Agent trying to keep some of my money - can they?

Zascar

I just moved out of an apartment a few weeks ago. I moved out first as I was going on holidays, and my flatmate moved out a week after me. He found some stuff of mine that I had accidentally left behind, a duvet, a pillow and a plant. Instead of taking it with him, he left them there. When I got back from holidays I went to collect them - but they had already been removed from the apartment.

I was awaiting a refund of my deposit back but the letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit. She said that 'You left some of your stuff there. We had to get someone to remove it. Because of this the tenant could not move in for 3 days, and because of this the landlord lost money, so we are charging you.”

I think this is ridiculous. It’s not like a left a whole loads of stuff behind - you could carry everything that was left in your arms, and even if they threw it out I would not have cared really, and old duvet, pillows and a plant. They just got the security guard to go in and move it to their office, a 5 minute job.

Do you think I have recourse here, should I fight it and how would I best go about doing this?
Thanks

Xiney

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills



Since leaving stuff behind does not fall into those categories, they are not entitled to retain any part of your deposit for that reason.

Let them know this and tell them that if they do not return the full amount of your deposit you will be contacting threshold and the PRTB.

Agent J

3 days delay because of some stuff?

The Agent is trying to pull a fast one.

Are you PRTB registered? You should have gotten a letter about it yourself.

If not then ask the agent this and remind them that it is illegal to not have regisitered. Tell them you want your 100 euro back or you will report the landlord.

Then report them for non registration anyway. Too many landlords getting away with it.



If they are then submit a complaint.

Fiii

I think it is such a disgrace what landlords/ agencies are trying to pull these days regarding peoples deposits.
Myself and my 2 old housemates are currently waiting for the return of over €1,200 of our deposit for an apartment we moved out of last Oct!
We were told numerous times it had been paid into our bank account. It had not. After 2months of waiting for it to be sorted, he suddenly stopped replying to phonecalls/ emails.
I told the landlord that I was contacting the PRTB and he then replied with malicious threats...in writing!
We left the place spotless, yet he is claiming all sorts (that he needed to get a new carpet etc...we have pics to prove the condition of the apartment when we left). Fun times.

We contacted Threshold and they have been a huge help. You should def contact them and ask their advise. They might even contact the agency on your behalf. If they do, the agency might cop on and simply give the money back (fingers crossed!).
If not, do go down the PRTB route. More of these landlords need to realise the they cannot get away with this!

Best of luck OP.

F

Zascar

Thanks guys

Yes I was registered with the PRTB. Is it possible to call them and talk to someone? I just want to see exactly where I stand before I go back to the landlord.

Actually re the cleaning, we gave it a massive clean before we left, my flatmate is a clean freak and spent hours on it, but they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.

If I email my agent and they still refuse, what should I do then?

Fiii

PRTB don't really have a department for information, but try giving Threshold a call and they will give you an info you need.
http://www.threshold.ie/

Really does sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one.

Agent J

350 for cleaners?

Scam. Scam and once more Scam.

Did you take pictures of the place before you left? Note that for next time because it makes your position water tight.

I had an estate agent try this one on me before. Took me 18 months through the PRTB but i got my money back.

ztoical

Zascar wrote: »

they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.?

they need to provide you with some sort of receipt for the cleaning if they are taking it out of your deposit.

Doop

ztoical wrote: »

they need to provide you with some sort of receipt for the cleaning if they are taking it out of your deposit.

+1 on the receipt, which they have to show you (its your money they spent and you are entitled to see how it was spent)

Zascar

Wrote to them this morning, they are playing hardball. What to do now?

Zascar

They sent me the receipt just now for the cleaning but all it says is €350 for cleaning - and no date or reference to our apartment.

Regardless, they are not backing down. Can anyone tell me what is the procedure? I;ve downloaded the form and I will fill it in and send it off, but what happens then?

Ste.phen

You may not hear anything for months but it'll eventually go to an arbitration hearing where they're asked to justify the deductions from the deposit. It would help your case a lot if you had photographic proof that the place was fine

Dymo

letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit.

receipt just now for the cleaning but all it says is €350 for cleaning

How much are they deducting from the deposit?

Zascar

They are not charging us for the cleaning - she's just saying that it cost €350. I still think this is ridiculous as my flatmate spent hours cleaning it and I have no doubt it was absolutely spotless as he was meticulous about cleanliness.

They are taking €100 out of the deposit because the tenants could not move in for a further 3 days because of my 4 items left in one of the rooms. Pffft. The apartment was vacant a week before they even came to inspect it.

I know out of principle I'd like to get these guys but I don't know if its worth the hassle taking months with the PRTB...

shoegirl

Zascar wrote: »

Actually re the cleaning, we gave it a massive clean before we left, my flatmate is a clean freak and spent hours on it, but they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.

There is one agency in Cork city which puts a clause in every tenants lease saying they deduct a charge of 50 euros for "cleaning."
You want to see the filthy carpets they let their flats out with, nevermind the state of exterior areas. What happens if the charges are written into the leases as signed by the tenant(s)?

(In fairness, a friend of mine bought a house a few years ago and discovered the scumbag tenant of the previous owner had left junk all over the garden and attic - childrens toys etc. Not enough to fill a skip, but half a days gathering and a trip to the dump).

murphym7

I don't want to be the party pooper here but they have every right to keep your €100 for leaving your stuff behind. In fact it could have been more - they could have hired a mini skip to get rid of your stuff.

I am playing devils advocate here a bit but why should a landord have to worry about getting rid of your junk that you left behind. I doubt you're the first who has left their crap behind them.

Oh and by the way the same happned me - I lost a portion of a deposit years ago for the same reason as that - leaving crap behind us that a dumbass buddy didn't get rid of.

The cleaning bill is outrageous though.

Xiney

Play hardball back.

Did you get a signed inventory when you moved out stating that there was no damage?

If so you're golden.

Here is the correspondence (email) I sent to our landlord when they tried to retain 100 euro for some bogus reason:

Hi xxxx,

Just to reiterate the conversation we just had on the telephone, the deposit can only be retained in whole or in part for rent/bills unpaid or for damage (and I have already received confirmation from you that there is none)

There was no agreement that I would leave 100 euro for the gas.

Please forward on the cheque ASAP as it has now been over a month since we moved out of the apartment.

Thank you,

[Xiney]

Doop

Zascar wrote: »

I was awaiting a refund of my deposit back but the letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit. She said that 'You left some of your stuff there. We had to get someone to remove it. Because of this the tenant could not move in for 3 days, and because of this the landlord lost money, so we are charging you.”

I think this is ridiculous. It’s not like a left a whole loads of stuff behind - you could carry everything that was left in your arms, and even if they threw it out I would not have cared really, and old duvet, pillows and a plant. They just got the security guard to go in and move it to their office, a 5 minute job.

Do you think I have recourse here, should I fight it and how would I best go about doing this?
Thanks

Not trying to be picky here, but there is a point that should be raised imo. You left stuff behind (albeit a small amount of stuff). Somone has to move it to the bins... granted not a big job... but whoes going to do it? Its not the agents job to carry stuff out to the bins, the landlord is obv not that involved as he has the agent looking after it. So they have to find someone to do it and pay them. Hence the 100euro to the security gaurd.

I know from managing properties that its really difficult to get someone out to do a small job, and they always work out way more expensive than anyone feels its worth, its catch 22 sort of, any handyman / tradesman will charge 70euro for a call out... then yeah maybe 10mins work ... 30euro, theres 100euro ... seems dumb I agree... but someone has to do it... and get paid for it..

just my 2cents!

Del2005

Doop wrote: »

Not trying to be picky here, but there is a point that should be raised imo. You left stuff behind (albeit a small amount of stuff). Somone has to move it to the bins... granted not a big job... but whoes going to do it? Its not the agents job to carry stuff out to the bins, the landlord is obv not that involved as he has the agent looking after it. So they have to find someone to do it and pay them. Hence the 100euro to the security gaurd.

I know from managing properties that its really difficult to get someone out to do a small job, and they always work out way more expensive than anyone feels its worth, its catch 22 sort of, any handyman / tradesman will charge 70euro for a call out... then yeah maybe 10mins work ... 30euro, theres 100euro ... seems dumb I agree... but someone has to do it... and get paid for it..

just my 2cents!

Xiney wrote: »

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills

Seems pretty clear to me that they can't keep the money as there is non of the above just junk. If they want to keep €100 from the deposit then they should have it in the lease that any "junk" to be removed after will cost €x.

Why can't you inform the landlord that there's still junk in the apartment and let them sort it out instead of hiring someone off your own bat. Or even contact the old tenant and tell them something is left behind. It seems like a nice scam for an agent to pick up and nice little €100.

mr_happy

On Google "landlord deposit dispute" gets 564,000 hits.

Its a second income for some people.

Its disgusting to think that you look after a place and end up with someone trying to do you at the end of it.

I hope you get your money back.

Doop

Del2005 wrote: »

Seems pretty clear to me that they can't keep the money as there is non of the above just junk. If they want to keep €100 from the deposit then they should have it in the lease that any "junk" to be removed after will cost €x.

Why can't you inform the landlord that there's still junk in the apartment and let them sort it out instead of hiring someone off your own bat. Or even contact the old tenant and tell them something is left behind. It seems like a nice scam for an agent to pick up and nice little €100.

It doesnt say anything about cleaning in that list either so is that covered???? have you ever read a lease? Most will state the property has to be returned in the same condition it was made available (ie.. no "junk")

The landlord pays an agent to manage his property... so an agent is hardly going to ring and ask the landlord to clear out the place is he? cue 1 lost client. They will run it past the landlord to inform them but that wll be it.

Nice Scam ???.. completely illigeal, would you risk your job for a 100euro ???

20goto10

Xiney wrote: »

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills



Since leaving stuff behind does not fall into those categories, they are not entitled to retain any part of your deposit for that reason.

Let them know this and tell them that if they do not return the full amount of your deposit you will be contacting threshold and the PRTB.

I think it is to cover any expenses incurred whatever they may be. As such, the landlord was quite within his right to take the expenses out of the deposit. The OP should ask to see a receipt for the removal man. It sounds like a bit much a) getting a man in to remove a duvet and pillow and b) that it would take 3 days. You could use this as a basis for getting your full deposit back but if they do produce a receipt then I don't see you have an argument tbh.

She Devil

We got €200 deducted from our deposit at the of moving out because they wanted to make the place "fit" for the next tenant, I scrubbed that place on my hands and knees before I moved out, it was shining!!
We had been in there for two years, and a further €60 because we left food in the freezer which they had to get rid of. Food was a small container of soup and frozen sausages!!!!!!!!

We didnt pursue it further because we were sick of them at the time, but I wish we had! Its scandelous that they can do this! I think its a disgrace!!

Xiney

20goto10 wrote: »

I think it is to cover any expenses incurred whatever they may be. As such, the landlord was quite within his right to take the expenses out of the deposit. The OP should ask to see a receipt for the removal man. It sounds like a bit much a) getting a man in to remove a duvet and pillow and b) that it would take 3 days. You could use this as a basis for getting your full deposit back but if they do produce a receipt then I don't see you have an argument tbh.

No, the law is very clear.

The deposit can not be used for cleaning, readvertising the property, or other "expenses" other than the three I've mentioned.

Renting out properties is a business. Your customers pay rent, and you have business expenses. You don't get to just watch the money roll in and do no work or make no investment.

20goto10

Xiney wrote: »

No, the law is very clear.

The deposit can not be used for cleaning, readvertising the property, or other "expenses" other than the three I've mentioned.

Renting out properties is a business. Your customers pay rent, and you have business expenses. You don't get to just watch the money roll in and do no work or make no investment.

I'm aware its a business. I think you're over complicating the issue here. The OP (or ops house mate) left sh!t behind which had to be cleaned up. Why should the landlord pay to clean up the tenants sh!t? What law are you talking about btw? If its very clear then post it so we can all have a goo.

Zascar

In fairness it was hardly "Cleaning up" - it was one armfulls full of stuff that someone could pikc up and move or throw away in 3 minutes

testicle

20goto10 wrote: »

I'm aware its a business. I think you're over complicating the issue here. The OP (or ops house mate) left sh!t behind which had to be cleaned up. Why should the landlord pay to clean up the tenants sh!t? What law are you talking about btw? If its very clear then post it so we can all have a goo.

Point 8. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=244

Section under Deposits - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/landlords_rights_and_obligations

If you want it in legal mumbo-jumbo, here's the Act - http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf - Part 2, Section 12, Subsection 4 (a)

Zascar

testicle wrote: »

Point 8. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=244

Section under Deposits - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/landlords_rights_and_obligations

Brilliant thanks testicle.

Do you think its worth filling in the form for the PRTB? The form is huge and I've heard stories of having to wait months before anything happens. It's €100 and there is a fee of €25 - however it's the principle - but it has also cause a rift between me and my flatmate which I really could have done without

murphym7

Zascar wrote: »

In fairness it was hardly "Cleaning up" - it was one armfulls full of stuff that someone could pikc up and move or throw away in 3 minutes

Sorry now Zascar, it doesn't matter if it was an armfull of stuff or a skip full of stuff, it should not have been left there. Also you make it sound like its a breeze "pick up and just chuck it away" fair enough - who to pick it up? Where would they chuck it exactly? Use their own private bin's that they pay for? Thats hardly fair. Lump it into the car and bring to the dump? Not fair either, their private car + petrol + dump charges + effort. As I said you were lucky its just 100.
To be honest they were in their rights to hire a mini skip - they don't need to worry about the cheapest way to get rid of your crap - they just need to worry about getting rid of it. As I said before you admit you left crap behind = no leg to stand on. Stop upsetting yourself.

Xiney

have you read the rest of the thread?

cleaning is not something the landlord can take money out of the deposit for.

gimme5minutes

Xiney wrote: »

have you read the rest of the thread?

cleaning is not something the landlord can take money out of the deposit for.

So if you left 15 big black bin bags full of rubbish in the kitchen when you vacated a rented apartment the landlord can not deduct from the deposit for the disposal of this rubbish?