Puppy going crazy around food & lab / collie cross aging

--amadeus--

Ok, special offer, two for one questions in this thread, roll up and get em while they're hot!

Question One:

We have a pup (springer), dob 25/11/09 who eats anything and everything. We keep an eye to make sure that nothing dangerous gets near her (onions for example) but she wolfs down everything. Raw apple, orange - even potato. This morning she lapped up half a glass of orange juice. Peelings, rice - the only thing she hasn't eaten that she had a chance to was a piece of overripe banana.

And around food time she goes totally loopy - bounces around, charges at the bowl, shivers while she eats.

To anyone watching you would swear we never feed her! But she gets in and around the recommended amount of food in two portions each day (she'd fed by my 75 yo father in law and 6 yo daughter so exact portions can be hit and miss but it's in the ballpark). She also gets treats both because she's a puppy and a con artist and to help with training. But she's getting worse over food rather than better; she nipped my FIL's finger quite hard the other day she was so desperate to get at the bowl and she bolts the food down in seconds. Food is good quality - Purina Beta Puppy so I don't think it's lacking in anything.

We have tried removing the food while she eats and returning it minutes later but it doesn't seem to have any effect. Should we feed her more frequently? Any other ideas? She looks like she is normal size and weight (vets for final jabs this week so can veify this with him)

Question Two - Lab / Collie cross and exercise

Dog 2 is a great big, soft lump of a lab / collie cross that we got from rescue. Like the pup he's fed good quality food and a more than fair share of treats (not to mention table scraps). He's bang on weight and very, very fit and strong. Roughly 5 - 6 years old, we guesstimate he was about 18 months when we got him around 4 years ago.

I run a lot and he has always run with me; anything up to 18 miles in the past. But lately he seems to be struggling with it a bit. I have sped up (I don't know if this means anything but usually I'd be doing a mile in around 7:30, particularly over distance; shorter runs often faster some runs slower). He has ample access to water (we run by the river) and it's certainly not too hot at the moment (he's black and heat is an issue in teh summer). He does have mange but thats under control and under treatment.

Now we are just back in training again after a break so I am hoping he's just a bit out of condition (a lot like me!) and he'll shape up again but he's been lagging behind a lot lately and MrsA drove past us when we were running and said he looked knackered. That said he loves going out running - when he sees me in my kit he goes loopy and bolts out of the gate. But on Friday I did a 16 miler in a fraction over 2 hours and he lagged behind from a few miles in. As I got a couple of miles from home I turned round to get him to catch up and he'd disappeared. It seems he just thought "sod it" and slowed to a walk and came home at his own pace! Which is funny now but was worrying at the time and I don't want it to be a habit. I've decided not to take him on longer runs but that'll dramatically cut back his exercise and there must be a balance.

Could it be age? He's greying a bit around teh mouth but I would have thought 5 - 6 was prime of life for a dog?

Thanks!

peasant

--amadeus-- wrote: »

He does have mange but thats under control and under treatment.

Mange also is a sign for a weak(ened) immune system.

It should be sort of self-explanatory not to subject such a dog to strenous excercise until it is perfectly healthy again.

--amadeus--

peasant wrote: »

Mange also is a sign for a weak(ened) immune system.

It should be sort of self-explanatory not to subject such a dog to strenous excercise until it is perfectly healthy again.

Got the vets ok on that. He thinks it is a weak immune system (probably an allergy to pollen as it worsens during teh summer). Mange isn't something a dog can get "perfectly healthy" from again, he's always had it and always will have it. It's never been an issue in the past with him running - and like I said the vet gave it a green light.

Toulouse

Did the vet say whether it is Demodectic mange or sarcoptic? I'm under the impression that sarcoptic can be cleared but demodectic can reappear when the animal is stressed or has a weakened immune system.

--amadeus--

Sorry, should have clarified, it is demodectic.

He was diagnosed a couple of years ago and the vet warned us that it was teh sort of issue that can leave a dog with no quality of life. We have a bottle of something (can't remember the name of it, white foul smelling stuff) that we wash him with when he starts to show signs, it kills the mites but because of his weakened immune system he'll never be rid of it, over time teh mites come back and we re-do the cycle.

Like I said it's never been an issue in teh past and he's in great nick at the moment - he was at a photoshoot with loads of other dogs last week (don't ask!) and a pet shop manager there was praising the quality of his coat.

peasant

You may not think so, but IMO 16-18 miles of hard running is a very strenous physical (and mental!) excercise for your garden variety lab mix.

They're not built for endurance running in the first place (too heavy) and much happier rooting around than running along.

I think he's simply had enough of this now and would prefer a somewhat more sedate lifestyle.

--amadeus--

peasant wrote: »

I think he's simply had enough of this now and would prefer a somewhat more sedate lifestyle.

Ooohhh, that really would be bad news. I thought labs were good exercise dogs?

peasant

Yes, but there's exercise and then there's exercise

Just stupidly running for mile after mile, never a lamppost to be sniffed, no holes to be dug, no other dogs to be greeted ...that would turn off the best Lab after a while.

--amadeus--

peasant wrote: »

Yes, but there's exercise and then there's exercise

Just stupidly running for mile after mile, never a lamppost to be sniffed, no holes to be dug, no other dogs to be greeted ...that would turn off the best Lab after a while.

Ahh I think you might be projecting your opinion on the dog there!

I can categorically say that the dog is def. not bored. We have a couple of routes we run but both are on paths by the Shannon and are well frequented by dog walkers. We see lots (and lots) of other dogs on the way who he greets, there are no end of bushes and trees, long grass and reeds to run in and around and a steady supply of swans and ducks to dive into the river after.

Usually on a run he's bounding ahead after a swan, then going for a quick paddle and drink. He'll stop for a sniff or to say hello to a dog before racing after me again; he's in dog heaven. It's only in the last little bit that he's started dragging his feet.

tk123

For the puppy - our guy was the same as this jumping up, sticking his head in the bowl before it was on the floor etc etc. What we do is (from dog whisperer) take his bowl up and fill it on the counter (if we try to pour the food in with the bowl on the floor he tries to eat it before it hits the bowl), then tell him to sit and wait say 30 seconds looking away from him, then put it down. He copped on quickly enough that once he was calm he'd get fed quicker! Also I was browsing in the pet shop one day and they had these silver ball things that you put in the bowl to stop the dog wolfing the food down - I just stick one of our pups balls in his bowl so he takes his time.
Our guy is golden retreiver and at the moment i'm feeding him the amount for an adult weight of 35kgs (he's 27.3 kgs as of saturday and 7 months old). Our vet told us that we should feel a layer of fat over his ribs - if he feels boney it's time to increase his food. He's on royal canin maxi junior btw..

pinkdaisy

For the collie/lab question, there are a number of reasons aside from ageing why a middle-aged - older dog would become a little less tolerant of strenuous exercise. We're talking heart/lung problems, myopathies (muscle problems) and metabolic disturbances.
If you think your dog is not coping as well with exercise as they were previously, you should consider bringing him/her to your vet, explain that the dog has decreased exercise tolerance and take it from there...There could be medical reasons why your dog isn't coping as well, especially if you say the dog was enjoying your runs before.

It could also be that he's just getting older and his stamina is decreasing for that reason, but 6/7 isn't that old and he should be fit anyway. So I'd say if you think there's a noticeable decrease and you're getting worried about it, think about getting him checked out by a professional.

lorebringer

+ 1 for medical reasons you Lab is not enjoying exercise as much as she used to. Labs are very prone to hip and joint problems and she could be adjusting the way she runs if he is uncomfortable, thus getting very tired. Or he could have another underlying condition (heart/lung or hormone spring to mind) that is causing him to get tired more quickly than he used to. A trip to the vet for a full look over and even some blood tests is a good idea to make sure he is functioning properly.

With regards to the Springer, have you tried teaching her "leave it"? Start out small, say with a ball (because she is so food orientated that any kind of food might be too exciting to start with) - place is on the ground and prevent her from getting it (usually involves you on the ground, in front of her but not blocking the ball, holding her with your hand while she can see the ball and saying "leave it"). Don't let her near the ball/treat/food until she is calm and not busting to get at it. It could take 100 attempts but she will get the idea eventually. After this move onto anything you can think of to use the "leave it" command, including food. Eventually, you (or anyone else) should be able to say "leave it", place the food bowl on the ground and then she can have it cone you say so. Also, taking the bowl away is a bad idea simply because it reinforces the idea that she has that you are going to take her food if you get close. If you, or anyone else, can inch your hand towards the bowl and eventually put it in the bowl, without reaction from her, it's a better approach. When the hand enters the bowl, try to leave something extra tasty for her so that she makes the connection between hands near/in the bowl with something brilliant to eat.

As tk123 said, to prevent her from gulping down her food, there are weighted balls that can be put into the bowl to help slow them down and also special bowls that work the same way.

Finally, how much exercise is the Springer getting? The arse needs to be walked off them just to get them down to near normal energy levels. Try doing any training after she has been exercised because she will be calmer and less crazy! The general rule is 5 minutes per day per month of age - so about 20 minutes, plus play time and training should be good for her. This helps prevent joint problems later in life because it reduces stress on growing joints due to exercise. Once she reaches about 9 months you can start bringing her for serious walks.

(sorry such a long post!)

--amadeus--

Excellent advice folks, thank you.

As it happens MrsA had the pups booster jabs scheduled for today so we were in the vet anyway. His advice was not to worry to much about the lab but that as a fairly big dog who's run a lot already he may just be feeling his age a bit. He said back it off a little on the distances he runs and see how he gets on - if he gets up to 10 and 12 again and looks like he's enjoying it go longer again but let him dictate how far he runs.

Some excellent suggestions on the Springer as well, we'll work on those.

thanks again!