope the bord refuses permission for this development.

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Maybe its time to take this campaign to national level and to the Minister.
As most of the local councillors are not listening to the people perhaps this should be brought to the Minister of the Environments attention.

It is indeed time to bring this to the attention of the Minister. We keep getting the same worn out mantra from KCC that:

The residential and retail / commercial zoned land in Donaghcumper cannot de downzoned to amenity as this may leave the Council open to a compensation claim as the provision in the Planning and Development Act 2000 for downzoning is more robust for actual development plans. [Cited from the Manager's Report on Submissions to the current Celbridge Local Area Plan.]

But, according to Green Party TD, Ciaran Cuffe (May 2010), '...councils forced to de-zone land for 800,000 homes will not have to pay compensation to developers. This was removed in the 2000 Planning and Development Act.'

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/land-rezoned-for-800000-more-homes-than-needed-2162366.html

The councillors need to explain clearly to us why they think otherwise, instead of treating us as if it is none of our business!

The Raven.

The video is doing well on YouTube. It is getting a lot of hits!