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New Parkzone Radian dead as a dodo

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  • 27-02-2010 3:35pm
    #1
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭


    After months of fun with a relatively cheap 2 channel rc plane from maplins, I decided to buy a real plane and went for a Parkzone Radian. It arrived yesterday and I put it together, installed the battery and checked to see if the servos and prop were working which they were.

    So we headed out today (me and the kids) to fly it and nothing happened when I switched on the controller. So I removed the battery and plugged it into the charger but it gave me an alternating red and green light and manic beeping which according to the charger is an "error". I tried to charge the battery pack a number of times but no joy. I put it back into the Radian but still nothing.

    Any idea whats gone wrong? It worked out of the box but apparently died overnight. It hasn't been flown or crashed btw. My test of the prop and the servos was a static test in my living room.

    To say I'm annoyed would be an understatement. My cheapo €40 rc plane worked every time while this €230 plane is dead.

    Am I missing something small here or have I a dead battery, receiver or controller problem?

    Help would be appreciated.


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    #2
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    The battery charger could have been torched by plugging into 240V mains instead of 110V US mains? In that case your charger would be dead, the battery uncharged, and the rest not functioning?
    It's just a possibility, not a diagnosis, but may be the source of your problem. Diagnosis involves instruments - measuring the battery voltage and the charger output.
    You say it worked out of the box - had you charged the battery at that point?
    Now begins the long distance backup process .... hope you didn't get it from the other side of the planet. You'll realise why if you have to post bulky components back for warranty.

    Try measuring the battery if you can. Freshly off the charger it should measure 4.2 volts x the number of cells in the pack. At half charge it should be 3.7V per cell. So a 3S battery will be 4.2 x 3 = 12.6 off the charger, and 11.1V at half charge. The state of the battery tells if the charger is bad.


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    #3
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    I was using the supplied 12v charger that came with the plane so I was trying to charge it in the car.

    I've just been informed by pm that as I left the battery in the plane overnight, this might have drained the battery to the point that I've ruined it.


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    #4
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    ... I've just been informed by pm that as I left the battery in the plane overnight, this might have drained the battery to the point that I've ruined it.

    Lithium polymer batteries hate being emptied. So it could be the cause.
    But with a plane, the receiver is listening while powered up. So surely you would have heard the servos twitching once the transmitter had been switched off? It's kinda hard to hear that buzzing sound and not realise the model is still "live".


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    #5
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    coolwings wrote: »
    Lithium polymer batteries hate being emptied. So it could be the cause.
    But with a plane, the receiver is listening while powered up. So surely you would have heard the servos twitching once the transmitter had been switched off? It's kinda hard to hear that buzzing sound and not realise the model is still "live".

    Well the spectrum servos dont twitch while waiting for signal, they may move to the failsafe position but they will then sit silent, the battery being left in overnight is the cause, i did it myself with the radian by accident and it was goodbye battery, lithium batteries are rendered useless by being depleted.


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    #6
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    I was using the supplied 12v charger that came with the plane so I was trying to charge it in the car.

    I've just been informed by pm that as I left the battery in the plane overnight, this might have drained the battery to the point that I've ruined it.

    It is possible it may not be ruined, if at 3 volts per cell or just below then the lipo chargers wont recognise them as a battery, and my thunderpower charger wont accept them below 3.3volts per cell, but they can be manually revived by connecting a variable power supply through an ammeter and very carefully bring to 3.3 volt per cell at about 100ma and then charge with lipo charger. This takes a bit of experience to do and the battery wont last as many cycles as it would have if not overdischarged, but i have managed it a few times. If its below 2.5 volts per cell unloaded then its unlikely to be useable again.

    As i said, about 8 months ago i ruined our radian battery by leaving in the glider overnight by accident, and it was only fit for the bin. I actually did it a second time a few weeks ago and it did survive this time, because it was fully charged and so it did`t go too far below the lowest recommended voltage. I was still surprised it was ok, as the first one was totally flat.


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    #7
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    coolwings wrote: »
    The battery charger could have been torched by plugging into 240V mains instead of 110V US mains? In that case your charger would be dead, the battery uncharged, and the rest not functioning?
    It's just a possibility, not a diagnosis, but may be the source of your problem. Diagnosis involves instruments - measuring the battery voltage and the charger output.
    You say it worked out of the box - had you charged the battery at that point?
    Now begins the long distance backup process .... hope you didn't get it from the other side of the planet. You'll realise why if you have to post bulky components back for warranty.

    Try measuring the battery if you can. Freshly off the charger it should measure 4.2 volts x the number of cells in the pack. At half charge it should be 3.7V per cell. So a 3S battery will be 4.2 x 3 = 12.6 off the charger, and 11.1V at half charge. The state of the battery tells if the charger is bad.

    How does the state of the battery now tell us the charger is bad? Battery was left in glider all night, so if tested and shows below 9 volts, its more likely because it was overdischarged, not because the charger was bad.

    Lets not make a complex problem from a simple one, obviously you dont advocate ordering over the net, long distance backup? Its a simple battery left in the glider overnight problem, not rocket science. Having said that, i have not seen the battery myself so nothing is certain.

    I remember buying a 1/8th car in a certain shop 3 years ago and having to still go on the net for the backup as the parts were never available. Every week the same thing, it will be here next week, next week, next week. Parts arrive, o your part was`t in the delivery. I dont have a problem with that at all, but i also dont have a problem ordering it long distance and having it in the car in a few days.


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    #8
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    coolwings wrote: »
    The battery charger could have been torched by plugging into 240V mains instead of 110V US mains? In that case your charger would be dead, the battery uncharged, and the rest not functioning?
    It's just a possibility, not a diagnosis, but may be the source of your problem. Diagnosis involves instruments - measuring the battery voltage and the charger output.
    You say it worked out of the box - had you charged the battery at that point?
    Now begins the long distance backup process .... hope you didn't get it from the other side of the planet. You'll realise why if you have to post bulky components back for warranty.

    Try measuring the battery if you can. Freshly off the charger it should measure 4.2 volts x the number of cells in the pack. At half charge it should be 3.7V per cell. So a 3S battery will be 4.2 x 3 = 12.6 off the charger, and 11.1V at half charge. The state of the battery tells if the charger is bad.

    Lipo batteries come half charged, it was ok when he put into glider, and was dead the next day havin never been unplugged from the glider ESC. So its fairly certain what happened is`t it? The radian comes with a 12 volt car cigarette lighter powered charger. An american 110 volt plug is tricky to plug into our 230volt sockets, but it does`t come with mains adaptor anyway.


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    #9
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    After months of fun with a relatively cheap 2 channel rc plane from maplins, I decided to buy a real plane and went for a Parkzone Radian. It arrived yesterday and I put it together, installed the battery and checked to see if the servos and prop were working which they were.

    So we headed out today (me and the kids) to fly it and nothing happened when I switched on the controller. So I removed the battery and plugged it into the charger but it gave me an alternating red and green light and manic beeping which according to the charger is an "error". I tried to charge the battery pack a number of times but no joy. I put it back into the Radian but still nothing.

    Any idea whats gone wrong? It worked out of the box but apparently died overnight. It hasn't been flown or crashed btw. My test of the prop and the servos was a static test in my living room.

    To say I'm annoyed would be an understatement. My cheapo €40 rc plane worked every time while this €230 plane is dead.

    Am I missing something small here or have I a dead battery, receiver or controller problem?

    Help would be appreciated.

    Just as matter of interest i tested how much current the radian takes while battery is in and motor not running, as it was when you left battery in. The current draw was 0.055 amps or 55ma (miliamps), very low. However, if you consider the lipo comes half charged, its a 1300mah (miliampere hour) so half charged is around 650mah.

    Therefore 650 mah/ 55ma is 11.8 hours, so after 11.8 hours the battery is slowly over discharging. Now if you ran motor for a while before you left battery still in glider this will drastically reduce the time before you reach the lower limit.

    With motor running it takes 20 amps, so a 1 minute test would be 20,000ma/60= 333mah less than half charge, so you would only have 6 hours or less before reaching the discharge limit.
    Do you know the times?


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    #10
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    You hit the nail on the head there as I did run the motor for a few bursts to "feel the power" from it compared to my cheap rc plane. I also tested the servos a few times. All of this put a drag on the battery's power supply which I had installed straight out of the box and I never thought about charging it beforehand. The battery was left in overnight (i.e. plane assembled at 8pm and motor/servos checked) and I tried to fly it at 1pm the next day so it was 17 hours in teh plane being drained so I guess it was completely drained.


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    #11
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Anyway, after all that, it was confirmed as a dead battery as a result of being left in the glider overnight.


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    #12
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    Yes it was a dead battery so it's a lesson learned. I've ordered a new battery and hopefully will have it by the weekend. I still wonder why there was no warning in the manual about not leaving a battery in the plane as it could be ruined by over discharging


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    #13
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    Yes it was a dead battery so it's a lesson learned. I've ordered a new battery and hopefully will have it by the weekend. I still wonder why there was no warning in the manual about not leaving a battery in the plane as it could be ruined by over discharging

    Whats really needed is an audible lipo alarm with flashing led, they can be gotten.

    Bring it to navan if you dont have battery at weekend and fly it here,


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    #14
    michaelrc1
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭michaelrc1


    could you please tell me where you bought your radian thank you


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    #15
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    michaelrc1 wrote: »
    could you please tell me where you bought your radian thank you

    I bought my sons one at www.squadronleader.co.uk

    Im not sure if dave got his there or a different shop. Here is another one.
    http://www.modelmaniacsonline.co.uk/products.php?ProductID=7049&CatID=7&SubCatID=120

    Have you flown before, i cant remember if you said you did, i met dave because he left his flight battery in the glider overnight by mistake the first day he got his and that ruins the battery so i let him use my one to test his glider out.


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    #16
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    I bought mine from modelmaniacs as squadron leader were out if stock. It's a great plane to learn on as it's very forgiving when you make a mistake. I take mine up high in an almost vertical climb until it stalls. It will then fall back to earth but will level itself out allowing you to regain control. It has a low landing speed which makes it easy to land. I'm now able to catch it as well.


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    #17
    michaelrc1
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭michaelrc1


    Prosperous Dave wrote: »
    I bought mine from modelmaniacs as squadron leader were out if stock. It's a great plane to learn on as it's very forgiving when you make a mistake. I take mine up high in an almost vertical climb until it stalls. It will then fall back to earth but will level itself out allowing you to regain control. It has a low landing speed which makes it easy to land. I'm now able to catch it as well.
    Thank you for your reply it is nice to hear you are getting on so well with the radian I looked at modelmaniacs and squadron leader their prices are very good


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