Photo location ?

kingdumb

hey,
Does anyone here know where this photo was taken ?



It was taken in 1952 somewhere in Tralee* by renowned photographer Henri Cartier-Bresson

*I am posting this in Kerry rather than Tralee as I am not 100% if it was taken in Tralee..

carchaeologist

I wonder is it down Moyderwell somewhere?

kingdumb

Had a wander around, Moyderwell, Ballonagh, Pres and the Bon, but cant seem to find anywhere that fits the bill.

carchaeologist wrote: »

I wonder is it down Moyderwell somewhere?

i had originally thought it might be Moyderwell too with the road being Deans Lane [ the length and the single right turn ] but the buildings don't match at all, and I doubt that they might have been demolished and the convent built in the last 60 years !

The closest match I can find, would be the old Ducas house building on Edward Street. The position of the side window [and door] match, but different styles. Plus I think I recall an old metal fire escape up there.
The front window would be a close match too if the all the detailing was removed and the side bits filled in.
The wall and small building dont match up at all, but again i think I recall a small building there, whitewashed with a green door, a few years back before renovations.
And the road being what is now Percy Hannifin way.
Just need to check a map !

As 11811 pointed out [afk] the photo was taken during Corpus Christi

here is another shot,

ghostly !

carchaeologist

Hmm..you could be right about that Kingdumb,i was trawling the kennelly Archive last night to try and get a match but failed.
I thought 1952 was Marian year,but it was 1954.

Acoshla

I don't know if this is any help but the second photo is outside the Dominican's Church on Staughton's Row, the building in the background is where Sol Travel is now, so it's definitely in Tralee so the other one might be too.

11811

Well they are sisters of Bons Secours in the photo so it could up around the strand road area, although I'm not sure if there is a building like that up there now...
Also,the street looks vaguely like park lane, the street between St Johns and Denny Street, so maybe there was a old building where the car park is now.

carchaeologist

I just showed this to the old lad who is of that vintage,well,he was 7 when it was taken! He cant place it either,reckons it might not be Tralee as you have said.

carchaeologist

Why do you need to know about the photo Kingdumb?

edgesgirl

Don't think it's Park Lane. The road curves to the right so it would be going into the Green. Don't think it's up around the Bons either, The row of buildings on strand street have prob been there a good while.
But across from the Bons (on the Huddle side) the old empty building on the end used to be a laundry that belonged to the church. So it could be Ray St.

carchaeologist

edgesgirl wrote: »

So it could be Ray St.

As in the one behind cliffords cash and carry?

kingdumb

I don't think Park Land would have ben around in those days [ not too sure tho']
As for Strand Road area, there has been alot of changes up that way, for example Matt Talbot road is all new so it is quite possible that it might have been taken up that there.

carchaeologist wrote: »

Why do you need to know about the photo Kingdumb?

No reason really. I first came accross the photos 13 years ago when I was abroad in a book on photography and couldn't figure out where that one in particular was taken. I came across it again last week, and it is bugging me now.

i found it a bit funny too that nobody have seen it before, not even in the library, and the photographer is very well known. If you think about all the other old photos of Tralee and stuck up in every second bar in town its a bit funny no ?

carchaeologist

kingdumb wrote: »

it is bugging me now.

Ha..your not the only one now!

If you think about all the other old photos of Tralee and stuck up in every second bar in town its a bit funny no

It is looking likely thats its not tralee going by the answers so far,i must do some driving around strand road though myself.:D

11811

carchaeologist wrote: »

Ha..your not the only one now!

yeah its bugging a few of us now! We'll have to get an answer...

verywiseman

There are significant convents in Listowel, Castleisland and indeed Ballybunion. And Killarney and Dingle cannot be ruled out either.

kingdumb

Are any of these 'Bon Secour' convents ?

verywiseman wrote: »

There are significant convents in Listowel, Castleisland and indeed Ballybunion. And Killarney and Dingle cannot be ruled out either.

440Hz

kingdumb wrote: »

Are any of these 'Bon Secour' convents ?

Not sure about the past, but it would appear that currently it is Tralee only

http://www.dioceseofkerry.ie/page/our-diocese/religious/sisters/

kingdumb

Monalee, Cahermoneen, Strand View ? I presume these are only houses, must check.

Well if there was no other Bons nuns in Kerry, it would give more weight to the location being Tralee.
Someone else had suggested that it might have been taken in Cork city, as he did travel around the country, but if it was Corpus Christi, and there is another photo that was definitely taken in Tralee that day, Tralee would seem more likely.

440Hz wrote: »

Not sure about the past, but it would appear that currently it is Tralee only

http://www.dioceseofkerry.ie/page/our-diocese/religious/sisters/

carchaeologist

Right then,iv done a bit of research on this..
This is the irish side of the story,they originated in france.

The work and spirituality of the early Sisters of Bon Secours attracted the attention of an Irish woman in Paris, Catherine O’Farrell, and, with her persuasion, 1861 saw the first foundation outside of France. Four sisters came to Dublin, bringing their mission of ‘Good Help’ and ‘Healing’ by caring for the sick and dying in their own homes.
With Ireland still suffering the effects of the Great Famine and centuries of intermittent warfare for religious and political freedom, Dublin was an over-crowded and poor city. Bon Secours Sisters were the first to stay in the home, caring for the sick and dying, for as long as required.

From their original convent in Granville Street, Dublin, the sisters moved to Lower Mount Street and also took charge of a ‘Penny Dinner’ Hall, now run under the auspices of Cross Care Services, where the sisters continue to minister.

In 1951, Bon Secours Hospital, Glasnevin opened and a major expansion was completed in 2006 and this modern acute general hospital is renowned for its high quality holistic care, for the sick, dying and their families.

News of the ministry spread and Sisters were invited to work in Cork, at Cobh and Mount Desert, and in Belfast, Tralee and Galway, where they responded to healthcare needs, whether an illness was contagious, epidemic or malignant e.g. T.B., Cholera, or Typhoid

A Sister from Dublin nursed a Cork priest, Fr. F. O’Connor during the 1866 cholera outbreak. At his invitation, and with the help of his brother, a doctor, the Sisters set up in Cork in 1867 living initially in Dyke Parade, later moving to what is now the Cork Museum and finally to College Road, building their first Convent
The Bon Secours Hospital in Cork was established in 1915, and the sisters still minister there today.
The Sisters also established a Maternity hospital in 1958 catering for over 2000 births each year. This was transferred to the new centralized Cork University Maternity Hospital in 2007

At the invitation of Bishop Dorrian, the Bons Secours Sisters set up a ministry in Belfast in 1872. The Sisters lived for many years on the Falls Road, courageously facing the reality of life in Belfast, visiting the poor, nursing the sick and dying in their homes, and providing residential care and a hospital chaplaincy service.

In 1975 when a bomb damaged their house they moved to Andersonstown, where they remained until 2008. At present one sister continues to provide compassionate loving care to the poor and less fortunate in Belfast

In 1879, a Lady Donovan was so impressed with the care the Sisters gave her
husband, she requested they set up a community to care for the sick and dying in Tralee. The Sisters first lived in Denny Street and later moved to Strand Street.
Bon Secours Hospital, Tralee was established in 1921 and is now a 130 bed acute general hospital.

In 1885 the Sisters were invited to nurse the sick and poor in the Tuam area.
Later in 1944 the sisters acquired a residence at the grove and converted it into a small nursing home. This expanded over the years to become a medical / surgical hospital. The hospital was closed in 2002 and the sisters relocated to Knock and Galway.

The current hospital in Renmore, Galway was purchased in 1999. The Sisters of the Little Company of Mary established this hospital originally in 1955. The hospital provides acute services in Galway and the Western Region and Sisters of Bon Secours bring spiritual nourishment to the patients and their families in the hospital

In 1932 when TB was rampant in Ireland, Bon Secours Sisters, invited by the Bishop of Cork to respond to this great need, built a sanatorium in Mount Desert serving the people of Cork until 1960. As TB was no longer a need it was converted to care of the elderly, which is a priority for Bon Secours.
In 2002 a new state-of-art facility replaced the old building, which provides care for 62 residents, consisting of long term, convalescent and respite care as well as independent living for older people.

In 1909 the Sisters were invited to care for the poor and sick in Cobh. In collaboration with the local priests and community the sisters provided dinners in a Penny Dinner Hall for the poor and children in the town. From 1929 to 2007 the sisters managed the local community Hospital. The Sisters continue to provide compassionate care to the sick and elderly in a new Day Care Centre and the local area.

So it would seem from the above pics that our picture can only have beeen taken in Dublin,Belfast,Cork,Cobh or Tralee.

This narrows it down a bit anyway.
Heres the link..
http://www.bonsecoursireland.org/index.cfm/page/sistersofbonsecours-ourhistory

edgesgirl

Have you thought about going to the Bons Secours hospital and asking some1 there?
I'm not sure if there are any sisters left but it wasn't that long ago, somebody must have been around then who remembers the photo being taken.Considering he was so famous.

Lkennedy

Hi kingdumb,

I'm working with the Bon Secours Sisters at the moment- I came across the HCB photo and asked one of the Sisters about it. One of the Sisters who used to live in Belfast says it was taken there, in Dunlewey street, just off the Falls Road. The Sisters moved out of their convent on the Falls Road after it suffered bomb damage.

kingdumb

Hey thats interesting,

Are you still in contact with that sister ?

If so maybe ask her if this is the convent ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerryward/615615960/in/photostream/

i wonder if this is the one she was thinking of, it is on Dunlewey Street...

but it is 3 stories and does not match the one in the Cartier-Bresson pic too well.

From the side it looks like it might have had some reconstruction tho, but I doubt that much.





I also find it funny that it would be in Belfast as in the books ( and Magnum website/ catalog ) the location is given as Tralee.

The other thing that would sugest this is that if both photos 9ie the one of Day Place were taken on Corpus Christi ( again this is not 100%) HCB would have had a bit of an epic journey to get from Tralee to Belfast in a few hours !

Lkennedy

Yes that was the Bon Secours convent on the Falls Road. I think there is another Congregation there now. There were repairs carried out on the building after it was damaged c.1972. The Sisters who had lived in Tralee apparently did not recognise the photo location. Thats all the info I have on it I'm afraid.

kingdumb

ok,

After coming across a photo of Tralee from the Morgan Collection, we can rule out old Ducas Building / Masonic Hall and Deans Lane.

Both of the photos [HBC's and Morgan's] would have been taken within a year or two of each other.

Still no wiser on the location tho' !

Quaderno

Thank you for these pics. If I get the second one right that church building stood on what is today the An Post employee car park. I do remember reading about a church having been there but I have never actually seen a photo of it.
As for the first picture: I know well where that convent building is, but I have difficulties "rotating" it mentally in the right position and may need some kind of clue. Where would for example today's library be in (or next to) that picture? Any help is much appreciated, I find those old shots really fascinating...

Edit: After watching the image again for a couple of minutes I think I have it now. The library should be just out of the picture towards the left. What I find confusing though is that Deans Lane seems to have been the only road there at the time, whereas today you would probably continue straight through from Boherbee to Ballymullen, instead of turning into Deans Lane at the lower left corner of the picture. May be it's just in the shadow...

edgesgirl

Are we sure they are Bons Secours sisters?:rolleyes:

Quaderno

edgesgirl wrote: »

Are we sure they are Bons Secours sisters?:rolleyes:

I would think so:
[URL="https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/142632/191937.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

kingdumb

Hey Quaderno

Ya that old church [Methodist] and the rectory/parochial house, stood where the An Post car park [actually the more you see old picture of Tralee it is a shame the amount of nice building that were torn down in the last century] the National library have a nice shot of it.

You are correct about Deans Lane, and the library, that was buit on the site a hospital.

Quaderno wrote: »

Thank you for these pics. If I get the second one right that church building stood on what is today the An Post employee car park. I do remember reading about a church having been there but I have never actually seen a photo of it.
As for the first picture: I know well where that convent building is, but I have difficulties "rotating" it mentally in the right position and may need some kind of clue. Where would for example today's library be in (or next to) that picture? Any help is much appreciated, I find those old shots really fascinating...

Edit: After watching the image again for a couple of minutes I think I have it now. The library should be just out of the picture towards the left. What I find confusing though is that Deans Lane seems to have been the only road there at the time, whereas today you would probably continue straight through from Boherbee to Ballymullen, instead of turning into Deans Lane at the lower left corner of the picture. May be it's just in the shadow...

Edward Street:


Deans Lane:

kingdumb

hey edgesgirl,

So is says on there banner [as Quaderno pointed out]

We know that HSB was in Tralee that day, [see shots outside the Doms.] and as Tralee is the only Bons convent in Kerry, Tralee would seem like the location.

But it is also possible that he took the Doms shot and then headed to Cork/Limerick.

edgesgirl wrote: »

Are we sure they are Bons Secours sisters?:rolleyes:

kingdumb

Well finally, I think we have the location, but it ain't in Tralee...



It was the taken on the old Finglas road in Dublin, Mr. Cartier-Bresson must have miss-labeled it.

Quaderno

Wow, I didn't really think this riddle was going to be solved after nearly four years How did you find the right location?

carchaeologist

Fantabulistic!
As Quaderno said, how the hell did you figure that, did it take you all those years to Google street view every street in the land.....