Suggestion: create a sub-forum 'buying a camera'

dinneenp

Hi,
The forum is littered with threads such as
'buying my first dslr'
'should I buy a dslr' etc.

Why not create a sub-forum that covers buying advice?
It'd make it a lot easier for people I think.

Cheers,
Pa

DaireQuinlan

dinneenp wrote: »

Hi,
The forum is littered with threads such as
'buying my first dslr'
'should I buy a dslr' etc.

Why not create a sub-forum that covers buying advice?
It'd make it a lot easier for people I think.

Cheers,
Pa

there's already a sticky. The vast majority of threads should IMO be re-directed to the sticky and then locked so they fall off the page. The ones left would comprise follow on questions by people who'd done their initial research and wanted specific questions answered or whatever. That would leave a fairly low volume of buying threads that wouldn't take up that much real-estate and might actually attract answers as opposed to being ignored.

Martron

yeah most of the answers would be the same anyway that if you ran a search you will see the hundreds of previous threads.

i agrra with Daire that if you have a specific camera question by all means ask but the " what will i buy" has been covered!

trishw78

Sometimes people just want personal experience with camera's. Yes I know they should specify that when posting. A lot of the posters are pointed that way.

Basically what I'm saying is that there have always been "what camera" threads. This is usually the first point of contact for new photogs/users of this forum, I think it's important to make them feel welcome so that they'll stay & contribute. I don't think having a sub-forum for the gear heads or newbies is going to entice them to stay.

charybdis

As I said almost ten months ago, the problem isn't so much people wandering in and making inane, unanswerable queries about what camera they should buy; the problem is that other people on the forum actually entertain their questions and keep the thread lurching about the forum for days until the issue is socratically whittled down to the fact that the inquirer simply doesn't want to be responsible for their own decisions.

The purpose of having a sticky or subforum or some sort of maw that we can cast them into isn't to stop them asking questions in the first place, it's to have somewhere to dismiss them to for everyone's benefit.

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

there's already a sticky. The vast majority of threads should IMO be re-directed to the sticky and then locked so they fall off the page. The ones left would comprise follow on questions by people who'd done their initial research and wanted specific questions answered or whatever. That would leave a fairly low volume of buying threads that wouldn't take up that much real-estate and might actually attract answers as opposed to being ignored.

Actually, the sticky disappeared a few months ago. Although I am in favour of locking the threads as they appear and sending the inquirer elsewhere.

trishw78 wrote: »

Sometimes people just want personal experience with camera's. Yes I know they should specify that when posting. A lot of the posters are pointed that way.

Basically what I'm saying is that there have always been "what camera" threads. This is usually the first point of contact for new photogs/users of this forum, I think it's important to make them feel welcome so that they'll stay & contribute. I don't think having a sub-forum for the gear heads or newbies is going to entice them to stay.

As I said before, it is far more likely that someone has written an easily accessible account of their experiences with a particular piece of commonly-available hardware elsewhere on teh interwebs than the possibility that someone who frequents this particular forum has had a similar experience and has been waiting to dispense a first hand account on request.

I would also venture to suggest that there isn't much point in courting new forum users who behave in this manner as they have already demonstrated their tendency towards selfishness or just general ineptitude. Their problem isn't anything to do with cameras or photography, it's a lack of courtesy or basic rational ability.

baby and crumble

The only thing I will say is that I get incredibly confused by mad long threads... The camera gear sticky makes me nervous when I try to navigate it.

I think having a dedicated sub forum would be a good thing- that way the threads can be moved to there if needs be and the people who do actually like to give people their opinions can still answer them without 'messing up' the forum for others. (Although if people are answering a thread, I think that means that it's not a bad thing. I think it's a bit harsh to criticise people who want opinions on what is a pretty huge outlay of money, especially if you're only getting started...)

DaireQuinlan

zoegh wrote: »

I think it's a bit harsh to criticise people who want opinions on what is a pretty huge outlay of money, especially if you're only getting started...)

It's not really criticism as such. Pointing someone off to (say) DPReview and locking the thread is actually doing them a big favour. They're far more likely to get good information on DPReview ( the most popular site on the planet devoted entirely to digital paraphernalia ) than they are here, where there might be, if they're lucky, one or two people who might have used whatever the <brand name> compact is that's been released THIS wednesday.

trishw78

zoegh wrote: »

The only thing I will say is that I get incredibly confused by mad long threads... The camera gear sticky makes me nervous when I try to navigate it.

The first 4 options in the FAQ thread are specifically aimed at the 'What Camera' people. The rest of the first post is links to post processing, courses etc.

trishw78

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

It's not really criticism as such. Pointing someone off to (say) DPReview and locking the thread is actually doing them a big favour. They're far more likely to get good information on DPReview ( the most popular site on the planet devoted entirely to digital paraphernalia ) than they are here, where there might be, if they're lucky, one or two people who might have used whatever the <brand name> compact is that's been released THIS wednesday.

Ok so lets create a list of sites that are useful. starting with

www.dpreview.com
www.ephotozine.com

DaireQuinlan

trishw78 wrote: »

Ok so lets create a list of sites that are useful. starting with

www.dpreview.com
www.ephotozine.com

These are already linked through the FAQ on the 'so you're thinking of buying a new camera' link. The DPReview buying guide and comparison charts are linked explicitly.

The problem, as always, is that no-one seems to ever actually read the sticky before posting their "I want to buy a new camera, what should I buy please" questions. These are the ones that should just be re-directed and locked.

Calina

dinneenp wrote: »

Hi,
The forum is littered with threads such as
'buying my first dslr'
'should I buy a dslr' etc.

Why not create a sub-forum that covers buying advice?
It'd make it a lot easier for people I think.

Cheers,
Pa

I'd veto the idea immediately. Ultimately I don't have a huge issue with the "I need advice about what to get" threads because we all started immediately. However, I don't see that we need a subforum for it. Looking at the way the subfora are used, there's an argument for reducing the number of them because they generally become quiet compared to the main forum.

There is a some FAQ on the subject but we have historically been hampered by ongoing changes in product ranges. The same would happen to a subforum and there tends to be a major issue when people are looking for advice about compact cameras mainly because a significant number of posters here have more expertise on the DSLR front.

I occasionally see narky responses to newby posters here and they tend to get short shrift from me. Comments about the power of google and such are unhelpful and rude; far better to just ignore the relevant threads if you don't want to or can't help the OP. I realise that when you get similar threads on a regular basis, it gets boring.

I see no good reason for a special subforum for this unless we farmed 100% of the gear threads out there and to be honest, I'm not sure that constantly subdividing Photography is a good idea -the forum will fragment quite easily and let's face it, there are a bunch of other fragmented photography fora out there such as photographyireland and photography-on-the-net. One of the positive features about this particularly one - I have always thought - is its melting pot approach.

Fenster

I think a subforum is a bad idea - we would be validating those people who wander in here asking us to justify their crisis of conscience over splashing out ~€600 on their first DSLR.

I kid.

We have a thread for those posts and all uninformed requests should simply go back there. Genuine requests should be left put.

I've been on and off this forum for months now. I'm a beginner in the whole photography area and so my opinion is probably not to be taken too seriously, but I really don't think this forum caters much for the beginner at all really.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the posters. They're all hugely helpful, i just mean the forum itself. The stickies and FAQs are really no use to someone interested in starting out.

I usually spend ages on the internet looking up every aspect of a product I intend to buy, and I have to say, when it came to my first DSLR, boards wasn't very useful, without making a post.


The biggest issue I can see, is that the FAQs, for example, aren't based to much on cameras themselves, but instead, on the users of cameras.

Instead of "Shutter speed is the duration of time the shutter shall remain open", we have "I don't feel very comfortable taking pictures in public".

I think an overhaul of the stickies should be done, and they should be done to represent the different levels of cameras.

For example, a sticky should be broken into several parts.

Compact Cameras
Bridge Cameras
DSLR - Entry Level
DSLR - Semi-Professional & Professional



I think this is a decent post;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055732651

But the issue with it is that he starts banging on about F1.8 and the 'nifty fifty'. That's grand for people who know what it means, but for a complete beginner, you may aswell be talking a different language.


Instead of a FAQ (though it is helpful) the forum should have tutorials. Instead of "this is what the A on your camera dial stands for", there should be "Introduction to Aperture" and a brief discussion about how aperture affects pictures and how it works, along with a load of photographs showing the differences.

When it comes to photography, knowing the theory and history is great and all, but knowing how to achieve different results is much more important.


I recently purchased a guitar, which will hopefully arrive tomorrow. I plan to get help from a friend to play a song called Slow Chemical. If I can get that down, then I will feel like i've accomplished something and I can go on to learn further if I so wish. However, if i learn Mary Had A Little Lamb and the history of guitar, there's a much higher chance my guitar will be covered in dust in a few weeks.


If someone is given a good tutorial on how to take a certain picutre that they want to take (I imagine most people buying a DSLR have a picture in their head that they want to take) then they are much more likely to continue on and learn more about the cameras further down the line.


If it were up to me, personally, I'd merge the Expeditions forum with this one, and create a new one called 'News and Headlines' or something like that. That way the main the photography forum is based on helping people achieve different things with their camera and there's a seperate forum for discussing the law, the news stories, etc. that relate to cameras.


Alternatively, and this is a better idea in my opinion, if Boards.ie can have sub-sub forums, then i'd just change the 'Darkroom' to a Tutorials forum with two sub-forums. One could be the darkroom (so it doesnt get removed or anything) and another could be what i was talking about above (tutorials for the different settings, etc.)


For me personally, I have an understanding of Aperture now. I don't know it inside-out, but I know the basic principles of how it works. This is because user Chorcai met up with me on two occassions and explained it to me, and showed me different examples of how it works. Otherwise, I'd still be sitting here, not having a clue what it was.


By the way, regarding what I said earlier about the stickies; don't get me wrong, I'm sure the stickies are great on here, but they're just so long that they scare you away. Also, sending someone to DPReview is a waste of their time. It's great to read an in-depth review about a camera, but it's no use if you've nothing to compare it against, and their guides are really more catered to knowlegeable people.



I really, really enjoy the photography forum. I like seeing other people's pictures and reading the discussions. I don't really think much needs to be change, truth be told, i'm just nitpicking with this post, but that's how I feel regarding the forum as a whole. If it stays as it is, then that's all fine and well. However, if there was anything I was going to change about it, then the above is what it'd be

Calina

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been on and off this forum for months now. I'm a beginner in the whole photography area and so my opinion is probably not to be taken too seriously, but I really don't think this forum caters much for the beginner at all really.

It's a place where you can come ask questions/give feedback. It doesn't really have a mandate to cater for any particular type of photographer.

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the posters. They're all hugely helpful, i just mean the forum itself. The stickies and FAQs are really no use to someone interested in starting out.

Without wanting to defend them, I would point out they are effectively the sum of the stuff that has been asked most frequently in the past.

Deleted User wrote: »

I usually spend ages on the internet looking up every aspect of a product I intend to buy, and I have to say, when it came to my first DSLR, boards wasn't very useful, without making a post.

Typically when someone asks for advice I ask what they want to use the camera for and try and tailor the response to that. There is no one-size fits all amount of advice that is easy to offer. It's also not a passive environment per se - if you're looking for a particular piece of information you have to ask for it.

Deleted User wrote: »

The biggest issue I can see, is that the FAQs, for example, aren't based to much on cameras themselves, but instead, on the users of cameras.

Instead of "Shutter speed is the duration of time the shutter shall remain open", we have "I don't feel very comfortable taking pictures in public".

I think an overhaul of the stickies should be done, and they should be done to represent the different levels of cameras.

For example, a sticky should be broken into several parts.

Compact Cameras
Bridge Cameras
DSLR - Entry Level
DSLR - Semi-Professional & Professional

We overhaul the stickies on a regular basis. There was a concerted effort sometime ago to decouple advice from "cameras currently available" to more general information. The reason for this as I pointed out already is that camera catalogues tend to change very often.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this is a decent post;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055732651

But the issue with it is that he starts banging on about F1.8 and the 'nifty fifty'. That's grand for people who know what it means, but for a complete beginner, you may aswell be talking a different language.


Instead of a FAQ (though it is helpful) the forum should have tutorials. Instead of "this is what the A on your camera dial stands for", there should be "Introduction to Aperture" and a brief discussion about how aperture affects pictures and how it works, along with a load of photographs showing the differences.

It take a huge amount of time to do this and I'd be interested to know whether you think this is something the moderator team should be doing in which case as volunteers it's a big ask. In other words, while it's nice to say you should have tutorials, they take time to put together and they are not per se, anyone's actual job. Additionally although it kills me to say this, the information you mention is available widely on the internet. I remember Wikipedia was quite good on this.

Deleted User wrote: »

When it comes to photography, knowing the theory and history is great and all, but knowing how to achieve different results is much more important.

YOu can't know how to achieve different results without understanding some of the theory.

Deleted User wrote: »

I recently purchased a guitar, which will hopefully arrive tomorrow. I plan to get help from a friend to play a song called Slow Chemical. If I can get that down, then I will feel like i've accomplished something and I can go on to learn further if I so wish. However, if i learn Mary Had A Little Lamb and the history of guitar, there's a much higher chance my guitar will be covered in dust in a few weeks.

There are certain basics you have to learn before you can go to the more desirable stuff. I used to teach guitar. Stairway to Heaven was a frequent request. You cannot learn that without some basic knowledge boring and all as it may seem. The same is true for photography.

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone is given a good tutorial on how to take a certain picutre that they want to take (I imagine most people buying a DSLR have a picture in their head that they want to take) then they are much more likely to continue on and learn more about the cameras further down the line.

You have to tell us what it is you want to achieve. I can't do this into the void; no one can. I gave a private lesson to someone who wanted to take good photographs once. That person didn't know what they wanted to photograph. If they have that photograph, they need to tell us.

Deleted User wrote: »

If it were up to me, personally, I'd merge the Expeditions forum with this one, and create a new one called 'News and Headlines' or something like that. That way the main the photography forum is based on helping people achieve different things with their camera and there's a seperate forum for discussing the law, the news stories, etc. that relate to cameras.

It's not up to you personally and to be honest, I'm not sure what you would expect to go into a "News and Headlines" forum that doesn't already belong in the main photography forum. Again; I've pointed out that constantly increasing the number of subfora is not necessarily a good thing.

Deleted User wrote: »

Alternatively, and this is a better idea in my opinion, if Boards.ie can have sub-sub forums, then i'd just change the 'Darkroom' to a Tutorials forum with two sub-forums. One could be the darkroom (so it doesnt get removed or anything) and another could be what i was talking about above (tutorials for the different settings, etc.)

I really can't see what would be served by subforuming out the Digital Darkroom. There are stickies which fulfull the need of your second tutorial forum and there's even a tutorial request thread in there.

Deleted User wrote: »

For me personally, I have an understanding of Aperture now. I don't know it inside-out, but I know the basic principles of how it works. This is because user Chorcai met up with me on two occassions and explained it to me, and showed me different examples of how it works. Otherwise, I'd still be sitting here, not having a clue what it was.

But this is the best way to do it. We have an expenditions forum so that people can come and get some hands on experience. And additionally there is also photowalk.ie which allows you to come and pick brains.

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way, regarding what I said earlier about the stickies; don't get me wrong, I'm sure the stickies are great on here, but they're just so long that they scare you away. Also, sending someone to DPReview is a waste of their time. It's great to read an in-depth review about a camera, but it's no use if you've nothing to compare it against, and their guides are really more catered to knowlegeable people.

I'm really not sure we can help here. It doesn't matter where you send someone to read a review of a camera be it here or DPReview or fredmiranda if they are really at the beginning status. And I would argue then they should perhaps not be buying an SLR per se...

Deleted User wrote: »

really, really enjoy the photography forum. I like seeing other people's pictures and reading the discussions. I don't really think much needs to be change, truth be told, i'm just nitpicking with this post, but that's how I feel regarding the forum as a whole. If it stays as it is, then that's all fine and well. However, if there was anything I was going to change about it, then the above is what it'd be

CabanSail

I would really like this to be more of a Photography Forum & less of a Camera Forum. I know it's a subtle difference.