Stoke City V Arsenal Match Thread. Live SS1

KittyeeTrix

adox wrote: »

I think even the most fanatical of Arsenal fans, given 24 hours or so, will admit that it wasn't a malicious challenge.

Horrible injury for Ramsey and I really do wish him a speedy recovery, but anyone that knows anyhing about football knows that there was no malice or recklessness in that tackle IMO.

Absolutely, Ramsey came in as Shawcross lashed into the ball. No intent whatsoever at all and anyone who sees intent is either biased or blind!!!

citytillidie

redout wrote: »

Anyone know why this match is on Sky instead of ESPN ?

ESPN have Spurs V Everton and because Everton played on Thursday night they swapped the games about

SlickRic

The law in question makes no reference towards the height of the feet, positioning of the players, the intent of the tackling player so your arguments in that context are of no relevance.

Shawcross made a tackle that left another player seriously injured as a direct result. It was not an accidental coming together, or an awkward landing etc, it was a deliberate attempt to win the ball that placed excessive force on a players standing leg and seriously compromised his safety. That clearly fulfils the requirements for a sending off offence as listed above.[/QUOTE]

i don't think we're going to agree.

it was not malicious or excessive IMO.

what i will say, is the force with which he went in is displayed on umpteen occasions in umpteen matches every week.

we can look forward to a lot of 8 v 8 matches in future so, if your interpretation of that law is continually applied.

kryogen

it takes a lot less force to break a leg when the leg in question is stuck straight in the ground

apologies i knew it was an extract from the rule book, worded my reply wrong

my point stays the same though

it was certainly not a brutal tackle and it would be very hard to say it was excessive either

he never left the ground, he clearly goes for the ball etc...

citytillidie

redout wrote: »

Anyone know why this match is on Sky instead of ESPN ?

redout wrote: »

Talking through your arse brother.

3 weeks ago Felipe had a horror tackle and his leg was hanging off.

Thing was like at 90 degrees!

Sky showed it live and the replay about a dozen times.

Thats not a Sky production they take the pictures from Spanish TV and are not in control of whats shown.

Match today was a Sky production ie they are in control of whats shown

OPENROAD

adox wrote: »

I think even the most fanatical of Arsenal fans, given 24 hours or so, will admit that it wasn't a malicious challenge.

Horrible injury for Ramsey and I really do wish him a speedy recovery, but anyone that knows anyhing about football knows that there was no malice or recklessness in that tackle IMO.

I don't think people are saying it was malicious, in general only a few tackles are, tackles can be late and not malicious.

citytillidie

OPENROAD wrote: »

Woldn't blame him though, I'm sure Rafa would be the same

Yep just like he did when Pienaar nearly broke Mash leg and only got a yellow card

leninbenjamin

SlickRic wrote: »

what i will say, is the force with which he went in is displayed on umpteen occasions in umpteen matches every week.

But they didn't break legs. That's the difference that has forced the referee's hand. Because of the end result this is one of the few cases where it is clearly apparent that excessive force was used.

KittyeeTrix

OPENROAD wrote: »

I don't think people are saying it was malicious, in general only a few tackles are, tackles can be late and not malicious.

Shawcross's tackle wasn't late, it was Ramseys tackle that was late!! He crushed in for the ball as Shawcross struck out for the ball

L'prof

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Shawcross's tackle wasn't late, it was Ramseys tackle that was late!! He crushed in for the ball as Shawcross struck out for the ball

I thought Ramsey got to the ball to be honest, just unlucky for both really!

leninbenjamin

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Shawcross's tackle wasn't late, it was Ramseys tackle that was late!! He crushed in for the ball as Shawcross struck out for the ball

Hard to say that fully without seeing replays. When I saw it I thought it looked like Shawcross just lashed out in desperation when he realised he'd been beaten to the ball.

KittyeeTrix

jasonorr wrote: »

I thought Ramsey got to the ball to be honest, just unlucky for both really!

From what I saw he did, just as Shawcross went to lash it!!!
That's my point.. unfortunate but not intentional:)

SantryRed

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Hard to say that fully without seeing replays. When I saw it I thought it looked like Shawcross just lashed out in desperation when he realised he'd been beaten to the ball.

Nah, they both just literally went straight for the ball full lash. Ramsey got there a split second first. Something you see week in week out in all leagues, consequences are never as harsh though

recylingbin

SlickRic wrote: »

apologies for expecting it.

when we go to a football match we don't slip into a parallel universe where it shouldn't exist.

fair play to most of the Stoke fans though, they genuinely did display it in abundance.

It's a football crowd, not the women's institute. Did you expect the Stoke fans to organise a cake sale for him?

Again, the stoke fans saw their player being sent off. They didn't know Ramsey had broken his leg.

L'prof

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

From what I saw he did, just as Shawcross went to lash it!!!
That's my point.. unfortunate but not intentional:)

Your point was that Ramsey was late but if you agree that he got to the ball, then he couldn't have been late...

L'prof

recylingbin wrote: »

It's a football crowd, not the women's institute. Did you expect the Stoke fans to organise a cake sale for him?

Again, the stoke fans saw their player being sent off. They didn't know Ramsey had broken his leg.

Really???

SlickRic

recylingbin wrote: »

It's a football crowd, not the women's institute. Did you expect the Stoke fans to organise a cake sale for him?

yes, because the only people who don't tell injured players to 'f*ck off' and chant deragotory things about the fact it's a really bad one, are those at a women's institute.

:rolleyes:

it's not about being a 'woman', it's about not turning a football stadium into a society of yobs.

anyway, i'm leaving it now. i've made my point and you're entitled to your view on what we should expect the etiquette of the football fan to be.

recylingbin

jasonorr wrote: »

Really???

The quintissential post on that thread

Put 27,000 people in once place, anywhere on earth, and you're bound to get a couple of hundred *****.

leninbenjamin

There are always ***** in a crowd. I wouldn't hold the chanting against Stoke and it's fans. Majority of the stadium clapped Ramsey off the field.

leninbenjamin

leninbenjamin wrote: »

There are always ***** in a crowd. I wouldn't hold the chanting against Stoke and it's fans. Majority of the stadium clapped Ramsey off the field.

Very true, they are at every club.

recylingbin

leninbenjamin wrote: »

There are always ***** in a crowd. I wouldn't hold the chanting against Stoke and it's fans. Majority of the stadium clapped Ramsey off the field.

bingo.

L'prof

recylingbin wrote: »

The quintissential post on that thread

I agree with that but, I was responding to your post...which you've ignored...

Radharc na Sleibhte

Having seen a proper replay on MOTD, have to say it probably is fair to say there was no intent to do Ramsey, just unlucky, as it was with Eduardos, that he had all his weight on his standing leg that took all the force of the challenge. Don't accept it was't very late though. Still think it was late and entirely warranted the sending off.

I had a friend over at the game. Section of Stoke fans were singing "he' only got one leg". Nice people.

OPENROAD

MikeySligo wrote: »

Having seen a proper replay on MOTD, have to say it probably is fair to say there was no intent to do Ramsey, just unlucky, as it was with Eduardos, that he had all his weight on his standing leg that took all the force of the challenge. Don't accept it was't very late though. Still think it was late and entirely warranted the sending off.

I had a friend over at the game. Section of Stoke fans were singing "he' only got one leg". Nice people.

Would agree, still a red card for me.

beer enigma

Lads I was at the match - not long home - and I'm Arsenal born and bred

Shawcross was late & high, but it was a high speed collision - from what I saw, I dont think he intended it - yes it was a red card, but if you saw him after (not just what the TV shows you) - he was distraught.

We play a continental style of football which is fine passing rather than Chopper Harris or Greavie full boot - opposition know that they can disrupt us by putting in the boot, but I think its gone too far. I saw Cesc's interview on Sky & agree - three breaks in five years speaks volumes.

As for the Stoke crowd - dont believe what the TV shows you - 99% of them applauded Ramsay & from those I spoke to were genuinely horrified at it.

His leg didnt appear twisted so hopefully a clean break - I lost count of the number of stoke fans coming up to us after the match saying they felt for Ramsay - I respect that

KittyeeTrix

jasonorr wrote: »

Your point was that Ramsey was late but if you agree that he got to the ball, then he couldn't have been late...

He got his foot to the ball after Shawcross commited to a fierce lash of the ball.
That's what I saw,
I may have seen it wrong but I can only say what I saw!!
I say he was late , don't know if that is the right phrase but definitely Shawcross lashed at the ball and not at Ramsey's leg

I'm no expert, but that's what it looked like to me

L'prof

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

He got his foot to the ball after Shawcross commited to a fierce lash of the ball.
That's what I saw,
I may have seen it wrong but I can only say what I saw!!
I say he was late , don't know if that is the right phrase but definitely Shawcross lashed at the ball and not at Ramsey's leg

I'm no expert, but that's what it looked like to me

I think your wording is wrong maybe, we'll leave it at that!

beer enigma

Guys I was close enough, he wasn't studs up - a 'lash' is the best description ive heard

it was clumsy, red card def, but no intent

L'prof

Andip wrote: »

Guys I was close enough, he wasn't studs up - a 'lash' is the best description ive heard

it was clumsy, red card def, but no intent

That's what I took from it anyway, must be awful to see that happen at a match.

beer enigma

jasonorr wrote: »

That's what I took from it anyway, must be awful to see that happen at a match.

Horrible thing is you cant change channel - its there in front of you, only thing I can say is it looked a straight break fingers crossed.

By bizzare coincidence, I was at the Birmingham Match when Eduardo broke his leg - that one looked far worse

SlickRic

Andip wrote: »

By bizzare coincidence, I was at the Birmingham Match when Eduardo broke his leg - that one looked far worse

have you thought of a different way of spending your money?

beer enigma

SlickRic wrote: »

have you thought of a different way of spending your money?

Yeh Leyton Orient looked attractive :pac:

Redzer7

Just seen the tackle , delighted we came from behind though.

Sherifu

No malice in the tackle, slightly late but no intent imo.

Horrible to see these kind of injuries happen.

Redzer7

Ah I agree absolutely no malice, just annoyed though, always seems to happen to us .

Jigga

Fair play to Glenn Whelan for comforting Ramsey, a true class act, proud to have him playing for Ireland ahead of twats like Stephen Ireland. Poor Ramsey though, hope he can recover.

8-10

SlickRic wrote: »

apologies for expecting it.

when we go to a football match we don't slip into a parallel universe where it shouldn't exist.

fair play to most of the Stoke fans though, they genuinely did display it in abundance.

recylingbin wrote: »

It's a football crowd, not the women's institute. Did you expect the Stoke fans to organise a cake sale for him?

I'd expect them to organise a cake disco if you're talking about abundance.

Redzer7

Yeah seen Glenn Whelan lifting his head up so he wouldn't choke on his tongue. Fair play to him.

e-Mo0?

Jigga wrote: »

Fair play to Glenn Whelan for comforting Ramsey, a true class act, proud to have him playing for Ireland ahead of twats like Stephen Ireland. Poor Ramsey though, hope he can recover.

I was wondering who it was, he got over really fast to him, nice to see tbh. Seen alot of the Arsenal lads go straight to the ref after it

Very sad to see it happen to such a young player

Mr.Nice Guy

Jigga wrote: »

Fair play to Glenn Whelan for comforting Ramsey, a true class act, proud to have him playing for Ireland ahead of twats like Stephen Ireland.

That's not very fair as Stephen Ireland actually does extensive charity work and I imagine would have reacted in exactly the same way. Say what you want about other stuff but in this respect we can be proud of our sportsmen.

Here's hoping Ramsey has a successful recovery. I don't think Shawcross meant to 'do' the player as he seems an honest pro. I hope by tomorrow cooler heads will prevail and Wenger will retract his comments on Shawcross which, while understandable given what happened, were nonetheless I think unfair on the lad.

KittyeeTrix

WTF is the reference to Stephen Ireland for????
Sort yourself out man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CR 7

Jigga wrote: »

Fair play to Glenn Whelan for comforting Ramsey, a true class act, proud to have him playing for Ireland ahead of twats like Stephen Ireland. Poor Ramsey though, hope he can recover.

Yeah, I noticed it was a stoke player that had to come over to him, as Fabregas and Campbell, among others, were too busy trying to get Shawcross sent off. :rolleyes:

Redzer7

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Yeah, I noticed it was a stoke player that had to come over to him, as Fabregas and Campbell, among others, were too busy trying to get Shawcross sent off. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

SlickRic

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Yeah, I noticed it was a stoke player that had to come over to him, as Fabregas, were too busy trying to get Shawcross sent off. :rolleyes:

i think you'll find with Cesc in particular, he was merely going off trying not to get sick. he wasn't as much a hero as Whelan was, but he didn't attempt to get Shawcross sent off.

in fact no Arsenal players really did.

they were mostly going mental after seeing the injury, not really at the ref from what I could tell.

Bendtner went straight to Ramsey as soon as he could for instance.

CR 7

SlickRic wrote: »

i think you'll find with Cesc in particular, he was merely going off trying not to get sick. he wasn't as much a hero as Whelan was, but he didn't attempt to get Shawcross sent off.

in fact no Arsenal players really did.

they were mostly going mental after seeing the injury, not really at the ref from what I could tell.

Bendtner went straight to Ramsey as soon as he could for instance.

Yeah, Bendtner was there, in fairness, but there was definitely players gesturing to the ref and such.

dfx-

Just watched the challenge on MOTD now for the first time and tbh it really isn't as disgusting or horrendous as was made out. MOTD (and it appears Sky live too) almost made out like it's the first ever and worst broken leg in football hence needing censure.

It was a terrible accident.

OPENROAD

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Yeah, Bendtner was there, in fairness, but there was definitely players gesturing to the ref and such.

Understandable imo

L'prof

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Yeah, Bendtner was there, in fairness, but there was definitely players gesturing to the ref and such.

I think the gesturing you're thinking of was to the bench to get the doctors on quickly, Campbell maybe shouted at the ref as if to say "What the hell was that?". Apart from that, everyone seemed to be too distraught to be "gesturing to the ref".

Jigga

Here's video of the incident. In fairness don't think any Arsenal players are trying to get Shawcross sent off, looks like Sol Campbell wanted to knock him out though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYOvi_TgJM

OPENROAD

jasonorr wrote: »

I think the gesturing you're thinking of was to the bench to get the doctors on quickly, Campbell maybe shouted at the ref as if to say "What the hell was that?". Apart from that, everyone seemed to be too distraught to be "gesturing to the ref".

Agree, maybe Im reading this incorrectly , but can't believe people are having a go at the Arsenal players.