[Article] Crash closes Dublin Port Tunnel

markpb

[quote=Irish Times[/quote]Dublin Port Tunnel is being evacuated after two lorries crashed in the northbound bore just over two hours ago.

The tunnel has been closed to all traffic although some 40 vehicles remain in the tunnel, unable to pass the crash site. The southbound bore has also been closed as a result of the incident.

A spokesman for the National Roads Authority said both lorries were travelling in the same direction at the time of the crash.

Large safety doors between the north and southbound tunnels are currently being opened to allow trapped traffic do a u-turn. The spokesman said emergency procedures were working well and the evacuation is expected to go smoothly.[/quote]

(c) Irish Times

As far as I can remember, this is the first major incident in DPT since it opened (not that it's very major in the grand scheme of things). I wonder how it will go, how prepared their plans are, how long it will take to get everyone out, the trucks documented and moved and the tunnel re-opened.

Cookie_Monster

I wonder what they were up to to crash into each other.

Do you get your money back if have to do a u-turn :P

KevR

Should be a barrel of laughs around Dublin as the afternoon progresses if the tunnel stays closed.

Stenna Line ferry due at Dublin Port at 17:05 followed by an Irish Ferries ferry 20 minutes after that. Another Irish Ferries ferry is due in at 19:15 also.

All the trucks and cars will have to travel through the city if the Northbound tunnel stays closed that long. This will be in addition to the usual Friday evening traffic. :eek:

Best of luck to anyone who has to travel in Dublin today!

Run_to_da_hills

Two trucks have a crash and block the tunnell..........

Two hours later 40 cars are still stuck in the tunnel.

God help them if they ever have a fire. :eek:

KevR

City Link and Go Bus services to Galway usually use the tunnel when coming from the airport. It could cause delays for buses this evening. Wouldn't not like to be on my way to Dublin Airport on a bus at the moment!!

KevR

AA Roadwatch wrote:

*MAIN TRAFFIC* * The Dublin Port Tunnel has been closed in both directions since approx. 11:45am following a collision. It is anticipated that the tunnel will reopen before 3:15pm and the HGV ban in the city centre has been lifted. * As a result traffic is very heavy inbound on the Swords Rd as far the Drumcondra Rd/Clonliffe Rd Jct and slow from there to the Port. * Also delays on Alfie Byrne Rd turning right onto the Malahide Rd. * Slow on North Wall Quay and onto the South Quays.

Hopefully they will get it open by then.


Update:

AA Roadwatch wrote:

*MAIN TRAFFIC* * The Dublin Port Tunnel has reopened in both directions following an earlier collision at 11:45am approx.

Cookie_Monster

Fair play, not a bad turnaround to have it fully re-open.

I would have thought it'd take longer to clear up all the bits and pieces and the inevitable investigation.

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Fair play, not a bad turnaround to have it fully re-open.

I would have thought it'd take longer to clear up all the bits and pieces and the inevitable investigation.

There is CCTV all over the tunnel. Doubtful you need much more then a full video of the crash from multiple angles.

amacachi

Hope there's a prosecution. Though I don't think we've upped our driving penalties recently have we?

Live Drive

Dorset St/Swords Rd is moving as normal following the closure earlier however Ballymun village and N2 from Glasnevin to the M50 are very heavy. The N2 in particular is awful with journey times of 60 minutes+ to get to the M50.

Check http://twitter.com/LiveDrive for more updates

Poster King

I had to travel back from Portmarnock to the Southside at about 2pm. This explains why it took me two hours to get to Donnybrook. Nightmare stuff. I am so lucky I don't have to contend with this sort of thing on a daily basis.

Live Drive

N2 not a problem anymore. Ballymun has gotten worse though. Dorset St back to Granby Row

Victor

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

God help them if they ever have a fire. :eek:

You get out of your vehicle and walk to the fire exit thats 50-100m away.

There has been a number of other incidents, including a small fire AFAIK.

probe

The inter-distance between vehicles in the Dublin Port Tunnel is far too short for safety. The regulations say 50m for cars and 100m for trucks. An inter-distance of only 50m on a motorway in the open air on a sunny day would be gross negligence – not to mind in a tunnel with the far greater risks involved.

A study of the accident in the Mont-Blanc Tunnel* which did modelling of traffic flow in tunnels, recommended an inter-distance greater than 150m between vehicles – at lower speeds than the 80 km/h permitted in the Dublin tunnel. The current regulations in the Mont-Blanc Tunnel require inter-distances of up to 300m between vehicles (eg buses following trucks).

French research shows that 43% of motorway accidents are caused by driving too close to the vehicle in front, and they use automated cameras to measure the distance between vehicles and issue fines to drivers who drive too close.

In 2002, over 5,000 people were killed or injured from “driving too close” accidents in France. In most European countries the inside lane marker on motorways and expressways is broken at intervals, and one is required to drive at least two line segments from the vehicle in front. This acts as a continuous “measuring tape” and reminder to drivers, unlike the non-standard “chevrons” used in the DPT.

As is usual Ireland has re-invented the wheel yet again by creating inadequate systems and regulations that ignore the experiences and norms that apply in other European countries.

Needless to say similar regulations should be applied in the N25 tunnel in Cork and the Limerick tunnel when it opens.

*http://www.entpe.fr/fr/content/download/896/6623/file/Henn-Lesort-PresentationEWGT-2006.pdf

Victor

probe wrote: »

*www.entpe.fr/fr/content/.../file/Henn-Lesort-PresentationEWGT-2006.pdf

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3Awww.entpe.fr+Henn-Lesort-PresentationEWGT-2006.pdf&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=site%3Awww.entpe.fr+Henn-Lesort-PresentationEWGT-2006.pdf&fp=1b9877f18f2f4607

johnnyrotten

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Two trucks have a crash and block the tunnell..........

Two hours later 40 cars are still stuck in the tunnel.

God help them if they ever have a fire. :eek:

In the event of a fire the people can exit into the unaffected bore via Pedestrian Crossover points

Cookie_Monster

johnnyrotten wrote: »

In the event of a fire the people can exit into the unaffected bore via Pedestrian Crossover points

in the event of a fire i'd want to take my car with me thanks

dam099

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I wonder what they were up to to crash into each other.

Do you get your money back if have to do a u-turn :P

I suppose if you are going into town and did a u-turn you wouldn't have been charged at all.

I hope they at least left the toll booths open for those who were heading northbound and had to go back or they would have had to pay twice for a journey they didn't get to make.:eek:

D'Peoples Voice

probe wrote: »

In most European countries the inside lane marker on motorways and expressways is broken at intervals, and one is required to drive at least two line segments from the vehicle in front.

Just try and remain two chevrons back from the car in front of you,
and some idiot will cut into the lane in front of you.
Trust me, it happens me all the time, when I leave a good braking distance in the rain!

sdanseo

probe wrote: »

The inter-distance between vehicles in the Dublin Port Tunnel is far too short for safety. The regulations say 50m for cars and 100m for trucks. An inter-distance of only 50m on a motorway in the open air on a sunny day would be gross negligence – not to mind in a tunnel with the far greater risks involved.

A study of the accident in the Mont-Blanc Tunnel* which did modelling of traffic flow in tunnels, recommended an inter-distance greater than 150m between vehicles – at lower speeds than the 80 km/h permitted in the Dublin tunnel. The current regulations in the Mont-Blanc Tunnel require inter-distances of up to 300m between vehicles (eg buses following trucks).

French research shows that 43% of motorway accidents are caused by driving too close to the vehicle in front, and they use automated cameras to measure the distance between vehicles and issue fines to drivers who drive too close.

In 2002, over 5,000 people were killed or injured from “driving too close” accidents in France. In most European countries the inside lane marker on motorways and expressways is broken at intervals, and one is required to drive at least two line segments from the vehicle in front. This acts as a continuous “measuring tape” and reminder to drivers, unlike the non-standard “chevrons” used in the DPT.

As is usual Ireland has re-invented the wheel yet again by creating inadequate systems and regulations that ignore the experiences and norms that apply in other European countries.

Needless to say similar regulations should be applied in the N25 tunnel in Cork and the Limerick tunnel when it opens.

*http://www.entpe.fr/fr/content/download/896/6623/file/Henn-Lesort-PresentationEWGT-2006.pdf

Major difference being though that most of those tunnels are single-bore, bi-directional ones. In the DPT tailgating isn't as big an issue because generally speaking you can overtake once people clue in and drive in the left lane (although it does happen when there's a good bit of traffic in the left lane, you get some ponce in his X5 sitting on your bumper as if he's on the N63 waiting to overtake - I;d jail people like that for life tbh endangering god knows how many lives)

The amount of cameras vs. enforcement in the tunnel is shocking though. I've gone through a little over the speed limit (for my sins, never over 90km/h) and still had people literally fly past me - and never ever ever heard of anyone being done for speeding in it. Why not have the VMS display "Black Golf 00-D-9999, STOP TAILGATING" or "TOO FAST SLOW DOWN NOW" - and GATSO people with 4 points for speeding in a tunnel?

From my experience of the tunnel, it could take 120km/h if it was on the surface. Tailgating is the main safety issue.

Quick question - sometimes the speed limit signs are static and sometimes flashing. Is flashing meant to indicate someone is going too fast (not me :P )

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

in the event of a fire i'd want to take my car with me thanks

You're kidding, right?

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

You're kidding, right?

no.

If there was a crash/fire half a km up the tunnel from where I was stopped by the tunnel systems do you think I'm just going to leave my car there?! No way.

If it was right at the scene at there was any danger from it then its a different story obviously.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no.

If there was a crash/fire half a km up the tunnel from where I was stopped by the tunnel systems do you think I'm just going to leave my car there?! No way.

If it was right at the scene at there was any danger from it then its a different story obviously.

If you're in the tunnel, how are you going to know how far away the fire is, how fast it's spreading or how far you have to travel to the next forward vehicular cross-hatch? You're probably not going to be able to safely turn around and go back so you're only hope is that you can beat the fire to the escape route. Combine that with all the other people panicking in their cars and suddenly you've turned a routine evacuation into a proper emergency.

How much is your car worth?

Paulzx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no.

If there was a crash/fire half a km up the tunnel from where I was stopped by the tunnel systems do you think I'm just going to leave my car there?! No way.

.

Eh, do you think you're actually going to have a choice? Trying to drive your car through one of the pedestrian crossover points is going to be slightly awkward.

In fairness you can always stay with your car and "guard" it to make sure the big bad fire doesn't get it.

You have a funny sense of priorities but hey, maybe you really love your car

Victor

sdonn wrote: »

From my experience of the tunnel, it could take 120km/h if it was on the surface. Tailgating is the main safety issue.

Not quite - the lay-bys are very tight and I wouldn't want to hit one at 120km/h.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

If you're in the tunnel, how are you going to know how far away the fire is, how fast it's spreading or how far you have to travel to the next forward vehicular cross-hatch? You're probably not going to be able to safely turn around and go back so you're only hope is that you can beat the fire to the escape route. Combine that with all the other people panicking in their cars and suddenly you've turned a routine evacuation into a proper emergency.

How much is your car worth?

I'm the type of person who makes sure they get thier bag and coat if a fire alarm goes off, why would I leave a 30k car in a tunnel for it to potentially go on fire?

I presume the tunnel company would be responsible for anything that happened as they forced you to leave it there...

Paulzx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why would I leave a 30k car in a tunnel for it to potentially go on fire?

..

Maybe to ensure that you don't potentially go on fire.

Cookie_Monster

Paulzx wrote: »

Maybe to ensure that you don't potentially go on fire.

as i've already stated if i was close to the incident and in immediate danger I'd obviously bail but if there was a possibility that in half an hour the fire would spread that far for whatever reason surely its in everyone interest to get as many vehicles out of the way as possible

Paulzx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

surely its in everyone interest to get as many vehicles out of the way as possible

Out of the way of what?

Its actually a lot more benificial for the emergency services to know that all people are out of the affected tunnell. They can then concentrate fully on extingushing any fire.

sdanseo

Victor wrote: »

Not quite - the lay-bys are very tight and I wouldn't want to hit one at 120km/h.

Ah yes but you wouldn't need the laybys on the surface :P