Agent trying to keep some of my money - can they?

Merch

I'd have to look over the details of the act and all the information, but Im inclined to think that if it is left not as it was found (excluding reasonable wear and tear) then why should the landlord/agent have to pay to return it to that original condition (excluding reasonable wear and tear)

Some people have a different definition of what clean is. If a duvet and whatever was all that was left behind it seems a bit unreasonable, but that is their business, I'd hardly expect them to go around cleaning up after every tenant,

on the other hand sometimes tenants get apartments/house that are in a shocking state and then are unfairly and unreasonably deducted to return them to a condition to which they never received them in.

there are good tenants and good landlords, there are more bad tenants and bad landlords then that first category

Xiney

gimme5minutes wrote: »

So if you left 15 big black bin bags full of rubbish in the kitchen when you vacated a rented apartment the landlord can not deduct from the deposit for the disposal of this rubbish?

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

Merch

Xiney wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

If that went to some kind of arbitration I seriously doubt that it would be seen like that.
If either the tenant or landlord/agent was seen to be unreasonable it wouldn't be looked upon favourably.
While tenants have rights, there have obligations also, in fact I think the tenants have more obligations if I recall the act correctly, this doesn't mean landlords or their agents can get away with anything, but if they have reasonable justification they can make deductions, deductions have to be itemised.
The reality is someone had to move this persons duvet (although the cost sounds a bit excessive) personally if I was the next tenant I wouldn't really want to even have to touch it.

Merch

I'm not taking either side, but a tenant shouldn't give a landlord/agent an excuse to have to make deductions, I agree that many will try deduct unreasonably from a deposit, but if the agent has to spend time organising getting someone to remove a prior tenants belongings then that takes time, time which if they are operating a business they will say they have to charge for. Like a previous poster said the cost for doing even the smallest jobs are out of proportion to what it would cost the tenant to do this themself.
On another note if I was the new tenant, I really dont want the previous tenant leaving their stuff behind or coming knocking looking for things they should have taken. (if they had items/mail I'd expect them to get that off the agent, whom I assume will charge for his/her time) I was in a place before where the previous tenant kept returning for their mail, I asked them why they didn't either get it diverted or contact the businesses that were posting their bills, they just said they never got around to it, the next time they called I told them not only not to call, but not to bother me, their post would be in the bin, need less to say they got their post diverted as I received only a few of their bills, which they never called for.

Tenants obligations
(ii) compliance with section 16(f) and the amount of the
costs that would be incurred by the landlord, were
he or she to take them, in taking such steps as are
reasonable for the purposes of restoring the dwelling
to the condition mentioned in section 16(f) is equal
to or greater than the amount of the deposit,

No u cant leave ten bags of your stuff behind, you cant leave one.

(f) not do any act that would cause a deterioration in the condition
the dwelling was in at the commencement of the
tenancy, but there shall be disregarded, in determining
whether this obligation has been complied with at a particular
time, any deterioration in that condition owing to
normal wear and tear, that is to say wear and tear that is
normal having regard to—

If I was new tenant and the previous tenant left ten bags, then I wouldn't consider it habitable (ie I dont know what is in those bags and it could be considered a potential health risk), by the same token a tenant is giving grounds for a landlord/agent to make deductions even if they leave one bag. All the agent has to say would be, we're not questioning the hygiene of the tenant but it is not unreasonable for us to take precautions in removing an item of bedding that the previous tenant left behind, as a new tenant I dont know who the previous guy/girl is and I dont want to go near their duvet, jocks, socks or whatever, so why would the agent?

(g) if paragraph (f) is not complied with, take such steps as the
landlord may reasonably require to be taken for the purpose
of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned
in paragraph (f) or to defray any costs incurred by the
landlord in his or her taking such steps as are reasonable
for that purpose,

So if you arrived and the previous tenant left 1 or 10 bags you can do the same, but if you arrived and there wasnt 1 or 10 bags then no you cant leave your stuff behind

Xiney

I`m pretty sure the landlord would need time stamped photos to prove that the condition of the apartment was better when the tenant moved in, except in extreme cases. (We`ve all been to one of THOSE apartments, where you wonder how the inhabitants have not succumbed to some disease long eradicated by modern sanitation)

I sincerely doubt that any judge would award a landlord money for the removal of a duvet and four pillows. That is easily done (in 2 minutes) by either the landlord or the agent in the course of a final inspection.

For 100 euro I`d be fighting it.

Merch

Maybe not or maybe the time spent chasing the tenant and the time involved are what it cost to pay someone to do this?

The OP said they went on holidays and expected their house mate to pick up after them? and they seem to expect the agent to do the same, like another poster said, these things cost are out of proportion to what it actually costs the tenant to do themselves (ie nothing)

I'm am not say it is or is not just, but from my reading of the act the property should be left as it was found, I wouldnt really want to touch someone elses duvet,clothes etc If you're doing that on a regular basis how much is that in wasted time, time is money therefore the person that caused it pays for it.

I agree there are lots of landlords/agents skimming a bit but there also tenants that dont seem to understand their own obligations either

shoegirl

Xiney wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

I think if there is a clause in the lease automatically charging for "cleaning" or applying a deduction in the event of damage or leaving rubbish behind, it may be possible to do it, but it would be open to dispute.

Curious actually as my landlady has a clause that automatically steals 50 euros of tenants deposits for "cleaning" which given the filth of the carpet when I moved in was a bit rich. Not sure if they always do that though. In fairness most of the other tenants in the house left a right muck.

Jo King

If a tenant leaves things behind, they haven't vacated the accommodation. There was a court case on this point years ago regarding the requirement of a vendor to give up vacant possession. The tenant can be charged rent until the rubbish is removed.

happymondays

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

20goto10

testicle wrote: »

If you want it in legal mumbo-jumbo, here's the Act - http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf - Part 2, Section 12, Subsection 4 (a)

this refers to section 16 (f) which states the apartment must be returned in the same condition taking into account normal wear and tear. imo, leaving sh!t behind breaches this condition. There are also other laws which protect the Landlord. Dumping is actually a criminal offence. Also, as someone pointed out this is a business and as a business the landlord is perfectly entitled to bill for expenses incurred. Now maybe it shouldn't come out of the deposit, but lets be realistic here. It's not like he can send the tenant an invoice. As with any laws, a bit of common sense should be applied.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

They can bring you to court and you will undoubtedly lose.

Besides all this, the problem could have easily been avoided if the landlords agent hand handled the move out properly. He should have been there at the apartment as the tenant is moving out, giving it one last look over. If something is out of place the issue can be addressed face to face. Once everyone is happy, tenant hands over keys and landlord/agent hands back the deposit.

Maybe the landlord should be billing the agent, not the tenant?

happymondays

20goto10 wrote: »

They can bring you to court and you will undoubtedly lose.

in the unlikely even they would bring you to court what would they
do you for? failure to pay a months rent? fine if they gets the months
rent they will have pay back the deposit so what are they going to gain?
are they really going to go to the bother??
(unless they're was bills,cleaning,damage to pay for)

has anyone here actually been brought to court for this?



"Besides all this, the problem could have easily been avoided if the landlords agent hand handled the move out properly. He should have been there at the apartment as the tenant is moving out, giving it one last look over. If something is out of place the issue can be addressed face to face. Once everyone is happy, tenant hands over keys and landlord/agent hands back the deposit"


I agree with this, its so much easier if the landlord can be met on the final day, everything agreed on and sorted.
Problem is estate agents dont normally do this, they expect the keys back and they will inspect at thier leisure and then keep half your deposit for whatever they want. At that stage you've no option but to have wait months for the PRTB to sort it.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

in the unlikely even they would bring you to court what would they
do you for? failure to pay a months rent? fine if they gets the months
rent they will have pay back the deposit so what are they going to gain?
are they really going to go to the bother??
(unless they're was bills,cleaning,damage to pay for)

Why is it an unlikely event? Tenat refuses to pay his last months rent and expects to live in someone elses house with a smug grin on his face thinking he's smart? It's a clean cut case, he will lose.

Not to mention you will not get a reference for your next tenancy. If you're young you can get away with saying its your first tenancy but someone in their 30's/40's with no reference from previous tenancy? That's going to make life difficult for yourself.

how about instead of sticking it to the man, tenants take care of their rented accomodation, respect other peoples property, keep it clean and don't live sh!t behind. Whould that not be a whole lot easier?

happymondays

20goto10 wrote: »

Why is it an unlikely event? Tenat refuses to pay his last months rent and expects to live in someone elses house with a smug grin on his face thinking he's smart? It's a clean cut case, he will lose.

Not to mention you will not get a reference for your next tenancy. If you're young you can get away with saying its your first tenancy but someone in their 30's/40's with no reference from previous tenancy? That's going to make life difficult for yourself.

how about instead of sticking it to the man, tenants take care of their rented accomodation, respect other peoples property, keep it clean and don't live sh!t behind. Whould that not be a whole lot easier?

i though it fairly obvious from my previous post but ill spell it out again!.
its an unlikely event becuase the agent/landlord has noting much to gain from it. as i already said the deposit will cover the last months rent so the rent is being paid. no one is out of pocket. (persuming there's no damage done/bills left to be paid etc).

A reference is worthless, anyone could get 5 different people to make up a reference tomorrow if one was needed.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

i though it fairly obvious from my previous post but ill spell it out again!.
its an unlikely event becuase the agent/landlord has noting much to gain from it. as i already said the deposit will cover the last months rent so the rent is being paid. no one is out of pocket. (persuming there's no damage done/bills left to be paid etc).

A reference is worthless, anyone could get 5 different people to make up a reference tomorrow if one was needed.

The problem is it immediately sets alarm bells for the Landlord. Why is the tenant so worried about losing the deposit? In fact, its pretty much an admission of guilt. I've done something and I know you're going to keep my deposit because of it so fcuk you, stick it to the man, I'm going to refuse to pay my last months rent haha what you going to do about it now! It's really not an nice way to go about things and if you think you're being clever about things then you can think again because its actually a very stupid thing to do.

Merch

happymondays wrote: »

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

This all about rights, tenants and landlords and obligations of both
It is illegal to "keep" the last months rent, if that went to court, I think something like that could be brought in the small claims court for €6 then the tenant would not have a leg to stand on

Equally if a tenant has had what they consider unreasonable deductions made from their deposit they should follow it up with the PRTB, and make this known to the agent/landlord (perhaps then they will consider it not worthwhile to make a deduction even if it is justified)

One side or the other cannot bang on about rights if you then say, I will do something illegal to right a wrong, there is a process for it, which generally tenants come out on toip, so there is no point compounding a bad situation by commiting what is an offence. You wont have a leg to stand on and it makes good tenants look bad.

gimme5minutes

20goto10 wrote: »

The problem is it immediately sets alarm bells for the Landlord. Why is the tenant so worried about losing the deposit? In fact, its pretty much an admission of guilt. I've done something and I know you're going to keep my deposit because of it so fcuk you, stick it to the man, I'm going to refuse to pay my last months rent haha what you going to do about it now! It's really not an nice way to go about things and if you think you're being clever about things then you can think again because its actually a very stupid thing to do.

How is using your deposit to cover your final month's rent stupid? It seems like a very practical plan to me and it's what I plan to do when I leave my current accomodation. The amount of people getting stung for deposits these days is unreal, I have two cousins who have been ripped off by landlords in the last year alone. Loads of people on here have also been stung - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=10864188

Many landlords seem to be under the impression that they own your deposit as it has been sitting in their accounts so long and are very reluctant to give it back to you.

Merch

Its illegal to withold rent, if you withold it you are breaking the law

If you are witholding it on the assumption you will not get your deposit back, then you are presuming someone will do some wrong to you before it has happened.

If a landlord witholds any amount of a deposit you are entitled to an itemised breakdown of the deductions, if you are unhappy with that you can take it to the prtb, if they are not reg'd then they wont get a look in and will certainly lose, if they are then they will need to have good proof that the deductions are valid, anyone that does not follow that route and only complains they have been stung is not utilising the system and the law fully.

If they are not reg'd or paying tax then you have them over a barrel, the tenant has the advantage

complaining about being stung but not following it up and then saying I will do something, probably viewed as being worse in the eyes of the law (witholding rent/money due) in advance of a landlord doing anything will not leave you with a leg to stand on and maybe a judgement to boot

happymondays

Merch wrote: »

Its illegal to withold rent, if you withold it you are breaking the law

If you are witholding it on the assumption you will not get your deposit back, then you are presuming someone will do some wrong to you before it has happened.

If a landlord witholds any amount of a deposit you are entitled to an itemised breakdown of the deductions, if you are unhappy with that you can take it to the prtb, if they are not reg'd then they wont get a look in and will certainly lose, if they are then they will need to have good proof that the deductions are valid, anyone that does not follow that route and only complains they have been stung is not utilising the system and the law fully.

If they are not reg'd or paying tax then you have them over a barrel, the tenant has the advantage

complaining about being stung but not following it up and then saying I will do something, probably viewed as being worse in the eyes of the law (witholding rent/money due) in advance of a landlord doing anything will not leave you with a leg to stand on and maybe a judgement to boot

thats all fine but how long will it take to get sorted by the PRTB?
is it reasonable for a tenant to have to wait months and months for a deposit back? bearing in mind a deposit will have to be paid in the next accomodation
also so the tenant could is out of pocket of a 1000 - 2000 euro for gods know how long?

noone has still answered yet, if it goes a court and the tenant loses would the judgement just be that the tenant has to pay the last months rent? if it is then it would be worth it.

astrofool

I don't get why people don't hand over the keys face to face when leaving an apartment, it makes all the post cleaning/crap left behind stuff moot.

They likely got the place professionally cleaned before the next tenants moved in, on top of the cleaning already done. This can not be taken from deposit if the tenant has already left the place livable. The OP also said that this was not taken from the deposit, it sounds more like they are using it as a threat for pursuing the €100.

Merch

happymondays wrote: »

thats all fine but how long will it take to get sorted by the PRTB?
is it reasonable for a tenant to have to wait months and months for a deposit back? bearing in mind a deposit will have to be paid in the next accomodation
also so the tenant could is out of pocket of a 1000 - 2000 euro for gods know how long?

noone has still answered yet, if it goes a court and the tenant loses would the judgement just be that the tenant has to pay the last months rent? if it is then it would be worth it.

No it is not fair if a tenant has to wait, but you are suggesting a landlord has no right to withhold some or all of a deposit, when in fact they may have some right, but lets go on the basis that the tenant hasn't done anything to have their deposit witheld.

What you are also saying is that it is ok for a tenant to withold rent from a landlord in a legal agreement but that it is not ok for a landlord to withold the deposit. Assuming that a tenant or landlord has done nothing wrong, then either party witholding rent/deposit is wrong IT IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING. You cant come on here and say how wrong it is for a landlord to withold a deposit but then claim some right to do the same thing, you make good tenants look bad and all landlords like evil scrooges.#

I guess the process for a tenant to recover their deposit/part of the deposit retained is as long as it would take for a landlord to recover withheld rent, except a landlord wont end up with a judgement against them for this, while a tenant could. I know there are a lot of dodgy landlords out there, but tenants really have them over a barrel if you know they are not legit, ie what was the response (during the tenancy)when you asked the landlord/agent when you expect to get your prtb letter or you're putting in for your rent relief allowance.
Dont look at it just from a renting point of view, look at it impartially, granted not easy if you have been stung in the past.

Merch

astrofool wrote: »

I don't get why people don't hand over the keys face to face when leaving an apartment, it makes all the post cleaning/crap left behind stuff moot.

They likely got the place professionally cleaned before the next tenants moved in, on top of the cleaning already done. This can not be taken from deposit if the tenant has already left the place livable. The OP also said that this was not taken from the deposit, it sounds more like they are using it as a threat for pursuing the €100.

In my opinion professional cleaners will do no better a job than if you get down and clean a place for a day, its just if you dont have the time you may have to use them. But it can take a while to confirm that bills have been paid/if there will be any financial consequences of getting a new line in (telephone if there is one). If the tenant has left the place reasonable clean (recently done) and nothing major is out of order and have not left a bundle of stuff behind that needs disposing (ie equal to or less than one grey bin) then I see no reason to deduct them anything.
But a hand over should be in person with a duplicate copy (either two sheets signed and stamped or a carbon copy) of meter readings, general condition/functionality of everything and that goes through the original lease inventory

gimme5minutes

Merch wrote: »

Its illegal to withold rent, if you withold it you are breaking the law

It's also illegal to download copyrighted material off the net. And it's illegal to park without paying next to a shop while you run into it for 1 minute. However I'd estimate that close to 100% of the population has done either or both of the above, but less than .01% of them have gotten done for it. There is not 1 person out there who does not BREAK THE LAW :eek: on regular basis.

If you are witholding it on the assumption you will not get your deposit back, then you are presuming someone will do some wrong to you before it has happened.

Well, yes, because in the real world this a very common occurance.

If a landlord witholds any amount of a deposit you are entitled to an itemised breakdown of the deductions, if you are unhappy with that you can take it to the prtb, if they are not reg'd then they wont get a look in and will certainly lose, if they are then they will need to have good proof that the deductions are valid, anyone that does not follow that route and only complains they have been stung is not utilising the system and the law fully.

Some people don't have the luxury of waiting 18 months for a prtb case to be settled where you may or may not get your money back. There are no guarantees the landlord won't be able to successfully lie his way out of paying back all or some of what he owes you. Some people also don't need the stress and hassle of taking such a case to recover money that is rightfully theirs.

complaining about being stung but not following it up and then saying I will do something, probably viewed as being worse in the eyes of the law (witholding rent/money due) in advance of a landlord doing anything will not leave you with a leg to stand on and maybe a judgement to boot

That's just nonsense. This is the real world, no-one is getting taken to court for using their last month's rent as a deposit. If this place is left in it's original condition there is zero point in a landlord bringing a case. Not to mention the law is hugely in the tenants favour in Ireland. Look at that case last year of a woman who didn't pay rent for a very long time and when the landlord finally threw her out she took a case and won about €13K compensation from him.

My apartment is in immaculate condition and I am not willing to take the risk that my landlord will try and scam some or all of myself and my gf's deposit. I have seen it happen way too often. I also have no interest in going through the hassle of taking a prtb case, I really don't like unnecessary stress.

Merch

gimme5minutes wrote: »

It's also illegal to download copyrighted material off the net. And it's illegal to park without paying next to a shop while you run into it for 1 minute. However I'd estimate that close to 100% of the population has done either or both of the above, but less than .01% of them have gotten done for it. There is not 1 person out there who does not BREAK THE LAW :eek: on regular basis.

Well, yes, because in the real world this a very common occurance.

Some people don't have the luxury of waiting 18 months for a prtb case to be settled where you may or may not get your money back. There are no guarantees the landlord won't be able to successfully lie his way out of paying back all or some of what he owes you. Some people also don't need the stress and hassle of taking such a case to recover money that is rightfully theirs.

That's just nonsense. This is the real world, no-one is getting taken to court for using their last month's rent as a deposit. If this place is left in it's original condition there is zero point in a landlord bringing a case. Not to mention the law is hugely in the tenants favour in Ireland. Look at that case last year of a woman who didn't pay rent for a very long time and when the landlord finally threw her out she took a case and won about €13K compensation from him.

My apartment is in immaculate condition and I am not willing to take the risk that my landlord will try and scam some or all of myself and my gf's deposit. I have seen it happen way too often. I also have no interest in going through the hassle of taking a prtb case, I really don't like unnecessary stress.

I understand what you're saying, i think the regulations should be tighter and arbitration should be faster. I am pointing out that while it is likely there are more ****ty landlords than tenants, there are ****ty tenants too.

Besides which you would be putting yourself in a bad position, you could withold the last months rent, the landlord then keeps the deposit and you think its all fine and dandy, then when you have left the landlord sue you, for breaking the law, its unlikely but they might do it to spite you as you have in a sense wronged them, you end up with a judgement, cant get loan, credit card

20goto10

gimme5minutes wrote: »

How is using your deposit to cover your final month's rent stupid? It seems like a very practical plan to me and it's what I plan to do when I leave my current accomodation. The amount of people getting stung for deposits these days is unreal, I have two cousins who have been ripped off by landlords in the last year alone. Loads of people on here have also been stung - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=10864188

Many landlords seem to be under the impression that they own your deposit as it has been sitting in their accounts so long and are very reluctant to give it back to you.

Listen the facts are you are renting someone elses property. If you want your deposit back you must keep it clean and in the same condition as when you started renting with the exception for wear and tear. You're saying you can rent a place, thrash the gaf, not pay your rent and then fcuk off out of the place and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's rubbish. There is a lot that can be done about it and I'd be very careful as landlords can play dirty too. Do you seriously expect a landlord to sit back while some smart bollox lives in his apartment and withholds the rent on the basis that all landlords are fcukers? Cop on. It's very stupid in the most obvious sense and I'm guessing you're on here trolling trying to get a rise from people. The problem is some people believe everything they read on the internet and might actually take your advice, with serious consequences.

gimme5minutes

Merch wrote: »

I understand what you're saying, i think the regulations should be tighter and arbitration should be faster. I am pointing out that while it is likely there are more ****ty landlords than tenants, there are ****ty tenants too.

Besides which you would be putting yourself in a bad position, you could withold the last months rent, the landlord then keeps the deposit and you think its all fine and dandy, then when you have left the landlord sue you, for breaking the law, its unlikely but they might do it to spite you as you have in a sense wronged them, you end up with a judgement, cant get loan, credit card

They won't be suing you. Suing someone involves a serious of hassle, stress and time. No landlord is going to put themselves through that when they haven't even been left out of pocket. They will be more than content with the fact that you fully paid what was due and the place was left in it's original condition. Nevermind the fact that it's only worthwhile suing someone when they have money, otherwise you are just throwing more money down the hole.

20goto10 wrote: »

Listen the facts are you are renting someone elses property. If you want your deposit back you must keep it clean and in the same condition as when you started renting with the exception for wear and tear. You're saying you can rent a place, thrash the gaf, not pay your rent and then fcuk off out of the place and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's rubbish.

No I didn't say you can thrash it and then just leave without paying rent. If you had've read my post correctly you would see that I said -

"If this place is left in it's original condition there is zero point in a landlord bringing a case"......and "My apartment is in immaculate condition"

If you trash the place then landlord could and should go after you through the courts.

On the day I am moving out I will ask the landlord to review the apartment for damage/breakages and if he has a problem with something I will pay whatever it is to cover it - but I don't foresee that being and issue as we have kept it in immaculate condition.

There is a lot that can be done about it and I'd be very careful as landlords can play dirty too. Do you seriously expect a landlord to sit back while some smart bollox lives in his apartment and withholds the rent on the basis that all landlords are fcukers? Cop on. It's very stupid in the most obvious sense and I'm guessing you're on here trolling trying to get a rise from people. The problem is some people believe everything they read on the internet and might actually take your advice, with serious consequences.

First of all, don't pull the trolling card on me to discredit my argument. I 100% stand behind my opinion and I have seen one or two other posters suggest the exact same thing in other threads on this subject.

I see the link to a search result in my post you quoted isn't working. So do this instead - Go to advanced search and search for "Deposit" and select "Search Titles Only" and select "Accommodation & Property" in the forum list. Have a good long read of those results. Landlords are screwing tenants over on deposits day in, day out, and it's gotten considerably worse since the recession.

I don't know what you are going on about "serious consequences" for - there are zero consequences if you have left the place in it's original condition. The only serious consequence I can think is what do you do when the landlord scams your deposit and you need that money for a deposit on your new house/apartment?

I believe it is almost naive not to take this approach in the current climate. Why take an unnecessary risk of getting screwed on your deposit? Give me one single reason (taking into account that you left the place in it's original condition)?

Many landlords probably aren't giving back deposits because they are under serious financial pressure and have simply zero liquid cash at present. Going by the amount of previous posts on this subject here I'd say there are alot of people here who wished they had've taken the approach of using their deposit to cover their last month's rent.

20goto10

gimme5minutes wrote: »

They won't be suing you. Suing someone involves a serious of hassle, stress and time. No landlord is going to put themselves through that when they haven't even been left out of pocket. They will be more than content with the fact that you fully paid what was due and the place was left in it's original condition. Nevermind the fact that it's only worthwhile suing someone when they have money, otherwise you are just throwing more money down the hole.




No I didn't say you can thrash it and then just leave without paying rent. If you had've read my post correctly you would see that I said -

"If this place is left in it's original condition there is zero point in a landlord bringing a case"......and "My apartment is in immaculate condition"

If you trash the place then landlord could and should go after you through the courts.

On the day I am moving out I will ask the landlord to review the apartment for damage/breakages and if he has a problem with something I will pay whatever it is to cover it - but I don't foresee that being and issue as we have kept it in immaculate condition.

First of all, don't pull the trolling card on me to discredit my argument. I 100% stand behind my opinion and I have seen one or two other posters suggest the exact same thing in other threads on this subject.

I see the link to a search result in my post you quoted isn't working. So do this instead - Go to advanced search and search for "Deposit" and select "Search Titles Only" and select "Accommodation & Property" in the forum list. Have a good long read of those results. Landlords are screwing tenants over on deposits day in, day out, and it's gotten considerably worse since the recession.

I don't know what you are going on about "serious consequences" for - there are zero consequences if you have left the place in it's original condition. The only serious consequence I can think is what do you do when the landlord scams your deposit and you need that money for a deposit on your new house/apartment?

I believe it is almost naive not to take this approach in the current climate. Why take an unnecessary risk of getting screwed on your deposit? Give me one single reason (taking into account that you left the place in it's original condition)?

Many landlords probably aren't giving back deposits because they are under serious financial pressure and have simply zero liquid cash at present. Going by the amount of previous posts on this subject here I'd say there are alot of people here who wished they had've taken the approach of using their deposit to cover their last month's rent.

Use other posts to back yourself up doesn't change anything. My point applies to those people too. Obviously 99% if not 100% of tenants will argue they should get their deposit back and 99% will feel cheated and robbed no matter what the circumstances. In some cases they have been robbed and should pursue it. The solution is not to withhold the final months rent, thats all I'm saying.

oflahero

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Many landlords probably aren't giving back deposits because they are under serious financial pressure and have simply zero liquid cash at present. Going by the amount of previous posts on this subject here I'd say there are alot of people here who wished they had've taken the approach of using their deposit to cover their last month's rent.

Turn this on its head for a second. "Many tenants don't bother leaving the place in a reasonable condition when they leave and still expect their deposit back, as they are under serious financial pressue. Going by the amount of previous posts on this subject I'd say there are a lot of landlords who discovered the mess tenants had left behind and wished they'd witheld the deposit, even inventing some spurious excuse to keep the whole thing." All we tenants would be raging at this, and rightly so.

gimme5minutes

20goto10 wrote: »

Use other posts to back yourself up doesn't change anything. My point applies to those people too. Obviously 99% if not 100% of tenants will argue they should get their deposit back and 99% will feel cheated and robbed no matter what the circumstances. In some cases they have been robbed and should pursue it. The solution is not to withhold the final months rent, thats all I'm saying.

Option 1) Pursue the landlord for the scammed deposit. And experience alot of hassle and stress while trying to get hold of him to get him to pay...then when you know he's not going to, taking a ptrb case and experiencing more hassle and stress for the next 12+ months while the case is waiting to be dealt with. And at the end of it there is no guarantee that you will get the deposit back or you may only get a % of it.

Option 2) Use your deposit as their last months rent. Move on with your life.

Well option 1 is what you prefer, fair play to you.

oflahero wrote: »

Turn this on its head for a second. "Many tenants don't bother leaving the place in a reasonable condition when they leave and still expect their deposit back, as they are under serious financial pressue. Going by the amount of previous posts on this subject I'd say there are a lot of landlords who discovered the mess tenants had left behind and wished they'd witheld the deposit, even inventing some spurious excuse to keep the whole thing." All we tenants would be raging at this, and rightly so.

That's not actually turning it on it's head. If landlords discovered a mess/damage they wouldn't give the tenant back the deposit and then start wishing they'd withheld it. They'd withhold it to start with.

Victor

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Option 2) Use your deposit as their last months rent. Move on with your life.

And potentially be sued / evicted for not paying your rent.