The end of the road (are we there yet?)

pgmcpq

Brianderunner wrote: »

I've done none at all if it makes you feel any better :pac: Why do pmp miles in training when you can just save it all for race day

LOL. You might be right - all this training is just a drain ! We should all stay in bed and rest. Want to collaborate on a new training book based on this revolutionary technique ? The speaking tours ...etc ... sponsered by a sofa company maybe ...:D

Tuesday PM : 4+ miles, Pace: 7.48 ... maybe ?

Group run. Forgot to switch the Garmin off so I'm basing the pace on "moving pace". Actually though I was motoring .... I had thought my pace was below 7.00 as I was pacing off one of the faster runners in the group ... but no.

Wednesday: 14 miles w/11 at PMP. Pace 7.10

This seemed like my last chance to get some PMP miles in. Not too cold ...27f (-3c) with little wind - as good as it has been for some time. So one less layer of clothing. Now it is a bit late in the day to be doing a long PMP session but with 2+ weeks to go it seemed worth the risk. Had not definite idea how long I was going but I dropped to sub PMP pace naturally after a mile. I ended up going doing more than I intended but once I hit a rythem it a pity to break the cycle. Some of the miles dropped closer tempo pace which is not ideal. Did not remember the HRM - pity would have been interesting.

Miles (PMP=7.15): 7.17, 6.55, 6.52, 6.45, 7.01, 6.59, 7.09, 6.52, 6.54, 7.01, 7.02

Tired but not blown out at the end so pretty happy with that after a 13 mile day yesterday. Good to know that the pace is in there. On less positive note it remindes me how poor my pace discipline is. This is the final hard session before taper. Probably do some PMP miles at the end of this weeks LSR (17 miles) and I think there is a V02 session next week. But this session was a boost for my confidence.:)

Brianderunner

pgmcpq wrote: »

LOL. You might be right - all this training is just a drain ! We should all stay in bed and rest. Want to collaborate on a new training book based on this revolutionary technique ? The speaking tours ...etc ... sponsered by a sofa company maybe ...:D

Sure, but i own the copyright, i want a 60/40 split of sales or i'm going solo :pac:

I think its time to change your target in Barca to sub 3'10 don't you? you're knocking out some savage stuff at the mo.

pgmcpq

Brianderunner wrote: »

Sure, but i own the copyright, i want a 60/40 split of sales or i'm going solo :pac:

Hard bargain .... ok but I get exclusive rights over the merchandising. Here's the prototype of the new footware :

Brianderunner wrote: »

I think its time to change your target in Barca to sub 3'10 don't you? .

Aggghhh.... don't be putting evil thoughts in my head ! Sadly my history at the marathon distance is training much better than I run ! Not sure if it is a flaw in training or a mental thing but 3.10 is a bridge too far this time. The high mileage this time around is an attempt to "fix the fade". Really not sure what my target is .... sub 3.20 for sure as this is BQ-10.

Thursday AM: 6 miles, recovery, mainly grass/wood. Pace 9.21

Enough snow has melted to open up a narrow patch of (slightly soggy) grass around the edges of some of the playing fields. So finally able to get in a few miles on grass. Great morning - well above freezing. Club run tonight is a must !

pgmcpq

Have let this go a few days ..

Thursday PM: 5.5 miles, Pace 7.34

Club run. Hung with some of the faster breakaway groups so was surprised at how slow the overall pace was as the end. Nice run though.

Friday AM: 6 miles recovery, grass Pace 9.22

Finally enough snow has melted to restore my usual 1 mile grass loop to me. Running on grass feels like an effort again after so long. Still my knees will thank me.

Saturday: 18 miles, Pace 8.04, Duration 2:31

A wild day. Very strong winds which may any attempt to head east feel like running in a wind tunnel. Ran this a bit faster than intended - probably sub consciously wanting to get out of this damn wind. 6miles + 9 with the Saturday group + 3 solo at the end. Felt pretty good.

Sunday: 6 miles recovery grass, Pace 8.58

Still pretty windy. Tougher than I'd want for recovery.

Went for a massage. Interesting place ... the woman who seems to run it speaks just a few English phrases. One of which is "harder" - i.e. do you want her to apply more pressure. At one point when I said "yes" there was a pause and I (face down) had the sense that something odd was happening - then I realised she had climbed the table and was now on top of me using her complete body weight on my back and shoulders. I had visions of the table collapsing ...

Monday: 8 miles, Pace 7.36

*Sigh* If snowed again overnight. Temps are back below freezing. Roads are not too bad so I got the run in outside. I had hoped that I would get a few decent days at least for taper ... but no chance. Run was tough - legs were heavy - again I am putting this down to the massage from yesterday and assuming nothing to worry about. My last massage is Saturday ....

Allllrriiiiighty then .... taper time is here !

So a checkpoint.

Health: Well I am uninjured this time ....which is a plus. My left knee is at its usual niggle state which really only bothers me until I warm up. No worse than before and hopefully taper will help it out. Once again I have lost the grass to run on (to the latest snow fall) which is a blow. Other than that and a little tightness all is well.

Training: I have been able to get in some high mileage in but not enough tempo, or MP miles (and essentially no V02 work) again again because of trying to train through winter.

Recent form: One race - a HM PB back in January. Nothing since.

So where am I ? Well taking everything into account I would hope my endurance is better than it was in Dublin. My speed might be questionable. But in truth there is no way to know now until the day.

From Dublin I am taking the lesson that I need to stick to my nutrition plan, get more sleep especially with the flight coming up ....and get my head back in the game when things go wrong at mile 18+.

I think I will tuck my self behind the 3.15 group but not really make any effort to join the group until late in race. Patience is key.

pgmcpq

Tuesday AM: 6 miles, recovery , treadmill, Pace ~9.00, incline 1-3%

Up and ready to go. A quick step outdoors, an even quicker return ... a check of the temperature - windchill is 2F ...(-17C). Back to the gym ... where I had just walked in and was promptly told off for wearing a hat. Head covering are banned and my woolly knit hat could easily be mistaken for gang colours :rolleyes:. Trundled though 6 miles.

Tuesday PM: 5 miles ...

At least 20 degrees warmer by 8pm. Still below freezing but balmy by comparison with the morning. 5 miles with a few at decent clip (below 8.00). forgot to stop the watch so overall pace is anyone's guess.

Wednesday: 9 miles with 3*1m.

Last V02 session. Again cold (about 20f ... -7C?) - not much specific training for Barca weather wise - if it snows I am in good shape. Hard to work up enthusiasm on mornings like this and the three 1 mile intervals (1.6km) looked daunting. Beats me how I every reach paces below this in 5ks but for what it is worth there miles were ...
6.26, 6.16, 6.24 with about 0.3 of a mile recovery between them.

Have to spend Thursday night setting up table for a social event for the local running club, Friday night at the event and Saturday night out. Week 1 of taper is looking like one of my most demanding.

ronanmac

pgmcpq wrote: »

Beats me how I every reach paces below this in 5ks but for what it is worth there miles were ...
6.26, 6.16, 6.24 with about 0.3 of a mile recovery between them.

I often wonder the same thing... I struggle to get up to prescribed pace on intervals, but once a race starts, I look down at my watch and have to remind myself to slow down

Best of luck with the snow in Barcelona though!:D

pgmcpq

Thursday AM: 5 miles, recovery, Pace 9:19

Thursday PM : 5.5 miles, recovery, Pace 9.00+
Group run, took it easy and hung out with a new guy who just joined. Followed by some light furniture moving - crosstraining ? Priority was to avoid landing anything large on a toe.

Took Friday off breaking a 34 day streak. Club fund raiser at night

Saturday: 14 miles, Pace 8.23.

A enjoyable run. I ran with one of the clubs faster guys -primarily a 1mile to 10k guy. Finally snow has cleared from enough of the route to be able to run without worrying about staying upright. At one point we were passed by some people who knew my companion. I was tempted to join them but their pace seemed to be pushing it. Turned out they were all sub 2.45 marathon guys who were doing 16 miles at 6.40 pace. :eek:.
I quickly dropped off ! 6.40 would be a tough LT pace for me. Once again I am reminded quite what a sub 3 marathon takes.

Rest of the day was a Mr. Bean impression. In the darkness on Friday I missed a residential only parking sign and had my car clamped.
Total cost $216 :mad:. Then my massage got cancelled and no one else was avaialable.

Sunday: 4 miles, recovery, grass. Pace: 9.00
Monday: 6 miles, recover, treadmill, Pace 9,00+, incline 2%

A wet wild morning and a desite to keep to softer surfaces to nurse my ever cranky knee meant that I resigned myself to the gym.

Very,very light week this week. Am I am finally getting this taper thing right ?

pgmcpq

Tuesday: 7.5 miles, (5 recovery, grass + 2@PMP + 0.5 w/d)

Cold but clear. Wind was a problem keeping pace so PMP miles were :

7.20, 7.06 - the difference being the amount of time spent running against the headwind. PMP miles were more difficult than I would have hoped. Hope I've not overcooked the taper this time.

pgmcpq

Wednesday: 5.5 miles, grass recovery, w/7*100 track

Stiff wind made this interesting and somewhat less than fun. The strides were directly into and away from the wind on each straight away of the track ... with the wind I reached paces as fast as 5.2X .... against wind I was as slow as 6.5x !

Almost there .... run tomorrow, fly into Barcelona tomorrow night arriving Friday morning. So Friday will be a rest day. Run Saturday - the breakfast run sounds like fun but might skip it it in favor of sleep. Then - hopefully - pull it all together on the day, Sunday.

I don't think I have ever gone into a run with less idea of what sort of shape I am in this one. Hope the surprise is a good one !

menoscemo

If you're on the breakfast run see you there, therwise i'll catch up with you at some stage on the Sunday. (you have my number).

Best of luck anyway. You've done more miles than me and no injuries this time so I'm sure you'll have a good one...

pgmcpq

menoscemo wrote: »

If you're on the breakfast run see you there, therwise i'll catch up with you at some stage on the Sunday. (you have my number).

Best of luck anyway. You've done more miles than me and no injuries this time so I'm sure you'll have a good one...

Cheers - I'll give you a buzz. Not sure about the breakfast run .... if we're up and enthusiastic we'll look at it. Well I've just been doing miles basically because that's all I couild do for the last two months.
Your quality in training has really been impressive - ending 26 mile training runs with more left in the tank ....let's say after Barceloan I am going to be re reading your log post Dublin very very carefully. Good luck.

Thursday: 3.25 miles, 9.00+, grass,wood.

Not possible to do too little in the last week ? I'll take them at their word. To the aiport in two hours. So good luck to all. If you are running Barcelona - hope to see you there. Not sure about internet access from here for a while.

ronanmac

Best of luck in Barcelona, pgmcpq. You won't know yourself with the bit of warmth in the air!

Krusty_Clown

Best of luck pgmcpq. I'm hoping for good news on Sunday. Have a great run, and a nice holiday to boot!

Killerz

All the best in Barca. I think the tough miles in challenging conditions you've been putting in will pay dividends. Will you be catching the mighty Gunners on your trip?

pgmcpq

Killerz wrote: »

All the best in Barca. I think the tough miles in challenging conditions you've been putting in will pay dividends. Will you be catching the mighty Gunners on your trip?

You mean those league cup runners up !!:D. If we come across tickets. But I am not sure how likely that is.

Brianderunner

pgmcpq wrote: »

You mean those league cup runners up !!:D. If we come across tickets. But I am not sure how likely that is.

I got offered 2 for 800 euro yesterday. Bargain!

Good luck tomorrow mate, should see you after or before. Luminous green tshirt, #5218 with Brian on the number.

pgmcpq

Saturday . 2.5 miles Pace 10.00+

Did the breakfast run. A nice run - but a pretty decent climb for a warm up.

Meet meno, RK, rachaeldev, and macnari ( only when you spoke the name did I 'get it'). Nice to put some names to faces. Spent the rest of the day on a bus tour. It might be a little warm but close to ideal conditions.
Feeling ok - but not as fresh as I would have hoped....might just be in my head. Did have a bit of a scare as I picked up a splinter in my foot but it is not bothering me.
So all in all good to go. Good luck to all.

pgmcpq

Going into this race I was unsure exactly what to expect. Training had been high on volume (80+ mpw) but low on quality (little speed or tempo work). As my problem has been endurance I was not sure if this was a problem ... but it was not the way I had planned it.

I knew 3.10 was unlikely unless things really went well but I was really hoping to get close, to break 3.15. Not breaking 3.20 would have been a serious disappointment.

Exciting prolog: The night before the race we had a close call with a gang of female pickpockets on the metro. They clearly spotted us as foreign and tried three of the four of us in turn having first carefully split us apart on the metro. Luckily my brother figured out what was happening so they escaped only with my metro tickets so we could look at it and laugh.

The race itself : In summary a great race - very well organized, little congestion on mainly wide streets ( more on this later), nice advance warning of aid stations - fruit at the later aid stations was a nice touch, water in bottles, powerade in cups. Really a very nice run and lots of sights for the times when you need to focus on something external. Another race I definately want to do again.

My race: Well I was very happy with things through the first 13 miles. Weather really was ideal. Very little crowding at the start except for one group running slowly three abrest. I forced my way through them a bit more forcefully than I had intended and left a stream of probably pretty rude Spanish in my wake. But this was the only exception to a very smooth start. Brought a small water bottle in hand which allowed me avoid the crowding at the first two aid stations. The first six miles have a few long drags but nothing that posed a serious problem and the declines allowed me take a little breather.
Took my first gel at 6 miles.

Mile Pace(7.15 target) Up/Down (secs)
1 7.35 -20
2 7.29 -34
3 7.20 -39
4 7.10 -34
5 7.16 -35
6 7.17 -37

Second gel at 12 miles. Passed through half way in 1.36. I knew 3.10 was unlikely but was feeling good. At this point I as thinking a comfortable sub 3.15 was in the bag.

7 6.59 -21
8 7.10 -16
9 7.18 -19
10 7.13 -17
11 6.59 +2
12 7.19 -2
13 7.11 +2

At mile 14 I encountered my first problem. Suddenly ahead of me a set of ballons became visible. I was suprised - could not be 3.00 - no way was I that fast. So I decided they must be 3.10. When I caught then they were the 3.15 pacers who I had not seen at all at the start. Now I had a problem. I wanted to pass the 3.15 group who were now moving at about 7.30 pace but it was proving a problem to get around them. Any progress I made was wiped out as we approached Placa de les Glories where the crowds started to infringe on the road cutting the space down slowing me down to a 8.00 pace for a while. After the turn around I broke through leading to ....

14 6.49 +28

Possibly I paid for this later

15 7.15 +28
16 7.17 +26
17 7.13 +28

Starting to feel the strain a bit here along the coast. More than anything else the focus wandered a little.

18 7.22 +21

Regroup - take a gel ... and all is well.

19 7.10 +26
20 7.18 +23
21 7.17 +21

Each turn away from the sea involved a slope - nothing major but each one draining. The paving stones and cobble stones of the Arc de Triomf were ... unwelcome ! Now I am starting to suffer.

22 7.30 +6
23 7.40 -11

Stablish things a bit ....
24 7.35 -31

But the slide continues .... aggh... the damn 3.15 pce group caught me again, and now I am hanging on.
25 7.47 -63

Fatal error. I stopped to try to fight off a growing cramp - should really have run through it at ths point. Funnily enough I though I still had a sub 3.15 in hand here but did not allow for a less than perfect race line. Legs were gone.

26 9.01
26+ 8.20

So 3.15.52. A 7.53 PB so while I am a little frustrated with another late fade it is a satisfactory race. If I can solve the endurance riddle I think the basis is there to reduce this PB. So all in all a decent next step.

Mrs P had a tough day but recovered and gutted out a finish. The temperature did start to climb quickly close to noon. She met up with Orla from Dublin and a woman from Birmingham (nice to meet you both) and they ran as a group to the end.

Postmortim: Need to thing more about this but possible mistakes :
1. Bad positioning in the coral ? Getting trapped behind the 3.15 group was mistake - though I am bewildered as to where they were at the start. Maybe should have been further up in the coral ?

2. Did not take my final gel at mile 18 because I did not have have water. Again not sure but this might have helped. However I was beginning to need a bathroom at this stage so was nervous about taking more water on board.

Afterwards met up with boardsies at the George Payne. Meno (who is starting a specilise in PBs the hard way - super week of running there), RK, RQ, Brianderunner - you´re not that far off the sub-3 for Berlin, sarsfieldrock, oisin, and the sub-3 club liamo and theboyblunder. Great to finally put faces to names to boards userids. Electric gathering .... possibly accounting for the power failure in the bar !
Actually met someone else looking the RW forum group who joined us for dinner later on.

pgmcpq

Brianderunner wrote: »

I got offered 2 for 800 euro yesterday. Bargain!

Good luck tomorrow mate, should see you after or before. Luminous green tshirt, #5218 with Brian on the number.

Yeah ... sadly that´s about what I expect. Nice to meet you last night.

Killerz

Fair play p - nice race overall. That's some pb aswell.

ronanmac

Well done, pgmcpq. Great race report (I love the mile by mile split update!). Great improvement on the PB.
How did you find the training overall? Would I be right in saying you followed the Pfitzinger programme? I'm looking to do another marathon next spring, and I don't know if I'll stick with the Furman programme, or up the mileage and go with something like the Advanced Marathon one. Would be interested in your opinion of the experience.

Krusty_Clown

Congrats on a great race and pb to boot! And it sounds like you could tweak a few more small things and gain a few more easy minutes. Thanks for the report. Great reading. The pacers were crap last year as well. 5 of them running abreast, forming a barrier to stop people getting through. Solid 3:15 pacers are worth their weight in gold.

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Congrats on a great race and pb to boot! And it sounds like you could tweak a few more small things and gain a few more easy minutes. Thanks for the report. Great reading. The pacers were crap last year as well. 5 of them running abreast, forming a barrier to stop people getting through. Solid 3:15 pacers are worth their weight in gold.

Thanks. Not sure I see any 'easy minutes' !! Suggestion are very welcome. Yes the pacing groups seem to have been a bit dodgey. It puts put the DCM pacing in perspective. Just wish I been able to stick with you.:(. Next time.
PB is nice - but still looking to fix the "fade" and up the game now for the next time.

pgmcpq

ronanmac wrote: »

Well done, pgmcpq. Great race report (I love the mile by mile split update!). Great improvement on the PB.
How did you find the training overall? Would I be right in saying you followed the Pfitzinger programme? I'm looking to do another marathon next spring, and I don't know if I'll stick with the Furman programme, or up the mileage and go with something like the Advanced Marathon one. Would be interested in your opinion of the experience.

Yes this was loosely based on P&D 70-85. Conditions heremade quality training a problem so I went for mileage. It would be no problem for you coming off Furman. You would find the individual sessions very easy. The milage looks a bit intimidating if time is short - especialy the midweek 15 miler. It has worked well for me over two cycles. Now I am looking to move to the next level. Being maxed out on mileage I am going to look at Daniels for the next one ( NY in Nov - time to try a local race) asI still need to improve endurance. Given how you did on Furman I'd be very interested to see how you'd do with more runningbased program.

pgmcpq

Wednesday: 4 miles, recovery

Re ran the breakfast run up Montjuc at a glacial pace. Legs started to feel better today.

Thursday: 4 miles, recovery.

Ran up to the Olympic stadium in the opposite direction with Mrs P. After two days of serious DOMS felt much better.

Traveling to Ireland so next run will be Saturday in the Bray/greystones area.

Krusty_Clown

pgmcpq wrote: »

Thanks. Not sure I see any 'easy minutes' !! Suggestion are very welcome.

• Good positioning in the coral (ahead of the 3:15 pacers obstruction).
• Predator sessions for your long runs, where you start slow and build to a crescendo, finishing at half-marathon pace (to prevent the onslaught of slowing down at the end of the race and build some mental toughness).
• Gel strategy - you missed one at mile 18, due to lack of water. Experiment with Isotonic gels? Try a caffeinated gel at mile 18 to give you that extra kick?
• Learn to pee on the run.

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

• Good positioning in the coral (ahead of the 3:15 pacers obstruction).
• Predator sessions for your long runs, where you start slow and build to a crescendo, finishing at half-marathon pace (to prevent the onslaught of slowing down at the end of the race and build some mental toughness).
• Gel strategy - you missed one at mile 18, due to lack of water. Experiment with Isotonic gels? Try a caffeinated gel at mile 18 to give you that extra kick?
• Learn to pee on the run.

Well having read other reports I am giving myself a pass on coral positioning. I assumed that the 3.15 pace group were 'correct' and if so then I must have started too far back. Now it seems the 3.15 group started in the sub3 coral and took off like the sub3 group before flatlining.

That predator run sounds interesting/scary. I will give that a try before the next marathon cycle. Sounds like something I would have to build to. It's almost a tempo session at the end of a long run.

Yes, the gel thing was an issue. I think I underestimated how warm if got and probably got a bit dehydrated. Reading back I did take a gel at 18 but skipped my planned one at 22/23 in favor of sports beans. Beans are nice but seem ineffective.

Pee on the run? Maybe for a guaranteed sub3 ! I considered stopping but I'm always concerned that I might not be able to hit a rhythm again.

I think my next marathon attempt will involve uping training intensity. I've pretty much peaked on mileage in that I cannot see myself doing much more and remaining healthy.

I liked the 12 week program - the 18 week program is too long a lead in.

pgmcpq

Travelling to Ireland Friday.

Saturday: 5 miles, easy
Sunday: 7 miles, easy

Travelling Monday.

Next up is the NY HM on Sunday. Always a bit of a stretch after Barcelona and a week of holiday. I am up 5lbs since Barca ! More of an issue I have picked up a head cold - sit on an aeroplane long enough and it will happen.

Planned to run with the club last night: Walked from the office to pick up the car (1+ mile) from my parking space where I had left it before Barca. Well .... car has been hit side on hit and is badly damaged - passanger door not longer closes flush. Off to the police station (0.3 miles) where I was told there was an accident. Walk back to the apartment (0.3 miles) collect my running stuff and off to take public transport back home (0.3 miles) and then walk home (0.75 mile). Back to police station to collect accident report, over to car (0.3 miles), take photos of damage. Car will not start - key will not turn in the ignition, steering wheel is jammed. Walk back to office (1+ mile). Second time this car has been hit in a parking lot - it must have a "Kick me" I have have not spotted yet.
3.95 miles walking, no car, no parking !

Hate to say it but the prospect of a respectable showing on Sunday appears remote. Ryan night get a free shot !

ronanmac

pgmcpq wrote: »

Planned to run with the club last night: Walked from the office to pick up the car (1+ mile) from my parking space where I had left it before Barca. Well .... car has been hit side on hit and is badly damaged - passanger door not longer closes flush.

That is a pisser!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

pgmcpq

Wednesday: 40 mins bike
Thursday: 5 miles w/8*100, Pace 7.21

Uggh ... that was a struggle. Well with traveling and car woes this was the first run in three days. Great morning but I felt awful ! I think it is the cold which seems to have knocked the stuffing out of me. Feeling a bit better today (temperature seems normal again) but the legs seem to have nothing to give. Did not wear a HRM - I suspect the readings would have been alarming. The 8 strides left me close to spent. I think the HM on Sunday is likely to be pretty ugly. I am reluctant to pull the plug on a 'big' race but I am hoping for a miracle turnaround. Still if I could shake this cold .... maybe.

On better news we ( well actually Mrs P) did get the car started last night so I am much more optimistic that the car will make it.:) However getting the car in for an initial diagnosis will mean no running Friday. So going to go out with the club tonight to see if I can shake the legs out a little more - at least get some sense of where they are.

Once the HM is out of the way there are a set of 10k coming up. So the next plan is to take a shot at sub 40 10k - or at least a new PB.