The South American Flops XI

redout

GK: Diego Cavalieri
(£3 million, Palmeiras to Liverpool, 2008)
Not really that much of a flop, but he’s the only South American keeper I could think of apart from Gomes that has played in the Premiership. Whilst Gomes has shined for Spurs this season, Cavalleri has yet to play in a Premier League game for Liverpool since joining in 2008. In total, the Brazilian has played in 8 games for the club, which amounts to £375,000 per game. Although, being stuck behind Pepe Reina at Anfield isn’t exactly the ideal situation if you want first-team football.
LB: Gilberto
(Undisclosed fee, Hertha Berlin to Tottenham, 2008)
Signed by Juande Ramos, Gilberto was the epitome of a Brazilian defender: good going forward, but completely inept defensively. A disastrous debut against PSV, where the Brazilian’s mistake cost Spurs the match, it didn’t really get any better than that. Gilberto had his contract terminated last summer and now plays for Cruzeiro in Brazil. Surprisingly, the left back is still a part of Brazil’s World Cup plans, having been named in next week’s friendly against Ireland at the Emirates.
RB: Roque Junior
(Loan, AC Milan to Leeds, 2003)
A catastrophe in the centre of defence, Roque Junior arrived at Elland Road having won a Champions League with Milan and a World Cup with Brazil. Error prone and clumsy, the Brazilian defender was part of the Leeds side that was relegated that season and dropped down the divisions since.
CB: Cacapa
(free transfer, Lyon to Newcastle, 2007)
Arrived at St James Park with high hopes, having captained Lyon to five straight Ligue 1 titles. What followed was an injury filled stint at Newcastle, capped off with that display against Portsmouth, where the Brazilian was substituted after 18 minutes and Newcastle 3-0 down. Now at Cruzeiro with Tottenham reject Gilberto.
CB: Fabricio Coloccini
(£10.3 million, Deportivo to Newcastle, 2008)
Struggled in his first season in the Premiership, having excelled in Spain with Deportivo. Prone to a lot of mistakes, specifically in the heavy 5-1 defeat to Liverpool last season. Coloccini is doing well for Newcastle in the Championship this season, but whether he can up his game to succeed in the Premiership is another matter entirely.
LM: Robinho
(£32.5 million, Real Madrid to Man City, 2008)
Excellent at the start of his City career but this quickly faded and Robinho’s performances, particularly this season, were extremely disappointing. A terrible attitude, poor away from home and unwilling to work for the team, the Brazilian was shipped off to Santos on loan and it is unknown whether he will return. Extremely talented, I like Robinho as a player, but for the amount of money he cost, he deserves a place on this team.
CM: Juan Sebastian Veron
(£28.1 million, Lazio to Man United, £15 million to Chelsea)
An exceptional player in Italy with Parma and Lazio, Veron was one of my favourite players in Italy due to his excellent vision and passing, and Sir Alex broke the British transfer record to bring the Argentine to Old Trafford in 2001. Unable to adapt to the style and pace of the Premiership, Veron’s spells at United and Chelsea have to be considered a massive failure.
CM: Kleberson
(£6.5 million, Atletico Paranaense to Man United, 2003)
A World Cup winner with Brazil, Kleberson was signed to replace Veron in the United midfield, along with the great Eric Djemba-Djemba. Spent two years at Old Trafford and was considered a huge flop. Now at Flamengo in Brazil, Kleberson is still in the Brazil squad and is keeping the likes of Anderson out of the squad to face Ireland next week.
ST: Jo
(£18 million, CSKA Moscow to Man City, 2008)
Highly regarded in Russia with CSKA, Jo was never able to settle at Man City, only scoring one goal for the club. Loaned out to Everton, where he was relatively successful, scoring 5 goals for the Toffees. After refusing to return on time from Brazil, Everton boss David Moyes suspended Jo for breach of contract and the Brazilian joined Turkish side Galatasaray on loan.
ST: Hernan Crespo
(£16.8 million, Inter to Chelsea, 2003)
Like Veron, Crespo came to England after an extremely successful career in Italy with Parma, Lazio and Inter and was expected to become a major star at Chelsea. A prolific goalscorer throughout his career, Crespo did OK at Chelsea but became surplus to requirements at Stamford Bridge, spending time on loan at AC Milan, before his contract was not renewed in 2008. Just edges out other flops like Diego Forlan because of the money spent by Chelsea to sign him.
ST: Afonso Alves
(£12.7 million, Heerenveen to Middlesborough, 2008)
Alves arrived on Teeside with a big reputation, having been prolific in the Dutch league. However, the Brazilian failed to deliver for Middlesborough, he was inconsistent and disinterested in playing for the struggling club. When Middlesborough were relegated last season, Alves was sold to Qatar club Al-Sadd.
Subs: Mark Gonzalez (Liverpool), Diego Forlan (Man United), Agustin Delgado (Southampton), Christian Bassedas (Newcastle).

Go bitch, discuss and nitpick.

FFC

JPA

I wouldn't say Crespo was a flop at all.

billymitchell

No forlan or Lucas :eek:

Galvasean

No love for Julio Baptista?

Mitch Connor

Crespo is seen as a flop as he was loaned/sold on so quickly, but his stats were very good.

I would have thought Forlan as an easy pick ahead of him. I suppose the price tags make a difference.

Karmafaerie

billymitchell wrote: »

No forlan or Lucas :eek:

You're so 2009, you're 2008!

Mr.Nice Guy

Aurelio and Insua are worth a mention imo and good candidates to fill these lists in future years unless they improve.

Mario Jardel was a flop at Bolton. Walter Pandiani flopped at Birmingham I think.

Can't think of many others.

magma69

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Aurelio and Insua are worth a mention imo and good candidates to fill these lists in future years unless they improve.

Mario Jardel was a flop at Bolton. Walter Pandiani flopped at Birmingham I think.

Can't think of many others.

Stupid post. Aurelio signed for nothing. If he leaves in the Summer he will have been a success.:rolleyes:

We got Insua on loan and signed him for **** all. He isn't the best player but he is young. You should include Fabio and Rafael if you want to apply them standards. Retarded standards.

Mitch Connor

magma69 wrote: »

Stupid post. Aurelio signed for nothing. If he leaves in the Summer he will have been a success.:rolleyes:

fee should not really come in to it imo, it is whether they performed or not that is the issue. If United got Pato on a free (bosman, say) and he got 1 goal in 50 games before being sold back to milan for a fiver, would that not be a flop?

I'm not saying Aurelio has or has not performed to standard, just saying coming on a free should not really be the deciding factor.

Hell, i reckon Owen has been a flop so far at United (despite the winner vs City) and he came on a free. The issue is that he has not performed to the level expected/required, to the point i have almost forgotten that he is a United player.

eZe^

Galvasean wrote: »

No love for Julio Baptista?

He only ever played on loan no?

HalloweenJack

I wouldn't have Coloccini, Jo, Crespo or Robinho in there.

When he was actually playing at Chelsea, Crespo did well. Unfortunately, he was signed by Ranieri in 2003 and when Mourinho came, he brought Drogba. He also went to two CL finals when on loan at AC and in his one year under Mourinho, he impressed.

Jo flopped at Man City but he did well at Everton and I imagine if it weren't for his indiscipline, he'd still be there.

Coloccini is a very good player and I've been impressed with him anytime I've seen him for Newcastle. The fact that the team got relegated isn't entirely his fault.

Robinho blows hot and cold and his attitude is crap but he's still a handy player to have around and he did do well for City at times.

magma69

Mitch Connor wrote: »

fee should not really come in to it imo, it is whether they performed or not that is the issue. If United got Pato on a free (bosman, say) and he got 1 goal in 50 games before being sold back to milan for a fiver, would that not be a flop?

I'm not saying Aurelio has or has not performed to standard, just saying coming on a free should not really be the deciding factor.

Hell, i reckon Owen has been a flop so far at United (despite the winner vs City) and he came on a free. The issue is that he has not performed to the level expected/required, to the point i have almost forgotten that he is a United player.

I would have thought it to be a major factor in determining whether a player is a flop or not. If that is the case you could include so many youths who played one or two games and left.

Mitch Connor

magma69 wrote: »

I would have thought it to be a major factor in determining whether a player is a flop or not. If that is the case you could include so many youths who played one or two games and left.

i see that as different.

the expectations for a young player are completely different to that of a senior signing.

Liverpool signed Ngoo (Ngo?) during the summer, youth signing, basically a free. United signed Owen in the summer on a free. Are you saying both players should be judged by the same criteria and expectations because they were bought for the same fees?

Should Ngo's performances be compared to Owen, or Voronin simply because of how much he cost?

Surely the main expectation comes from who you sign, not from how much you sign them for.

For me, it doesn't matter what a player cost, it is how they perform in relation to what is expected of them. Sure, if they cost a fortune and perform crap it makes the argument for their floppiness a lot easier to make, but the central issue should be what was expected of them upon their signing, not what they were signed for.

magma69

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i see that as different.

the expectations for a young player are completely different to that of a senior signing.

Liverpool signed Ngoo (Ngo?) during the summer, youth signing, basically a free. United signed Owen in the summer on a free. Are you saying both players should be judged by the same criteria and expectations because they were bought for the same fees?

Should Ngo's performances be compared to Owen, or Voronin simply because of how much he cost?

Surely the main expectation comes from who you sign, not from how much you sign them for.

For me, it doesn't matter what a player cost, it is how they perform in relation to what is expected of them. Sure, if they cost a fortune and perform crap it makes the argument for their floppiness a lot easier to make, but the central issue should be what was expected of them upon their signing, not what they were signed for.

I see your point that an established player should live up to his prestige alright. It still does not mean that their price shouldn't be a factor though. If Owen signed for a large fee, I would consider him a flop. The fact that he was free, I don't (I actually think he is done rather well given his limited game time, but that is beside the point). On a personal level, Owen might feel he is underperforming but I think you have to factor in the financial cost of the player to see if he was a flop or not.

In the case of Insua and Aurelio, I know you weren't claiming them to be, but neither were players of high prestige when they were signed.

cson

Baptista ftw.

The beasht showed his beashtliness against 'Pool before promptly ****ing off to never never gonna be anything land again.

Mitch Connor

magma69 wrote: »

I see your point that an established player should live up to his prestige alright. It still does not mean that their price shouldn't be a factor though. If Owen signed for a large fee, I would consider him a flop. The fact that he was free, I don't (I actually think he is done rather well given his limited game time, but that is beside the point). On a personal level, Owen might feel he is underperforming but I think you have to factor in the financial cost of the player to see if he was a flop or not.

In the case of Insua and Aurelio, I know you weren't claiming them to be, but neither were players of high prestige when they were signed.

i'm not saying price should not come in to it at all, but the post I originally sparked this discussion about said it was stupid to have Aurelio in there because he was signed on a free. It didn't say he had done well, or performed well in certain roles/games where needed. It simply said he shouldn't be considered a flop because he was a free. My point is that the fee should not be the deciding factor as it appeared to be in this case, but whether or not the player performed above or below expectations (which will, i admit, also be linked to how much they cost)

Basically, money - whether too much or nothing at all was spent - should not be the be all and end all of the issue, imo.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Anderson ??

Mitch Connor

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Anderson ??

oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, almost crontraversial.

I would say no, right now. He is still only young. His first season was very promising, and when he came back from injury last season for the run in time, he was excellent for us (right up til his 'mare in the CL final)

This season he has been very poor for all but a couple of games, and his AWOL trip to Brazil resulting in him missing the last month hasn't helped him at all. I would give him more time before calling him a flop to be honest, the talent is there, and he has shown it, but this season has been terrible for him i'll admit.

related to this, but not point making by any means, he played for the reserves the other night and was absolutely brilliant, at the heart of everything. Reserve level though, so doesn't really mean anything, but it was still good to see.

cson

Anderson vs Aurelio.

Liverpool vs Man Utd.

Again.

On yet another thread.

Yawn.

everdead.ie

On the plus side Gomes would of made the list last year but this year he has been brilliant absolutely brilliant.

cson

everdead.ie wrote: »

On the plus side Gomes would of made the list last year but this year he has been brilliant absolutely brilliant.

Is he Brazilian or what is he?

From an Arsenal p.o.v Nelson Vivas.... :eek:

Mitch Connor

cson wrote: »

Anderson vs Aurelio.

Liverpool vs Man Utd.

Again.

On yet another thread.

Yawn.

WTF?

You are just seeing that cause you want to imo.

IMO, Anderson is a perfectly viable suggestion. I do not think he should be labled a flop, but i can see where T4TF is coming from and I don't think it is from a "lets name a United player cause a liverpool player was mentioned".

cson

To be fair, I apologise - it is a bit rash. But just off the face of it the first page dives pretty much straight into Aurelio, and then Anderson is mentioned. It just seems to go down the oft travelled route of aggravating debate and argument for the sake of it between Man Utd and Liverpool fans.

Having read it again, two fair points made - fair play, genuinely.

RandolphEsq

Forlan definitely another one. Such a waste of space at United. It's not about how everyone felt about him, it's about playing well! And he was awful!

Mitch Connor

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Forlan definitely another one. Such a waste of space at United. It's not about how everyone felt about him, it's about playing well! And he was awful!

he was decent when he got a good run of games, but he only got that run of games once i think, maybe twice. so overall it didn't happen for him.

If only he had picked the correct studs!!

SlickRic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If only he had picked the correct studs!!

or played against Liverpool every week.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Forlan has scored some important goals though, even if he scored them infrequently. Hardly a flop since he left the prem either.

RandolphEsq

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Forlan has scored some important goals though, even if he scored them infrequently. Hardly a flop since he left the prem either.

World class since he left, unfortunately

Mr.Nice Guy

magma69 wrote: »

Stupid post. Aurelio signed for nothing. If he leaves in the Summer he will have been a success.:rolleyes:

We got Insua on loan and signed him for **** all. He isn't the best player but he is young. You should include Fabio and Rafael if you want to apply them standards. Retarded standards.

Did I commit the cardinal sin of knocking some bad Liverpool players? Well done on knocking some United players in response. You have won me over with such a fantastic retort.

I don't care what they signed for. Whenever I've seen them they look like liabilities and I'd wager have cost Liverpool an awful lot of points in their time at the club. They are not top four standard imo and those are the standards I am setting for them.

Maybe next time before you go foaming at the mouth you can remind yourself that others are entitled to views that differ from your own.

Ferris_Bueller

In fairness to them players in the XI, the majority are very good players or have been at some stage in their career. But then I guess that's what makes them flops..

Mr Alan

LOL Aurelio & Lucas on a list of all time south american flops. ****in comical.

magma69

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Did I commit the cardinal sin of knocking some bad Liverpool players? Well done on knocking some United players in response. You have won me over with such a fantastic retort.

I don't care what they signed for. Whenever I've seen them they look like liabilities and I'd wager have cost Liverpool an awful lot of points in their time at the club. They are not top four standard imo and those are the standards I am setting for them.

Maybe next time before you go foaming at the mouth you can remind yourself that others are entitled to views that differ from your own.

You are perfectly entitled to your view. Did I tell you to shut up? I just pointed out the stupidity of your post.

cson

magma69 wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to your view. Did I tell you to shut up? I just pointed out the stupidity of your post.

Which in itself is a subjective analysis

sprinkles

magma69 wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to your view. Did I tell you to shut up? I just pointed out the stupidity of your post.

In all fairness your initial response to Mr. Nice Guy's assertion that Insua and Aurelio should be considered was to immediately pick up on 2 United players - 1 of whom is playing his way into the side at the tender age of 18 while the other is second to possibly the best left back in the premiership/europe. It would appear to be that you took his comments as a slight against the Pool. Calling his post Stupid and Retarded just showed you're lack of tact and maturity imo.

In any case I would agree with considering Aurelio as a flop - whether he'd make the all time starting IX is another thing. Not so much Insua though as I honestly think he will develop into a decent player.

However, as much as I hate to admit it I think Anderson is starting to look like a flop. Big money paid for him, a lot promised and so little delivered. He needs a run of games soon or I think his days might be numbered.

Disagree with having Crespo up there. He played great for the tinkerer. Forlan for the win purely because of how good he is since leaving...

m@cc@

I'd have Pizarro in there ahead of Crespo.

everdead.ie

cson wrote: »

Is he Brazilian or what is he?

From an Arsenal p.o.v Nelson Vivas.... :eek:

Ya he's brazillian

Tusky

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Aurelio and Insua .

:eek:

Aurelio was signed on a free and has been a very solid player for Liverpool. If he wasnt so injury prone I would be happy to have him as first choice left back.

Insua has just turned 21, and its his first season in the premier league having been promoted from the reserves. Hes also been called up to the Argentine national side recently. He definitely has a lot to learn defensively, but has been v.good going forward, with 5 assists in the league (as many as Evra and more than A.Cole, Sagna or Clichy). I think he will improve over time.

Raekwon

Alberto Tarantini was an Argentine World Cup winning full-back signed by Birmingham back in the 1978 that didn't exactly live up to the hype.

After some good performances during the World Cup he was signed by Birmingham City for £295,000. His spell in England was overshadowed by poor discipline, with Tarantini flattening Manchester United striker Brian Greenhoff, and famously ending his 23-game spell in Birmingham by wading into the crowd to punch a heckler.

Being a Villa supporter the bold part of the quote really amuses me

Xavi6

Two words - Matias Vuoso

cson

Xavi6 wrote: »

Two words - Matias Vuoso

Who-oso? :P

JPA

Xavi6 wrote: »

Two words - Matias Vuoso

Central American I would say. /pedant.
:P

Johner

Crespo wasn't really a flop.

Whoever said Insua/Aurelio must just hate Liverpool.

redout

Claudio Pizarro for Chelsea was crap albeit no fee.

m@cc@

JPA wrote: »

Central American I would say. /pedant.
:P

North American actually. :cool:

Xavi6

JPA wrote: »

Central American I would say. /pedant.
:P

I think you'll find he's very much South American, and only became a naturalised Mexican well after his stint in the Prem

8-10

Nicolas Medina - Sunderland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Medina

Melion

Hilarious that they have Cavalieri there really. Just shows how bad the list is from the very start.

kryogen

Melion wrote: »

Hilarious that they have Cavalieri there really. Just shows how bad the list is from the very start.

tbf to him i think he said he only had him cuz he couldnt think of any other south american keepers

m@cc@

South American goalkeepers tend to be eccentric, not something you'd want in the PL.

kryogen

yeah i think a few of them believe they are just playing a game of last man back sometimes

remember Chilavert? he used to take the attacking free kicks!

m@cc@

kryogen wrote: »

yeah i think a few of them believe they are just playing a game of last man back sometimes

remember Chilavert? he used to take the attacking free kicks!

One that stands out for me was Higuita. Also, although not South American, remember Jorge Campos and his nutty shirts that he designed himself?