dog wardens rights in Ireland

ojgetsoff

thanks for all the input, I have to say especially to discodog this is the course of action I will take, one of my dogs was meant to be returned today but now the dog warden refuses to answer the phone to me, Ive rang the head of his department I met previously and left message, its just ridicualous the way some headstrong people act, it seems hes pissed off his recommendation to put down the 2 dogs was ignored even though one never even left the property, hes just a pup for Gods sake.
I cant believe in modern Ireland this sort of thing still goes on I really cant

CreedonsDogDayc

i really think you should get on to Joe Duffy. This is the 'public interest' thing he usually goes for, especially when you explain that they won't answer the phone to return your other dog....... they LOVE forcing people to answer the phone.

GO FOR JOE!!!


I really hope you get both dogs back, time is of the essence, and if this whole saga involved a king charles none of this would have happened.

All us dog people know that if your dog had bitten the jogger to harm her, he would have done a lot of substantial damage, all your dog was doing was saying, in doggie language, "LEAVE ME ALONE".

If you get through to Joe Duffy let us know and we can all ring in and give our two cents.

andreac

A solicitor is what you need, NOW!!

EGAR

ojgetsoff wrote: »

thanks for all the input, I have to say especially to discodog this is the course of action I will take, one of my dogs was meant to be returned today but now the dog warden refuses to answer the phone to me, Ive rang the head of his department I met previously and left message, its just ridicualous the way some headstrong people act, it seems hes pissed off his recommendation to put down the 2 dogs was ignored even though one never even left the property, hes just a pup for Gods sake.
I cant believe in modern Ireland this sort of thing still goes on I really cant

Dogwardens in Ireland do no receive special training nor do they have to have qualifications other than winning the tender the council puts out. And therein lies a strong point in your favour. Having dealt with similar situations a couple of times, all involving restricted breeds, it seem that the law is being made up as they go along. DO NOT WAIT for them to make the first move, the more noise you make the more likely to get your dogs back.

I presume that you are in County Mayo?

ojgetsoff

Im in Wexford and I have to say the warden doesnt come across as an animal lover, I know his first priority is to protect the public, but from speaking to several people in the locality who have complained about strays, you would think hes overworked - if hes covering the whole county thats fair enough and despite numerous complaints and calls about stray dogs he never gets to even return these peoples calls. But this is going on 2 weeks now and in that time hes taken 4 days off to my knowledge.
If this was being handled in a professional sensible manner it would make the injustice of it all a bit more bearable but its not and every day it goes I dont get to see my dogs and anyone who gets attached to their pets can relate Im sure, Ive engaged my solicitor as per Dscodogs advice but have to hold fire until I get the other dog back, its just crazy

Discodog

Have you received any absolute confirmation that the other dog will be released to your custody ?. I would go ahead with the injunction for the immediate release of BOTH dogs.

The fact that they have not released the "innocent" dog weakens their case. You need to stress to your solicitor that you expect him to act now. Remember that his job is to "take your instruction" in other words do as you ask.

When other posters refer to the dog's bad behaviour they are being ridiculous. The dog may well of been "encouraged" to guard the home. Many people love the idea of their dog providing "protection" but you cannot blame the dog when it goes wrong.

Do not rely on the Warden/Pound answering the phone. Get your solicitor to call the management of the Council & sit next to him as he does it. He should make it clear that he is calling regarding an immediate legal matter. He should stress that you are instigating an injunction against the Council.

You must log every detail of any conversations as they may become evidence. You must also log any failed attempts & calls that are not returned etc.

Do this tomorrow & get both dogs out before the weekend.

As for "barrack room Lawyers" you may find that some of them are far more knowledgeable regarding animal legislation than "real" solicitors. The obvious reason for this is that very few Irish animal owners will instruct a solicitor to represent their pet.

As for being adversarial & accusing your neighbour, that just turns you into a liar.

To those who accuse you of negligence, it is unproductive & unnecessary. Some may be sanctimonious enough to claim that their dog could never get out. Any dog lover will know that mistakes can happen.

I would never suggest this but you might find the following interesting:

Section 7(5) of the Act of 1911 states as follows:-
“If any animal is impounded or confined in any pound for six successive hours or longer and is without such food or water as is required by Subsection 1 of this section to be supplied, any person may enter the pound for the purpose of supplying the animal therewith.”

Again this is one of the rare instances when an individual can take direct action in response to an act of cruelty. The subsection is very wide in that it allows any person in certain instances the right to enter any pound.

fend

Hi OP,

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds stressful and traumatic for both you and you dogs. My input is probably useless but none the less ill stick it in anyways...

Had a look for animal legislation in Ireland and the ISPCA website came up. Their document states the following,

"1. Where an SPCA receives a call about an actual/potential problem case, it will undertake an ‘observation’ visit and keep IFA informally advised. If this visit indicates a cause for concern, SPCA will approach the farmer. If co-operation is not forthcoming, SPCA will advise local IFA and a joint approach will be made to the farmer (with designated DVO liaison person being kept informally advised). If no co-operation is forthcoming at this stage, SPCA will formally advise the DVO."
http://www.ispca.ie/Government-Submissions.aspx

Now I know it refers to farming etc, but surely a similar legislation would go for household domestic pets? Some sort of observation phase should be put into place before resorting to PTS method.

Seems a little unfair to me to be totally honest.

In term of the speaking to the dog warden, constant phoning etc will probably only make him, to be blunt, p1ssed off and make your case suffer because of this... And unfortunately, this will have a large part to play in the result of the situation as in a majority of times, "the law" is on the laws side.

Like another poster said, keep a record of EVERYTHING that happens, even down to times you phone, what is said, times you phoned and there was no response.

I really really really hope the outcome is good for you. Rooting for you!

PLEASE keep us updated!!!!!

ojgetsoff

Dog warden again not answering his phone to me this morning!!!! I recieved a registered letter yesterday dated from the tuesday previous that the dog warden would be contacting me in a few days to arrange release of the male dog, so they cleverly did not put an exact date on it even though the dep. head told me in person it would be yesterday and at the time i pleaded with him to collect him that day but he wanted the warden to drop him out to me and he was on holidays till thursady, " so I get him back on Thursday for definite?" "yes definitely" was his answer. anything to get me out of his bloody office more like.
The letter attached a form for me to sign for the second dogs -Jills - destruction which was torn up. I gave the letter to my solicitor but hes in court all day today, unless I call the head of dep again and state myself Im serving an injunction for release of both dogs? Is this a good idea?

andreac

I wouldnt be tearing up any paperwork you get from them, you need to keep everything on record so just hand over everything to your solicitor.

Keep us updated on the situation. Hope you get your dogs back soon.

ojgetsoff

Just got Zabaka back! they arrived mob handed and were very civil about the whole thing but the condition of the dog is a holy disgrace, chronic diarhoea, lost lots of weight and his demenour is completely changed, hes scared of his life of any little thing, We`ve an appointment at vets when they open at 2, now Jill is left on her own God only knows what mentally is going through her mind, enforcing discodogs advice right now!

boomerang

I wish I had something constructive to say that would help you, OP - I'm just glad that you are getting excellent advice here and I wanted to say that all my thoughts and prayers are with you for the return of Jill. It is a completely unfair situation and you have my every sympathy.

Blogger50

boomerang wrote: »

I wish I had something constructive to say that would help you, OP - I'm just glad that you are getting excellent advice here and I wanted to say that all my thoughts and prayers are with you for the return of Jill. It is a completely unfair situation and you have my every sympathy.

+1.

I cant imagine what you're going through. It would destroy me if this were happening to my girl.

I have been coming back here each day specifically to read this thread in the hope that this situation has been resolved in the rightful way, which is both dogs being returned to you.

Please let us know how everything goes. Will be thinking of you and Jill.

ojgetsoff

thanks for that and for everyone elses support on this forum, zabaka has gastroentiritus. cheers wexford county council!

December

I'm so happy you have Zabaka back in your care, poor little mite I hope (s)he feels better soon!

Been following this post for a while and it breaks my heart, so I can only imagine what you must be going through - but keep strong and don't stop fighting for your other dog!

Perhaps with the help of the vet that treated Zabaka and your solicitor and the evidence that Zabaka was being mistreated it might help to get Jill out and home with you.

Keep us posted - and good luck!

convert

Is it just me or does it seem that 'dangerous' owners seldom have their dogs confiscated while the once-off offending dogs are treated exceptionally harshly if they aren't confiscated from their owners?

There are a number of dogs near us run out of their non-enclosed yard and chase/attack our horses. One even bit the horse, who is now terrified passing that gateway. His heart literally pounds as we approach the stretch of road. Worse still, the owner just stood there and did nothing while their dog almost caused an accident. They didn't even call it back. And it isn't just a once-off occurrence. I mentioned it to them one day when the dog got out again, and told them that if their dogs were inclined to chase horses/pedestrians, then they should be locked in the yard (i.e. gate closed so they couldn't get out onto the road and cause an accident). The situation has improved slightly, but the gate still remains open.

Seems quite a difference from your situation and what you've promised to do to keep your dogs 'under control'.

It's great news that you got one dog back, even though he isn't himself. I hope everything works out with your other dog. It must be a nightmare situation to find yourself in.

ojgetsoff

This is Jill by the way, everybody has been so helpful I thought id put a face to the name
Shes a house dog really and sleeps inside - so now shes lost zabaka as they were in same kennel according to warden shes no doubt got gastroentiritus too and lonely, when theres a perfectly good home for and if you think of the amount of dogs that cant be homed.
I havent lost sight of the councils right to protect the public but I think I can guarantee no repeat offence. Id tie her to my leg if I could just get her back!

Discodog

Ok so as well as seeking the injunction you should sue the Council for the cruelty & unnecessary suffering to your dog whilst it was in their "care". Get your vet to write a letter confirming that the dog has caught gastroenteritis from poor care.

You need to get a better solicitor. The "I am in Court routine is unacceptable". Your solicitor needs to understand that he has to act NOW. This will come as a bit of a shock as they are used to drawing out proceedings not speeding them up !.

Make it clear that unless he has obtained an injunction by Tuesday PM that a) he is off the case & b) you will not pay him for work carried out (or not carried out) to date. This is not a criticism of you but you need to really put the proverbial boot is some bottoms.

The fact they included a destruction order is worrying in that it suggests that you have not made it clear that you have instructed a solicitor & will be seeking the immediate release of the dog.

You have a good chance of saving this dog but only if you start really moving. There is some evidence that Councils tend to back down once they know that they are in a fight.

You should of gone for an immediate injunction yesterday & the dog may well of been back with you today. Now call your solicitor (get an out of hours mobile if necessary or find his address & knock on his door). Ask him if he will seek an IMMEDIATE injunction for the release of the dog or if not can he recommend a good solicitor who can.

seamus

I would definitely go with Discodog's advice now - get an injunction for possession of Jill on the basis that one dog came back unwell and neglected so you fear for the health of your other dog.

CreedonsDogDayc

Jill is absolutely gorgeous. Im sick at the thought of her stuck in a kennel alone feeling unwell.

You really have to take Discodogs advice, time is of the essence and you need to act now.

I wouldnt go down the route that you will rehome the dog unless its a last resort, your main argument should be that your dog gave a warning snap when it got a fright, that does NOT make it dangerous, it makes it a dog!

Discodog

One other thing. Do not seek publicity. Most of the public will believe that you have a dangerous dog that attacked a passer by. Liveline would be full of callers all claiming to have been savaged by GSD's

ojgetsoff

Yes i would only go public if God forbid I didnt get Jill back and I was running out of time to save her. Il be banging down my solicitors door Monday morning, Ive been trying to get zabaka back to himself since I got him back, one way or another the council are getting served by Tuesday. this forum really has restored my faith and hopefully justice will be done

CreedonsDogDayc

OP Dog Training Ireland just posted the link to this solicitor firm and said that they are very good for dog related cases, http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/.

Perhaps a phone call to them for their advice might help.

Discodog

I have already PM'd that to the OP.

Magenta

It's things like this that put me off getting a GSD. If the OP's dog was a fluffly little Pomeranian he probably wouldn't have half of this trouble.

ojgetsoff

Solicitor is contacting council now for immediate release of Jill for assessment and regarding the fact the poor condition zabaka was returned to me in especially as he shouldnt have been removed at all. saying prayers now but knowing the council it would be a start if they were even in.

Allgäuerin

Any news? All fingers & paws crossed for u & your GSD!!!!!!!

ojgetsoff

still nothing from council, bringing zabaka back to vet now so it will be morning when I have any news as council not taking my calls or the head is unavailable, usual bloody story

Discodog

The Council would hopefully ignore an application for an injunction & then you would be granted it by default. I would also push for your vet to be allowed to examine the dog, in the Pound, as you will be suing them for vet bills.

The Council may well delay as they might be unsure of how to handle this. You should hand deliver ( & get proof of receipt) a formal demand for the immediate release of the dog written by your solicitor. Make it clear that you reserve the right to take legal action within 24 hours if they do not release the dog. Then go straight to the Court & apply for an urgent injunction.

Magenta: Rather than being put off we should all make a concerted effort to get this ridiculous breed restriction lifted. No informed person could ever dictate that any breed is more dangerous that any other especially GDS's. Someone should legally challenge the Act & demand evidence as why certain breeds are considered dangerous.

ojgetsoff

Ive just got the council to agree to let a vet examine Jill as zabaka is now on antibiotics for next 5 days to try and improve his condition as it hasnt improved following another visit to the vet.
They are stating they still havent recieved my letter from my solicitor so im going to pick up a second copy and deliver it myself.absolute nightmare!! just when you think it cant be any worse it gets worse, if anything happens to Jill sueing will be the least of their worries

andreac

You should make sure everything that is posted to them is registered post so you have proof that it was signed for.

If you hand it in yourself you will need to get written proof or receipt that they received the letter.