Query about Licence.

slippy wicket

I have recently applied for a licence for a .243 rifle and today had a call from my local guard about my gunsafe.
Last friday i got a 4 gun safe and put it in the building on the farm where my parents park their car. I have two other guns, a shotgun and a .22 air rifle, and today the guard told me that the guy in the supers office had told him that i could either leave the safe where it is and fit a monitered alarm or move it into the house and fit a monitered alarm.

Some choice :rolleyes:

Any advice or similar stories.

Slick50

Have a look at www.garda.ie or check out the revised legislation, available on-line. It is probably because the .243 is now regarded as a restricted firearm.

slippy wicket

Just looked at the guards own guidelines and according to that it is only calibres above .308 that are restricted.

Slick50

May be the number of firearms being held, either? Have a look at "secure accommodation regulations" he could be miss interprating the new regulations. Give him the web address above.

slippy wicket

Could be, as the air rifle is the same in their eyes as the .243

Cass

Slick50 wrote: »

..... It is probably because the .243 is now regarded as a restricted firearm.

This is wrong. A .243 is NOT a restricted firearm.

SI 307/2009 - One restricted or three or fewer non- restricted firearms - Each firearm shall be securly stored in a gun safe that complies with BS 7558 and shall be securly fixed to a solid structure.

The above requirments are MINIMUM requirements and can be altered to include more security measures if it is deemed necessary.

slippy wicket

Thanks ezridax, didnt realise that it was a minimum level of security. Do you think that it would be worthwhile to talk to the guy in the supers office, just to clarify things.

Cass

slippy wicket wrote: »

..........Do you think that it would be worthwhile to talk to the guy in the supers office, just to clarify things.

Absolutely. Talk to him to clarify his concerns and why he feels it necessary to increase the minimum required level of security. I would suggest this before spending alot of money on extra security.

Sparks

At a rough guess, it's the total number of firearms that's the issue there.

Slick50

Sparks wrote: »

At a rough guess, it's the total number of firearms that's the issue there.

I would say ezridax is right, it is to do with minimum security requirements. The fact that it is a farm setting would suggest a rural location. (the "third circle of hell" could be causing the super some concern too.)

rrpc

This is the part in SI307 that applies:

Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms:

Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the
place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

It's quite possible that the Garda has misinterpreted the 'Alarm' requirement as being for a monitored alarm rather than a non-monitored one. Such subtleties are often forgotten when people memorise legislation. A copy of the SI when visiting the station should clear that up.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

This is the part in SI307 that applies

Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms

How so. That is level 3 security, for persons with 2 restricted or MORE than three non-restricted firearms. The OP has 2 non-restricted firearms and is looking for a 3rd meaning if successful he would have a total of 3 non-restricted firearms putting him into level 2.

It's quite possible that the Garda has misinterpreted the 'Alarm' requirement

I agree that he misinterpreted the SI but to the point where he placed the OP's security requirements into the wrong bracket altogether.

A copy of the SI when visiting the station should clear that up

+1 on that. Having it in writing and not just "your say so" is always a good way to go.

Rovi

Here's the S.I.:
SI 307 2009 FIREARMS (SECURE ACCOMMODATION) REGULATIONS 2009

As has been regularly pointed out since its publication, there are a couple of very important words in paragraph 4 (the one that refers to the table of firearm types/numbers/security):

4. The holders of firearm certificates in respect of firearms of the types and numbers mentioned in column (2) of the Schedule at any reference number shall comply with the minimum standards in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for those firearms specified in column (3) opposite that reference number.

The security provisions listed are minimum standards, and the Superintendent is perfectly at liberty to stipulate more elaborate provisions should they deem it necessary.
Whether those more elaborate provisions are 'reasonable' or not may be for a court to decide.

In the case of the OP, I suspect that they're looking for the highest (level 4) provision because the gunsafe is not within the fabric of the house, but in an (mostly unoccupied?) outbuilding:

slippy wicket wrote: »

i got a 4 gun safe and put it in the building on the farm where my parents park their car.

On the face of it, and without knowing the particular circumstances of the remoteness or otherwise of the outbuilding and the general area in which it is located, I wouldn't see that as entirely unreasonable.

Given the above, and all else being equal, I'd say there should be room to clarify/debate/negotiate this bit:

slippy wicket wrote: »

or move it into the house and fit a monitered alarm.

slippy wicket

Thanks for all the advice. Just to clarify, the room the safe is in is 10 m from our kitchen door and is where our dogs are kenneled at night.
The only problem i was expecting was the door, which is a homemade plywood door, that if push came to shove i would be happy replace if i did not have to fit an alarm.
Also, I know it runs against the grain, but i would hand in the shotgun as it is never used , if it would sort out this problem.