Do you believe in God?And is God a he or a she?

Xiney

I just want to say, in the interest of fairness since this thread seems to be dominated by heathens at the moment, that I have no real problem with people who have faith.

I would consider it much in the same way as I would a fan of a band I don't particularly like. Even though I might say something like "dude, Nickleback sucks total ass" it doesn't mean I think you, as a fan of Nickleback, suck ass. Discussing music probably isn't in the best interests of our friendship, but if it does come up, I'm likely to admit that they did have one or two catchy songs.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jules

I was baptisied, made my communion and my confirmation. I was dragged to mass every sunday, actaully all of the kids in my family went together, up to a certain age. I always remember the idea of there being one god a bit strange. In a childish sense like, "how can he, and i was brought up to believe he was a he, make all these decisions at once. How can he see everything, my mum always says you can't be every where at once!" Where always my questions. Never really accept the idea of an all powerful being who you had to whorsip by doing xy and z and if you didn't do them you got in trouble.

As i got older i started to look at different belief systems, and the one i have found most peace with and sits best with me is Paganism. I'm not an expert, i don't have all the answers but i'm reading and learning and enjoy finding out about it. Religion, belief systems, what ever you want to call it is extremely personal and no one should be persecuted for what they believe.

Nevyn

Xiney wrote: »

I just want to say, in the interest of fairness since this thread seems to be dominated by heathens at the moment, that I have no real problem with people who have faith.

Heathens have faith and Gods, there's a thread on that atm in the paganism forum. and I am not a Heathen.

There are many people who have faith and express their spirituality some use religion to do that and some walk their own path.

Some of the members of my family are devote Catholics and I respect them for it, I think that having faith is a positive thing in a persons life.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am not going to hog this thread but there is a thread on deity in the paganism forum you wish to have that dicussion there.

g'em

I am utterly confused as to what I do and don't believe in tbh. I teach science, and I believe what I teach. I believe in Darwinian evolution and I believe in the complexity of biological systems and the thought that some higher being could create that complexity á la "The Creator" just defies plausibility.

And yet, with the same conviction I have that science is logical and understandable and full of common sense, I find I have the same assurance that the idea that there's something more is equally believable. I have NO clue what that more could be - I was brought up CoI with a huge Methodist and Catholic mix in the family, and my Godfather is a minister so I come from a strong Christian background. But the more I talk to people of other faiths and backgrounds and beliefs the more I find myself saying "which one is the real one" as opposed to "they're all barmy and talking nonsense". I do believe in a higher power, even though it massively contradicts everything I've been taught and now teach about science, but what exactly that higher power is I haven't figured out yet.

I guess I'm an agnostic theist.

mariaalice

Even though i believe there is something beyond us and beyond our understanding ... if someone proved that there is nothing ....id be happy to think when i die id be fertilizing the earth ( i find that idea comforting somehow )....i think prayed is a form of magical thinking but at the same time i pray and i go to mass now and then...i know that sound illogical and perverse...thats the thing belief isn't logical...i also belief that the collective human consciousness can bring gods in to being (thats not the same as saying humans created god because we needed a god as a stage of human development )

has anyone ever had a peak experience ( look it up)..

Malari

I'm an atheist. I took that quiz that was posted further up the thread and it came out 100% secular humanist, so maybe I'm one of those too.

I am honestly surprised that there aren't more atheists. It strikes me as infantile, naive and ignorant to believe in a god.

But going to church and getting involved in rituals and things I can understand. Some of my friends feel a community belonging and "spirituality" with their local church, although they don't actually believe in a god. I can't get any understanding of what spirituality means to me though.

Nevyn

Malari wrote: »

I'm an atheist. I took that quiz that was posted further up the thread and it came out 100% secular humanist, so maybe I'm one of those too.

I am honestly surprised that there aren't more atheists. It strikes me as infantile, naive and ignorant to believe in a god.

There is the atheist and agnostic forum, with an attitude like that I am sure you will make friend there.

Malari wrote: »

But going to church and getting involved in rituals and things I can understand. Some of my friends feel a community belonging and "spirituality" with their local church, although they don't actually believe in a god. I can't get any understanding of what spirituality means to me though.

That is what makes you a secular humanist, that you see the need for those things for a person and for community.

Malari

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is the atheist and agnostic forum, with an attitude like that I am sure you will make friend there.

I'm aware of it. And not everyone there thinks like that. It doesn't make me intolerant, and it's not the first time that view has been posted, even on this thread.

g'em

Malari on this thread no-one but you has described theists as "infantile, naive and ignorant".

I suggest you take great care in considering how you word your views in future. It may not be a direct sleight against one person in particular, but it's a rather damning opinion to have of the people who are very honestly expressing their views.

Whilst you may not have faith, surely you believe in common decency?

Malari

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

To me, a belief in a deity is just kinda ignorant. Maybe I'm being a cúnt.

I wouldn't have said ignorant unless someone else had before with impunity. And I wouldn't have thought naive was any more offensive than what anyone else has posted. Infantile is maybe too strong.

So I apologise if I have caused offence.

Handsome Bob

Malari wrote: »

I am honestly surprised that there aren't more atheists. It strikes me as infantile, naive and ignorant to believe in a god.

If you go over to the Christianity forum, you will find plenty of posters who have given their faith a lot of serious thought. They have explored their faith in detail and have still come to the conclusion that what they believe is the "truth". I hate to see arguments such as yours because it plays into the stereotypical view of religious people; that they are all dumb and brainwashed. I mean how insulting is that attitude?

Religion also plays a significant role in the lives of a lot of people who are going through the bereavement process. You may think that the answers these people seek are ignorant or makes them weak, but what I think is truly ignorant is judging these people after they have lost a loved one. If they need religion to give them the strength to carry on then so be it, no-one has the right to dismiss these people as ignorant.

Goduznt Xzst

Hermione* wrote: »

I believe in God. Always have. Nearly five years ago...

Nearly five years ago I stood at the foot of the grave of my close friends 3 year old daughter. She died from cancer. In that moment of literally heart crushing agony I realized that all around the world parents are burying their babies, watching them die, dealing with the exploitation, rape, starvation and murder of their children... and the thought of all these people believing their is a loving God up there in the sky watching all this literally made me nauseous.

As a decent human being, how many children could you watch get raped and killed before you'd do something about it? If you even let 1 happen when you had the power to stop it would you define yourself as "loving"?

Xiney

Thaedydal wrote: »

Heathens have faith and Gods, there's a thread on that atm in the paganism forum. and I am not a Heathen.

Ah, my mistake. I meant heathen in the jokey sense.

Mr. Presentable

If God existed and the stories are true, god is male. He got a woman knocked up, no?

panda100

liah wrote: »

Anyway, the reason for god being portrayed as a man is quite simple-- men were in control. Men created the books. Of course the god would be a man. But it's interesting-- in the ancient religions, Greek and Egyptian and Roman, there were gods of all sorts. Male, female, even hermaphrodites (guess where the name comes from?) and half-human half-animals were in positions of deities.

I always used to think of Ancient worlds being very opressive and patriachal compared to our enlightened times. However,when it came to Gods they were equal opportunists it seems. Aphrodite was always my fav of the ancient Gods.

I know Hinduism has as many female Gods as male Gods,does anyone know of any other religions that have female Gods?

panda100

nipplenuts wrote: »

If God existed and the stories are true, god is male. He got a woman knocked up, no?

Christain God is undoubtly male as Jesus called him 'Father'.
I think it was the fathers spirit, the holy spirit, that impregnated Mary.

Wibbs

Most of the older religions had the duality thing going on. Male and female gods, or a head spirit that had both. Indeed some researchers have suggested the very earliest Judaism or those that led to it had both going on. It seems when humanity became farmers the male side took over.

WindSock

panda100 wrote: »

I always used to think of Ancient worlds being very opressive and patriachal compared to our enlightened times. However,when it came to Gods they were equal opportunists it seems. Aphrodite was always my fav of the ancient Gods.

I know Hinduism has as many female Gods as male Gods,does anyone know of any other religions that have female Gods?

Voodooism is a matriarchial religion, afaik.

And there are female deities in Buddhism.

WindSock

Tried that beliefnet thing. Neo-Pagan 1, Roman Catholic 26 & Jehovas Witness last at 27 :pac:

2-10 Are mostly eastern religions and Quaker too.

Catari Jaguar

panda100 wrote: »

I
I know Hinduism has as many female Gods as male Gods,does anyone know of any other religions that have female Gods?

Our own Celtic paganism and mythology has many female godesses such as oul "Saint" Brigid, the bringer of Spring.

Ireland was named after a Trinity of Goddesses - Fodhla, Eriu and Banbha. The Celts had Godesses of poetry, war, life & death, love, fertility, beauty, plenty, healing, crafts, sleep and dreams, disease... Pretty much everything. Danu was the Creation Goddess (Mother of The Tuath de Danann) Morrigan was the Great Queen - supreme warrior Goddess, very dark, sensual, powerful. Queen Maeve could conquer and enslave entire armies and needed 30 men a day to satisfy her lust.

If it wasn't for that meddling St Patrick, we'd be dancing around bonfires howling at the moon... I think I'd like to have lived back then.

Nevyn

WindSock wrote: »

Voodooism is a matriarchial religion, afaik.

REally?
As I know it there are male and female Loa in 'Voodoo' or Vodun.

WindSock wrote: »

And there are female deities in Buddhism.

Eh there are no deities in Buddhism.

ztoical

WindSock wrote: »

Voodooism is a matriarchial religion, afaik.

In Vodun there is One God with many helpers and said god is male. The different areas of voodoo that developed from this [in Haiti and Louisiana] it is a mixture of Vodun beliefs with Catholic beliefs. Voodoo queens have a strong place in Louisiana voodoo but they aren't gods, just priests.

Wibbs

Lil Kitten wrote: »

If it wasn't for that meddling St Patrick, we'd be dancing around bonfires howling at the moon

Actually an interesting thing about Patrick is unlike damn near every other bishop at the time elsewhere, he mentions nothing about sex or sexuality. The Irish were known at the time and indeed after they converted) for their open views on sexuality. Maybe he kept quiet while trying to sell the new religion, but I suspect not.

He just wasnt as hung up as other church leaders. Augustine of hippo being a classic example(his da was also called Patrick/Patricius funny enough). And that issue with sexuality comes down to us today. I suspect if the Irish church had won over Rome back then it would not be nearly so obsessed with nookie.

Nor would it be nearly so male led either. Women led monastaries as an example. Which among other things had the mainstream Roman church go WTF?

What is also interesting about Ireland and faith is that Ireland was the only pretty much bloodless mass conversion to Christianity in history. The very strong warrior culture also looked at ascetism as the new dying in battle. Dying for god IIRC was seen as red martyrdom, while the life apart in contemplation and prayer was seen as white martyrdom. Hence the lads and lasses in places like the skelligs. They bent the existing faiths to the new one. Holy wells, groves etc. Usually venerating a female deity too(brigid/mary).

Plus as Patrick had been a slave he had serious issues with the practice. Much more than in the mainstream roman church. So within a generation the Irish gave up slavery as a way of life, because of this new faith. The first nation on earth to do so. Considering the rest of the Christian world kept it going in one way or another until the mid 19th century, that's pretty damned impressive.

I would say veneration of the virgin Mary is a major holdover of earlier times. In the roman world she replaced Diana etc and in Ireland found very fertile ground as a replacement of the existing female god force. I think she's like one of the patrons of Ireland too?

Overature

God is a Dinosaur

Catari Jaguar

Belief O Matic results:

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers (86%) um....
4. Neo-Pagan (82%)
5. New Age (77%)

Lia_lia

liah wrote: »

Nope, don't believe in a god and will never understand how people can convince themselves it exists.

Yup. Pretty much same here.



I didn't even really know religion existed until I moved to this country when I was 7 or so. My Mother got my brother and I baptised when I was 7 and he was 3 so just so we would make our communion etc to fit in with the other kids here, basically. But we never went to mass or anything.

I honestly just can't grasp how people believe in religion/god/whatever at all. And I don't mean to offend anyone but that's just what I think.

Maple

I really don't know what I believe. I don't understand all the different religions, i've never researched them, don't know the differences between them and have no real interest in learning them either.

Personally I just believe in being a good person, I believe in good energy and being positive.

I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and my mother is the greatest bible basher alive, I had sore knees as a child from being made to say the Rosary, yet for a woman that claims to be holier than thou and attends mass on an almost daily basis she's the most unpleasant, hypocritical, mean woman in existence. I don't see what she's taking from her religion, unless there's something in the Bible about persecuting her children.

I think the only thing i've taken from the religion i've grown up with is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

If I had to categorise myself, i'd have no idea.

Latchy

maple wrote: »

I really don't know what I believe. I don't understand all the different religions, i've never researched them, don't know the differences between them and have no real interest in learning them either.

Personally I just believe in being a good person, I believe in good energy and being positive.

I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and my mother is the greatest bible basher alive, I had sore knees as a child from being made to say the Rosary, yet for a woman that claims to be holier than thou and attends mass on an almost daily basis she's the most unpleasant, hypocritical, mean woman in existence. I don't see what she's taking from her religion, unless there's something in the Bible about persecuting her children.

I think the only thing i've taken from the religion i've grown up with is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

If I had to categorise myself, i'd have no idea.

maple wrote: »

I really don't know what I believe.

Me niether

I don't understand all the different religions, i've never researched them, don't know the differences between them and have no real interest in learning them either.

Personally I just believe in being a good person, I believe in good energy and being positive.

I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and my mother is the greatest bible basher alive, I had sore knees as a child from being made to say the Rosary, yet for a woman that claims to be holier than thou and attends mass on an almost daily basis she's the most unpleasant, hypocritical, mean woman in existence I don't see what she's taking from her religion, unless there's something in the Bible about persecuting her children

If I had to categorise myself, i'd have no idea.

I could so easy have wriitten all the above as your post echos my sentiments exactly

Catari Jaguar

maple wrote: »

for a woman that claims to be holier than thou and attends mass on an almost daily basis she's the most unpleasant, hypocritical, mean woman in existence. I don't see what she's taking from her religion, unless there's something in the Bible about persecuting her children.

Um.. Isn't this the definition of an Irish Catholic woman/ Mammy?

McChubbin

Christianity: supporting zombie hippies since AD 2000 :rolleyes:

Wibbs

AD 0 I would have thought.....

Catari Jaguar

Wibbs wrote: »

AD 0 I would have thought.....

Gospel of Matthew states Jesus was born while Herod was alive and he died in 4 BC... So He would have been about 4 or 5 years old in 0 AD

Whereas Luke puts it at 6 AD (according to census).

I dunno when, but it sure ain't 2000 AD!

princess-lala

Ive been thinking about this alot since this thread appeared, for my own sanity I have to believe theres something there!

I dont know about god but there is some sort of afterlife and for that I need a "type" of god

Ickle Magoo

princess-lala wrote: »

I dont know about god but there is some sort of afterlife and for that we need a "type" of god

Not if you believe in reincarnation...

princess-lala

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Not if you believe in reincarnation...

I dont think I mentioned reincarnation, I believe that when we die we dont just go into the ground I think (hope) our spirit goes somewhere!

Ickle Magoo

princess-lala wrote: »

I dont think I mentioned reincarnation, I believe that when we die we dont just go into the ground I think (hope) our spirit goes somewhere!

I know, you said there needed to be a god for a life after death or after-life, I was just pointing out that isn't the case for some who believe in reincarnation - it was another option for your sanity.

Galvasean

princess-lala wrote: »

Ive been thinking about this alot since this thread appeared, for my own sanity I have to believe theres something there!

I dont know about god but there is some sort of afterlife and for that we need a "type" of god

This type of reasoning perplexes me. Why do we 'need' it?

princess-lala

Galvasean wrote: »

This type of reasoning perplexes me. Why do we 'need' it?

Ok maybe you dont but for my own personal reasons I need to think it!

Handsome Bob

Galvasean wrote: »

This type of reasoning perplexes me. Why do we 'need' it?

*Some* people need it if the idea that we're insignificant in the grand scheme of things is not attractive to them. Some people need to add some sort of meaning to life in order to have the strength to last.

Ickle Magoo

I think the thought of death and dying can be quite scary, closing your eyes one day and that's it - goodnight Vienna, no more of anything. I know a lot of people who really hope that there is more to death than that, which I can understand - it's not the most pleasant thought.

legatti

I belive in the universe, the earth and creation
that we are all energy and linked to one another and everything surrounding us.

God, can be part of this belief, but i dont belive in anything "organised religion" teaches.
jesus of nazareth did exsist, he was a man who walked this earth,
was he the son of god? i dont think so..
did he work miracles, or was he a wise man ahead of his time?

i know jesus and mary and the rest of the crew , did not have blue eyes, and white skin who coming from nazareth at that time would???
wonderful book the bible, but fiction

for thoose who need to hold onto to the belief, because they dont want to belive that theres nothing once we die, for me thats a case of
we dont die... as we are energy, therefore the energy never ceases:)

Lockstep

I'm in something of a different position.


My parents were nominally Catholic, so we occasionally went to mass, I was baptised, confirmed etc. When I was around 15, I decided I was an atheist. Felt nothing, no sense of God etc. I went to a school run by the EU which was extremely secular (we had to do philosophy as part of the syllabus and one of the first things we covered was rebuttles of arguments for God)

When I got older, I started to feel something. It's impossible to explain but I really felt like there was something out there. Started to read the Bible, pray and so on. As I went on with this, I really felt a stronger and stronger sense of something out there. Decided it was God. It isn't a rational decision at all and needs to be experienced rather than forced, however, I don't see religion and science as incompatible (I view religion as why and science as how) However, for me faith was an intensely personal thing, it wasn't something that could be explained or forced. It just happened. For this reason, I usually don't talk to people about religion and our beliefs. There's usually little point.
Although I did find my Catholicism growing the more I read into it. I always thought of it as a bigoted, homophobic, ultra-conservative institution which was scared of sex and humanity. Once I started reading into it, I found a lot of what I had previously believed about it was unfounded or misrepresented.
My family is somewhat strange; my dad and little brother are theists, my sister appears to be agnostic and my older brother and mother are atheists.
Took the belief net quiz; 100% Orthodox, 100% Roman Catholic.


I understand from reading this thread that a lot of TLL readers will now have scorn for me, just thought I'd add in my 2c.

To address the thread topic;
I don't see God as a he or a she; we're all made in his/her image. I just use the male pronoun for simplicity's sake.

Greyfox

Galvasean wrote: »

This type of reasoning perplexes me. Why do we 'need' it?

Because if a member of my family died in order to cope with the loss I'd have to believe their going "somewhere" and that their not just rotting away in the ground. I can't accept the fact that I'm going to die one day without the belief that their must be "something" that happens after death. Lot's of people like myself need to believe that theirs some higher power, something has to happen...otherwise our existense and what we do in life is utterly pointless

liah

Greyfox wrote: »

otherwise our existense and what we do in life is utterly pointless

..Why?

Is it not a point enough to you to live life, have fun, love, feel, hope? Is that not good enough? Does there have to be some reward for you at the end of life?

The point of life for me is to live it.. I don't need some big goal at the end of it. My point in life is to experience the world and to be happy and make others happy. Why on earth does there have to be some big great thing at the end of it all? Why are you not satisfied with the beauty of life itself..?

Mackman

Very interesting thread.

I was raised catholic, baptised etc. But i questioned it after my confirmation. I guess now im an Atheist, i dont believe there is a god/afterlife. We are just animals, very advanced animals, but animals none the less.

I believe jesus was a dude that lived c.2000 years ago, preached and all that. But what he said was lies. His intentions were noble, and he had some great ideas about human nature etc. But in order for people to listen to him, he had to invent his Dad, God.

I have no problem with people believing in a god or a higher power or something. Sometimes i wish that i did, but i just cant let myself believe it without any solid proof.

I do agree with the moral eachings of the catholic church, and when i have kids, they will go to a catholic school. If only to learn the values and morals, i will let them make up their own mind on the God thing.

Wibbs

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I understand from reading this thread that a lot of TLL readers will now have scorn for me,

That's the part that ticks me off in debates like this tbh. I don't believe in your path, but I see it as yours and respect that. IMHO Too often the Atheist view is antagonistic and ironically holier than thou.

just thought I'd add in my 2c.

And dead right.

Truley

Came from a Catholic family but went to an Educate Together school so was exposed to lots of different religions and ideas (including the idea of no religion) from a very early age. I'm very curious by nature and the idea of God never sat well with me. I really believe children are athiest by default, and really I don't think they need religion maybe better skills to cope with what life has to throw at them. My moral compass didn't come from a book, a priest or even my parents. Its something I developed myself from life experience and observation. Myself, I always found the idea of going to sleep forever quite a comforting idea, much more so than the prospect of hell and a very ambigious heaven.
In short the world is tough and scary enough without having to make up imaginary scary things to worry about

EDIT: The Christian God is definately a male - albeit with very bad PMS

Maple

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I understand from reading this thread that a lot of TLL readers will now have scorn for me, just thought I'd add in my 2c.

I wouldn't think so. You've said it's intensely personal for you and you're not trying to ram your beliefs down anyone's throat, nor have you disparaged another poster's beliefs. You've spoken with dignity so no, I can't see anyone scorning you.

Maybe buying you a new shiny set of rosary beads for your next birthday but no, not scorn.

panda100

Mackman wrote: »

I believe jesus was a dude that lived c.2000 years ago, preached and all that. But what he said was lies. His intentions were noble, and he had some great ideas about human nature etc. But in order for people to listen to him, he had to invent his Dad, God.

To me Jesus was an important revoloutinary as much as Marx or Trotsky in his day. His teachings were extremely progressive for the times he lived in.
He was very much against the ruling elite and trying to motivate the most downtroden,and he treated everyone equally regardless of gender or status. He challenged the religious leaders of the day and spoke vehmently against racial hatred and opression. Also like many great revolutinorys he was persecuted by those in power who wanted to keep the status quo in their favour.

I think he used the religious slant to try and get through to people more. Maybe he thought telling people he was the son of God would make them take him more seriously and listen to him more?