What is the fate of the Mark 3's?

Judgement Day

I popped over to Waterford today - what a depressing kip - every time I visit (about once every two years) it's worse and I'm not just talking about the railway station! Anyway I digress, there are still at least two rakes of MkIIIs stored in the former goods yard see pic below - at least 16 vehicles but I couldn't be bothered to find out more information.
Interestingly the cement silo is still in situ - I can't imagine that it will last much longer though.

I wonder if they're done scrapping them or not? I heard about the ones in Dundalk being in a bad state but it was on Wikipedia so I don't know what to believe.

lord lucan

Karsini wrote: »

I wonder if they're done scrapping them or not? I heard about the ones in Dundalk being in a bad state but it was on Wikipedia so I don't know what to believe.

Heard the ones in Dundalk were so poor as to make them unmoveable,necessitating scrapping locally. That was late last year,i'm assuming they're still there.

Captain Chaos

Yeah, there are at least 2 sets in Dundalk. 2 in North Wall yard, 2 in Waterford and what ever is lying around at Huston and in Inchicore. Id say at least another two sets worth of coaches. I persume the 5 Mk3 DVTs are all in Inchicore.

Judgement Day

Do you think IE management would be so keen to get rid of them if they had to pay for replacements out of their over generous salaries? :mad:

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

Do you think IE management would be so keen to get rid of them if they had to pay for replacements out of their over generous salaries? :mad:

yes, sure they probably have ancient, ridiculous tax benefit for it.

"Replacement of railway stock allowance" - railway stock can be purchased tax deductible @115% from your salary. Can only be between 10-76 individual stock items per calendar year. must be used only when replacing otherwise useful stock. No receipts required, sign off from one of your buddies only. Only applicable to CIE/IE and other government agencies.

Victor

http://www.raiu.ie/uploads/raiu/100111%20RAIU%20IE%20Collision%20Waterford%20Station%20Investigation%20Report%2009032901%20Final%20(2).pdf

RSC wrote:

The coupling systems on all the carriages were damaged and the four wheels on one bogie of the first carriage struck derailed.

dowlingm

As of the 26th of February 2010, IÉ had advised that the following actions had been taken in relation to the accident: {snip}
* Locomotive hauled carriages were replaced by diesel multiple units with driving cabs at both ends for this service;

Well, there's a good IE excuse right there:

"Well, we can't keep the Mk3PP because no aircon and we can't keep the pull-only Mk3 sets because the loco might crash into them while running around!"

Captain Chaos

dowlingm wrote: »

Well, there's a good IE excuse right there:

"Well, we can't keep the Mk3PP because no aircon and we can't keep the pull-only Mk3 sets because the loco might crash into them while running around!"

Yeah, but we can use 6 piece DMU sets and when it jack knifes, all 6 cars are out of use and it's going to take a long time to fix. Great value for money there.

Tescoboat52

Judgement Day wrote: »

Do you think IE management would be so keen to get rid of them if they had to pay for replacements out of their over generous salaries? :mad:

But they already got replaced by 22000 railcar trains didn't they? Thats what all the trains in Heuston where when I was last there.

Judgement Day

Tescoboat52 wrote: »

But they already got replaced by 22000 railcar trains didn't they? Thats what all the trains in Heuston where when I was last there.

That's my point exactly, who do you think paid for the shiny new 22000s? Every penny that moribund CIE gets from the taxpayer indirectly leads to more people lying on trollies in A+E, social welfare cuts, reductions in special needs assistants etc.etc.etc. and it's high time that it was faced up to. This country can no longer afford CIE.

Rud

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah, there are at least 2 sets in Dundalk. 2 in North Wall yard, 2 in Waterford and what ever is lying around at Huston and in Inchicore. Id say at least another two sets worth of coaches. I persume the 5 Mk3 DVTs are all in Inchicore.

well there is still a DVT at heuston that i could see last Sunday(28/2/10)
6105 heuston.JPG

along with various other mk3s in scattered formation
6105 heuston1.JPG

Captain Chaos

Another Mk3 gen van came back south by 082 yesterday.
http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p63646050.html

Interesting to see these in action on the Enterprise sets from April if all goes to plan.

dowlingm

The only thing we have to keep in mind about IE's future fleet is what's going to happen post-interconnector. In theory, IE are supposed to be shopping for 400+ EMUs which will replace a certain amount of DMU running in the GDA. Together with the incoming commuter fit 22000s there should mean a certain amount of surplus in the 29000 and 2800 fleets. There's Pace and Navan but that will only suck up so many sets.

I'm starting to think that IE have been told to asset strip in order to pay the bill for the next batch of 22Ks, thus the disposal of the 1x1s rather than refit them, the rumoured disposal of the nonPP 201s and so on. If that's the case, then IE really have no money to be going around refitting Mk3s.

Captain Chaos

IE put a tender out last year for a large mixed order of EMUs and DMUs. The DART fleet will likely need to double in the next 5-7 years, if all the current plans go ahead and on time. The 2600s are starting to show their age already and the 2700s are not to far behind. The extra DMUs will need to replace all them or rather fill the gap left by the 29ks as they get cascaded down.

IE are supposed to be shopping for powercar type locos to top and tail the Mk4 sets and possible the DD sets or it's replacement the 8 Mk4 DVGTs and the 4 DD DVTs are to go aswell. All 201s are supposed to be gone except a few for freight. I'd be amazed if the above plans happened in the short term if the above but you wouldn't know.

etchyed

Captain Chaos wrote: »

IE put a tender out last year for a large mixed order of EMUs and DMUs. The DART fleet will likely need to double in the next 5-7 years, if all the current plans go ahead and on time. The 2600s are starting to show their age already and the 2700s are not to far behind. The extra DMUs will need to replace all them or rather fill the gap left by the 29ks as they get cascaded down.

IE are supposed to be shopping for powercar type locos to top and tail the Mk4 sets and possible the DD sets or it's replacement the 8 Mk4 DVGTs and the 4 DD DVTs are to go aswell. All 201s are supposed to be gone except a few for freight. I'd be amazed if the above plans happened in the short term if the above but you wouldn't know.

Can the Mk4 DVTs not be used with new power cars?

Captain Chaos

etchyed wrote: »

Can the Mk4 DVTs not be used with new power cars?

In the long run, I believe IE want a system like in the UK with the Class 43s and the Intercity 125 trains. 125mph trains when the main lines to Cork gets upgraded. We can hope.

As it is now if the loco fails the set has to be rescued. If its top and tailed you get better performance, less ware on the locos because you don't need to run them as hard and if one fails the other can still power the train like the 43s do in the UK.

garfieldsghost

Captain Chaos wrote: »

In the long run, I believe IE want a system like in the UK with the Class 43s and the Intercity 125 trains. 125mph trains when the main lines to Cork gets upgraded. We can hope.

As it is now if the loco fails the set has to be rescued. If its top and tailed you get better performance, less ware on the locos because you don't need to run them as hard and if one fails the other can still power the train like the 43s do in the UK.

I believe the DVTs were designed so that they could be converted to powered units at a later stage...

dowlingm

There's still a question mark over what happens with Enterprise. They can't ramp up service given the number of sets on hand. NIR don't have anything suitable to offer except the orphan Gatwick set and they seem to have given up on making that DBSO work as a DVT.

What could happen as a reduction in the number of Mk4 sets on Dublin-Cork on a permanent basis, with one or more being sent to Enterprise and one as a hot spare for both lines to be shuttled through the Phoenix Park tunnel as required. IE are already running 22Ks Dublin-Cork off-peak right now.

As with everything Enterprisey though it depends on both NIR and IE agreeing which is what has hobbled the damn thing for years.

As for powercars - when it comes to long term replacement I'd like to see dual power explored, along the lines of the ALP-45DP but lighter (given the likely power requirement is lower and you don't need such a big transformer for 1.5kV compared to 25kV). If there is a long term ambition to electrify to Drogheda that puts a big chunk of the Dublin-Belfast line under OHLE, and in electric mode it's likely to be able to keep up with the suburbans because of the immediate power electric mode offers over the torque curve of diesel-electric mode.

Some of the early 22Ks are fitted with TPWS/AWS so can be run north of the border (but has NIR cleared them?) so that's a theoretical possibility. But these happen to be the 3 car sets with no catering facilities.

I haven't read it but have been told that in a recent CIÉ circular, multiple working of 071s and 201s is now permitted. Could we see a pair of 201s on the Cork line?

Jonathan

Why can't they just use some of the idle 201s in place of the MK4 DVTs?

Jonathan

Jonathan wrote: »

Why can't they just use some of the idle 201s in place of the MK4 DVTs?

Without the DVT they'd have to run on HEP. It is a permissible configuration for Mk4s in emergencies but the power output is halved.

Jonathan

Karsini wrote: »

Without the DVT they'd have to run on HEP. It is a permissible configuration for Mk4s in emergencies but the power output is halved.

Oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that. Then you're into Enterprise reliability. :pac:

dowlingm

If top/tail was okay by RSC then you could have a loco with motive power removed and a 500hp generator installed as a HEP/control cab, as Amtrak does with some of their old F40PHs which they call APCUs. The motive power then would be supplied from the other end as push-pull.

However, I'm not sure the rails would take a pounding from 2 full weight 201s moving at 100mph all that well...

lord lucan

Here's a sight for sore eyes in 2010,a rake of MKIII's headed by an 071!!

Photo from 'The Wanderers' fotopic site here: http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/p63862081.html

josephgriffin

Is that a citygold carraige I see in the above photo? What a shame to see the Mark 3,s treated this way. Someone needs a big kick in the ass for this!

lord lucan

josephgriffin wrote: »

Is that a citygold carraige I see in the above photo? What a shame to see the Mark 3,s treated this way. Someone needs a big kick in the ass for this!

Apparently there is a CityGold coach amongst the rake.

Judgement Day

lord lucan wrote: »

Apparently there is a CityGold coach amongst the rake.

But no Cravens.... with steam heating....boo hoo hoo!!:(:(:(

lord lucan

Judgement Day wrote: »

But no Cravens.... with steam heating....boo hoo hoo!!:(:(:(

I feel your pain.:(

Oscar Bravo

The mentioned set of mk3s 7615 7104 7102 7129 7411 7113 7121 7146,will be out and about on the 24th of April on a railtour to the WRC,proceeds given to the railway childrens fund.an 071 will haul the rake.