Would you like a Sub forum for the Superthreads..?

Dont be at yourself

Dub13 wrote: »

Users who currently post in the super threads will continue to post in them,regardless of were they are.One of the safe guards against this new sub forum taken away from the main soccer forum is that you will not be able to start a new thread in the forum.

But really, what's the difference between a sub-forum for superthreads and a sub-for individual teams? There could still be safe-guards where you couldn't post general soccer threads in the forum, but it would organise discussion of club-specific topics much better than a sprawling superthread.

I agree they are had to follow but they do serve a purpose,some people love them some hate them I think this proposal is a happy compromise.

They don't really serve a purpose. Discussions happen in spite of them, not because of them. They're ill-suited to debating multiple topics at once. We're all too familiar with threads being derailed by a single issue, often a single back-and-forth flame war. It'd be nice to be able to discuss - for example - Rafa's tactics, the yanks, SOS and the youth team prospects concurrently, without one drowning out all the other.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The decision shouldn't be made / not made on the basis of a simple majority vote in a thread poll for many obvious reasons. And that goes for any discussion in relation to forum policy change.

Yeah, but just in case, the more no voters, the better.

LuckyLloyd

Dub13 wrote: »

I should have said it will be done in consultation with the Admins as it would be a major change in the forum they will need to be brought into the loop.

They only come into the loop if you decide to make a change and invite them in. As such, the ultimate decision on whether or not to do this rests with you and the other members of the mod team. And to that end, a public poll is not a great item to throw into your decision making process imo. People like clicking buttons, and caring about the issue or understanding it are not essential for them to do so.

Dub13

No

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

But really, what's the difference between a sub-forum for superthreads and a sub-for individual teams? There could still be safe-guards where you couldn't post general soccer threads in the forum, but it would organise discussion of club-specific topics much better than a sprawling superthread.

There is a thread going in feedback about this so I don't want to comment on it here.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

They don't really serve a purpose. Discussions happen in spite of them, not because of them. They're ill-suited to debating multiple topics at once. We're all too familiar with threads being derailed by a single issue, often a single back-and-forth flame war. It'd be nice to be able to discuss - for example - Rafa's tactics, the yanks, SOS and the youth team prospects concurrently, without one drowning out all the other.

Weather they work or not is not relevant to this thread,they are a fact on the forum for the time being,this is a proposal to deal with them and try and keep everybody happy.

Bounty Hunter

one of the main reasons i come to this board is the check the Villa thread. I contribute in other threads but i often only notice them cos i was having a look at the villa chat. If it was moved to a superthread forum i think the amount of times I and other like minded folk visit the main soccer board would be cut by a good margin and thus posting would drop and with it discussion of all sorts. Dont know if me posting here would make much difference to people but if others were like minded it could hurt what is a great board to read. Far better imo than most others and i enjoy reading the opinions of all sorts of fans in threads which is what you get here.

Dub13

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They only come into the loop if you decide to make a change and invite them in. As such, the ultimate decision on whether or not to do this rests with you and the other members of the mod team. And to that end, a public poll is not a great item to throw into your decision making process imo. People like clicking buttons, and caring about the issue or understanding it are not essential for them to do so.

A admin would have to answer whether they would just take the soccer mods advice or not on this.For a major change in one of the sites biggest forums,I would personally like to bring them on board early.

LuckyLloyd

Dub13 wrote: »

A admin would have to answer whether they would just take the soccer mods advice or not on this.For a major change in one of the sites biggest forums,I would personally like to bring them on board early.

This is still pretty muddled to be fair, the Admin team didn't suggest this change. As such, they don't have to take any advice on anything if the consensus amongst you lot is that there is no need for structural change to the forum.

I am of course aware that you have been angling to do this for some time, and you will know that I have been steadfastly against ANY splitting out of the forum any time it was raised. For me the key is in the fact that you described the change as "major" above. I do believe that it would set the forum towards something that is very different to the soccer forum on boards.ie as we currently know it. The place has problems, but this change would only serve to undermine its biggest strengths.

And finally as for whether to embark down such a road or not, such a decision should be made by those who understand the forum the best. And those people are the current mods. It shouldn't be left to Admins who pop their head in here occasionally, nor should it be left to a vox pop of the users as they often will not (nor should they be expected to) think outside of their own preferences in terms of the forum they'd like to inhabit.

astrofool

I'd disagree with almost everything LuckyLloyd has said above. If the soccer mod/admin team had the wherewithall to do it, the soccer forum would have been subdivided in some way years and years ago, and have a much larger community as a result. As it is, more have left than have stayed, and we get the same tired arguments week after week in the superthreads dominating the forum.

leninbenjamin

Posted my opinion on this in the feedback thread, should have probably posted it here in the first place.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I see the other proposal is to split the superthreads off into a new sub forum. But I can't see how that will make much difference either. You're effectively splitting the existing community right down the middle between those who want to engage outside their own team and those who don't. It'll make the main forum appear neater but I don't think will change the dynamic of the forum much tbh. All I see it offering is worst of both worlds, the insularity of team sub forums coupled with the factionalized match day discussions.

Jazzy

no. im finding it more interesting watching people dribble on their keyboards

Dub13

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is still pretty muddled to be fair, the Admin team didn't suggest this change. As such, they don't have to take any advice on anything if the consensus amongst you lot is that there is no need for structural change to the forum.

But thats the thing there is no consensus amongst the soccer mods,I am not sure what that means maybe its a bad idea but about 50% of the forum seem to like it.

On the thread going on feedback a Admin suggested we put this to a vote on the forum,thats what prompted me to post this.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I am of course aware that you have been angling to do this for some time, and you will know that I have been steadfastly against ANY splitting out of the forum any time it was raised. For me the key is in the fact that you described the change as "major" above. I do believe that it would set the forum towards something that is very different to the soccer forum on boards.ie as we currently know it. The place has problems, but this change would only serve to undermine its biggest strengths.

In the main I am also steadfastly against splitting the forum,in saying that the super threads are holding the forum back IMO and this proposal would give the forum more room to grow.

astrofool

When any forum on the internet gets big enough to have the traffic to subdivide, they subdivide. I don't see what the soccer mods are doing trying to invent another solution when the simple solution already works around the world.

There is such a thing as overthinking a problem (and I wouldn't call the soccer mod team overzealous overthinkers in the first place).

daithijjj

I voted no.

I think having a match thread sticky (or whatever), where all match threads go would free up enough room. But thats all i would change.

LuckyLloyd

astrofool wrote: »

I'd disagree with almost everything LuckyLloyd has said above. If the soccer mod/admin team had the wherewithall to do it, the soccer forum would have been subdivided in some way years and years ago, and have a much larger community as a result. As it is, more have left than have stayed, and we get the same tired arguments week after week in the superthreads dominating the forum.

The objective has never been to have the largest community possible.

astrofool wrote: »

When any forum on the internet gets big enough to have the traffic to subdivide, they subdivide. I don't see what the soccer mods are doing trying to invent another solution when the simple solution already works around the world.

There is such a thing as overthinking a problem (and I wouldn't call the soccer mod team overzealous overthinkers in the first place).

The objective has never been to mimick what other soccer forums on the Internet do.

Mars Bar

No

Liam O wrote: »

personally I think that would be a better idea than moving the superthreads. Move match discussion to one forum and leave one for general discussion imo.

+1 on this.

Then 24 - 48 hours later, the thread is closed.

magma69

No

I would like to see it tbh. Sometimes there is much chat about the business end of things at a club which I have very little interest in. If there was a sub forum for clubs finances/income etc and maybe tactics/team selection etc and one for everything else I think it would make for a more specified conversation which would suit some people better.

Just my opinion, only speaking for myself.

copacetic

This is a laughable imo. The superthreads are holding the forum back? So putting them in a subforum without the ability to start thread is a solution? Rubbish, it's small minded and the clinging on mentality.

Either leave it as it is or sort it out properly, the reason the superthreads are 'holding the forum back' is that trying to keep all discussion in them forces them to be busy. The 'problem' was created by having superthreads, hiding them in a subforum but not allowing other discussion there is an incredibly random stop gap solution.

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The objective has never been to mimick what other soccer forums on the Internet do.

And thank god for that. The absolute drivel that get spouted on some of the Arsenal only sites embarrasses me.

astrofool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The objective has never been to have the largest community possible.

The objective has never been to mimick what other soccer forums on the Internet do.

I don't mention soccer forum, ANY forum on the internet, including those on boards have been through this and grown as a result, usually for the better.

If the main forum is getting cluttered by random cr*p super-threads (observe the punctuation carefully), then it needs to expand, I really don't understand why LOI doesn't have it's own forum for example, there's enough fans and traffic for it, and it'd be nice to have an LOI thread not descend into armchair/GAA fans arguments.

LuckyLloyd

astrofool wrote: »

I don't mention soccer forum, ANY forum on the internet, including those on boards have been through this and grown as a result, usually for the better.

If the main forum is getting cluttered by random cr*p super-threads (observe the punctuation carefully), then it needs to expand, I really don't understand why LOI doesn't have it's own forum for example, there's enough fans and traffic for it, and it'd be nice to have an LOI thread not descend into armchair/GAA fans arguments.

Are you suggesting that the soccer forum is not unique in character or nature as compared to other forums on the Internet? That there is nothing particular about the way the subject affects those interested in it (i.e. the amount of extreme emotion involved)?

jesus_thats_gre

Having sub forums to replace the superthreads strike me as making sense..

copacetic

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Having sub forums to replace the superthreads strike me as making sense..

that could make sense and I think it's what a number or people think they are voting for, but it's not what is being suggested.

What's being suggested is moving all the superthreads, to a 'superthreads' forum, where only superthreads would exist and no other threads could be created.

K-9

No

If it is just the Superthreads and there will be no option to add new threads, I don't see a problem.

8 of the threads on the first page are Super threads and Leeds just after it, 10 aren't.

Most who use them, will either have subscribed to them or will go to the new sub forum, so it shouldn't be a problem. All the super threads will be together which will be good to keep up on the latest club news as well.

Can't really see a problem other than fear of change.

sprinkles

For what it's worth, I voted no. If the front page is swamped I click on the > arrow at the bottom to move to page 2. Just as easy as clicking on the subforum link....

astrofool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the soccer forum is not unique in character or nature as compared to other forums on the Internet? That there is nothing particular about the way the subject affects those interested in it (i.e. the amount of extreme emotion involved)?

What exactly is your argument to the contrary here? Rather than try and goad me into statements you can refute, lay out your stall and fight that corner. You know first hand the extreme emotion that goes into the soccer forum, but I've seen this on lots of other forums.

kryogen

how can splitting be the way forward for the community?

alot of users come on to talk in their teams super thread and post on other threads that catch their eye, id they have no reason to come to the actual soccer forum and only visit their own teams thread then this place will be quieter, easier to manage, maybe, but something will be lost i feel

the super threads werent the best idea in the first place but now sweeping them under the rug is hardly the solution

i enjoy reading others opinions, i mean the opposing supporters who will frequent the United superthread, and i am sure they will not be around as much if we are segregated

i also like the front page the way it is, if a thread is interesting enough to posters here it will be posted in regularly and wont disappear from the front page, if a thread does move, then all you have to do is click the next page button and you have it! surely easier then having more sub forums

id be more open to the match threads being moved as has been mentioned, no harm in having them in a sub forum thats easily accessed as they will have a relatively short life span

PHB

I must say for years I've been against the idea of sub-forums, because I don't want to see the inter-club nature of discussion gone.

However, recently I have found that superthreads are becoming more and more difficult to follow due to the sheer volume of posts.

However, I don't see how putting Superthreads in a sub-forum would fix anything though. It would simply move them slightly. I don't think discussion is being stopped because the page is filled with superthreads. Then again, I don't really expect this move to make any real difference except adding another click to get to it.

I voted no, but still think the issue might need to be looked at.

PHB

Could I suggest, either way, if people think there's not enough space for threads, that you take the below threads off-sticky. Then there's 2 extra spaces.

****PLEASE READ**** Forum update from the mod team 15/11/09
Soccer Forum Hot Thread Links

LuckyLloyd

astrofool wrote: »

What exactly is your argument to the contrary here? Rather than try and goad me into statements you can refute, lay out your stall and fight that corner. You know first hand the extreme emotion that goes into the soccer forum, but I've seen this on lots of other forums.

My argument has been expressed numerous times over the past few years. The soccer forum we have here in its current format is genuinely unique relative to pretty much 95%+ of football forums on the Internet, and I am convinced it is better than 95% of football forums on the Internet because of that. Fans discussing their club with other fans of their club leads to the most stinted and pathetic chat. Any step towards splitting out and categorising the forum would be a significant step backwards in terms of the forum's overall quality.

Arguing that 'this is what other forums do you know' is a reason against doing it as far as I'm concerned. We should be looking at other football forums on the Internet and actively doing the opposite.

mike65

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Having sub forums to replace the superthreads strike me as making sense..

Have a look at this thread for that sort of thinking

Spiritoftheseventies

No

Dub13 wrote: »

I personally think yes this is a win win situation,if you don't like the super threads they are gone out of sight leaving the forum more room.And yes they can take up a lot of room on the main page.

I follow my threads via the User CP so I will be brought to the super threads I post in automatically,so it does not matter what forum they are in.

To be honest Dub13 there are far too many threads being opened. Thats just my opinion. Only way around it are sub forums for the big four forums (United, Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal). that would free up your thread space. You have my blessing whatever happens.

Mr Alan

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

To be honest Dub13 there are far too many threads being opened. Thats just my opinion. Only way around it are sub forums for the big four forums (United, Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal). that would free up your thread space.You have my blessing whatever happens.

hahahaha

Pro. F

No from me.

I spend the majority of my time on the soccer forum in the Man Utd thread but I really enjoy popping into other threads when they catch my eye.

If the superthreads were split off I would worry that the soccer forum would lose a lot of traffic from posters like me. The forum contributions would become less spontaneous and unpredictable imo, which would be a bad thing.

The subconscious effects of having all threads in one place should not be overlooked.

jesus_thats_gre

copacetic wrote: »

that could make sense and I think it's what a number or people think they are voting for, but it's not what is being suggested.

What's being suggested is moving all the superthreads, to a 'superthreads' forum, where only superthreads would exist and no other threads could be created.

Ah ok.. I personally think that a sub forum could be created to replace each super thread. The super thread was a good idea but the issue of the same stuff being discussed over and over again is a major issue in my opinion.

K-9 wrote: »

If it is just the Superthreads and there will be no option to add new threads, I don't see a problem.

8 of the threads on the first page are Super threads and Leeds just after it, 10 aren't.

Most who use them, will either have subscribed to them or will go to the new sub forum, so it shouldn't be a problem. All the super threads will be together which will be good to keep up on the latest club news as well.

Can't really see a problem other than fear of change.

It strikes me as a somewhat pointless change to just move them into a sub-forum.

Spiritoftheseventies

No

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Ah ok.. I personally think that a sub forum could be created to replace each super thread. The super thread was a good idea but the issue of the same stuff being discussed over and over again is a major issue in my opinion.



It strikes me as a somewhat pointless change to just move them into a sub-forum.

Agree with you there JTG in a way but as a means of arranging threads it seems a good idea to have the sub forums. Its all a bit messy at the moment. Btw great to have you back Lucky Lloyd. May be hope for this forum yet

Mitch Connor

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

To be honest Dub13 there are far too many threads being opened. Thats just my opinion. Only way around it are sub forums for the big four forums (United, Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal). that would free up your thread space. You have my blessing whatever happens.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

CHD

Mitch Connor wrote: »

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

Could have just thanked Mr Alan. The ganging up on SOTS is a bit ghey tbh.

Mitch Connor

CHD wrote: »

Could have just thanked Mr Alan. The ganging up on SOTS is a bit ghey tbh.

didn't read Mr. Alans reply so i have now thanked it, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

CHD

Mitch Connor wrote: »

didn't read Mr. Alans reply so i have now thanked it, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

lol ok.

daithijjj

CHD wrote: »

Could have just thanked Mr Alan. The ganging up on SOTS is a bit ghey tbh.

Its more than 'a bit' ghey.

Mr.Nice Guy

No

I would be in favour of it and think it would be warmly appreciated. One good reason I'd propose for it would be that often there are topics specific to one club which can warrant decent discussion but, if posted on the soccer board, would usually be met with comments like:

Did this really need its own thread? Post it in the United/Liverpool/Arsenal etc. superthread. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's a waste of time doing that however because those threads move by so quickly and it can easily get lost in the shuffle.

Spiritoftheseventies

No

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I would be in favour of it and think it would be warmly appreciated. One good reason I'd propose for it would be that often there are topics specific to one club which can warrant decent discussion but, if posted on the soccer board, would usually be met with comments like:



It's a waste of time doing that however because those threads move by so quickly and it can easily get lost in the shuffle.

Yes excellent point there. Have no idea where the rafa thread that was set up a few months ago. If it was in a sub forum would be a lot easier to manage. Nothing wrong with a bit of organization at the end of the day.

everdead.ie

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Yes excellent point there. Have no idea where the rafa thread that was set up a few months ago. If it was in a sub forum would be a lot easier to manage. Nothing wrong with a bit of organization at the end of the day.

But there's a search button if you want to post in it again

Spiritoftheseventies

No

everdead.ie wrote: »

But there's a search button if you want to post in it again

yeah but the search forum very messy. dont know how many times I have typed in a word and seven results have come up. At least with a subforum i know where to look for it.

flahavaj

The Rafa thread was locked.

Threads would still eventually disappear off teh page in a sub forum as well, thats not a good argument in favour of setting them up.

Frisbee

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

yeah but the search forum very messy. dont know how many times I have typed in a word and seven results have come up. At least with a subforum i know where to look for it.

Have to say I find the search function very good. Very easy to find stuff with it.

flahavaj

Frisbee wrote: »

Have to say I find the search function very good. Very easy to find stuff with it.

Course it is. Simple to use.

Spiritoftheseventies

No

Yes flah but they will be easier to find. Not talking about Rafa and pool thread done. was another set up after that by a mod after that.

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Yes flah but they will be easier to find. Not talking about Rafa and pool thread done. was another set up after that by a mod after that.

No they won't. In 6 months time a Liverpool sub-forum will have pages of threads built up. It will still be necessary to use the search function if for some bizarre reason you want to find a zombie Rafa thread.

May I suggest you try and master the search function, as either way you're going to need it. You could use the time you're currently spendng flogging this particular dead horse across two separate fora to become quick nifty at it I'd imagine.

Zaph

This thread is about whether there should be a sub-forum for the superthreads, not whether there should be club-specific forums. You're already discussing the latter in Feedback SOS, stop trying to cloud a completely separate issue here.