Was Rachel Corrie Murdered

Brown Bomber

It has recently been announced that the family of Rachel Corrie will sue the state of Israel for intentional murder of their daughter.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=37464

Rachel Corrie was an American peace-activist who was killed by an Israeli bulldozer in 2003 while acting as a human-shield to protest the bulldozing of Palestinian homes in occupied Rafah. They wanted the Palestinians removed to build the wall in Rafah.


Above: The area around the Rafah Wall is now a wasteland, with houses either demolished, or heavily damaged by Occupation forces. http://stopthewall.org/photos/511.shtml




Rachel Corrie, 'clearly visible' before being run over - twice

Isreal has denied the intentional murder, but then they don't admit to much do they? Nukes, assasinations, war-crimes, 911 etc.

Here is what eye-witnesses had to say: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1263.shtml

TOM DALE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

British Citizen from Lichfield, Birmingham, born 17 August 1984.

2 hours when 1 of them turned toward a house we knew to be threatened with demolition. Rachel knelt down in its way. She was 10-20 metres in front of the bulldozer, clearly visible, the only object for many metres, directly in its view. They were in radio contact with a tank that had a profile view of the situation. There is no way she could not have been seen by them in their elevated cabin. They knew where she was, there is no doubt.

The bulldozer drove toward Rachel slowly, gathering earth in its scoop as it went. She knelt there, she did not move. The bulldozer reached her and she began to stand up, climbing onto the mound of earth. She appeared to be looking into the cockpit. The bulldozer continued to push Rachel, so she slipped down the mound of earth, turning as she went. Her faced showed she was panicking and it was clear she was in danger of being overwhelmed.

All the activists were screaming at the bulldozer to stop and gesturing to the crew about Rachel's presence. We were in clear view as Rachel had been, they continued. They pushed Rachel, first beneath the scoop, then beneath the blade, then continued till her body was beneath the cockpit. They waited over her for a few seconds, before reversing. They reversed with the blade pressed down, so it scraped over her body a second time. Every second I believed they would stop but they never did.

GREG SCHNABEL EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

United States citizen from Chicago, IL, USA, born 26 April 1974.

Rachel was standing in front of this home. As the bulldozer approached she stood her ground. Rachel was wearing an orange fluorescent jacket. She was clearly visible to the bulldozer driver as well as to the soldiers in the tank. The bulldozer began to push up the ground from beneath her feet.

The pile of earth was mounding up and she tried her best to stay on top of it. As the ground continued to move Rachel went down on her knees. The bulldozer continued to move forward. Rachel began to become buried beneath the dirt. Still it did not stop. Finally, Rachel was beneath the bulldozer. The bulldozer did not even pick up its blade. It ran over her completely and continued to advance. It stopped when she was completely underneath the body of the bulldozer. It then moved backwards over her body. It moved clear of her and backed away.

RICHARD PURSSELL EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

British citizen from Brighton, England. A Construction Worker born on 12 October 1971.

The ground was level and the light was good, I had a good view of everything which happened. Rachel was wearing an orange fluorescent jacket with reflective strips (the type worn by construction workers for high visibility and the avoidance of accidents). Rachel stood to confront the bulldozer and it approached her at about five or six miles an hour. The blade on the bulldozer was dipped into the ground and was scooping up soil.

As the bulldozer came nearer the pile mounted up. Rachel climbed up the pile and at the one stage was looking into the cabin window. There is no way that the driver could not have known she was there. The bulldozer continued driving forwards and Rachel turned round to face in my direction.

She began to slide down the pile, however as soon as her feet touched the ground for some reason she fell forward. Maybe her foot was caught or the weight of the soil pushed her forward. At this point the panic on her face was obvious.

We were all shouting, screaming and gesturing by this stage. The earth was totally pushed over her, engulfing her. She was lost to my sight. I noticed that the driver had not lifted the blade. The machine rolled straight over her and continued for a little way. It then reversed over her and retreated about twenty metres. Rachel was left in its tracks, bleeding from her mouth and twisted.

JOE SMITH EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

United States citizen from Kansas City, MO, USA, born 25 April 1981.

do believe it was intentional. I saw it, and I know he saw her, I know he did, and I know he knew she was still under the bulldozer when it backed up without raising its blade. I don't know if he wanted to kill her, or if he was just focused on doing his work and didn't care if he killed her or not, I don't know which is scarier. I don't feel like telling the whole detailed story right now. I promise that for the record I will tell it in detail, but give me a few days. I just want to quickly dispel a few myths you may have heard in the media. She did not "trip and fall" in front of the bulldozer. She sat down in front of it, well in advance, wearing one of the orange flouro jackets I got in Amsterdam. (By the way, I took the pictures you may have seen of her, standing with the megaphone in front of the bulldozer, and the ones of her friends helping her.)

He clearly saw her, and continued to drive until she was forced onto the top of the dirt he was pushing, elevating her so much that she was at eye level with the bulldozer's cab, he could see right into her eyes. He continued forward, pulling her underneath the dirt, and out of his vision. He continued forward, crushing her underneath the weight of the blade. He continued forward, until she was well underneath the bulldozer. It was then quite clear that she was nowhere but underneath him, but he proceded to back up, without lifting the blade, crushing her again.

I believe that it was the combination of these two crushings together that caused her death. She was defending the house of a physician. We've all stayed in the house, we know that there are no weapons of any kind there. Just a middle aged doctor and his lovely family. They want to demolish it because it happens to lie near the border, and they're systematically demolishing all the houses near the border. It has nothing to do with retaliatory or preventative operations. They were not searching for tunnels or bombs either. We know what this looks like, they do it a lot. It involves armored drills and bomb dogs and shooting at the ground, none of which was present here.

This is a speech she gave in the 5th grade, unfortunately she wasn't to live many more years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK8Z3i3aTq4&feature=player_embedded

So do people think she may have been intentional murder? or is there any argument against?

Brown Bomber

If anyone is interested there are lots of good links here: http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/people/8.shtml

.SONIC.

from the sounds of it, its a definite conspiracy!!!

how could the bulldozer NOT see her???

robtri

while i support Rachel and others like her....

i dont see the conspiracy.....
they purposely ran her off and killed her.... where's the CT???

Brown Bomber

I see where your coming from but the IDF issued an (unpublished) report blaming her death it on falling debris. Noone even knows the drivers name. Worse still it was an American built and American paid for Caterpillar D9 that killed the American.

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Worse still it was an American built and American paid for Caterpillar D9 that killed the American.

American paid for? How so?

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I see where your coming from but the IDF issued an (unpublished) report blaming her death it on falling debris. Noone even knows the drivers name. Worse still it was an American built and American paid for Caterpillar D9 that killed the American.

and still whats the CT????

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So do people think she may have been intentional murder? or is there any argument against?

The very definition of murder means it's intentional. It varies from place to place as to whether or not it needs to be premeditated or not.

So the question is was it premeditated.

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

American paid for? How so?

On the question of if a killing was intentional this is what you ask?!

I'm not going to waste my time answering any more pointless questions.

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

and still whats the CT????

Conspiracy to commit murder

Conspiracy to cover up murder

And more broadly Israel's ability to act with impunity even when they kill a citizen of their major sponsor.

i can't be more clear than that

kryogen

robtri wrote: »

and still whats the CT????

i guess the conspiracy being put forward is that it was a cold blooded murder and it has been covered up so to speak because the repoort has not put the death down to foul play

i assume it was ruled accidental?

whereas it seems it was anything but



not much surprises me when it comes to the Israeli government and army

This is a horrible thing to have happened and I guarantee you if it had happened in Iran and not Israelo we would be seeing an American-Iran war

but since its Israel its ok

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

On the question of if a killing was intentional this is what you ask?!

I'm not going to waste my time answering any more pointless questions.

Why bother to post the story if you won't answer questions.

I asked was it premediated. Since that would decide if it was Murder or not in some jurisdictions.

Before that, I asked how is it that the Bulldozer was paid for by the Americians.

Valid questions both.
This isn't about conspiracy, this is campagaining for Palestine. Why post it here? I think most here know about it already.

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

Why bother to post the story if you won't answer questions.

I never said I wouldn't answer any questions. What I said was that I am not going to address pointless questions. The topic is quite clear

studiorat wrote: »

I asked was it premediated. Since that would decide if it was Murder or not in some jurisdictions.

I apologise here then. You didn't make the question clear. I took it as an petit pedantacism on your part tbh.

studiorat wrote: »

Before that, I asked how is it that the Bulldozer was paid for by the Americians.

I tried to make it clear that I have no intention in getting involved in side-show quarrels
.

studiorat wrote: »

This isn't about conspiracy,

Guess we can close the thread right now then, studiorat says there is no conspiracy in a death ruled by the authorities (investigating themselves) as accidental when four eye-witness state it was intentional. Please explain how it is not "about conspiracy".

studiorat wrote: »

]this is campagaining for Palestine.

By pointing out the reality of a situation?? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

studiorat wrote: »

]Why post it here?

Which? The CT in a CT forum? hmmmmmm....

studiorat wrote: »

I think most here know about it already.

Have the balls to spit it out then. I really wish someone would let me know.

Who made you moderator anyway? It is not your place to question mine or anyone else's motivations on this forum.

PirateShampoo

I think your motives are perfectly clear when it come to anything about Israel.

Brown Bomber

ffs this isn't the nice things people/groups/states do forum is it?

A conspiracy involves illegal or otherwise sinister activity by the perpertrators and it just so happens that Israel is involved in a lot of illegal activities. Therefore you assume to know my position on their criminal acts, nothing more.

Why pretend you do?

Typical self-appointed debunker bull****. There are no holes in this conspiracy therefore you must A) claim there is no conspiracy because you can't debunk it and b)attack me for highlighting the slaughter of a peace activist.

Edit: This thread is not about Israel, Palestine, or me.
EDIT 2: Upon reading I realised I came across stronger than I intended to, so don't take it personally.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

ffs this isn't the nice things people/groups/states do forum is it?

A conspiracy involves illegal or otherwise sinister activity by the perpertrators and it just so happens that Israel is involved in a lot of illegal activities. Therefore you assume to know my position on their criminal acts, nothing more.

Why pretend you do?

Typical self-appointed debunker bull****. There are no holes in this conspiracy therefore you must A) claim there is no conspiracy because you can't debunk it and b)attack me for highlighting the slaughter of a peace activist.

Edit: This thread is not about Israel, Palestine, or me.

seriosuly dude...
there is no conspiracy here...
go to the politics thread to discuss....

Israel kill thousands a year and claim it was self defence and not intended to hurt any civillians.... not saying it right but its not a conspiracy.....

uprising2

Can people not see the conspiracy?
Here's a link to the definition "Conspiracy"...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conspiracy

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot
2. the act of making such plans in secret

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Now can you see the conspiracy?, now can you stop asking BS questions and stick to the conspiracy?

The conspiracy involves the caterpillar driver, his employers, the israeli govt and the US govt, as was said before if it were any "axis of evil" state that did this the US war machine would be rolling.
But it was israel that murdered Rachel so thats ok.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/16/on_trip_to_gaza_parents_of

Caterpillar are just as guilty as the israeli's.

robtri

uprising2 wrote: »

Can people not see the conspiracy?
Here's a link to the definition "Conspiracy"...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conspiracy

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot
2. the act of making such plans in secret

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Now can you see the conspiracy?, now can you stop asking BS questions and stick to the conspiracy?

The conspiracy involves the caterpillar driver, his employers, the israeli govt and the US govt, as was said before if it were any "axis of evil" state that did this the US war machine would be rolling.
But it was israel that murdered Rachel so thats ok.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/16/on_trip_to_gaza_parents_of

Caterpillar are just as guilty as the israeli's.

so by that definition every act of illegality is a conspiracy.........

so if the driver didnt break any isreali law then its not a conspiracy by that definiton


also thats a definition for conspiracy.....

this is a conspiracy THEORY forum

definition is from wiki:Conspiracy theory is a term that originally was a neutral descriptor for any claim. However, it has come almost exclusively to refer to any fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

But it was israel that murdered Rachel so thats ok.

I thought it was a construction worker in a earth mover that did it.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I thought it was a construction worker in a earth mover that did it.

LOL. Yeah and I though it was 19 hijackers who did 911 but they're still killing civilian in Afghanistan nearly 10 years later.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

LOL. Yeah and I though it was 19 hijackers who did 911 but they're still killing civilian in Afghanistan nearly 10 years later.

and it was 19 hijackers

whats the point...

uprising2

robtri wrote: »

so by that definition every act of illegality is a conspiracy.........

so if the driver didnt break any isreali law then its not a conspiracy by that definiton


also thats a definition for conspiracy.....

this is a conspiracy THEORY forum

definition is from wiki:Conspiracy theory is a term that originally was a neutral descriptor for any claim. However, it has come almost exclusively to refer to any fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning

Not all conspiracies are theory, your looking for theory, there is none it's conspiracy fact, you seem to have a problem with the fact there is no theory, if anybody comes on this forum with a conspiracy theory you all demand the evidence, brown bomber gave the evidence in the OP so the tune changes from looking for evidence to whats the theory, forget theory, it's a conspiracy.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I thought it was a construction worker in a earth mover that did it.

What's the point in this bullsh1t?, really cop on, a young girl was murdered, if it were your sister, gf, mother would you feel the need to add childish/ignorant/stupid comments?

robtri wrote: »

and it was 19 hijackers

whats the point...

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

PirateShampoo

im gonna call this thread exactly how i see it.

I dont for 1 second think either 1 of you really care about this women.

You are just usung her death as a excuse to do more Israel bashing, you have both made your feeling clear in the many other threads that have been spring up here a lot lately.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I thought it was a construction worker in a earth mover that did it.

And how did you come to the conclusion he was a construction worker?, what was he constructing?.

Construction 1

Definition: The process or art of constructing; the act of building; erection; the act of devising and forming; fabrication; composition.

He was a destruction worker, his job is to destroy, his employers are the israeli govt, the govt gave him his job to do that day, so next time try get your facts in order before trying to be a smart ass.

If this had happened in Iraq in 2002 what do you think would have happened?. Actually don't even answer that.

PirateShampoo

Well considering this happened in 2003, has it really taken you 7 years to get enraged by this?

Constrution/demolition worker, its the same thing. By your logic if a public sector worker robbed a bank then really it was the goverment that robbed the bank.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

im gonna call this thread exactly how i see it.

I dont for 1 second either 1 of you really care about this women.

You are just usung her death as a excuse to do more Israel bashing, you have both made your feeling clear in the many other threads that have been spring up here a lot lately.

Israel bashing?, it's fukking human rights abuses thats the problem. Try understand that, if it were Palestinians doing it I'd be saying the exact same thing, BUT IT'S NOT!.

I care as much about that woman as I do about each and every innocent person murdered, I don't really give a fukk what you think I think.

Here's an interview with Rachel 2 days before her murder, Israel don't like people spreading word of their continuous slaughter of innocence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JI-axaRF4

Here's a 5th grade dream she had:

God bless her.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Well considering this happened in 2003, has it really taken you 7 years to get enraged by this?

Constrution/demolition worker, its the same thing. By your logic if a public sector worker robbed a bank then really it was the goverment that robbed the bank.

If the fukking govt told him to rob the bank and the govt were going to gain from it, then yes really it was the govt. Think before you post.
And please stop with this "by your logic bullsh1t",

EDIT: No it didn't take me 7 years to be outraged, I was outraged 7 years ago when I heard of it, same way as I've been enraged by numerous other cowardly acts since and before.

PirateShampoo

Do you really have to swear so much in ur posts?

And like i said, this happened 7 years ago, so why has it taken you so long to get worked up about it?

Darlughda

Gosh you are angry Uprising.

Israel is up to no good esp with Palestine etc inmo nonetheless, venting your rage like this still does not expose any conspiracy.

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

If the fukking govt told him to rob the bank and the govt were going to gain from it, then yes really it was the govt. Think before you post.
And please stop with this "by your logic bullsh1t",

It is your logic.

You say that the Driver was employed by the Israel Goverment so there for the Israel goverment murdered her.

So with that logic you could say if anybody in the employment of a goverment shouldnt be held responsable for there actions has its the goverments fault.

uprising2

Darlughda wrote: »

Gosh you are angry Uprising.

Israel is up to no good esp with Palestine etc inmo nonetheless, venting your rage like this still does not expose any conspiracy.

Read post 17, they murdered the girl, nobody was punished, they continue to kill innocent people day by day.
The cover-up is the conspiracy, the inquest finding it an accident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoZGnvZwNY

Mjollnir

Note to self: don't stand in front of bulldozers operated by foreign armed forces.

Darlughda

I hear ya Uprising

But look it in that last you tube video you posted

there was ..."And the American-Zionist media never said a word"

okay, I reckon that just like what happened in Northern Ireland years ago we have biaised media, well strike that, we have biaised media all the time, nonetheless tell me more about this American-Zionist media because any references I have ever come across using the terms have been anti-semitic in the extreme. Please prove me wrong.

uprising2

Darlughda wrote: »

I hear ya Uprising

But look it in that last you tube video you posted

there was ..."And the American-Zionist media never said a word"

okay, I reckon that just like what happened in Northern Ireland years ago we have biaised media, well strike that, we have biaised media all the time, nonetheless tell me more about this American-Zionist media because any references I have ever come across using the terms have been anti-semitic in the extreme. Please prove me wrong.

The jews arent semites, the Palestians are semites, there is no anti-semitic content in any of my posts.

Wiki
In a religious context, the term 'Semitic' can refer to the religions associated with the speakers of these languages: thus Judaism, Christianity and Islam are often described as "Semitic religions" (irrespective of language family spoken by their adherents).

Darlughda

Okay whatever for the sake of argument lets just put anti-jewish where I said anti-semitic and lets take it from there.

Just editing my own post here because I want to get to the bottom of what I reckon is some nasty racism. Maybe I am wrong - I don't like the idea of no one being able to criticise judaism or their adherents because of the holocaust, and I def think Israel is a big baddie in terms of **** going down worldwide, nonetheless, I am alarmed at this streak of anti-jewishness that pervades around here, never come across it before in my own lifetime- but when I repeatedly come across terms in CT websites and on here that allude to a Zionist conspiracy I have to ask wtf?

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

It is your logic.

You say that the Driver was employed by the Israel Goverment so there for the Israel goverment murdered her.

So with that logic you could say if anybody in the employment of a goverment shouldnt be held responsable for there actions has its the goverments fault.

What nonsense. Her parents are sueing THE STATE OF ISRAEL, why do you think they are doing that? The same state that have an admitted policy of extra-judicial killings. The driver was an IDF solider, the same IDF who killed 1400 in Castlead, committing warcrimes. Same story there though, ONE solider, thats ONE solider was prosecuted for stealing a creditcard!

As for why the thread now and not 7 years ago. If you'd bothered to read the OP you'd see that the issue has been made current by the fact that her parents announced they were going to sue the State of Israel.

As for this anti-Israeli nonsense...To stand by that claim you'd have to accuse B'tselem, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Oxfam etc of being anti-Israeli. Do you?

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

The jews arent semites, the Palestians are semites, there is no anti-semitic content in any of my posts.

Wiki
In a religious context, the term 'Semitic' can refer to the religions associated with the speakers of these languages: thus Judaism[/URL], Christianity and Islam are often described as "Semitic religions" (irrespective of language family spoken by their adherents).

Did you just prove your self wrong in your own post?

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Did you just prove your self wrong in your own post?

No I didn't prove myself wrong, you know nothing, semite is a race that the so called jews do not belong to, Jews are a bloodline from the tribe of Judah, jews are turk/mongol Khazars who adopted Judaism, if I adopt a religion tomorrow do I also change my race?.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Did you just prove your self wrong in your own post?

Forget all this nonsense. Nobody has been anti-anything except for anti-criminal.

Do you believe she was murdered? And there was a subsequent cover up?

Bare in mind:

How clearly visible she was in the photo.

The fact that the driver didn't just drive over her with the blade, he reversed with the blade still down.

The eye-witness reports

The fact the IDF refused to take statements from these eye-witnesses

The fact they are now refused entry to Israel.

The fact that the IDF "accident" report was never made public. A conclusion only was sent to the US.

The fact that the Corries who seen the report claim there were a host of inconsistencies.

The fact that Israel lied on the record claiming that they were not bulldozing houses. Human Right Groups who were on the ground proved that they were, even with people still inside.

If you accept that murder is the most likely outcome then the coverup and thus the conspiracy is inseperable.

uprising2

Darlughda wrote: »

Okay whatever for the sake of argument lets just put anti-jewish where I said anti-semitic and lets take it from there.

Just editing my own post here because I want to get to the bottom of what I reckon is some nasty racism. Maybe I am wrong - I don't like the idea of no one being able to criticise judaism or their adherents because of the holocaust, and I def think Israel is a big baddie in terms of **** going down worldwide, nonetheless, I am alarmed at this streak of anti-jewishness that pervades around here, never come across it before in my own lifetime- but when I repeatedly come across terms in CT websites and on here that allude to a Zionist conspiracy I have to ask wtf?

I'm anti oppression, thats about it really, I wouldn't get too bogged down, maybe if israel weren't such evil bastards we would be heaping praise on them, but will you open your eyes and see why there is resistance to what they do, and how they do it.
It isn't a game, it's human reaction of disgust that you see, if there wasn't a reason it wouldn't exist, simple as that really.

Darlughda

uprising2 wrote: »

I'm anti oppression, thats about it really, I wouldn't get too bogged down, maybe if israel weren't such evil bastards we would be heaping praise on them, but will you open your eyes and see why there is resistance to what they do, and how they do it.
It isn't a game, it's human reaction of disgust that you see, if there wasn't a reason it wouldn't exist, simple as that really.

I'm not to keen on oppression myself, Uprising, and fair enough I really don't know enough about international politics and Israel, but as I have already stated they (Israel) are probably responsible for this (Rachel Corrie's killing) and so many other atrocities with the Palestinians.

However, my question is what is it with this zionist conspiracy?

As I mentioned before in another thread, I have Israeli friends, (all female unfortunately for me so no hot blokes), through them I learnt a bit of hebrew- and have an idea and awareness of how the jewish tradition is inextricably linked with the idea of the homeland in Israel.

So I do want clarification regarding the anti-jewish sentiment, please?

Brown Bomber

Darlughda wrote: »

nonetheless tell me more about this American-Zionist media because any references I have ever come across using the terms have been anti-semitic in the extreme. Please prove me wrong.

Here is an recent article by Robert Jensen a Professor of Journalism at The University of Texas. http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/robert-jensen-mainstream-media-and.html

If you think that is anti-semitic then there really is no hope.

Brown Bomber

Darlughda wrote: »

However, my question is what is it with this zionist conspiracy?

...

So I do want clarification regarding the anti-jewish sentiment, please?

I really, really didn't want to get into ideologies. Zionism is not Judaism. Some of the biggest Zionists in the US are the Christian Right whilst some of the leading anti-zionists are religious Jews.

Anna Baltzer

Like many Americans and many Jews, I grew up with a positive view of Israel as a peace-seeking democracy. Israel symbolized to me the one protection that Jews had against the type of persecution that had plagued families like mine throughout history. I saw the Jewish state as a tiny and victimized country that simply wanted to live in peace but couldn’t because of its aggressive, Jew-hating Arab neighbors.

In 2003, during a backpacking trip through the Middle East, I began to meet Palestinian refugees from 1948. I didn’t know who the Palestinians were, or where Palestine was, and through my new acquaintances I began to hear a narrative about the history and present of Israel/Palestine that was entirely different from the one I had learned growing up in the United States.

My first reaction was disbelief, and anger. Families told me stories of past and present military attacks, house demolitions, land confiscation, imprisonment without trial, and torture. It seemed that these actions were not carried out for the protection of Jewish people, but rather for the creation and expansion of a Jewish state at the expense of the rights, lives, and dignity of the non-Jewish people living in the region. It was hard for me to believe that Israel could act so unjustly.

Not believing what I heard, I decided to do some research to prove myself right. Immediately, I was shocked to find how much I didn’t know about the situation on the ground. Not knowing who or what to believe anymore, I decided to go to see the situation with my own eyes. Since I returned, I’ve dedicated my life to informing fellow Americans and others about what I found, and what they can do to support a just peace for all peoples in Israel/Palestine. http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/

Norman Finkelstein: http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
Israel Shahak (concentration camp survivor): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak
Gilad Atzmon: http://www.gilad.co.uk/

Neturei Karta:

http://www.nkusa.org/

FWIW I am neither anti-zionist nor anti-semitic. However, I am opposed to the supremacism that goes along with zionism. I don't question the holocaust I recognise Israels right to exist, the Jewish religion and people as much as any other religion and people.

I've read through my posts again on this thread and all I can see anything other than anti-murderer, could you point out something you found offensive?

Darlughda

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Some of the biggest Zionists in the US are the Christian Right whilst some of the leading anti-zionists are religious Jews.

Fcuken jayzus this news to me. BB, I gotta get some sleep. I appreciate you saying you didn't want to get into this but I reckon its important. I need time to digest. Talk soon.

<<<Sleepy lady bows out for the night:)

Brown Bomber

Goodnight then. I would too if it weren't for all this burning hate inside me :D

uprising2

Darlughda wrote: »

I'm not to keen on oppression myself, Uprising, and fair enough I really don't know enough about international politics and Israel, but as I have already stated they (Israel) are probably responsible for this (Rachel Corrie's killing) and so many other atrocities with the Palestinians.

However, my question is what is it with this zionist conspiracy?

As I mentioned before in another thread, I have Israeli friends, (all female unfortunately for me so no hot blokes), through them I learnt a bit of hebrew- and have an idea and awareness of how the jewish tradition is inextricably linked with the idea of the homeland in Israel.

So I do want clarification regarding the anti-jewish sentiment, please?

http://www.nkusa.org/



http://december18th.org/

Jews against Zionism
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNi0aSOb3RE

Breaking The Silence (IDF Speak out)
http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

I am not anti Israeli, there are plenty of good decent Israeli's, its the Israeli govt murder of a people that I have a problem with.

Brown Bomber

It described how an army reservist Moshe Nissim - a frustrated, drunken, fanatic football fan and a habitual troublemaker - was told to drive a 60 ton armoured demolition bulldozer, with only two hours' training, straight into the congested Jenin refugee camp, where more than half of its residents were under 18 years of age.

The moment I drove the bulldozer into the camp, something switched in my head. I went mad. All the desperation, caused by my personal condition, just vanished at once. All that remained was the anger over what had happened to our guys. Till now I am convinced, and so are the rest of us, that if we were let into the camp earlier with all our might, twenty four soldiers would not have been killed in this camp.

You erase buildings on both sides. There is no other choice, because the bulldozer was much wider than their alleys. But I am not looking for excuses or anything. You must 'shave' them. I didn't give a damn about demolishing their houses, because it saved the lives of our soldiers....

I had no mercy for anybody. I would erase anyone with the D-9, just so that our soldiers won't expose themselves to danger.

I was willing to do with my bulldozer anything they would ask for. I begged for work. 'Let me finish another house, open another track,'I would say.

I had no problem of fatigue, because I drank whisky all the time. I had a bottle in the bulldozer at all times.

Difficult? No way. You must be kidding. I wanted to destroy everything. I begged the officers, over the radio, to let me knock it all down; from top to bottom. To level everything. It's not as if I wanted to kill. Just the houses. We didn't harm those who came out of the houses we had started to demolish, waving white flags. We screwed just those who wanted to fight.

When I was told to bring down a house, I took the opportunity to bring down some more houses

For three days, I just destroyed and destroyed. The whole area. Any house that they fired from came down. And to knock it down, I tore down some more. They were warned by loudspeaker to get out of the house before I come, but I gave no one a chance. I didn't wait. I didn't give one blow, and wait for them to come out. I would just ram the house with full power, to bring it down as fast as possible

I didn't give a damn about the Palestinians,I didn't just ruin with no reason. It was all under orders.

Many people were inside the houses we sought to demolish. They would come out of the houses we were working on. I didn't see, with my own eyes, people dying under the blade of the D-9. and I didn't see house falling down on live people. But if there were any, I wouldn't care at all. I am sure people died inside these houses, but it was difficult to see, there was lots of dust everywhere, and we worked a lot at night. I found joy with every house that came down, because I knew they didn't mind dying, but they cared for their homes. If you knocked down a house, you buried 40 or 50 people for generations. If I am sorry for anything, it is for not tearing the whole camp down....

I had plenty of satisfaction. I really enjoyed it.

I had lots of satisfaction in Jenin, lots of satisfaction. It was like getting all the 18 years of doing nothing - into three days. The soldiers came up to me and said: 'Kurdi, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot'.

As far as I am concerned, I left them with a football stadium, so they can play. This was our gift to the camp....

On Sunday (April 14), after the fighting was over, we got orders to pull our D-9s out of the area and stop working on our 'football stadium', because the army didn't want the cameras and the press to see us working.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51a/041.html

Darlughda

Well thanks for those links Uprising and Brown Bomber. Indeed I got to admit this zionist thing is way more complicated than I thought. I found the video with the orthodox jews particularly interesting.

uprising2

This site is something else, my jaw was dangling reading it......

Corrie was standing in a trench where she could not be seen, protecting an entrance to a weapons tunnel.
Actual video footage from the Israeli Defense Forces show the real circumstances under which the terrorist-loving anarchist died: knee-deep in a trench in the middle of dirt in an open dirt field.
http://www.think-israel.org/israelmatzav.howcorriedied.html




Fundamental Human Rights

The Right to a Sustainable Future [Filtered & blocked by Google!]
http://rtsf.wordpress.com/2009/03/

PirateShampoo

If you have ever worked on a building site then you would know that one of the stupidest places you could stand was in a trench in front of a digger.

You can see in the picture you have posted the size of the blade, now drop here another 2 foot below that and it would be imposable to see her,

Brown Bomber

Maximum Protection, Practicality, and Ergonomics
The crew cabin accommodates a driver and commander, and comes equipped with communications, fire-suppression and personal weapon retention systems.

Ergonomically positioned armored glass in the crew cabin provides maximum ballistic protection
with high visibility, allowing views of all vehicle components in all directions.

Providing ballistic protection to customer-defined threat levels, this proven Armored Caterpillar D9 configuration has earned high marks for dependability, ease-of-use, and above all -crew protection.

Source: Israeli Aircraft Industries.
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/9/34159.pdf