Is Ireland under attack .

PirateShampoo

Emkay wrote: »

There are other possibilities to add to your deductions.

Tests have been carried out the expense of individuals since governments will not admit the air is being contaminated by aerosol spraying by aircraft and therefore do not fund the testing. The various tests in different laboratories will have been for certain substances and the results obtained will not necessarily prelude there being other substances present which were not, in fact, tested for.

Of course there is no strict consistency as to the objectives of the chemtrail programme. That is not surprising, given that the whole programme is denied by politicians, including in Ireland. Until individuals involved in the planning and execution of these aerosol programmes 'blow the whistle' in such a way as to be seen to be credible, then conjecture as to the reasons for this programme will remain just that.

The results of chemtrails can, however, clearly be seen on the weather and in people's health, for example in morgellons, which is what this thread was concerning at the outset.

Your location is given as Switzerland. Chemtrails have been photographed and filmed in many different parts of Switzerland, including Bern, Basel and Zurich. Please watch the following video and explain away the massive stripes in the sky, if you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNgIphYezsQ

Most of them formations are naturally occurring.

Cirrus Clouds.

Cirrus clouds generally refer to atmospheric clouds that are characterized by thin, wisplike strands, often accompanied by tufts, leading to their common (non-standard) name of mare's tail. Sometimes these clouds are so extensive that they are virtually indistinguishable from one another, forming a sheet of cirrus called cirrostratus. Sometimes convection at high altitudes produces another form of cirrus called cirrocumulus, a pattern of small cloud tufts which include droplets of supercooled water. The term is also used for certain interstellar clouds composed of sub-micrometre sized dust grains.
Many cirrus clouds produce hair like filaments made of the heavier ice crystals that precipitate from them. These "fall streaks", a form of virga, often indicate the difference in the motion of air (wind shear) between the upper part of the cirrus cloud and the air below it. Sometimes the top of the cirrus cloud is moving rapidly above a slower layer of air, or the streak is falling into a faster moving lower layer. The directions of these winds can also vary.

Cirrus clouds are formed when water vapor freezes into ice crystals at altitudes above 8000 meters (26,000 ft). Due to the sparse moisture at a high altitude, they tend to be very thin. At this altitude, aircraft leave condensation trails that can turn into cirrus clouds. This happens when hot exhaust, mostly water, freezes, leaving a visible trail. Streaks may appear straight when wind shear is absent, giving the clouds the appearance of a comma (cirrus uncinus), or tangle, an indication of high-level turbulence. The falling ice crystals evaporate before reaching the ground.

Lab_Mouse

it has been explained to you how contrails have formed and how the altitude,air humidity etc affect water in the air and whow contrails can be effected long after they have formed.

Also its been said a few times that it is an extremely ineffective way of spreading diseases or toxins.

Only time that air dropped spray or toxin succeeds is when its dropped from very low altitude(like agent orange in vietnam as you said in your post).

You have provided very little evidence to suggest that its anything else BUT contails.Not enough to raise a doubt in my mind imho

PirateShampoo

Emkay wrote: »

So how come US planes dropped agent orange to deforest huge areas during the Vietnam war? They were successful, were they not, and large swathes of land remain contaminated to this day.

Here is a picture of Agent Orange being dropped in Vietnam, theres a bit of a difference between the suggested chemtrail spraying and this.




"A UH-1D helicopter from the 336th Aviation Company sprays a defoliation agent on a dense jungle area in the Mekong Delta. 26 July 1969/National Archives photograph."



"Defoliant spray run, part of Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War by UC-123B Provider aircraft"

uprising2

DeBunny wrote: »

Yes, Jets leave behind Co2 and other exhaust fumes but these have little or no effect on people due to the billions of cubic metres of space between the plane and the ground. If planes where dropping chemicals then the chemicals would be rendered completely infective due to the planes altitude.

If you dropped a ball from the hight that a plane flies at it will veer thousands of miles off course. If you drop liquid chemicals at that hight the chemicals won't even fall. They'll stay suspended in the air for a looong time and become unfathomably diluted. Small particles, dropped at that hight, don't even fall. As methods of poisoning go, this a terrible one. Not even Dr. Evil would try this.

CO2 is carbon dioxide, CO is carbon monoxide, we breath in oxygen O(2) and breath out carbon dioxide CO2, tree's and plant's breath in carbon dioxide CO2 and breath out oxygen O(2).

Then there are other chemicals associated with kerosene exhaust fumes that you failed to add, anybody reading your analysis if they took it as fact would believe that the only chemical coming from the jet exhaust fumes was plain old water, which it is not.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Here is a picture of Agent Orange being dropped in Vietnam, theres a bit of a difference between the suggested chemtrail spraying and this.




"A UH-1D helicopter from the 336th Aviation Company sprays a defoliation agent on a dense jungle area in the Mekong Delta. 26 July 1969/National Archives photograph."



"Defoliant spray run, part of Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War by UC-123B Provider aircraft"

Yea there is a few differences, and similarities.

Spraying of agent orange wasn't covert it was overt, they didn't bother hiding it because it was "enemy" land.

The pic above looks just like a planes chemtrail's except at lower altitude.

The lower altitude meant higher concentration's and less dilution hitting land and people, with worse effect.




EDIT:
Just a side note, the Vietnam war came to be on the back of "The gulf of Tonkin" LIE, so millions of people/animals/land/rivers suffered horendous damage because of USA lies, the greatest democracy and land of the free, did this because of a fukkin Lie. And people wonder why there is distrust of uncle sam!

bonkey

uprising2 wrote: »

anybody reading your analysis if they took it as fact would believe that the only chemical coming from the jet exhaust fumes was plain old water, which it is not.

This is the second time you've made this claim, and the second time that you're ignoring that this is not, in fact, what deBunny wrote.

Here's the key passage again:

When a jet passes through the sky, the jet engines suck in a vast amount of invisible air and moisture, leaving behind a trail of hot, humid air which comes in contact with the cold air, causing the moisture in the air to condense, thus becoming visible. And this is how we get chem-trails/con-trails/vapour-trails, call it what you will, all we are seeing is H2O.

Arguably, if one were to take this claim as fact, one might conclude that jet engines do nothing but heat air. There is no mention of anything being added but heat.

It is ironic, however, that the post began by deBunny saying that he didn't expect the chemtrail-believers to read it...and now twice you've misrepresented what he wrote, suggesting that you didn't, in fact, read it carefully at all.

bonkey

Emkay wrote: »

The results of chemtrails can, however, clearly be seen on the weather and in people's health, for example in morgellons, which is what this thread was concerning at the outset.

This line of reasoning suggests that a correlation between the two has been established.

Lets look at this for a moment.

You've admitted that there is no clear picture of what, if anything, being sprayed. You've admited that there is no clear picture of why anything is being sprayed, if something is being sprayed.

Yet, despite not knowing what, nor why, you can suggest that there is a clear effect on people's health, in the form of what can, at best, be described as a controversial claim regarding the existence of a new, and ill-defined condition.

Your location is given as Switzerland. Chemtrails have been photographed and filmed in many different parts of Switzerland, including Bern, Basel and Zurich. Please watch the following video and explain away the massive stripes in the sky, if you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNgIphYezsQ

The science which explains persistent contrails and cloud formations explains it all perfectly adequately. Perhaps you could explain what is wrong with the science behind this?

Note - I'm not asking for some platitude about how we shouldn't trust science, or how we need to think for ourselves. I'm asking for the actual flaw that shows it to be false.

uprising2

DeBunny wrote: »

First of; yes, ''chem-trails'' contain chemicals; H2O. A considerable amount of it at that.

@Bonkey
Yea but what other chemicals did debunny add?, correct me if I'm wrong but I can't find any other it that post.

bonkey

uprising2 wrote: »

The pic above looks just like a planes chemtrail's except at lower altitude.

One could argue that it looks just like conventional contrails, except at lower altitude.

Given that the picture shows a trail only some hundreds of meters behind a plane, rather than something which remained suspended in the atmosphere indefinitely, nor something which expanded into cloud-cover, it is, in fact more akin to a conventional contrail then what is claimed to be a chemtrail.

bonkey

uprising2 wrote: »

@Bonkey
Yea but what other chemicals did debunny add?, correct me if I'm wrong but I can't find any other it that post.

Why is the word other in that question?

deBunny had the H20 present in the air before it passed through the jet engine, and had it present afterwards. It wasn't added. He never said it was added. He said that it is a chemical (which it is) and that its present in contrails (which it is). He went on to say that its present in the air before it enters a jet engine (which it is) and is heated by its passage through the engine, causing the water to condense (which is correct).

The question should be to ask what chemicals did deBunny add at all, as his explanation didn't require the jet engine to add anything except heat.

I know I'm labouring a point here, but I don't think you're doing yourself any favours by showing that you're repeatedly misunderstanding what he wrote.

I'll admit that his explanation is slightly simplified, in that it ignores the effect that other exhaust gases can have on the process, but fundamentally his explanation is accurate. If a jet engine did nothing but heat air, it would still produce contrails in suitable conditions for contrail formation. Given that persistent contrails are simply contrails in a more specific set of conditions, they too could still be produced.

namloc1980

And aside from the water vapour that a turbofan engine sucks in during flight, the burning of aviation fuel in the engine actually produces a significant amount of water vapour in the exhaust as a by product. Aviation fuel like all oil based fuel is a Hydrocarbon, that is to say it is primarily composed of Hydrogen and Carbon. Hydrocarbons burn in Oxygen in the engine and as a result the Hydrocarbon will split and react with the O2 and combine with it. Thus CO2, CO and H2O are all chemical by products of the burning of the fuel.

So not only does the engine suck in an awful lot of water vapour during flight, it also produces water vapour itself = water vapour expelled behind the aircraft = contrails.

Here is a simple example of the burning of hydrocarbons, in this case it's Propane C3H8 (obviously aviation fuel is more complex but the basic principal is the same):

C3H8 (propane) + 5 O2 (oxygen) → 4 H2O (water) + 3 CO2 (carbon dioxide) + Energy

DeBunny

Sorry for the hit and run style posting but I think you guys did a better job of defending these facts (I wouldn't call them my points) than I could have. Cheers.

Yes, ''Uncle Sam'' and others commit atrocities and conspire to stay rich and powerful, but isn't very shocking. The rich and powerful have been conspiring to stay rich and powerful ever since humans established a hierarchical social structure. This doesn't mean everything is a conspiracy.
Hysteria like this chemtrail crap makes it a lot easier for ''Uncle Sam'' to pull off stuff like the Gulf of Tonkin atrocity.
Never mind global conspiracies, our country is trying to get back on it's feet and you lot are worried about suspended water and ice particles and irritating rashes which may or may not even exist.
Hopefully the believers among you will really consider the rebuttals of the chemtrail hoax posted here, and just let it go. Focus your bountiful rage on needier causes.

bonkey

DeBunny wrote: »

Hysteria like this chemtrail crap

A bit more respect for other peoples' opinions would go a long way.

IrelandSpirit

Torakx wrote: »

I would actually welcome heavy criticism on this because i believe its a very important conspiracy theory to deal with.
I am sure there is something up with this strange disease that popped up in canada and america iirc.And if its now reaching Ireland i would be very interested to see a good debate on the origins of morgellons and the link it may have with chemtrails.
Especially if that Ukraine news piece is anywhere near real.

Torakx, it's now reaching Ireland, yes. It is real whatever it is, I know some one with it and it's is ... fukcing strange, grows from his skin - his doctor has tried EVERYTHING and to no avail.

omelette

After spending 3 years in the Mayo countryside, I had formed the opinion that as far as Ireland was concerned, the chemtrail 'threat' was a non-issue - 'cos I never saw anything suspicious in the skies there! However, last week in Longford, I was shocked at the active 'painting' of the skies that was taking place - never witnessed anything like this!!! For those in denial that resort to the contrail-cause, after several hours of observing this, I also saw several 'normal' planes, contrails included - however, these all dissipated almost immediately as one would expect, whereas these chemtrails just go from horizon to horizon. Again today, same thing is going on. And rather more ominously, I've observed that 'they' seem to fly lower when it's cloudy - there were some really wide, low-looking chemtrails earlier today...:eek:

A few pics from last week...

Kepti

omelette wrote: »

After spending 3 years in the Mayo countryside, I had formed the opinion that as far as Ireland was concerned, the chemtrail 'threat' was a non-issue - 'cos I never saw anything suspicious in the skies there! However, last week in Longford, I was shocked at the active 'painting' of the skies that was taking place - never witnessed anything like this!!! For those in denial that resort to the contrail-cause, after several hours of observing this, I also saw several 'normal' planes, contrails included - however, these all dissipated almost immediately as one would expect, whereas these chemtrails just go from horizon to horizon. Again today, same thing is going on. And rather more ominously, I've observed that 'they' seem to fly lower when it's cloudy - there were some really wide, low-looking chemtrails earlier today...:eek:

A few pics from last week...

How can 'you' be sure that there are 'chemicals' in 'the' contrails?

Torakx

would have liked to see a time lapse of that to know if they expanded or just slowly dissipated.
I see what you mean about long streaks and others dissipating.
I dont know if thats me totally convinced as i cannot see it spreading in the pictures.
Someone will probably come along and say they are different type of contrails.

My name is URL

omelette wrote: »

After spending 3 years in the Mayo countryside, I had formed the opinion that as far as Ireland was concerned, the chemtrail 'threat' was a non-issue - 'cos I never saw anything suspicious in the skies there! However, last week in Longford, I was shocked at the active 'painting' of the skies that was taking place - never witnessed anything like this!!! For those in denial that resort to the contrail-cause, after several hours of observing this, I also saw several 'normal' planes, contrails included - however, these all dissipated almost immediately as one would expect, whereas these chemtrails just go from horizon to horizon. Again today, same thing is going on. And rather more ominously, I've observed that 'they' seem to fly lower when it's cloudy - there were some really wide, low-looking chemtrails earlier today...:eek:

A few pics from last week...

I posted these pics on another thread in Jan.. when they join together they form a thin layer of cloud

http://i45.tinypic.com/2r2ve68.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/28md63a.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2iasgua.jpg

I observed it again today but didn't have a camera.. and at the same time as seeing the lingering trail from 1 jet, I saw a quickly dispersing trail from another

studiorat

My name is URL wrote: »

I posted these pics on another thread in Jan.. when they join together they form a thin layer of cloud

http://i45.tinypic.com/2r2ve68.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/28md63a.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2iasgua.jpg

I observed it again today but didn't have a camera.. and at the same time as seeing the lingering trail from 1 jet, I saw a quickly dispersing trail from another

Some of those photos look more like wave clouds to me.

I've deleted the latest off-topic posts. james finn, any more off topic/"boards is a joke" type posts from you and it'll result in a warning.

giggsirish

Only new to the "Conspiracy Theories" side of boards and so far finding it fascinating. So decided post a view images taken over weekend. Being no expert not sure if these are the so called "chemtrails" but they spread out over time and lasted up until it got dark outside. Images taken on a Blackberry so may not be very clear.

My name is URL

studiorat wrote: »

Some of those photos look more like wave clouds to me.

Maybe they are, they started off as contrails though.. I watched them develop.

I don't believe in the 'chem' part of all this btw.. I can't imagine how such a large operation would go unnoticed by authorities and professionals

The fact that cloud cover is being created by contrails is another matter.. it would be rather easy to route planes in specific areas at specific times to create cloud cover... for whatever reason

omelette

My name is URL wrote: »

I posted these pics on another thread in Jan.. when they join together they form a thin layer of cloud

http://i45.tinypic.com/2r2ve68.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/28md63a.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2iasgua.jpg

I observed it again today but didn't have a camera.. and at the same time as seeing the lingering trail from 1 jet, I saw a quickly dispersing trail from another

Gotta admit that those also look like clouds to me!

PS - Just read your follow-on post! Did you initially see these being produced by an aircraft?

Mine were taken with a ****ty phone-camera, so it's hard to capture their horizon-to-horizon reality. Will have a much better camera for follow-ups. Definitely not clouds though.

My name is URL

omelette wrote: »

Gotta admit that those also look like clouds to me!

PS - Just read your follow-on post! Did you initially see these being produced by an aircraft?

Mine were taken with a ****ty phone-camera, so it's hard to capture their horizon-to-horizon reality. Will have a much better camera for follow-ups. Definitely not clouds though.

Yeah they begun as contrails.. I'm not bullshitting! I watched it all happening

Contrails do sometimes develop into clouds naturally though, depending on conditions.. Sublimation causes ice-crystals to turn from a solid state into a gas without liquefying first, that would cause the contrails to appear to grow.

bonkey

My name is URL wrote: »

Contrails do sometimes develop into clouds naturally though, depending on conditions.. Sublimation causes ice-crystals to turn from a solid state into a gas without liquefying first, that would cause the contrails to appear to grow.

Its also worth noting that in most such cases, the clouds would have formed anyway, even in the absence of contrails.

Basically, the contrails persist in conditions which are amost at the point of cloud-formation. If the conditions change to being at the point of cloud-formation, then clouds form. The contrails can act as "starting points" for this, but without them the clouds would form anyway.

Back when there wasn't such heavy air-traffic, or indeed in locations today where traffic is non-existant / light, no-one thought or thinks twice about a sunny day becoming hazy and/or clouding over. Add some aircraft to the equation, and you still have a sunny day becoming hazy and/or clouding over, but with the appearance that the contrails are causing it.

My name is URL

bonkey wrote: »

Its also worth noting that in most such cases, the clouds would have formed anyway, even in the absence of contrails.

Basically, the contrails persist in conditions which are amost at the point of cloud-formation. If the conditions change to being at the point of cloud-formation, then clouds form. The contrails can act as "starting points" for this, but without them the clouds would form anyway.

Back when there wasn't such heavy air-traffic, or indeed in locations today where traffic is non-existant / light, no-one thought or thinks twice about a sunny day becoming hazy and/or clouding over. Add some aircraft to the equation, and you still have a sunny day becoming hazy and/or clouding over, but with the appearance that the contrails are causing it.

Contrails play a big part in cloud formation and have a direct impact on diurnal temperatures, even if the conditions are right for cloud to develop naturally without any seeding. This was shown by the study into the effects of the grounding of planes on 9/11

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020808075457.htm

wingsof daun

Chemtrails almost everyday here in the northwest. Some almost directly over my home. Something must be done. It seems I see them everywhere I go in Ireland. It is sad people don't seem to realise something's wrong. There is no way a smoke trail, or the result in combustion of fuel can make these trails that I see.

thecommander

wingsof daun wrote: »

There is no way a smoke trail, or the result in combustion of fuel can make these trails that I see.

In your expert opinion why is that?

IrelandSpirit

wingsof daun wrote: »

Chemtrails almost everyday here in the northwest. Some almost directly over my home. Something must be done. It seems I see them everywhere I go in Ireland. It is sad people don't seem to realise something's wrong. There is no way a smoke trail, or the result in combustion of fuel can make these trails that I see.

Same here, began yesterday morning, lovely sunny day and continued all through the evening - by that time sky a white hazy mush, and now rain. Cloud seeding? Whatever chem-soup's up there is now raining down on all.

Yep, it is sad