Who, on this forum, is in favour of a 32 county Republic?

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

Unlike in NI, where when we walk the land of ancestors we are harassed by a corrupt police force and at risk of sectarian atacks colluded with the same corrupt police, this police force with the British

In recent years I would suggest that there is a far greater threat to some in the nationalists community from their own than there is from sectarian attacks arising from the police colluding with loyalists. Ask Robert McCarthy's family.

PomBear

lugha wrote: »

In recent years I would suggest that there is a far greater threat to some in the nationalists community from their own than there is from sectarian attacks arising from the police colluding with loyalists. Ask Robert McCarthy's family.

It's Robert McCartney.

And i'd tell you to ask John Brady's family.

Probably less collusion these days post GFA, certainly there's is no difference is sectarianism from the police.

TOMASJ

Definitively in favor,and I think if things keep going like they are at at present, nationalist getting stronger and more confident, and the protestant people of the six counties learn that there is (no big bogeyman across the border) as was fed to them in the past, they will embrace the concept of a 32 county Ireland.

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

Probably less collusion these days post GFA, certainly there's is no difference is sectarianism from the police.

Problems with the police not being representatives of both communities will be resolved when a sufficient number of Catholics join the police. That won't be helped one iota by a united Ireland.
BTW, when was the last incidence of alleged collusion?

PomBear

lugha wrote: »

Problems with the police not being representatives of both communities will be resolved when a sufficient number of Catholics join the police. That won't be helped one iota by a united Ireland.
BTW, when was the last incidence of alleged collusion?

Trust me, the number of Catholics has not helped one iota. An all Ireland police force will remove sectarianism.

The last alleged case that I know of is the Kevin McDaid murder.
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/mcdaid-killing-shadow-of-robert-hamill-murder-looms-ever-larger-with-explos/

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

Trust me, the number of Catholics has not helped one iota. An all Ireland police force will remove sectarianism.

No. It. Won't. :rolleyes:

This is one of the most depressing things about the united Ireland project, the belief the sectarianism will magically disappear in a united Ireland.

The tragic demise of Kevin McDaid happened because some loyalists thug went on a rampage after a Glasgow rangers victory. Do you really think they needed the police to inform them that there were some tricolors flying in nationalists areas? And why do you think such thugs would not behave like this in a united Ireland?

Can you explain the mechanism to me whereby a united Ireland, or even a single island police force, will remove sectarianism? It is simply delusional to suggest that this will happen.

PomBear

lugha wrote: »

No. It. Won't. :rolleyes:

This is one of the most depressing things about the united Ireland project, the belief the sectarianism will magically disappear in a united Ireland.

The tragic demise of Kevin McDaid happened because some loyalists thug went on a rampage after a Glasgow rangers victory. Do you really think they needed the police to inform them that there were some tricolors flying in nationalists areas? And why do you think such thugs would not behave like this in a united Ireland?

Can you explain the mechanism to me whereby a united Ireland, or even a single island police force, will remove sectarianism? It is simply delusional to suggest that this will happen.

Because the goals of Republicanism wil have been acheived, which can cut down on sectarianism significantly. Thugs would behave like this but with a non-sectarian police force, we can treat it as anti social behaviour.

RandomName2

PomBear wrote: »

Because i'm an Irish person born in the Six Counties, many others like me have seen the oppression of our people. You have not seen this in your lifetime. You have walked the land of your ancestors freely under the control of Irish people, as we make this state sovereign. Unlike in NI, where when we walk the land of ancestors we are harassed by a corrupt police force and at risk of sectarian atacks colluded with the same corrupt police, this police force with the British Army have murdered many of our people for not accepting them. You seem to forget that down south and maybe if Connolly, Pearse and thousands upon thousands others had been murdered , 20 years ago instead of 100 ears ago you might feel different but we don't and we will never. We wish to stop these murders and corruption and rejoin the land of our ancesters and the land of our nationality.

Look I sympathise with your position to a large extent.

However, you seem to be suggesting that you can redress the greviences of your community, whom you see as diametrically opposed to the state of which you belong, by merging with those loyal to your cause from the south: thus having the strength to purge the elements of your society that have kept you downtrodden.

Unfortunately this moves away from a perspective of ' I should fix my state' to ' My state is corrupt and should be destroyed'. Northern nationalists always had a voice in Home Rule Northern Ireland. Of course, because of Gerrymanderring their numbers were not representative for a long period; but the fact is that Northern Nationalists for a long period had no interest in Constitutional politics - they refused to sit in Stormont - they insisted that the state of Northern Ireland had no validity.

Unionists created Northern Ireland through their own fear of consequences of being forced into a Home Rule 32 county Ireland. They used their newly won freedom from the United Kingdom to pursue political policies which favoured protestants in terms of homes, work and schooling (although free education paid for by the UK essentially ended this last one shortly after WW2). This imbalance led to a justified anger amoung catholic communities, that had at one stage the potential to be merely civil and political, but unfortunately developed as a sectarian para-military crusade.

Not only did northern nationalists fail to engage properly with the political process of northern Ireland for a long time, but they also failed to engage correctly with the political process of southern Ireland. You may state that the northern police force is corrupt. Well, the southern police force has long been a target of northern nationalist insurgents. Indeed, northern nationalist views on the validity of southern Ireland have not been terribly flattering: it is not until recently that Sinn Fein's boycott of the Dail ended!

You may point at the thousands upon thousands of deaths suffered in the southern state in the 1920s. However, the vast majority of this was civil strife where Irishman killed Irishman, attempted to right personal slights, attack separate political stances, and target those of conflicting class, creed, or culture.

None of that is anything to admire, or attempt to reignite through political unification.

moonpurple

you can travel anywhere in ireland, the border is not sealed, blink and you will miss it,

any other aspects are cosmetic

lots of talk of an gaeilge at stormont recently

there aint no gaeilge in Dublin just pockets among elite groups,

this is as united an ireland as it ever has been

that td in kenmare gets a hospital....

local tribal splintered Ireland.... not even God himself could unite this hotch potch of traditions now further bamboozled by eastern europeans and other folks....

get over it, forget about it..northern nationalists will not be too keen to hitch this crocked economy to their stronger local economy in a big hurry..

only dolites and criminals and smugglers are in rira and cira.. mainstream northern nationalists are as skeptical about 'de south' as the orange loyal lodges

SlabMurphy

moonpurple wrote: »

mainstream northern nationalists are as skeptical about 'de south' as the orange loyal lodges

Obviously you never met a nationalist from the six counties.

Fratton Fred

PomBear wrote: »

Because the goals of Republicanism wil have been acheived, which can cut down on sectarianism significantly. Thugs would behave like this but with a non-sectarian police force, we can treat it as anti social behaviour.

So calling it anti social behaviour rather than sectarianism makes the problem go away?

I don't get your point?

LordSutch

moonpurple wrote: »

you can travel anywhere in ireland, the border is not sealed, blink and you will miss it,
any other aspects are cosmetic
lots of talk of an gaeilge at stormont recently
there aint no gaeilge in Dublin just pockets among elite groups,
this is as united an ireland as it ever has been
that td in kenmare gets a hospital....
local tribal splintered Ireland.... not even God himself could unite this hotch potch of traditions now further bamboozled by eastern europeans and other folks....

get over it, forget about it..northern nationalists will not be too keen to hitch this crocked economy to their stronger local economy in a big hurry..

only dolites and criminals and smugglers are in rira and cira.. mainstream northern nationalists are as skeptical about 'de south' as the orange loyal lodges

I personally tend to agree with all of the above, and just to add this too . . I happened to be flicking between 'Stormont live' & 'the 'Dail' one day last week, and what struck me was the fact that both parliaments seem to be doing just fine running their own juristictions independently of each other (but with close cooperation), surely the thought of Stormont actually closong down & amalgamating (unifying) with the Dail to govern one 'United Ireland/Juristiction' seems to be so far removed from reality, as to be meaningless.

DoireNod

Camelot wrote: »

I personally tend to agree with all of the above, and just to add this too . . I happened to be flicking between 'Stormont live' & 'the 'Dail' one day last week, and what struck me was the fact that both parliaments seem to be doing just fine running their own juristictions independently of each other (but with close cooperation), surely the thought of Stormont actually closong down & amalgamating (unifying) with the Dail to govern one 'United Ireland/Juristiction' seems to be so far removed from reality, as to be meaningless.

Why exactly do you think such an idea seems to be 'so far removed from reality' as to render it 'meaningless'? It's not that unrealistic, since Ireland was once one jurisdiction in the past and it means quite a bit to a probable majority on the island.

You could be flicking between any coverage of any parliament and they could seem to be doing fine, but, seeming and reality don't always correlate. You shouldn't judge how a country is run solely on how they appear to be getting on in parliament. I mean, look at the state of affairs in the Republic at the minute - they're certainly not 'doing just fine'. I don't think that's enough of a basis to be dismissing re-unification to be quite honest.

FlutterinBantam

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Obviously you never met a nationalist from the six counties.

:eek: I'll bet he's glad on that one.

McNulty32

The liberation of the 6 counties is and should always be the main concern of the Irish people, and it will not come about from compromise with a British/Unionist junta, the Brits have no intention to disengage from the North and the 26 counties have no interest in claiming the 6 counties, it is up to the people regardless of religion or creed to strive for the true republic, declared Easter 1916, some may say thats a pipedream or old fashioned, well live a day as a nationalist in Belfast or Derry city, having to put up with 'section 44' and you may change your mind.

Its very disenchanting aswell to see so many here took in by the Brit establishment and pro-British/anti-republican media in its attempt to tarnish republicanism, with all these assumptions that republicans are nothing more then criminals, has anyone actual proof of republicans being involved in criminality, or has any republican ever being convicted of criminal activity, I think you'll find the answer to both is no!

Remmet

moonpurple wrote: »

you can travel anywhere in ireland, the border is not sealed, blink and you will miss it,

any other aspects are cosmetic

lots of talk of an gaeilge at stormont recently

there aint no gaeilge in Dublin just pockets among elite groups,

this is as united an ireland as it ever has been

that td in kenmare gets a hospital....

local tribal splintered Ireland.... not even God himself could unite this hotch potch of traditions now further bamboozled by eastern europeans and other folks....

get over it, forget about it..northern nationalists will not be too keen to hitch this crocked economy to their stronger local economy in a big hurry..

only dolites and criminals and smugglers are in rira and cira.. mainstream northern nationalists are as skeptical about 'de south' as the orange loyal lodges

I've put this in bold because it is the only part of your post that has any place in reality. You, clearly, have never spent any time up north; a shopping trip in Newry the height of your experience. The situation in the North could not be further removed from a normal life in the south.

And that comment about Irish in Dublin?? Are you deaf or blind or both? What a ridiculously uninformed thing to say

Oh to answer the thread I am of course in favor of a united Ireland and it would be nice if we could get it peacefully

DoireNod

moonpurple wrote: »

you can travel anywhere in ireland, the border is not sealed, blink and you will miss it

So? Part of the island is still under British control, albeit with increasing devolution.

moonpurple wrote: »

this is as united an ireland as it ever has been

Since partition maybe.

moonpurple wrote: »

get over it, forget about it.

That's highly disingenuous, to be frank.

moonpurple wrote: »

only dolites and criminals and smugglers are in rira and cira..

Only 'dolites'? How do you know?

moonpurple wrote: »

mainstream northern nationalists are as skeptical about 'de south' as the orange loyal lodges

'[M]ainstream' nationalists are skeptical of a southern Government and people that pay only lip service to the Irish people of the north or nothing at all. I don't blame them either, when people come out with posts such as yours.

LordSutch

Remmet wrote: »

Oh to answer the thread I am of course in favor of a united Ireland and it would be nice if we could get it peacefully

Indeed, but in the contest of my previous post, would you govern the whole island as 'one entity' ??? (close Stormont) or, are there natural cultural divisions on the island that are best catered for by having two parlaiments, as we currently do!

lugha

McNulty32 wrote: »

The liberation of the 6 counties is and should always be the main concern of the Irish people

No liberation required. The constitutional position up there is as the majority in NI want it.

McNulty32 wrote: »

and the 26 counties have no interest in claiming the 6 counties

If the people of the "26 counties" have no interest in claiming the 6 counties then perhaps you should accept the will of the people? Do you believe in democracy? Perhaps republicans should practice what they preach about allowing the Irish people to decide the future of this island?

McNulty32 wrote: »

some may say thats a pipedream or old fashioned

No, we (well I anyway) ask repeatedly what problem will a united Ireland fix that could not be fixed in any other way and I get decidedly unconvincing answers.

McNulty32

lugha wrote: »

No liberation required. The constitutional position up there is as the majority in NI want it.


If the people of the "26 counties" have no interest in claiming the 6 counties then perhaps you should accept the will of the people? Do you believe in democracy? Perhaps republicans should practice what they preach about allowing the Irish people to decide the future of this island?


No, we (well I anyway) ask repeatedly what problem will a united Ireland fix that could not be fixed in any other way and I get decidedly unconvincing answers.

The 'constitutional' position of the British government and its unionist underlings means very little to republicans, republicans do not recognise the partitionist bodies in the occupied six counties therefore this position is not relevant in the slightest to me, the so called progress made in the last few years being celebrated by the Brits, Unionists, Freestaters and even the Provisionals is based on a sectarian headcount, only the position of the Irish people as a whole matter, and I think you'll find that the vast majority favor Irish Unity in some form.

When I say 26-counties, I do not reference all in the state, Im referencing the establishment in the South, Leinster House etc,

A United Ireland should not be about 'fixing a problem' as you put it, and should not be looked on as what can be gained or lost, a United Ireland should be the aspiration of all Irish citizens to maintain the dignity of our race and to solve our national question, you may not be concerned about part of your country being forcibly held to ransom by a foreign power, but I do care.

MavisDavis

McNulty32 wrote: »

The liberation of the 6 counties is and should always be the main concern of the Irish people, and it will not come about from compromise with a British/Unionist junta, the Brits have no intention to disengage from the North and the 26 counties have no interest in claiming the 6 counties, it is up to the people regardless of religion or creed to strive for the true republic, declared Easter 1916, some may say thats a pipedream or old fashioned, well live a day as a nationalist in Belfast or Derry city, having to put up with 'section 44' and you may change your mind.

Its very disenchanting aswell to see so many here took in by the Brit establishment and pro-British/anti-republican media in its attempt to tarnish republicanism, with all these assumptions that republicans are nothing more then criminals, has anyone actual proof of republicans being involved in criminality, or has any republican ever being convicted of criminal activity, I think you'll find the answer to both is no!

How contrived.. words fail.

McNulty32

MavisDavis wrote: »

How contrived.. words fail.

Please elaborate.

LordSutch

McNulty32 wrote: »

a United Ireland should be the aspiration of all Irish citizens to maintain the dignity of our race and to solve our national question, you may not be concerned about part of your country being forcibly held to ransom by a foreign power, but I do care.

The dignity of our race? therein lies the problem, they aint your race! (I presume you mean Nationality) & as for "being forcibly held to ransom"

We all care, but constantly telling the North that they must be the same race as you, with the same aspirations, while being part of the same (your) country, is not going to change the reality of the situation (same race or not)

P.S. The National question? you mean the one (articles 2&3) that used to lay claim the whole of Ulster? (Pre 1998).

MavisDavis

McNulty32 wrote: »

The liberation of the 6 counties

Free, democratic jurisdictions do not need liberation. Argue with that all you like, but the people over N1 voted nearly 100% in favour of the Union last time they were asked. That figure wouldn't have been so high if Nationalists hadn't been stubborn and refused to vote.

McNulty32 wrote: »

is and should always be the main concern of the Irish people

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is absolutely NOT the main concern of the Irish people.

McNulty32 wrote: »

and it will not come about from compromise with a British/Unionist junta

Democratic means is the only way it'll ever come about, actually. Read Bunreacht na hEireann sometime.

McNulty32 wrote: »

the Brits have no intention to disengage from the North and the 26 counties have no interest in claiming the 6 counties

The British promised to maintain the Union (note: union, not dictatorship or occupation) with Northern Ireland until such time that the Northern Irish people indicate via a democratic vote that they wish to leave said Union.
The Republic of Ireland renounce its territorial claim on NI in favour of an end to The Troubles. That decision was made by the Irish people. They over-ruled your assertions of "occupation" and us supposedly owning NI. The will of the majority > you. That's just how it is.

McNulty32 wrote: »

it is up to the people regardless of religion or creed to strive for the true republic, declared Easter 1916, some may say thats a pipedream or old fashioned, well live a day as a nationalist in Belfast or Derry city, having to put up with 'section 44' and you may change your mind.

You'll need to convince the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to vote for that.

McNulty32 wrote: »

Its very disenchanting aswell to see so many here took in by the Brit establishment and pro-British/anti-republican media in its attempt to tarnish republicanism, with all these assumptions that republicans are nothing more then criminals, has anyone actual proof of republicans being involved in criminality, or has any republican ever being convicted of criminal activity, I think you'll find the answer to both is no!

It's even more disenchanting to see people still peddling backwards, anti-British bs like this, actually. I'd like to see you prove that claim that no republic has "ever been convicted of criminal activity". I highly doubt you'll be able to. They ARE criminals: terrorism, membership of an illegal organisation, intimidation, money-laundering, assault, murder - I'd class those are criminal activities, wouldn't you?

paky

To hell with what the Irish people want. Irish people only back republicans when it suits them

lugha

McNulty32 wrote: »

The 'constitutional' position of the British government and its unionist underlings means very little to republicans, republicans do not recognise the partitionist bodies in the occupied six counties therefore this position is not relevant in the slightest to me,

If you were a democrat (like me ), it would be relevant because the vast majority of the people on this island backed the good Friday agreement which acknowledges British rule in NI.

McNulty32 wrote: »

the so called progress made in the last few years being celebrated by the Brits, Unionists, Freestaters and even the Provisionals is based on a sectarian headcount,

Don’t be knocking sectarian head counts! That is exactly how this nonsense of a united Ireland will come about.

McNulty32 wrote: »

A United Ireland should not be about 'fixing a problem' as you put it, and should not be looked on as what can be gained or lost, a United Ireland should be the aspiration of all Irish citizens to maintain the dignity of our race and to solve our national question

Meaningless soundbiting. Dignity of our race? Solve the national question? The depressing thing is that this is about as good an argument for a UI that you will get from republicans.

McNulty32 wrote: »

you may not be concerned about part of your country being forcibly held to ransom by a foreign power, but I do care.

NI is not my country, never had been.

RandomName2

MavisDavis wrote: »

"has anyone actual proof of republicans being involved in criminality, or has any republican ever being convicted of criminal activity, I think you'll find the answer to both is no!"

'nuff said :rolleyes:

paky

what difference does it make. Any true Irishman who has any sense of his history and heritage knows that Britains involvment in Ireland is illegal and unjust and her supporters are the real criminals on this island.

lugha

paky wrote: »

Britains involvment in Ireland is illegal

Can you tell us the specific law that Britain is violating or can you tell us how you can justify asserting that their involvement in illegal when the vast majority of nationalists backed the GFA, which acknowledges British rule in NI?

Rjas

we hav failed to manage the 26 counties we have, Its United and Bolton this wkend in the Reebok stadium anyone what time?

Fratton Fred

did an alarm clock just go off in the Sinn Fein dormitory, something has just woken them up:D

moonpurple

mcnulty 32, failte go dti boards, however you need to alter your username as you have forgotten the two new leinster counties of fingal and dun laoighaire rathdown,

In reply to OP the people of the island of Ireland united over every county to say Yes to the good friday agreement

that is the answer to your question

getz

why a 32 counties republic ? by saying that you are telling the citizens in northern ireland that the only way forward is on your terms,

McNulty32

Fratton Fred wrote: »

did an alarm clock just go off in the Sinn Fein dormitory, something has just woken them up:D

Sinn Fein like Fianna Fail and the Workers party before them, have been swayed by the power and riches that come with constitutionalism, therefore no longer represent the Irish republican ideology in its true form, Id go as far to say they have betrayed the concept of the republic and are now an obstacle to real republicans.

dasium

does matter post Lisbon II? European nationalism is miles ahead of individual state nationalism....

McNulty32

Free, democratic jurisdictions do not need liberation. Argue with that all you like, but the people over N1 voted nearly 100% in favour of the Union last time they were asked. That figure wouldn't have been so high if Nationalists hadn't been stubborn and refused to vote.

There is nothing 'free or democratic' regarding the position of the occupied 6 counties, with over 20,000 active British troops, British intelligence operatives and paramilitary police stationed there to quell any opposition to the illegality of the state itself, sectarianism and repression of free thought is rife in the North, should you ever choose to take the 2 and half hour drive to visit that part of your country.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is absolutely NOT the main concern of the Irish people.

I disagree with you there completely, I think in the back of most Irish peoples minds, national sovereignty is a concern.

Democratic means is the only way it'll ever come about, actually. Read Bunreacht na hEireann sometime.

To be honest, the 26 county state and its documents and policies do not concern me, I wouldnt wipe my a*se with 'Bunreacht na hEireann', I have no time for the institutions or structures for this cowardly banana half republic, who sat there and said nothing while fellow Irishman and women were burned of out there homes by British army and loyalist pograms, I suggest you have a glance at the UN's human rights commitee's general comment 21 that states:
'that all peoples have the right to determine freely their political status and their place in the international community based on the principle of equal rights and exemplified by the liberation of peoples from colonialism and by the prohibition to subject peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation.'

And:
“…the rights of all peoples to pursue freely their economic, social and cultural development without outside interference.''

Britain is in clear breach of international law which forbids the repression of the democratic will of a people to national sovereignty and economic freedom's, Britain is not living up to is obligations and should respect the fundamental and non-negotiable right of the Irish people.

The British promised to maintain the Union (note: union, not dictatorship or occupation) with Northern Ireland until such time that the Northern Irish people indicate via a democratic vote that they wish to leave said Union.
The Republic of Ireland renounce its territorial claim on NI in favour of an end to The Troubles. That decision was made by the Irish people. They over-ruled your assertions of "occupation" and us supposedly owning NI. The will of the majority > you. That's just how it is.

Whatever you wrap it up in , it is a military occupation pure and simple, as stated above, 20'000 active British troops, M15 personnel and militia police, the Irish people have the right to ignore any partitionist establishments or policies regarding the Norths position, it is only the opinion of the Irish people as a whole in terms of the 32 counties that counts, the mandates layed down by the Brits, the enemy of Irish sovereignty and the illegal occupying power quite frankly means f*ck all to republicans, the GFA was a lemon sold to the people, and I think the public are aware of that now at long last(nationalist, unionist and otherwise), resistance to British rule will always be, as Pearse the only legal president of Ireland said 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', 'thats just how it is', you and your unionist pro-British allies will have to get used to that fact.

You'll need to convince the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to vote for that.

Dont worry with the way things are going North and South, it wont be hard

It's even more disenchanting to see people still peddling backwards, anti-British bs like this, actually. I'd like to see you prove that claim that no republic has "ever been convicted of criminal activity". I highly doubt you'll be able to. They ARE criminals: terrorism, membership of an illegal organisation, intimidation, money-laundering, assault, murder - I'd class those are criminal activities, wouldn't you?

It would be right to label me 'peddling backwards, anti-British' etc if the national question had been solved, but the occupation of the North continues therefore my opinion is valid I reckon,

And republicans convicted in 26 county or British courts of crimes related to republican or combatant activities are not criminals but POWs, who serve their time as such, republicans do not stand for criminalisation of our cause with bogus laws being enforced to quell resistance,
If you have any real evidence of republicans being involved in crime outside political/revolutionary activity such as the money-laundering and assault claims you make please present it.

Sykk

Well it would only fuel the animosity between Prodestants and Catholic extremists (IRA - UVF) so it will never happen - but back to the question at hand.. No I wouldn't like it because then I couldn't go up north for my cheap beer and Christmas shopping!

getz

the EU and the UN do not believe that northern ireland is a foreign occupied state, in fact the european parliiament state ,says it is up to the will of the people who will decide their future[that is the way it is,and that is the way it should be],that was in a letter sent to me from the EU parliament four years ago.if any of you think that a non catholic would be better of as part of the republic, just think about this , the republic cannot afford free non catholic schools health and welfare,so your childs place in a school could depend on whether or not there is no catholic child wants it first,also in the passed,available beds in hospitals for non catholics have also met the same problem ,no lots of change needs to happen in the republic to attract northern people,and thats not even talking about giving a national health service,

lugha

McNulty32 wrote: »

There is nothing 'free or democratic' regarding the position of the occupied 6 counties, with over 20,000 active British troops, British intelligence operatives and paramilitary police stationed there to quell any opposition to the illegality of the state itself

There is nothing amiss with British being in a region which is ruled by Britain. Nationalists have accepted that so again I ask you on what basis is Britain's presence in NI illegal given that the majority there want to be ruled by Britain and the vast vast majority of people on this island have accepted this .

McNulty32 wrote: »

sectarianism

A united Ireland won't end this. Will make things much worse IMO.

McNulty32 wrote: »

repression of free thought

Rubbish. You just said that because it sounded good.

McNulty32 wrote: »

that part of your country.

Again, that is your country if you want to think of it as such. But it is not mine any more than Scotland or England are. The island of Ireland has never been a single independent political entity. Reunification is impossible because Ireland was never unified in the first place. What you are proposing is a hostile land grab.

McNulty32 wrote: »

the Irish people have the right to ignore any partitionist establishments or policies regarding the Norths position, it is only the opinion of the Irish people as a whole in terms of the 32 counties that counts, the mandates layed down by the Brits, the enemy of Irish sovereignty and the illegal occupying power quite frankly means f*ck all to republicans, the GFA was a lemon sold to the people, and I think the public are aware of that now at long last(nationalist, unionist and otherwise), resistance to British rule will always be, as Pearse the only legal president of Ireland said 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', 'thats just how it is', you and your unionist pro-British allies will have to get used to that fact.

Ah well, there you have it. Scratch some republicans and you'll find a fascist. Despite its overwhelming democratic support, the GFA can be set aside because out superior republican friends have decided the Irish people are a bit too thick to decide these things themselves (and with a mind-boggling irony deficit, will criticize Britain for its past imperial ways!). As for Pearse (you have a very strange understanding of “legal”!), he like you, felt he could purport to act no behalf of the people without their support. Happily, his reputation is being revised and downgraded to one more fitting for someone with such a disdain for democracy.

Fratton Fred

McNulty, your posts sound like the brain washed rantings of the Hitler youth. Can you maybe make them sound a bit more like your own thoughts and opinions and a little less like you have swallowed the RSF manifesto.

I think you may be about 20 years out of date as well.

McNulty32

There is nothing amiss with British being in a region which is ruled by Britain. Nationalists have accepted that so again I ask you on what basis is Britain's presence in NI illegal given that the majority there want to be ruled by Britain and the vast vast majority of people on this island have accepted this .

Ireland is a nation that consists of four provinces, Ulster, Leinster, Connaught and Munster, in total there are 32 counties in Ireland, therefore the 6 counties is not a British region, it is region that is occupied by Britain just like Iraq, and that has been the case for aslong as modern history has recorded, just because Britain claim it theirs dosent make it so, maybe you have swallowed that, but the majority of this Island havent and support the concept of a United Ireland.
And how very ill informed and ignorant you are to the situation of the North just 2 hours up the road from you, the nationalist community(and the vast majority of the populace of the Sorth except you obviously) have in no way shape or form endorsed or accepted British rule, supposed political parties may entertained Whitehall in Sotrmont, but not the nationalist community, a good example of this is the difficulty the British militia police the PSNI/RUC have in entering nationalist areas, because the population of theses areas completely resent the presence of British police in their communities and oppose it, despite the Brits, staters and reformists attempts to make the PSNI/RUC 'normal'.

A united Ireland won't end this. Will make things much worse IMO.

Wrong again, have you ever read the proclamation of the republic: The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

Rubbish. You just said that because it sounded good.

No sir, it sounding good doesnt have anything to do with it, Colin Duffy, Terry McCafferty, Brian Shivers, JP Wooton, and currently Gerry McGeough, all men who are currently being interned, convicted of no crime, with no trial in sight, being held because they have an opinion.
Or maybe the endless house raids, beatings, orange marches, stop searched that are inflicted on the nationalist community, is something you claim is 'rubbish'

Again, that is your country if you want to think of it as such. But it is not mine any more than Scotland or England are. The island of Ireland has never been a single independent political entity. Reunification is impossible because Ireland was never unified in the first place. What you are proposing is a hostile land grab.

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No I am proposing withdrawal by a foreign occupying force from our native and ancient land

Ah well, there you have it. Scratch some republicans and you'll find a fascist. Despite its overwhelming democratic support, the GFA can be set aside because out superior republican friends have decided the Irish people are a bit too thick to decide these things themselves (and with a mind-boggling irony deficit, will criticize Britain for its past imperial ways!). As for Pearse (you have a very strange understanding of “legal”!), he like you, felt he could purport to act no behalf of the people without their support. Happily, his reputation is being revised and downgraded to one more fitting for someone with such a disdain for democracy

If you claim Irish citizenship, Id advise you to revoke it, as you have no right to call yourself such, with your claims that Irelands first and only real president is someone you look down on, fact is you wouldnt be fit to lick his boots, Pearse and comrades were responsible for turning the tide of public opinion with their deaths, that was the whole point of the rising.

And the GFA has now being proved to be a heap of sh*te, as most nationalist and infact unionists up North will tell you, it was sold with appealing bullet points with the fineprint well hidden, people areant blind to empty promises anymore from Britain and the cowardly South, the GFA is dead and any attempts to bring in a replacement for it wont pass this time.

McNulty32

Fratton Fred wrote: »

McNulty, your posts sound like the brain washed rantings of the Hitler youth. Can you maybe make them sound a bit more like your own thoughts and opinions and a little less like you have swallowed the RSF manifesto.

I think you may be about 20 years out of date as well.

No my friend, British rule is alive and well, and aslong as thats the case my opinion is more then valid.

And Im not a member of RSF, but I support their position, I actually find them abit old fashioned believe it or not, in their elitism that they are the only true republican movement and such, but none the less they are true republicans.

The thoughts and opinions I have given are my own I assure you.

getz

McNulty32 wrote: »

No my friend, British rule is alive and well, and aslong as thats the case my opinion is more then valid.

And Im not a member of RSF, but I support their position, I actually find them abit old fashioned believe it or not, in their elitism that they are the only true republican movement and such, but none the less they are true republicans.

The thoughts and opinions I have given are my own I assure you.

oliver cromwell was a republican,even then the irish dident like him

Fratton Fred

McNulty32 wrote: »

No my friend, British rule is alive and well, and aslong as thats the case my opinion is more then valid.

And Im not a member of RSF, but I support their position, I actually find them abit old fashioned believe it or not, in their elitism that they are the only true republican movement and such, but none the less they are true republicans.

The thoughts and opinions I have given are my own I assure you.

I know British rule is alive and well, because that is the will of the people.

Remind me again how Pearse became the first true president?

I'd also be interested in where the 20,000 strong army of occupation came from, or are the locally recruited, soon to be devolved, PSNI part of this army?

All you are doing my friend is giving people excuses to bring back the bad old days of violence. From your words and the fact they are hopelessly romantic, I would hazard a guess and say you probably don't remember those days and if you think for a minute that anyone but the deranged few want to bring them back then you are badly mistaken.

Do you live in the north? If so, ask your friends, family and neighbours about your undemocratic plans. If you are not from the north, then what the hell do you think gives you the right to bring that to those people.

McNulty32

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know British rule is alive and well, because that is the will of the people.

Remind me again how Pearse became the first true president?

I'd also be interested in where the 20,000 strong army of occupation came from, or are the locally recruited, soon to be devolved, PSNI part of this army?

All you are doing my friend is giving people excuses to bring back the bad old days of violence. From your words and the fact they are hopelessly romantic, I would hazard a guess and say you probably don't remember those days and if you think for a minute that anyone but the deranged few want to bring them back then you are badly mistaken.

Do you live in the north? If so, ask your friends, family and neighbours about your undemocratic plans. If you are not from the north, then what the hell do you think gives you the right to bring that to those people.

Your attitude is typical of someone who is not interested in the situation of the North and for convenience choose to ignore it, swallowing the 'normalisation' everything is alright lie.

British rule is not the will of the people on this island as a whole, so Britain undemocratically is rejecting the Irish peoples wishes, using a unionist veto to cling on to the North, the GFA was not about whether the population North and South support British rule or not.

Pearse was made president of the republic, by adhering to the terms of the republic unlike the current establishment that measure the republic in partitionist terms.

And there are officially 12.000 active British troops in Ireland, over 1000 MI5 and British intelligence personnel, and 5000 approx PSNI/RUC militia

I wouldnt be old enough to remember the early stages of the conflict, but remember the later stages well, and am not from the North, but as an Irishman and citizen of Ireland I find it my duty to stand by my fellow Irish citizens who live under Brit rule.

maggy_thatcher

McNulty32 wrote: »

Ireland is a nation that consists of four provinces, Ulster, Leinster, Connaught and Munster, in total there are 32 counties in Ireland, therefore the 6 counties is not a British region

Ireland has never been an independent nation in its entirety. The only time it was governed by one all-island government was back when the Kingdom of Ireland (with the British king as its monarch) was around. I'm assuming you don't want that again? The 4 provinces have nothing to do with dictating how the country is laid out.

McNulty32 wrote: »

it is region that is occupied by Britain just like Iraq, and that has been the case for aslong as modern history has recorded, just because Britain claim it theirs dosent make it so, maybe you have swallowed that, but the majority of this Island havent and support the concept of a United Ireland.

The majority of the people in the region want to stay British. Until you can convince them otherwise, that's the way it'll stay.

McNulty32 wrote: »

Wrong again, have you ever read the proclamation of the republic: The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

And Britain is a signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees all of those same facilities -- so what's your point?

McNulty32 wrote: »

No sir, it sounding good doesnt have anything to do with it, Colin Duffy, Terry McCafferty, Brian Shivers, JP Wooton, and currently Gerry McGeough, all men who are currently being interned, convicted of no crime, with no trial in sight, being held because they have an opinion.
Or maybe the endless house raids, beatings, orange marches, stop searched that are inflicted on the nationalist community, is something you claim is 'rubbish'

Colin Duffy & Brian Shivers murdered two unarmed soldiers, and wounded an innocent pizza delivery man just trying to do an honest days work. Gerry McGeough is an arms dealer who tried to murder a politician -- if these are your examples of great people from the north you can keep it.

McNulty32 wrote: »

No I am proposing withdrawal by a foreign occupying force from our native and ancient land

It's as much theirs as it is "ours".

McNulty32 wrote: »

If you claim Irish citizenship, Id advise you to revoke it, as you have no right to call yourself such, with your claims that Irelands first and only real president is someone you look down on, fact is you wouldnt be fit to lick his boots, Pearse and comrades were responsible for turning the tide of public opinion with their deaths, that was the whole point of the rising.

Actually I think you're the one who should probably revoke your Irish citizenship -- as you said you don't believe the constitution is valid and that the current government (as voted by the people of Ireland) is a sham - you shouldn't be entitled to the benefits of that government, but that's just my opinion.
And it was the British who stupidly killed the leaders one at a time, slowly and publicly. that turned the tide of public opinion. What they should've done is just brought them round the back and shot them all in one line quietly...what Pearse et al did was stupid (not waiting until they got the rest of their guns), but what the British government did at the time was even dumber.

lugha

McNulty32 wrote: »

the nationalist community(and the vast majority of the populace of the Sorth except you obviously) have in no way shape or form endorsed or accepted British rule

Yes they have . The did so when they backed the GFA. If you accepted democracy (which you clearly don't) you would respect this.

McNulty32 wrote: »

Wrong again, have you ever read the proclamation of the republic: The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

I see. So all we need do is get the boys down the Shankill to read this and they'll give up their 'aul sectarian ways? :rolleyes: Your delusion goes well beyond humorous and is well in to scary territory.

McNulty32 wrote: »

Or maybe the endless house raids, beatings, orange marches, stop searched that are inflicted on the nationalist community, is something you claim is 'rubbish'

No but the idea of repressing free thought is, again I say, rubbish.

McNulty32 wrote: »

If you claim Irish citizenship, Id advise you to revoke it, as you have no right to call yourself such, with your claims that Irelands first and only real president is someone you look down on, fact is you wouldnt be fit to lick his boots.

Pearse was not “our” president. “Bags I president” is a fun game to play as a child but when you grow up you need a mandate for something like that. (I know, I know. I keep bringing up this obscence democracy notion). As for licking his boots, well I think his tastes were more towards chaps considerably younger than me, if his own poems are anything to go by.

McNulty32 wrote: »

Pearse and comrades were responsible for turning the tide of public opinion with their deaths, that was the whole point of the rising.

If the British had let them rot in jail and had not made the mistake of making martyrs of them then they would be a footnote in history. And I doubt if they could have anticipated the Brtis making such an error. The fact is, Pearse, or no one else has the authority to act on behalf of anyone without their consent. He is no different than the various dissidents who refuse to accept the will of the people (although I expect you will agree with me on this score)

McNulty32 wrote: »

And the GFA has now being proved to be a heap of sh*te, as most nationalist and infact unionists up North will tell you, it was sold with appealing bullet points with the fineprint well hidden, people areant blind to empty promises anymore from Britain and the cowardly South, the GFA is dead and any attempts to bring in a replacement for it wont pass this time.

Again, your disdain for democracy is showing. If you are not prepared to let the people decide on their future then how are we to proceed? Could I not seek to aggressively establish a new political order, with out any support for the people, on the basis that they might one day agree with me? That such perverse, twisted logic is routinely presented as reasonably by republicans is the legacy Pearse had left us.
And there is absolutely no question of the GFA being replaced. Where would you get such a notion?

Sykk

Fratton Fred wrote: »

McNulty, your posts sound like the brain washed rantings of the Hitler youth. Can you maybe make them sound a bit more like your own thoughts and opinions and a little less like you have swallowed the RSF manifesto.

I think you may be about 20 years out of date as well.

Hitler was the first thing that came to mind when I started reading his posts aswel. Oh deary!

McNulty stop embarrasing yourself. You're on the internet so you obviously know what century it is.

moonpurple

McNulty32 wrote: »

Your attitude is typical of someone who is not interested in the situation of the North and for convenience choose to ignore it, swallowing the 'normalisation' everything is alright lie.

British rule is not the will of the people on this island as a whole, so Britain undemocratically is rejecting the Irish peoples wishes, using a unionist veto to cling on to the North, the GFA was not about whether the population North and South support British rule or not.

Pearse was made president of the republic, by adhering to the terms of the republic unlike the current establishment that measure the republic in partitionist terms.

And there are officially 12.000 active British troops in Ireland, over 1000 MI5 and British intelligence personnel, and 5000 approx PSNI/RUC militia

I wouldnt be old enough to remember the early stages of the conflict, but remember the later stages well, and am not from the North, but as an Irishman and citizen of Ireland I find it my duty to stand by my fellow Irish citizens who live under Brit rule.

5000 psni? would that include the new 32 county policeman Paul Moran, only Garda authorized to carry a weapon, based in Belfast, son of a former head of the Gardai,

McNulty if he was murdered by the rira or cira would you regard that as a continuation of the Easter rising of 1916

getz

make the lie big,make it simple ,keep saying it,and eventually they will believe it;....ADOLF HITLER. all propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach...ADOLF HITLER