Proposed Road Bridge, Castletown Gates, Celbridge

w@ll3gurl

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0622/breaking7.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0622/planning.html

Do you think with this news today, there is any chance of a review like this for Kildare County council?
Particularly since our pre-draft Kildare County Development plan 2011 – 2017, have mandatory objectives which include ‘preservation of the character of the landscape (preservation of views and prospects and the amenities of places and features of interest and natural beauty)’.
Surely Donaghcumper and its proximity to Castletown qualify?
On another note, it’s going to be scary waiting to see what An Bord Pleanala say - surely they cannot let the appealed planning applications go ahead, in view of what is in the Draft development plan.

The Raven.

Yes, I have seen that. Thanks for posting it, w@ll3gurl.

It has been discussed on the RTE News At One. It is gathering momentum. The Minister says ‘He will broaden the Report to other councils if complaints are received’. I think we need to move on this one as soon as possible!

The video clip is now online too:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0622/planning.html

Castletown

The last day for submissions to the draft County Development Plan is next Monday 28th. With thousands of people asking that Donaghcumper be protected surely our councillors will listen and vote for the protection of this land. I believe there are several thousand submissions, that's a lot of votes for Catherine Murphy. Fair play to her, she is very active on this issue, I saw her on the Main Street and up around Castletown. Where are the rest of our councillors ???
I am still hoping that the Bord will get it right on this one, and open the way for dezoning, at least some of the land in question.

Seconds Away

w@ll3gurl wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0622/breaking7.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0622/planning.html


On another note, it’s going to be scary waiting to see what An Bord Pleanala say - surely they cannot let the appealed planning applications go ahead, in view of what is in the Draft development plan.

Developers have a 28% success rate when they appeal as against a 39% success rate for third party appeals. Of the total number of appeals An Board Pleanala upholds between 72% and 61% of council decisions. If I were a betting man I would put my money on Devondale, only probelm is the odds would probably be very small.

w@ll3gurl

http://twitter.com/SenDavidNorris


A tweet about our plight. Will highlight the issue to other followers on the service. Senator Norris rocks!!

The Raven.

Two new videos from TheRothwiler on YouTube. Well done Rothwiler, whoever you are !! Great to see someone using their imagination to support the cause!

Castletown

Raven , Thanks so much for that I relly enjoyed it, The words of the songs say it all . When I saw the skelton all I could think of was our councillors. Still hoping that they will see the light. Well done to whoever put it together.

Altered state of mind

Thanks for the links to the videos raven.
Regarding the councillors seeing the light I think they will have to be shown the light as some of them seem to have a "blinkered" view of the importance of Donaghcomper and Castletown. Isn't it amazing how they could cohost a two day building conservation seminar in Castletown House whilst at the same time allowing such an incongruous and damaging developement to take place in its environs.

w@ll3gurl

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Thanks for the links to the videos raven.
Regarding the councillors seeing the light I think they will have to be shown the light as some of them seem to have a "blinkered" view of the importance of Donaghcomper and Castletown. Isn't it amazing how they could cohost a two day building conservation seminar in Castletown House whilst at the same time allowing such an incongruous and damaging developement to take place in its environs.

You are so right Altered - i nearly fell off my chair when i read an article about that 'conservation' event (it was in some newspaper talking about upcoming events)

and wait for it...... check this link out. They are truly on another planet!!

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Heritage/LinkToDocument,23073,en.pdf

And to quote from the above: Kildare County Council
Kildare County Council has a strong commitment to the
conservation and promotion of the county’s cultural heritage.
Kildare County Council employs a Architectural Conservation
Officer, Peter Black and a Heritage Officer, Bridget Loughlin
whose work ensures that there is an enhanced level of
understanding, conservation and preservation of the county’s
natural and built heritage. This exhibition is an action of the
County Kildare Heritage Plan.
RTE’s Nationwide will be reporting on the event.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious!!
Pity they don't listen to their Heritage officer! And a pity Nationwide don't do a piece on how Celbridge could be destroyed by developers! The more i think about it the more i can't believe it.
The gall of them!!

Seconds Away

I missed nationwide but have just watched it on the rte website. The more I look at it , and think about it , when you consider the description of Castletown and its importance you have to wonder how and why KCC ever contemplated granting planning permission for this illfitting and unwanted development

Here is the link to the nationwide report. There are two sections on Castletown House with a piece about Fota in the middle.

http://http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0628/nationwide_av.html?2778954,null,228

[URL]http://javascript:playClip(2779001,null,228)[/URL]

Notice nobody from KCC was interviewed. ?????

Seconds Away

Those links appear to be broken try this instead it will bring you to the Nationwide page and the links to the report are on it.

http://www.rte.ie/news/nationwide/[PHP][/PHP]

Castletown

Thanks seconds Away ,I really enjoyed that. It is great to have such an amenity in Celbridge. Considering the restoration works are only at an early stage, we can only imagine the wonderful walks etc that will be reinstated in time. A lot to look forward to not to mention the tourist potential. It would be great to see our main street get a facelift and attract Castletown tourist to visit interesting buildings around Celbridge on a Tourist trail. That’s the way to go. We really have something unique here, lets hope nobody spoils it, in the words of the song in the video clip with " Tar and Cement."

Altered state of mind

Thanks to you all for the links to those interesting videos.
Whats the possibility of forming an advisory committee , like these guys did in America [1], and getting it approved and accepted by KCC. Like the campaign in America I believe that the vision for Donaghcomper/Castletown/Celbridge should be community driven not led by the council/developers.

[1] Members and supporters of Burlington Save Our Waterfront achieved a major victory for community engagement Monday, as city council unanimously passed the Burlington Waterfront Access and Protection Advisory Committee. As soon as we get information on how you can apply to serve on this committee, we’ll post it here.

http://abetterburlington.ca/save-our-waterfront/update/

Their goals are similar to ours .

Altered state of mind

We need a Mayor like this :

Burlington mayor wades in with citizen advisory committee

January 22, 2010
KEN PETERS
THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
Cam Jackson wants to bring his people to the water.
Stung by suggestions that Burlingtonians had little input into a problematic $9.2 million Brant Street pier project, the Burlington mayor wants a waterfront citizens advisory committee struck.
"I hear a lot of concerns out on the street about the fact the pier was first decided by council on Feb. 5, 2001, darn near nine years earlier. And nowhere has there been citizen participation in this," Jackson said.
He said the citizen advisory committee will be responsible for coming up with a future vision for the city's waterfront.

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Thanks for the links to the videos raven.
Regarding the councillors seeing the light I think they will have to be shown the light as some of them seem to have a "blinkered" view of the importance of Donaghcomper and Castletown. Isn't it amazing how they could cohost a two day building conservation seminar in Castletown House whilst at the same time allowing such an incongruous and damaging developement to take place in its environs.

I totally agree. It is sheer hypocrisy! The Architectural Conservation Officer of KCC, who gave a talk at the exhibition, was totally against the proposed development but KCC ignored his report and gave planning permission regardless.

I watched the Nationwide video and was stunned by the breathtaking images of Castletown House. It really is magnificent! KCC also gave planning permission for the other conglomeration of ugly modern houses in full view of the Castletown House on the opposite bank of the river, in spite of the protected views in that direction. It beggars belief!!

I like Nationwide and their video was good, although I wasn't too impressed with the opening line describing 'Castletown House in Kildare'. She didn't say 'County Kildare'. Anyone would think that it was in the town of Kildare. I don't remember hearing one mention of Celbridge in the whole video, but I could have missed it. I must have another look.

The Raven.

w@ll3gurl wrote: »

You are so right Altered - i nearly fell off my chair when i read an article about that 'conservation' event (it was in some newspaper talking about upcoming events)

and wait for it...... check this link out. They are truly on another planet!!

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Heritage/LinkToDocument,23073,en.pdf

And to quote from the above: Kildare County Council
Kildare County Council has a strong commitment to the
conservation and promotion of the county’s cultural heritage.
Kildare County Council employs a Architectural Conservation
Officer, Peter Black and a Heritage Officer, Bridget Loughlin
whose work ensures that there is an enhanced level of
understanding, conservation and preservation of the county’s
natural and built heritage. This exhibition is an action of the
County Kildare Heritage Plan.
RTE’s Nationwide will be reporting on the event.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious!!
Pity they don't listen to their Heritage officer! And a pity Nationwide don't do a piece on how Celbridge could be destroyed by developers! The more i think about it the more i can't believe it.
The gall of them!!

Wall3gurl, all KCC's Development Plans are full of those types of statements claiming their 'strong commitment to the conservation and promotion of the county’s cultural heritage'.

In the same documents they contradict all of this by planning to impose an incongruous modern ‘town extension’ into a historic designed rural landscape, and the protected views of Castletown House, the 'finest Palladian house in the country', overshadowing and destroying the special character of a beautifully crafted Georgian village,

It should be noted that this ‘town extension’, as shown in the maps, is much larger than the entire village of Celbridge! This is sheer lunacy:rolleyes:!!

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Whats the possibility of forming an advisory committee, like these guys did in America and getting it approved and accepted by KCC. Like the campaign in America I believe that the vision for Donaghcomper/Castletown/Celbridge should be community driven not led by the council/developers.

Interesting idea. Not sure how it would work. The people of Celbridge certainly should have more control over what happens to the town in which they live.

soulsearcher

I can't see Kildare County Council allowing something like this and even if they did they would not listen to such a committee. They do not listen to their own experts unless it suits them. We are unfortunately saddled with a council that has no interest in or concern about the wishes of local people. Apart from two councillors the elected representatives don't listen either.
But I suppose democracy Irish style is about as good as it gets

Castletown

The planners may not want to listen, but the councillors and TDs will want votes, so I would think that if legislation allows for this land to be protected the TDs will go with the people. A lot of this depends on what an Bord Pleanala have to say. The planners might be left in a very lonely place if they are seeing to be dancing to a developers tune simply for rates . They are obliged to protect the local heritage and not come up with plans that are contrary to the heritage policies outlined in the County Development Plan. No wonder local authorities are now in trouble for not adhering to their own objectives.

The Raven.

soulsearcher wrote: »

I can't see Kildare County Council allowing something like this and even if they did they would not listen to such a committee. They do not listen to their own experts unless it suits them. We are unfortunately saddled with a council that has no interest in or concern about the wishes of local people. Apart from two councillors the elected representatives don't listen either.

Yes, that would seem to be the case. Apart from two councillors and the Architectural Conservation Officer, they seem hell-bent on destroying the unique character of Celbridge and the protected views of Castletown.

Castletown

Well I hope that common sense will prevail. No point in being too negative , or we may as well stop writing about this issue.
I think that there is still hope. With no money around there is time to take stock and look at all of this again! We should be trying to convice our councillors to rethink, instead of convicing ourselfs that they never will. Perhaps I need a reality check, but you know what they say " God loves a trier".

Castletown

Great News;
An Bord Pleanala have refused planning permission for the Donaghcumper housing estate opposite Castletown as it would impact negatively on Castletown Demesne, impact negatively on the Liffey Valley, and on ecology, Well done to all those who fought this development. There is a GOD!

Davidth88

GREAT NEWS !!!!!!!


What about the bridge etc, or is that another fight for another day ?

scheister

surely enough the bridge is pointless now and will be refused. If it is bulit where is it going

The Raven.

There is a lot of rejoicing today with this REFUSAL. Well done to everyone who supported this cause and especially to those who put in the time and effort to bring about this result. The good news is already on An Bord Pleanala's website:

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/233937.htm

Davidth88 wrote: »

GREAT NEWS !!!!!!!What about the bridge etc, or is that another fight for another day ?

David, the proposed bridge etc. are the subject of a different Appeal due to be decided by 25-08-2010.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/236613.htm

scheister wrote: »

surely enough the bridge is pointless now and will be refused. If it is bulit where is it going

Scheister, the vehicular bridge would be to serve the proposed future 'town extension', which would have had road linkages to the refused housing development opposite Castletown House. It would be built through the garden of the Parochial House on the corner at the Slip, in front of Castletown Gates and Christ Church.

soulsearcher

Well done to all concerned.

Altered state of mind

Fair play to the Celbridge Action Alliance according to the Liffey Champion they delivered almost 5000 submissions to KCC.

Altered state of mind

Castletown wrote: »

Great News;
An Bord Pleanala have refused planning permission for the Donaghcumper housing estate opposite Castletown as it would impact negatively on Castletown Demesne, impact negatively on the Liffey Valley, and on ecology, Well done to all those who fought this development. There is a GOD!

And a Goddess :

http://www.kildare.ie/community/CatherineMurphy/2010/07/bord_pleanala_decision_on_dona.html
I am absolutely delighted with An Bord Pleanala's decision to reject Kildare County Council’s permission for a housing estate within Donaghcumper Demesne. I was one of a number of people/organisations who appealed the decision. Together with Cllr’s Mary Glennon and Tony McEvoy I also opposed the rezoning of the land back in 2002.
Just as those who created the wonderful 18th Century designed parkland in the connected demesnes of Castletown, Donaghcumper & St Wolstans showed great vision; I believe Bord Pleanala has taken a courageous and visionary decision by helping to ensure this stunning landscape is not destroyed .....
.....Celbridge is rightly very proud of its Historic Town, the centrepiece of which is Castletown House and its associated neighbouring demesnes. This decision opens up a window of opportunity to focus on the kind of town Celbridge can become, where 21st century needs are met, without compromising the amazing heritage of this town.

Castletown

The bridge is part of a separate application , with a decision expected later. But given today's decision on the proposed houses opposite Castletown House, and the reasons for refusing same, the bord have laid down a clear marker regarding development that impacts on Castletown . The proposed route of the road infrastructure /bridge would also impact on Castletown, so I don't see that it will now be allowed to happen, and definitely not the hideous development shown on this forum opposite Castletown Avenue,The Celbridge Action Alliance have managed to ensure that this area is protected from development. Something our planners should have ensured.

The Raven.

One cannot speculate on the outcome of the other Appeal against the proposed road bridge etc. It is up to An Bord Pleanala to make that decision. One can only hope that it will also be refused.

However, Catherine Murphy is absolutely right in saying that An 'Bord Pleanala has taken a courageous and visionary decision by helping to ensure this stunning landscape is not destroyed...' For this, An Bord Pleanala deserves to be commended.