Renault Megane Hatch/Coupe?

aidanodr

RoverJames wrote: »

Is the tax on the TSi not quite high though ?

OK - its not as low as the €104 - its for a 1.4 which is €302 .. I think it falls into the C range post july 2008 ..

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/co2_emissions_rates_2009_en.pdf

You can get the TSI in 120bhp, 140bhp and 170bhp. Insurance goes up accordingly, but not too much. It is apparently possible to chip the 140 up to 210 if one was so inclined!

Aidan

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

Considering the new Megane can be got for €15000 resale values in 3 years will be quite low, the Renault fan boys will dispute that so too the chaps who sell them but be in no doubt that you are correct with your concern. Trading one in for another brand to a non Renault dealer will be a struggle too unless you are happy with peanuts. Folks may be asking in excess of €15000 for 09s on Carzone but they couldn't be selling for that, there can't be anyone that thick out there so pay that for a used one. The vast majority of the discount is not scrappage.

No doubt I shall recieve a raping for the above post :rolleyes:

Yes but its all relative.

If you spend 50 Grand on an E Class Merc Diesel and it lost 60% of its value over 4 years then you've just lost 30 Grand.

If you spend 28 Grand on a Hyundai Sonata Diesel and it lost 100% of its value then you just lost 28 grand.

6 of 1 , half dozen of the other

ZoneAlarm

Bought new 2008 laguna 3 privilege straight out of the wrapper €33,000 they where new, went to trade it in against the new coupe was offered between €15,000 and €18,000 for the trade but they did not want it as they had to many :rolleyes: what does that say, so went to audi they offered €11,000 for trade in, then went to ford, and wanted to get top spec new mondeo which is due a face lift in June/July, i wanted the keyless entry which had to be special order which would take 10 weeks approx, but if i took what they had now they would give me €18,000 now, but in 10 weeks the car would only be worth €15,000,:eek: i suppose they had an influx of low spec cars they could not shift and wanted me to take a car that i did not want, so i lose €3,000 in 10 weeks how does that work, supposed to be a buyers market. :mad:

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Yes but its all relative.

If you spend 50 Grand on an E Class Merc Diesel and it lost 60% of its value over 4 years then you've just lost 30 Grand.

If you spend 28 Grand on a Hyundai Sonata Diesel and it lost 100% of its value then you just lost 28 grand.

6 of 1 , half dozen of the other

True but the chaps query was do Renault have p1ss poor resale value particularly when trading in with some other dealer. I don't think he is overly concerned about normal depreciation but perhaps the concern is that he may be somewhat tied to the brand. A lad I know recently spent €7000 going from an 08 Corolla to a new one, he also looked at a Focus and a Golf (dunno why as he was fairly adamant 'twas a new Corolla he wanted). Both the Ford and VW garages were valuing his 08 Corolla similarly to the Toyota garage. Would the same apply to a Renault ?

aidanodr

Hey Zonealarm,

Thats what i was afraid off, thats some depreciation in two years though?

RoverJames - you got it in one.

"... valuing his 08 Corolla similarly to the Toyota garage. Would the same apply to a Renault ?"

This is the question and seems to be sort of answered by ZoneAlarm. I wonder are their others with similar experiences over the recent years where a Renault trade-in is concerned TO OTHER non Renault dealers?

Aidan

BrianD3

Renault have generally been giving bigger discounts than most other marques, this has been the case for many years and even more so now. This also allows part exchange values to be inflated when trading in any car against a new Renault.

The cheaper a car is new, the cheaper it is 2nd hand, should be obvious. if you pay 20k for a Civic and 15k for a Megane, do you really expect the Megane to be worth the same as the Civic in a couple of years.

Having said that the values of the two cars will get closer over time. The longer you hold onto a car, the more price differences between it and other cars level out. In ten years time neither the Megane or Civic will be worth much but you paid 5 grand more for one than the other.

Basically, the more you spend the more you lose. People get very excited about percentage depreciation while often forgetting about actual depreciation. As Saab Ed explained earlier, a large percentage of a small number is a small number.

Then you have the brigade who's solution to every car buying dilemma is to recommend a 2nd hand large luxury car. Buy a 20 grand S class and feel smug that it cost the previous owner 100k. Yet its still depreciating. Of course you could always buy a 2 grand S class instead but it that comes with its own disadvantages.

PS a relative had a bog standard Ford Focus (average mileage, perfect condition) which lost around 11.5k in two years when he traded it in in 09. For various reason he had grown tired of the Ford and that was an acceptable loss in his view. In answer to ZoneAlarms question about it being a buyers market - it only is if you have a cheap or no part exchange. If you have a recent part exchange, bring plenty of vaseline when you go to the car dealer.

sk8board

RoverJames wrote: »

Considering the new Megane can be got for €15000 resale values in 3 years will be quite low
-
Folks may be asking in excess of €15000 for 09s on Carzone but they couldn't be selling for that, there can't be anyone that thick out there so pay that for a used one.

I've checked this out at my local renault dealer back in December, and the price was 15k if you wanted the entry level diesel engine with entry level BHP, and hubcaps.
For the 110hp diesel (I think the 1.5d had 3 or 4 variants IIRC) with alloys, it was 19.4k.
I doubt many people got the 15k model

Edit:
p.s. about 3 or 4 weeks ago I passed Bill driving a nice looking bronze coupe on garage plates on the M50 south. The bentley must've been in the garage

aidanodr

sk8board wrote: »

.... about 3 or 4 weeks ago I passed Bill driving a nice looking bronze coupe on garage plates on the M50 south. The bentley must've been in the garage

Hey - its tough times - maybe he had to trade in the bentley for the coupe and got the gov scrappage scheme

Aidan

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

True but the chaps query was do Renault have p1ss poor resale value particularly when trading in with some other dealer. I don't think he is overly concerned about normal depreciation but perhaps the concern is that he may be somewhat tied to the brand. A lad I know recently spent €7000 going from an 08 Corolla to a new one, he also looked at a Focus and a Golf (dunno why as he was fairly adamant 'twas a new Corolla he wanted). Both the Ford and VW garages were valuing his 08 Corolla similarly to the Toyota garage. Would the same apply to a Renault ?

Well if you spend 2 grand less to change your Toyota to a Renault this year but end up spending 2 grand more to change the Renault to a Toyota in another 2 years then whats the difference!

Anyway dont buy into all the Toyota re-sale jargon , Toyota dealers dont want to see 1.4 Corollas coming near them at the moment because they are hammering their value so badly. Added to the fact that a used Auris is generaly hated by both Toyota and non Toyota dealers , it doesnt really support the Toyota argument.

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Well if you spend 2 grand less to change your Toyota to a Renault this year but end up spending 2 grand more to change the Renault to a Toyota in another 2 years then whats the difference!

Anyway dont buy into all the Toyota re-sale jargon , Toyota dealers dont want to see 1.4 Corollas coming near them at the moment because they are hammering their value so badly. Added to the fact that a used Auris is generaly hated by both Toyota and non Toyota dealers , it doesnt really support the Toyota argument.

Changing from a Toyota to a Renault, loads of folks do that, no doubt

My point wasn't jargon, 'twas facts experienced by a friend. I never mentioned an Auris, in your sentance though Auris could be replaced by Renault As illustrated by the chap trying to get rid of the 08 Guna, again not jargon but facts.

In fairness you seem a great salesman, I can imagine the speel you come out with when a potential customer queries how Renaults would be regarded by other garages when trading them in for other brands down the line, credit where credit is due

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

Changing from a Toyota to a Renault, loads of folks do that, no doubt

My point wasn't jargon, 'twas facts experienced by a friend. I never mentioned an Auris, in your sentance though Auris could be replaced by Renault As illustrated by the chap trying to get rid of the 08 Guna, again not jargon but facts.

In fairness you seem a great salesman, I can imagine the speel you come out with when a potential customer queries how Renaults would be regarded by other garages when trading them in for other brands down the line, credit where credit is due

On your first point - As a garage we've taken in 10 Toyotas ( 2 Yaris, 2 Avensis, 6 Corollas) this year against Renaults.

On your second point - I've got a friend who hates Americans. Its just opinion and not fact.

On your third point - You are correct, I am indeed a great salesman

I'll argue with you till the cows come home RJ, if you want to slate something go ahead. I've pointed out here before to you the Renaults that gave trouble. I think its fair to say that I always give an honest summary and an honest answer to any question or critcism in relation to any make of car when I post here.

You on the other hand fail to point out that the Clio retains one of the best re-sale values of any car in any segment for sale at the moment, that the Megane held the No 1 spot for sales in its class across Europe for years, that the Renault range continues to be the safest range of cars available and that right now the Renault range is by far and away the best value you can buy on the market.... All facts......Oh God someone stop me

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

You on the other hand fail to point out that the Clio retains one of the best re-sale values of any car in any segment for sale at the moment, that the Megane held the No 1 spot for sales in its class across Europe for years, that the Renault range continues to be the safest range of cars available and that right now the Renault range is by far and away the best value you can buy on the market.... All facts......Oh God someone stop me

I don't dispute they are safe The question asked was about the tradability of a Megane against other brands, no one asked about re sale values of Clios or how long the Megane held No 1 spot in Europe, that's all non relevent salesman patter.

The value is an opinion, I don't think they are far and away the best value, they are priced now at what they are worth, I reckon they were substantially overpriced until the new prices, as reflected by the fact they were never a huge seller. If they are so good why wouldn't the Renault garage take in the 08 Laguna ? Why did the Audi garage only offer €11000 for it, why would Ford only play ball on an existing model and not on the facelift. I couldn't imagine anyone having the same trouble trading an Avensis or Mondeo.

You say the patter you post is facts yet real life facts experienced by my Corolla trading friend and the chap with the Laguna is jargon

Regarding arguing, I honestly have no mind for it, especially with a Renault salesman If the Megane was the price of the Focus or Corolla very little would be sold. Price a Corolla or Focus at current Megane prices and only a nutter would buy the Megane.

I really must stop now before I get an infraction for Renault bashing even though I've said nothing out of the way.

BrianD3

RoverJames wrote: »

Regarding arguing, I honestly have no mind for it, especially with a Renault salesman If the Megane was the price of the Focus or Corolla very little would be sold. Price a Corolla or Focus at current Megane prices and only a nutter would buy the Megane.

Market dictates what a car sells for, it just so happens that amongst the buying public Renault has a bad reputation (a lot of it due to pub talk bullsh1t or problems with obsolete models) Therefore Renault needs to discount to sell. But now it's gone the other way, witness the numerous threads complaining about long delay getting new Renaults. Sales are booming across Europe and demand appears to be exceeding supply in the Irish market. Renault probably needs to put up its prices now.

Also the Megane is a better, more reliable car and a newer design than the Focus or Corolla. Buying a Megane with the extended warranty and keeping it for a good many years is relatively sensible. The ones buying new Corollas and trading them every two years "before they've depreciated too much" are the real nutters here. No wonder Toyota has high sales in Ireland with this sort of carry on.

And I have already provide an example of our Ford Focus that depreciated by 11.5k or over 50% in two years.

af_thefragile

Forget the hatch and all that crap...
Its the RS Megane 250 you need mate!

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also the Megane is a better, more reliable car and a newer design than the Focus or Corolla

I'll wait about 5 years before I'll comment on the current models reliability.

Leonard Hofstadter

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also the Megane is a better, more reliable car and a newer design than the Focus or Corolla.

ROFL:D!

BrianD3 wrote: »

No wonder Toyota has high sales in Ireland with this sort of carry on.

Or maybe it's because Irish buyers are disinterested in cars and want something that's reliable, is cheap to run and has excellent after sales, things that Toyota delivers in spades?

Look, even with the bargain basement pricing(are Dacia going to sell cars for free when they come here because Renault is already much cheaper than rivals?), Toyota sells 50% more cars than Renault does and all Toyota have done to try and get up sales is knock a just over grand off the Avensis and reduce the price of the Corolla petrol.

VW sells around 20% more than Renault and Ford sells around 50% more cars than Renault does here and all they have done is throw in a few extra goodies like Bluetooth in the Focus and Mondeo(they also put in a less powerful engine as well into the Focus and withdrew the 1.8 125 PS non econetic Mondeo), no price cuts or anything and Ford's market share is still around 15%.

As I keep being reminded by the Renault fanboys VW and Ford are substantially dearer than Renaults are these days and have less spec as well.

The point is that the only reason Renault have sold so many cars this year is because they're giving them away at the moment. To be fair to them it is great for competition and for the Irish car market that someone is trying to shake things up a little in this country, I do think it is a good thing and it does show that people are value conscious which is a good thing as it means we can't be fleeced when it comes to new car prices. I'm happy for Renault that their strategy has worked and no doubt it has helped lift new car sales this year. I hope it makes other car makers sit up and take notice here and maybe in the longer term it might force other makers to reduce the prices of their cars which can only be a good thing because as pointed out already the cheaper a car is the less money it can lose in absolute depreciation.

Nevertheless, isn't it funny how VW,Ford and Toyota have the same market share pretty much this year as last year even though they have only done a small bit of discounting relatively speaking while Renault have to give cars away to make an impact?

Does anyone else find it ironic that the main victim of Renault's much stronger market presence here is at the expense of sister company Nissan, who even more ironically have been giving away cars for the past number of years in order to artifically boost their market share in Ireland?

Jip

You have evidence that says otherwise ?

Leonard Hofstadter

Jip wrote: »

You have evidence that says otherwise ?

Where's the proof that they are more reliable?

PS I would like something better than the "I've had a Reno and it never left me down, and therefore because mine's fine they're all fine":rolleyes: type of response.

Leonard Hofstadter

Saab Ed wrote: »

Well if you spend 2 grand less to change your Toyota to a Renault this year but end up spending 2 grand more to change the Renault to a Toyota in another 2 years then whats the difference!

Anyway dont buy into all the Toyota re-sale jargon , Toyota dealers dont want to see 1.4 Corollas coming near them at the moment because they are hammering their value so badly. Added to the fact that a used Auris is generaly hated by both Toyota and non Toyota dealers , it doesnt really support the Toyota argument.

Well as a salesman you of all people should know that Irish people like being told how much their car is worth as a trade in as opposed to the cost to change, so in the eyes of most people even though the 2 cars may have lost the same amount of money in absolute terms it just sounds better to be told that your car is worth an "extra" 2k, it's if you like worth paying the extra for.

I know this is sad but let's face it thats the reality.

This is one of the reasons why we keep being told car sales were so poor last year, people had bought cars on the old VRT system and thought they would still get the old trade in prices even though the new cars had come down in price substantially.

Now going back to Toyota, I genuinely don't believe that the Auris is unloved even at Toyota garages. Toyota ownership is like a religious cult in this country and Toyota will always have a strong following in Ireland, no matter how unreliable Toyotas become the vast majority of people will associate a low cost reliable car with Toyota, if you dont believe me just look at how strong VWs resale values still are even though they haven't made reliable cars for over a decade now.

I'm sure you'll understand why I'm equally sceptical of the Corolla, I know they are discounting the new petrol Corolla's quite heavily to try and get rid of them but up to the end of last month they still sold 836 of them compared to 377 diesels, as has been said before the Corolla sells because it is what it is... a Corolla, it could be made from binder twine and it will still have a very loyal following.

I'm gladly willing to be corrected, maybe Toyota owners are not quite as deluded loyal as I think:)!

BrianD3

captainspeed wrote: »

Where's the proof that they are more reliable?

PS I would like something better than the "I've had a Reno and it never left me down, and therefore because mine's fine they're all fine":rolleyes: type of response.

ADAC Pannenstatistik (breakdown statistics) Lower numbers are better

2006 cars
Focus 15.8
Corolla 8.4
Megane 8.9

2007 cars
Focus 10.2
Corolla 7.6
Megane 6.2

2008 cars
Focus 6.2
Corolla 8.5
Megane 1.9

Based on this an the fact that the Megane III is is a higher quality car than the Megane II, I'd say that's pretty good evidence. Better than the pub in any case.

BrianD3

captainspeed wrote: »

Nevertheless, isn't it funny how VW,Ford and Toyota have the same market share pretty much this year as last year even though they have only done a small bit of discounting relatively speaking while Renault have to give cars away to make an impact?

My response to this would be - so? Market forces, strength of the various brands etc.
Renault is not going to sell as many cars as Toyota or Ford in Ireland for various reasons including
-smaller dealer network
-pub talk bullsh1t
-fewer engine and trim variations, compare the number of Focus and Golf models to the Megane
-widespread suspicion and even hatred of "The French" eg people making xenophobic comments about how "those cheese eating surrender monkeys should stick to making wine".
-Cork people buying Fords because their Da worked in the assembly plant 30 years ago
etc.

Anyway, the Irish market is small fry. In Europe as a whole here's what's happening. From:
http://www.automotiveworld.com/news/oems-and-markets/81261-volkswagen-and-toyota-under-siege-in-europe

Having overtaken Opel-Vauxhall, Ford and Fiat, Renault has now halved the gap to Volkswagen

Volkswagen remains the regional number one brand, but it did lose market share in February, falling from 11.6% to 11.1%. The brightest rising star is Renault, which, having overtaken the Opel-Vauxhall, Ford and Fiat brands, ended the month with market share of 9.2% compared to 7.4% in February 2009.

Thanks in part to the success of the Golf and Polo in the UK and Italy, VW was still a comfortable 18,965 units ahead of Renault across Europe last month. But Volkswagen should be watching that gap closely: compared to February 2009, the region's new number two brand has more than halved the deficit.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

ADAC Pannenstatistik (breakdown statistics) Lower numbers are better

2006 cars
Focus 15.8
Corolla 8.4
Megane 8.9

2007 cars
Focus 10.2
Corolla 7.6
Megane 6.2

2008 cars
Focus 6.2
Corolla 8.5
Megane 1.9

Based on this an the fact that the Megane III is is a higher quality car than the Megane II, I'd say that's pretty good evidence. Better than the pub in any case.

Well seems as you mention the statistics, this crowd have interesting stats http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/

02 to 06 Megane 86.95
02 to 07 Corolla 14.65 :eek:
04 - focus 62.13


No detail on the new stuff yet but I look forward to looking at it in a year or three

BrianD3

RoverJames wrote: »

Well seems as you mention the statistics, this crowd have interesting stats http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/

02 to 06 Megane 86.95
02 to 07 Corolla 14.65 :eek:
04 - focus 62.13

The ADAC data is more up to date and crucially doesn't lump 5 years of production in together. When the cars were new and now in 2010, a 06 Megane was/is a different proposition for reliability than a 02.

Very true
Still, many folks would appreciate data over a few years rather than a snapshot. I wouldn't expect any car to prove unreliable in its first few years out of the factory but would expect cars to prove reliable for years afterwards, like the 02 to 07 Corolla The stats I posted show Toyota to be far ahead of both the Focus and the Megane over the years quoted.

As I have said, in 5 years time when there are similar stats on the current crop of Renault we can see are they reliable or not, a year or two isn't enough in my opinion. We can also see how they compare to the new Corolla and Focus If they prove reliable then happy out, time will tell.

Saab Ed

captainspeed wrote: »

Now going back to Toyota, I genuinely don't believe that the Auris is unloved even at Toyota garages. Toyota ownership is like a religious cult in this country and Toyota will always have a strong following in Ireland, no matter how unreliable Toyotas become the vast majority of people will associate a low cost reliable car with Toyota, if you dont believe me just look at how strong VWs resale values still are even though they haven't made reliable cars for over a decade now.

I'm sure you'll understand why I'm equally sceptical of the Corolla, I know they are discounting the new petrol Corolla's quite heavily to try and get rid of them but up to the end of last month they still sold 836 of them compared to 377 diesels, as has been said before the Corolla sells because it is what it is... a Corolla, it could be made from binder twine and it will still have a very loyal following.

I'm gladly willing to be corrected, maybe Toyota owners are not quite as deluded loyal as I think:)!

Look im not arguing who sells more cars , im just A) defending the much better cars that Renault makes these days, That the Toyota relability thing is jargon ( its their customer service thats fantastic and not how strong the cars are but I've posted all this before ) and C) the re-sale value is all relative to the new car cost. As a percentage of its original cost , a 5 year old Megane losses no more than an identical spec Golf.

Now my point: A has already been backed up by a previous poster.

To back up point :B ...well its kinda hard to prove what Toyota never admit to i.e VVTi engines going bang , D4D gearboxes blowing up and injectors giving as much trouble ( plus much more ). Thing is the customer goes in for a service and comes out with an engine but the customer is none the wiser for it . I think Toyotas most recent cover up problems are enough proof of this point.

Point :C is a fact. A 5 year old Renault Megane losses no more relative to its new purchase price than a Golf of similar spec and vintage. Stop looking at the retial price of a 5 year version on Carzone today and simply equating that one is worth more than the other, one cost far more than the other new. At a guess the Golf probably losses more percentage wise from its original cost.

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Thing is the customer goes in for a service and comes out with an engine but the customer is none the wiser for it . I think Toyotas most recent cover up problems are enough proof of this point.

:rolleyes:

This is a bit like when you implied Kia were trying to hide something about their 7 year warranty, total horse sh1t

Saab Ed

But Roverjames this is true. Everybody in the Trade knows this .

So Toyota do engine swaps without mentioning it to customers who throw the car in for a service.

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

So Toyota do engine swaps without mentioning it to customers who throw the car in for a service.

Sure do and much more.

In fairness to Toyota the customer never finds out and go off singing their praises. Japanese car culture isnt all about honesty as many people think, its about cover up to the last. Just about every maufacturer from Japan has been found out on this over the years, it very nearly finished off Mitsubishi with their cover up scandal about 10 years back.

Hard to believe considering they had to be hounded to do engine swaps on the 1.8 140bhp Celicas that used to use loads and loads of oil.