Waterford City Restaurants (2010 - Present)

deisemum

If they do not want to bother replying to emails then they shouldn't put their email address on their website with the usual Contact Us.

The only place that replied was Chez K's and they have a lovely menu but we're going outside the city as my son wants to go where one of his friends is going.

I do intend going to Chez K's in the near future but I will not be in any rush to the places that cannot be bothered to reply to people.

itsonlywords

deisemum wrote: »

If they do not want to bother replying to emails then they shouldn't put their email address on their website with the usual Contact Us.

The only place that replied was Chez K's and they have a lovely menu but we're going outside the city as my son wants to go where one of his friends is going.

I do intend going to Chez K's in the near future but I will not be in any rush to the places that cannot be bothered to reply to people.

Totally agree with you but I sent a few emails to business premises in town and got few replies. I find that phone contact is better.Good luck in your quest.Have a lovely day and hope the weather treats you well.

STM

JPA wrote: »

That place is a real hidden gem, no doubt the best burgers in the city.

New York Burger Co really is one of the best places to eat in the city! It's good craic on a Saturday night aswell, and it says on their Facebook page that their chicken wings are the same recipe as Elephent & Castle in Temple Bar, they're deadly!

Straycat

had a visit to wongsons chinese in high st (used to be johny fans) recently. it was fab. they do an all u can eat supper which works by you get a mixed platter for a starter to share then if you finish this totally you can get another starter each, then mains the same, if you finish that you get another! tea or coffee for €20 per person. really good value, the single course is plenty. they are very helpfull in there, i am vegetarian and never had as much choice as they gave me. i would well recommend it.

Trotter

STM wrote: »

New York Burger Co really is one of the best places to eat in the city! It's good craic on a Saturday night aswell, and it says on their Facebook page that their chicken wings are the same recipe as Elephent & Castle in Temple Bar, they're deadly!

I have to agree. I absolutely love that little place. The chicken wings are the business. You get plenty of them (I hate mean portions anywhere) and the burgers are really nice. Its one of those places where you really get good value for the money you spend. I wasn't a fan of the chicken gougons I had in there one day, but theres so much on the menu now that theres always something I'd feel like having a go of.

tonc76

I met a friend in Harlequin cafe, Stephen Street for lunch on Monday and was really surprised at how great it was. Didn't really know what to expect from the place or menu and both of us opted for €10 specials from the blackboard. Excellent food, lovely sauces and a real fresh taste to everything. The guys working there were a great help too and I'll be visiting again this weekend

kayaksurfbum

Harlequin is great. Iv only been there for lunch but it's allways good. Coffee is amazing there. Iv yet to go for an evening meal, soon hopefully.

deisemum

STM wrote: »

New York Burger Co really is one of the best places to eat in the city! It's good craic on a Saturday night aswell, and it says on their Facebook page that their chicken wings are the same recipe as Elephent & Castle in Temple Bar, they're deadly!

Is that the place opposite the main entrance to the park?

My son made his confirmation today, we went to The Strand in Dunmore East and it was excellent. Everyone enjoyed it and came away full and happy.

JPA

deisemum wrote: »

Is that the place opposite the main entrance to the park?

Yes.

AdMMM

Tried the Jade Palaces' Early Bird on Sunday. €16.50 for Starter, Main Course, Dessert and Tea or Coffee. Only 4 or 5 starters to choose from (2 types of soup, Spring Roll and a Shrimp Cocktail are the ones I remember) but there was a fine selection of main courses. I settled for Spring Onion and Ginger Stir Fry with nice big chunks of monkfish. Desserts are never something you expect much from in a Chinese but the presence of banana and pineapple fritters was a nice addition to the cheesecake and profiteroles that usually plague the dessert menus of all restaurants.

Service was very efficient but I have to admit it was very strange. One of the girls seemed to be taking a great interest in the affairs of others in the restaurant and making lots of conversation. When it came to us, however, she was leaving cutlery and plates at the opposite side of the table and not bothering to position it for us. The other staff were fantastic though and I would have happily paid a lot more for the food!

wmpdd3

Took me ages to find this place, searches keep bringing up places in NY!

Hope it's ok to leave a link, I'm going to try this place tomorrow, I'll report back later.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-Ireland/New-York-Burger-Grill-Co/108002269228861#!/photo.php?pid=146844&id=108002269228861&fbid=109603719068716

dermo909

I went to the uluru yesterday evening for food and pints and I was pleasantly surprised to see their menu had changed. It has'nt changed a whole lot but theres new things like crispy duck and sizzling chicken on the menu. I dont know if that is due to the chinese upstairs being closed but it was nice to see.
I had the 8oz burger with bacon and cheese and it was fab. They may have changed the recipe for it becuase it was pretty good yesterday.
They seem to be doing homecut chips too. They were lovely and served with relish on the side
I cant remember if I mentioned the new york burger company in an earlier post but the place is so good I'll mention it again here! Best burger in the city bar none but that uluru burger last night comes a close second.

abouttobebanned

haha you have to laugh at crispy duck and sizzling chicken being new additions to the menu.

wmpdd3

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Took me ages to find this place, searches keep bringing up places in NY!

Hope it's ok to leave a link, I'm going to try this place tomorrow, I'll report back later.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-Ireland/New-York-Burger-Grill-Co/108002269228861#!/photo.php?pid=146844&id=108002269228861&fbid=109603719068716

Went there today, really impressed. Lovely decor, great service and the food was perfect. Burgers are enough on their own but of course I had to have the starters and chips all lovely.

Don't know why I didn't go there before, think it's because I couldn't see in and didn't know what kind of place it was. But ill be back again.

They had a poster for a special on the wall: 5pm - 9pm: burger, chips and beer for €9.95.

durrus

Think about it another way - you book to stay in Cliff House and then when you try to book a table for dinner, they haven't got one for you because they have all been taken by people not staying in the hotel - how annoyed would you feel now?

Also, you can't compare Cliff House to the Raddisson in Manchester which is a much larger and primarily business hotel with fairly rubbish food it has to be said - the last time I stayed there we went for a pizza rather than eat the overpriced 'hotel' food for a second night. Cliff House is a true 5 Star experience on every level and compares more with a top hotel on the Amalfi Coast or Cote D'azur than a souless business hotel in Manchester.

The Old Convent, btw, is fantastic, rooms, welcome, dinner, breakfast - all excellent but I'll be surprised if you find it any easier to get a table there on Saturday nights.

mozattack wrote: »

I went to Cliff House last summer and couldn't have been more impressed. It was two weeks after I had went to Chapter One and following the meal I commented on how it deserved a Michelin Star - low and behold, 2 months later it was awarded.

Anyway the point is...

When we visited we went on a Sat night and it wasn't very full. We said we would go again in the Summer instead of A Taste of Dublin and tried booking twice. We were told that because we weren't staying they couldn't offer us a table. I was shocked about this, even proposed moving out to July. They said that wasn't the point, if I wasn't staying I couldn't book a table and couldn't only be put on the waiting list. I would then be told not 1 month, not 1 week, not 3 days, but the night before if I had a seat there!!

I think this is a disgrace. She asked me I would stay and I said it wasn't an option* so I couldn't proceed with the booking. It is typical, one top restaurant around and you would have to remortgage for one night to get there. They must be doing well if they can turn down €160 - €180 from us for the meal and drinks!!!!!!!

(I am going to the Old Convent instead)

* the cheapest room there is €220. Yes its 5 star but there is nothing in Ardmore and it is only a bed to lie in after all. Remember would be in the restaurant and bar for the night so paying €220 to lie down is not for me. To add context, staying in the 5 star Radisson Edwardian in Manchester for €101 for the night.

anplaya

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Went there today, really impressed. Lovely decor, great service and the food was perfect. Burgers are enough on their own but of course I had to have the starters and chips all lovely.

Don't know why I didn't go there before, think it's because I couldn't see in and didn't know what kind of place it was. But ill be back again.

They had a poster for a special on the wall: 5pm - 9pm: burger, chips and beer for €9.95.

meanin to go down there for a while,might go in with the lack sat evening then so,people seem to think the grub is lovely down there

sorrywhat

Went to Belissimo last night for an early bed. Didnt really fancy cooking a dinner.
Had been there before about 2 years ago and I didnt really like it then.

But I have to say last night it was lovely. It was 2 courses for 20 quid but the food was really nice. And the dessert was amazing! I got coffee after which was also dam good.

I would recommend it if you are looking for somewhere casual where you will get good food.

deisemum

sorrywhat wrote: »

Went to Belissimo last night for an early bed. Didnt really fancy cooking a dinner.
Had been there before about 2 years ago and I didnt really like it then.

But I have to say last night it was lovely. It was 2 courses for 20 quid but the food was really nice. And the dessert was amazing! I got coffee after which was also dam good.

I would recommend it if you are looking for somewhere casual where you will get good food.

What did you have for dessert? My friends and I prefer desserts to starters so must check this out.

sorrywhat

deisemum wrote: »

What did you have for dessert? My friends and I prefer desserts to starters so must check this out.

I tasted both. We shared. So I had half a chocolate fudge cake with ice cream. I thought this was going to be really heavy but it wasn't. And the ice cream was really nice.

Then I had half a orange and chocolate cheesecake with a carmal flavoured base. This was amazing. The filling was so creamy and smooth. This was a little on the heavy side but it was my favourite of the two. This came with whipped cream.

JPA

Limeleaf offering ALL starters, ALL mains and Desserts for €5, €12 and €5 respectively.

Almost half price on some of their dishes, good stuff.

ilovetorun

I love The Cottage Bistro in Cheekpoint, I've been there a good few times. Their seafood is to die for, but they also do steaks and chicken dishes. Excellent choices of starters- duck sausage, barbecued salmon and gorgeous mussels in garlic butter.
I can never pass their seafood pie for mains but my other half loves the sirloin steak or the chicken curry.
We never have dessert so I cant comment on it
Overall its a lovely place-its a nice treat:)

al20v

ilovetorun wrote: »

I love The Cottage Bistro in Cheekpoint, I've been there a good few times. Their seafood is to die for,

I was there recently, and overall i had a lovely meal. But I was disappointed with the crab starter for nearly 12e.

-

During the week, I tired l'atmosphere for the early bird. 20e got you 3 courses and a glass a wine. I thought it was vgood value, and vgood food.

Had a lovely pizza and salad in Bellasimo recently..... it was delicious..

Plus one - this is where id go for pizza and they are very nice

mozattack

I agree with the previous poster on Cliff House and Old Convent. Basically now restaurant in Waterford compares. They are in a league of their own. Incredible - a must

(although Cliff House will not take reservations on Saturday nights unless you stay there now! .... disappointing)

next

Went to JD's steakhouse in Tramore tonight and was very impressed place looks great it use to be Hartlys I think, the staff are friendly without being over the top and are good at their job, the food was excellent, we ordered fillet and sirloin steaks which were served with a salad and baked or mashed potatoes or chips, 1 glass of the house wine a baileys and espresso coffee bill came to around 60

ilovetorun

Went to the New York Burger Co Friday night after reading the rec's here and I totally agree-got to be the best burger in town!
We had the chicken wings to start with and I was sorry I got them to share, they were out of this world! Nice spicy wings served with a cool blue cheese dip.Def a must
For mains I had the cheese burger and fries and the angus beef that's used in the burger was melt in your mouth good. Nice touch with the burger in a blaa, tasty cheese and relish served in the blaa

Excellent food, Excellent service, lovely restaurant-I will def be back!

molby

Had lunch in the Uluru today and it was rank.Had beef curry and the beef was about 3 days old,the curry sauce was rotten.Won't be back.

wmpdd3

ilovetorun wrote: »

Went to the New York Burger Co Friday night after reading the rec's here and I totally agree-got to be the best burger in town!
We had the chicken wings to start with and I was sorry I got them to share, they were out of this world! Nice spicy wings served with a cool blue cheese dip.Def a must
For mains I had the cheese burger and fries and the angus beef that's used in the burger was melt in your mouth good. Nice touch with the burger in a blaa, tasty cheese and relish served in the blaa

Excellent food, Excellent service, lovely restaurant-I will def be back!

I doubt anyone bar is really interested in this but they do a vaggi burger that is a portobello mushroom burger in a blaa which is georgous. Best veggi fast food in the city. OH loved all the meat he had there the other night.

Straycat

the portebello burger is fine, but we had the cheese starter as well, and both dishes were made from the same ingredients. lovely seperate but not together.

messynessie

Had dinner in the new chinese in the Manor Village complex. "Imperial Garden".
The restaurant is fantastically decorated, food was absolutely delicious and staff were very friendly.
Early bird menu 4 courses only £18.50 and the portions were huge!
Definitely worth checking out lads!

wellboytoo

La Taverna High street Excellent and reasonable
L'atmosphere Henrietta street, fine French Cuisine at reasonable rates.
La Bohembe O Connel st Fine White linen service, quality food in a wonderful setting, Fixed menu €35.00 all in, a once in a while treat but worth it.
The Lemontree Dunmore east deserts to die for
The Thai in the Saratoga Woodstown , best Pad Thai around
That's my top five in no particular order

Ms MEL

The new menu in Eddie Rocketts is pretty good and much better value than before. Now includes different salads, (the fajita one is so tasty and really filing), meatballs and chilli. Lots of meals for €10 or under and there are starters for €3!

Looking forward to trying the new Chinese by Manor Village, heard good things about it so far!

al20v

Had lunch in the Ivee in the Cove bar on the Dunmore Road during the weekend, Staff were very nice and the food was very good.

Recently had take out from Imperial Garden and wasn't impressed.The restaurant looks very nice, and the staff were friendly, but there's no reason why a sit down meal would be better?

gscully

I've had two take-outs and one sit-down meal at Imperial Garden and was very impressed. There's a great selection on the early-bird meal, so four courses for €18.50 is great value.

The staff were very friendly, one of them even came out to the lobby to help me entertain my son who wasn't happy in his high-chair. The surrounds and service were perfect.

The food was also lovely. The meat was very tender and the portions generous. Can't speak highly enough of it.

sorrywhat

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I doubt anyone bar is really interested in this but they do a vaggi burger that is a portobello mushroom burger in a blaa which is georgous. Best veggi fast food in the city. OH loved all the meat he had there the other night.

Sorry but lol. I know Im a big kid, no one else seemed to pick up on it!!

Was out in Jack meades recently and was fairly disappointed. The food out there is usually nice. I got the ranch burger with chips and salad. The chips werent cooked properly and the burger was incinerated along with the bun, the salad was okay though. Last time I was there the food was lovely.
I miss the way they used to have the open BBQ though. Its all done in a kitchen now.

detoxkid

ilovetorun wrote: »

Went to the New York Burger Co Friday night after reading the rec's here and I totally agree-got to be the best burger in town!
We had the chicken wings to start with and I was sorry I got them to share, they were out of this world! Nice spicy wings served with a cool blue cheese dip.Def a must
For mains I had the cheese burger and fries and the angus beef that's used in the burger was melt in your mouth good. Nice touch with the burger in a blaa, tasty cheese and relish served in the blaa

Excellent food, Excellent service, lovely restaurant-I will def be back!

MMMMMM that sounds yum. I'm staying in the Tower for work for a few days and this sound like the place to grab some food, would you mind telling me if Park Road is walkable from The Tower?

south

detoxkid wrote: »

MMMMMM that sounds yum. I'm staying in the Tower for work for a few days and this sound like the place to grab some food, would you mind telling me if Park Road is walkable from The Tower?

Take a left at the traffic lights at the front of the hotel and its about a 5 minute walk . Its on the left hand side just after the 3 ships pub

detoxkid

have to concur, the New York Burger Company is totally yum- the chips were particularly delicious nom nom

pocketvenus

Just wondering has anyone had the same experience as myself in L'atmosphere restaurant recently.

Firstly I love the food there and go there a good few times in a year. I always found the staff and service to be excellent as well as the food.

However on my last few visits I have to say the service has gone down hill and one particular member of the waiting staff has totally put me off going back there. The experience I had last week was the last straw.

Myself and 4 of my friends booked a table for the early bird menu 2 weeks in advance. When we went there and gave he name to the waitress she spent 5 plus mins looking in book and saying of how the writing was small an she could not make it out etc. Eventually she found it and sat us at a table before first rudely informing us where we could not sit. She then went off and seated other people who had come in behind us. After 25 mins of passing us and serving and taking orders from people who came in behind us we all reached breaking point. We tried to get her attention a number of times and she totally ignored us. After a final attempt to get her attention we all decided to get up and leave. When she saw us leaving she was like oh ladies, ladies but my friend who last last out politely told her we were leaving. We ended up going some place else for dinner and had a lovely time.
The waitress seemed to be on her own but including us there was only 10 people in restaurant so it is not like she was rushed off her feet and all she had to do was take our order and hand it in.

Talking to other people though and they have told me they have had similar experinces - nothing as bad as our's but rude waitress, not taking orders properly etc.

It is a pity as food is lovely down there and up to now I have never had a bad experience but I will go there again for a very long time or ever again. In the current times it is experinces like this they do not need. My friend who booked has rang the manager / owner and complained about the service so am waiting to hear from her as to what the reaction was.

Yes Boss

Did you complain to the owner/manager? Maybe, they are not aware of this situation developing and if the fodd is as good as you say it would be a pity that one person kills the whole experience.

deisedevil

Has happened to me a few times alright where the location, atmosphere, food and everything else were very good but the waiter/waitress were rude and unwelcoming and wrecked the whole experience. If that's a regular occurrence, and it sounds like it is, then the management better nip that in the bud right fast.

THEIRISHMOB

I have to disagree with you coming on here ranting about a bad experience in the restaurant but yet you didn’t feel strongly enough at the time to call the Manager or owner (as he is usually in the kitchen) and complain?

You should have called the Manager or owner and told them how you felt at the time and I’m sure something would have been done to accommodate you. I was a regular in there for 2-3years (going at least once a week) as the early bird menu (€20 for starter/main/desert/ and glass of wine) is without doubt the best value restaurant night out in Ireland. But over the last year I have started going to Cafe Goa as I also love Indian food and I find the food and service there also very good and when you become a regular they REALLY take care of you(2 big glasses of wine free each night).

On Wednesday I went back to L’atmosphere for the early bird as I fancied a change. My wife is also vegan so when we go in we ask for the owner and he always comes out to see as and discuss what he is going to make up for her. Anyway I ordered the egg mimosa for starter which was excellent as it was light yet full of flavour, also on the plate was some slivers of very expensive Parma ham and proper mixed salad leafs (not iceberg lettuce) . The main I ordered the Beef in a pot (can’t remember the name), very similar to an Irish stew. This arrived and I expected a small portion as its only costing about €7 when u factor it into the early bird...the lid was lifted and it was a great big portion and full with flavour again. For desert I had meringue with homemade ice cream which was top notch. I also ordered a bottle of red wine and 2 desert wines. But genuinely it was the best meal I have had this year...And I’ve been to Paris, Italy and Thailand this year.

I felt that as I enjoyed the meal so much I would tell the kitchen staff as its comments like this that keep them banging out food to a high standard and a little praise goes a long way. By the was I have owned my own restaurant and also worked in 5 star hotels in management positions, and I also eat out a lot so I have a fair idea of what good food tastes like lol.

For some reason us Irish never complain when we should and bitch loads afterwards. The next time you have a problem in a restaurant call the manager or owner and tell them so they can do something about it...otherwise they just don’t know...!!!

dayshah

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

For some reason us Irish never complain when we should and bitch loads afterwards. The next time you have a problem in a restaurant call the manager or owner and tell them so they can do something about it...otherwise they just don’t know...!!!

Maybe instead of your ranting and bitching you should have actually read the OP. The person who made the booking did ring the manager afterwards.

The OP did the right thing. They were correct to walk out. Why should any customer be obliged to ring the manager and say 'excuse me, but could you please tell the waitress to take our order, we are ready now'.

Its the managers job to manage, not the customers. If the manager doesn't know whats going on in their restaurant they shouldn't be manager.

pocketvenus

Excuse me THEIRISHMOB but as I stated in my post my friend who had booked it did not leave it go and called the manager the next day to complain and explain the situation. As I have been away on business for past few days I have not had a chance to talk to her to see the outcome.

You are entitled to your opinion but seriously if you had a rude waitress who ignored you for 30mins would you want to have to endure that for the rest of the meal if we were accomdated - no thank you. If I am nice and potlite and treat the staff with respect I expect the same in return.

I have no problem bringing attention to things that are wrong or complaing where necessary but I am entitled to ask if anyone else experienced the same thing even after I talked to the owner etc. This is a discussion form and by the way I know what good food tastes like too you do not need to be in the restaurant trade for that either.

As I previouly stated I like L'atmosphere the food is excellent and is great value for mobey etc but I just wanted to know if anyone esle had the same experience as I have heard a few people have had bad service there and it be a shame for one or two people to do dange to the business.

ziedth

That is an awful story,

I have never eaten in there myself but in any nice place to eat thread someone will without a doubt reccomend there fairly quickly.

My advice? Email them and link to this thread. Be nice to give the owner/manager a chance to have their say.

You never know what can be wrong with someone(although you do say it's not the first time) and speaking as someone who works in the service sector who had kissed an unmentionable amount of of customer ass from my Superquinn days personal life can unfortunately spill over (and I'm aware it shouldn't).

I'd be interested to know what the owner says/does if you'd kindly let us know.

THEIRISHMOB

dayshah wrote: »

Maybe instead of your ranting and bitching you should have actually read the OP. The person who made the booking did ring the manager afterwards.

AND THE MANAGER SAID WHAT?
And I think it’s wrong to walk out of a restaurant without first trying to speak to someone and sort out the problem. Regarding restaurant staff in this country...we pay peanuts so we get monkeys...would you work for €8.90 a hour?
Also almost every restaurant in Ireland has the same problem...you cannot get good staff because they have never been trained to a high enough standard and also the owners/managers don’t know there is a problem as we never complain enough. I would be shocked that if this restaurant got 2 or 3 calls today about this same problem then it would be sorted this evening.
I think every restaurant should supply comment cards for customers that are unhappy but feel to uncomfortable to complain so that we can still do so by writing a note of our experience’s. Finally without passing the buck... as you said if the managers were doing there job correctly there would never be these problems with the staff as a manager should have seen that the group of ladies were waiting without for so long without being served.

ziedth

^ Plenty of retail staff are lovely working for only €8.65 an hour though so I don't know about that argument.

Same can be said for the staff in say brunch in town who are all lovely but surely aren't paid much more then €8.90

I was in the states there recently and everyone (granted it's a tipping culture so it's in their interest) is top class in terms of customer service.

pocketvenus

ziedth wrote: »

That is an awful story,

I have never eaten in there myself but in any nice place to eat thread someone will without a doubt reccomend there fairly quickly.

My advice? Email them and link to this thread. Be nice to give the owner/manager a chance to have their say.

You never know what can be wrong with someone(although you do say it's not the first time) and speaking as someone who works in the service sector who had kissed an unmentionable amount of of customer ass from my Superquinn days personal life can unfortunately spill over (and I'm aware it shouldn't).

I'd be interested to know what the owner says/does if you'd kindly let us know.

As soon as I talk to my friend and find out what the outcome was I will post here. It will probably be later tonight or tomorrow before I get to post.

pocketvenus

ziedth wrote: »

^ Plenty of retail staff are lovely working for only €8.65 an hour though so I don't know about that argument.

Same can be said for the staff in say brunch in town who are all lovely but surely aren't paid much more then €8.90

I was in the states there recently and everyone (granted it's a tipping culture so it's in their interest) is top class in terms of customer service.

I totally agree with you there. When I was in college I worked in the retail industry for min wage but I was trained for the job and was always polite to customers.

Exactly I was in US last year and the staff every where were so nice from shops, restaurants, hotels etc. As you said granted the are alot of their income the culture over there places huge importance on customer service and that ideas needs to be in place here even more so in today's climate. I am not saying staff should have to put up with rude abusive treatment from customers but generally I find customer service varies greatly from place to place.

Penny Lane

[QUOTE=THEIRISHMOB;67697784 Regarding restaurant staff in this country...we pay peanuts so we get monkeys...would you work for €8.90 a hour? [/QUOTE]

Well what do you suggest someone is paid to wait tables? I think 8.90/hour is pretty good for an unskilled job. I worked in food myself for 5 years (at £3.20 an hour) and I always made sure I was pleasant, attentive and quick, that's what I was paid to do. If you are working for someone you give the job your full attention, end of.

WhodahWoodah

It kind of sounds to me like the waitress was having a dig at the OPs group in particular as I get the impression from the OP that everyone else seemed to be getting served and people who had come in after them had been served. Either the waitress is really badly organised or took a dislike to the OPs group and left them waiting on purpose. Third possibility is that she was overworked as she was waiting tables and doing reception at the same time from my reading of it. If that's the case then it's back to being the managers fault.