Refund/Replacement/Repair

rjp123

Hi.
I bought a watch a couple of years ago, which had a one year guarantee. The timer (second hand on chronograph) stopped working before the year was out (literally a week before) but I only brought it into get repaired a couple of weeks after the guarantee had expired as I was out of the country. After a bit of hassle the manufacturer agreed to repair it and sent it back to me complete with a new guarantee (i.e treated it as if guarantee was valid). This however took about 4 months!

The other night I noticed that although the second hand timer on was working fine, it was not registering mintues elapsed - ie. I dont think it was repaired correctly in the first place. Some times the watch goes through intermittent periods of vibrating too?!

I would now like to ask for a refund as I dont want to go through the 4 months long wait again. The shop told me they would have to send it back to the manufacturer first to see what was wrong. Do I have to accept this? Can the shop not just give me refund there and then as it is blatantly obvious it doesn't work as it should, and I dont need a manufacturer to tell me this.

If it does have to go back to the manufacturer, is the shop obliged to provide me with a replacement for the period it it away?

If it does go back to manufacturer and is repairable can I refuse this and demand refund?

Thanks

jimoc

rjp123 wrote: »

Hi.
I bought a watch a couple of years ago, which had a one year guarantee. The timer (second hand on chronograph) stopped working before the year was out (literally a week before) but I only brought it into get repaired a couple of weeks after the guarantee had expired as I was out of the country. After a bit of hassle the manufacturer agreed to repair it and sent it back to me complete with a new guarantee (i.e treated it as if guarantee was valid). This however took about 4 months!

The other night I noticed that although the second hand timer on was working fine, it was not registering mintues elapsed - ie. I dont think it was repaired correctly in the first place. Some times the watch goes through intermittent periods of vibrating too?!

I would now like to ask for a refund as I dont want to go through the 4 months long wait again. The shop told me they would have to send it back to the manufacturer first to see what was wrong. Do I have to accept this? Can the shop not just give me refund there and then as it is blatantly obvious it doesn't work as it should, and I dont need a manufacturer to tell me this.

If it does have to go back to the manufacturer, is the shop obliged to provide me with a replacement for the period it it away?

If it does go back to manufacturer and is repairable can I refuse this and demand refund?

Thanks

The options allowed are repair, replacement and refund, usually in that order.
If the shop has offered to get it repaired and you refuse that, then technically they have tried to fulfil the requirements and dont have to do anything else after that.
However expecting you to wait 4 months is kinda extracting the urine to be honest.

rjp123

ok thanks. Seeing as they i have already gone down the road of getting it repaired already, with an unsatisfactory outcome in that it is still not functioning as it should, I would assume that I can now ask for a replacement.

I don't think it is fair as they could keep insisting that I keep going for the repair option?

jimoc

Perfectly within your rights to ask for either a refund or replacement after a repair has failed to fix the problem.

IrishTonyO

jimoc wrote: »

Perfectly within your rights to ask for either a refund or replacement after a repair has failed to fix the problem.

Yes but they are also within their rights to repair as well

mickoneill30

rjp123 wrote: »

Hi.
I bought a watch a couple of years ago,
.......
After a bit of hassle the manufacturer agreed to repair it and sent it back to me complete with a new guarantee (i.e treated it as if guarantee was valid). This however took about 4 months!
.......
The other night I noticed that although the second hand timer on was working fine, it was not registering mintues elapsed - ie. I dont think it was repaired correctly in the first place.

I'd say it depends on the time frame between those bits above. It looks like you got it repaired about 6 months ago (or more) and now it's broken again.
If they repaired it and it's worked for a year you may probably assume that the repair fixed the original problem.

Anyway. The retailer can offer you repair / replacement / refund. If they say the original repair fixed the original problem and they will do a new repair and you disagree and neither of you can agree then you can go to the small claims court.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

jimoc wrote: »

The options allowed are repair, replacement and refund, usually in that order.
If the shop has offered to get it repaired and you refuse that, then technically they have tried to fulfil the requirements and dont have to do anything else after that.
However expecting you to wait 4 months is kinda extracting the urine to be honest.

In all cases (assuming the retailer accepts that the fault is not caused by the customer) the retailer is obliged to offer one of the three R's referred to above. The customer has the right to refuse a repair or replacement and instead take the case to a small claims court seeking compensation in the amount of the original purchase (basically the refund)

The court will more than likely side with a retailer who has offered a repair or replacement and order it to be accepted if it's deemed reasonable to have offered this. In the OP's case he has already accepted a repair which has taken four months and has not turned out to be a permanent repair He is quite reasonable in refusing the repair.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the small claims court / consumer law does not operate on the guarantee period. All guarantees are in edition to your normal statutory rights which although not 100% time defined provide that the product should last a reasonable amount of time for the product in question. A watch would be expected to have a normal life expectancy of well over one year and this would be taken into account. It doesn't matter therefore that you had it repaired after the year or that it's now months beyond this again.

I'd personally be prepared to take a case to the small claims court if they are not willing to replace or refund the item at this point and would be very confident of winning.

Head The Wall

rjp123 wrote: »

Hi.
I bought a watch a couple of years ago, which had a one year guarantee. The timer (second hand on chronograph) stopped working before the year was out (literally a week before) but I only brought it into get repaired a couple of weeks after the guarantee had expired as I was out of the country. After a bit of hassle the manufacturer agreed to repair it and sent it back to me complete with a new guarantee (i.e treated it as if guarantee was valid). This however took about 4 months!

Whats the exact timescale on this, they didn't have to repair it the first time. Secondly the guarantee for the repair does not normally last as long as the original guarantee.

When did you get the watch back from repair? And how long after this did you notice it wasn't working properly.

You are claiming that the watch hasn't functioned properly since the repair and you only noticed it recently!!

It sounds to me like you're trying to pull a fast one.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Head The Wall wrote: »

Whats the exact timescale on this, they didn't have to repair it the first time. Secondly the guarantee for the repair does not normally last as long as the original guarantee.

When did you get the watch back from repair? And how long after this did you notice it wasn't working properly.

You are claiming that the watch hasn't functioned properly since the repair and you only noticed it recently!!

It sounds to me like you're trying to pull a fast one.

Assuming that a watch should function for more than one year which I'd say is a reasonable assumption then the retailer would have been advised to offer a repair/refund/replacement. You're correct to say they don't have to offer anything - a retailer even within a guarantee period is technicaly not forced to offer anything either but if a case is taken to a small claims court you can be sure the customer will win.

Repair guarantees and the length of which only become an issue if they are an original service. Other than that any repairs will be considered within the timeframe of the reasonable expected lifespan of a product. I'm not involved in the field at all so I'm not an expert on watches but I'd guess that the small claims court would deem a quality watch that is less than two years old should still be in working order.

Head The Wall

OP states he bought it a couple of years ago. (I know a couple is two but a couple of pints is not usually two pints:D)

The OP seems to be stating that some considerable time has passed since he received the watch back and it wasn't working after the repair. Sounds like an excuse as it has been used since the repair and has gone faulty again.

We don't know how old it is at this stage and whether it si a good quality watch or not. These are relevant points

Op - they may say it's out of warranty and ask for a deposit to even look at it

axer

rjp123, you need to give definitive timelines here as they matter greatly in your case.

rjp123

I tried not to bore ye with details in OP but seeing as you are helping here goes:

I bought the watch in July 2007. The original guarantee was valid for 2 years. On around the last week in June 2009 I noticed that the second timer hand on the chronometer was not working. The bezel(?) was just pushing in an out and not activating this stop watch hand. I didn't have time that week to bring it into shop, but as I was then abroad for the following two weeks I brought it into a dealer there. They explained that I needed my guarantee card and watch would need to be sent to Switzerland to be fixed (Its a Tag Heuer). Obviously i didnt have the card with me so by the time I got back to Dublin the 2 yr guarantee had expired which meant that they would charge me (a ridiculous sum of money in my opinion). I refused this, explained the timescales involved and they agreed to fix it for free. When the watch is fixed they issue a new guarantee card that is valid for 1 year which I now have.

The problem now is that on accepting the repair back from the shop last time, I only checked that the stop watch second hand worked when the bezel was pushed in and out and it did. The other night I had to time something that last over 60s, and when the second hand went round the minute hand didnt rotate in synch with it. i.e watch timer is only good for measuring 0-60s.

I suspect that this was the situation when I collected it from the shop after repair.

I'm v. annoyed at the level of customer service by both the jeweller and Tag (charging me, contesting the guarantee, the delays in getting it back and ultimatley the failure to repair it properly first time around). Its turning out to be more hassle than can be expected from such a 'quality' watch and at this stage I want a refund. I am not as one poster suggested trying to pull a fast one.

rjp123

also re Small claims court is there a specific value that they have a threshold set out in terms of claims?

Head The Wall

With only vague details it sounded bogus. Going on your last post it's hard to know what to expect. I don't think they have to offer you a replacement but go in to them and see what they have to say on the matter re refund/replace etc. You have to see what they will offer before you go the small claims option

It is a good quality watch so these problems in theory shouldn't be expected. Good luck with them

foggy_lad

small claims court goes up to 2000euro value. And i would ignore your manufacturer guarantee card as it is not worth the card it is printed on with regard to your statutory rights. The only people you should deal with are the shop you bought the watch. Bring the watch back and tell them it has come back faulty from the last repair and i would give them two weeks to have it repaired and returned to you or you will be rejecting the repair and demanding a replacement.

rjp123

thanks - will let ye know what happens.