Stoke City V Arsenal Match Thread. Live SS1

CR 7

OPENROAD wrote: »

Understandable imo

jasonorr wrote: »

I think the gesturing you're thinking of was to the bench to get the doctors on quickly, Campbell maybe shouted at the ref as if to say "What the hell was that?". Apart from that, everyone seemed to be too distraught to be "gesturing to the ref".

Looking at the video again, ye're right. Sol shouting at the ref and Fabregas going to the linesman stood out in my memory for some reason. Maybe from trying to block out the rest.:o

Looks worse every time you see it.:(

jank

OPENROAD wrote: »

Agree, maybe Im reading this incorrectly , but can't believe people are having a go at the Arsenal players.

Unfortunately some people are idiots and always will be such is life.

Poor Ramsey hope he recovers and will be back for Arsenal sometime this year if not next. That's 3 leg breakers in 3 years....that's not bad luck, that's the "put the boot in" attitude that many team adopt against Arsenal. The only thing that will eventually stop it is that it happens to an star england player.

Shawcrosss didnt mean to do him but its all crocodile tears after the fact.

razorblunt

jank wrote: »

Unfortunately some people are idiots and always will be such is life.

Poor Ramsey hope he recovers and will be back for Arsenal sometime this year if not next. That's 3 leg breakers in 3 years....that's not bad luck, that's the "put the boot in" attitude that many team adopt against Arsenal. The only thing that will eventually stop it is that it happens to an star england player.

Shawcrosss didnt mean to do him but its all crocodile tears after the fact.

That's bull you have no idea what was going through Shawcross' mind, a similar scene was Scott Parker for Newcastle when his tackle caused that horrific injury to Jimmy Bullard and he almost couldnt play on, it took both coaches to convince him to stay on.

Just because teams put the boot in does not mean he meant to bend the kids leg in half.

Degag

dfx- wrote: »

Just watched the challenge on MOTD now for the first time and tbh it really isn't as disgusting or horrendous as was made out. MOTD (and it appears Sky live too) almost made out like it's the first ever and worst broken leg in football hence needing censure.

It was a terrible accident.

Was watching MOTD too but in a pub and it was mute. They showed the challenge in slow motion and it looked like Ramsey's foot buckled before the challenge! Did you see it? Obviously since it was mute i couldn't hear what the panelists said but i'm pretty sure the damage was done before Shawcross tackled him.

jank

razorblunt wrote: »

That's bull you have no idea what was going through Shawcross' mind, a similar scene was Scott Parker for Newcastle when his tackle caused that horrific injury to Jimmy Bullard and he almost couldnt play on, it took both coaches to convince him to stay on.

Just because teams put the boot in does not mean he meant to bend the kids leg in half.

You are right, i dont know what goes through shawcross' mind but since you clearly do thanks for the clarification..:rolleyes:

Also please state where I said that he meant to break his leg, don't put words in my mouth like a good man. I fact I clearly said that he did not. Maybe you want to read what you want to hear rather read what I said but thats your issue.

amacachi

Don't really give a **** how he's feeling after the tackle, but everyone's learned after Taylor to look upset.

L'prof

Degag_ wrote: »

Was watching MOTD too but in a pub and it was mute. They showed the challenge in slow motion and it looked like Ramsey's foot buckled before the challenge! Did you see it? Obviously since it was mute i couldn't hear what the panelists said but i'm pretty sure the damage was done before Shawcross tackled him.

Sorry but, what???

Here's the still, foot through shin!!!

Radharc na Sleibhte

Degag_ wrote: »

Was watching MOTD too but in a pub and it was mute. They showed the challenge in slow motion and it looked like Ramsey's foot buckled before the challenge! Did you see it? Obviously since it was mute i couldn't hear what the panelists said but i'm pretty sure the damage was done before Shawcross tackled him.

Lol, yeah, he was running along grand, then next thing...snap....!!!

Eh........no.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Have to back up the support for Glen Whealen.
I thought Ramsay went very still too, don't know did he go into shock or something???

Have a looksie......

Memnoch

I don't care if he feels bad or not.

As far as I'm concerned, any DANGEROUS TACKLE that results in serious injury should get an atuomatic 10-15 match ban. It's the only way to deter people from not regarding other player's safety and stop teams that try to play rugby on a football pitch.

If this is shown to be intentional, the ban should extend to 30 games. Or a 1 year ban.

There is no justification for lunging at players like that, I don't care how passionate you are or how sorry you feel afterwards. If Ramsey is going to be out for X months because of Shawcross's actions, Shawcross doesn't deserve to be able to play for at least the same period of time.

Radharc na Sleibhte

I don't think it was intentional, but the way he went to go into the tackle ie to kick the ball as hard as he could probably thinking Ramsey would go to ground was over the top. Ramsay nicked the ball away with his standing like, just like Eduardo did, which got the full kick off Shawcross. Still think Shawcross had time to pull out. He's still only pulling his leg back when Ramsay won the ball.

Can't stop thinking about it. Thinking of it all night.

Any concrete word on the injury or when can we expect that?

Leiva

MikeySligo wrote: »

I don't think it was intentional, but the way he went to go into the tackle ie to kick the ball as hard as he could probably thinking Ramsey would go to ground was over the top. Ramsay nicked the ball away with his standing like, just like Eduardo did, which got the full kick off Shawcross. Still think Shawcross had time to pull out. He's still only pulling his leg back when Ramsay won the ball.

Can't stop thinking about it. Thinking of it all night.

Any concrete word on the injury or when can we expect that?

Yea me to ... Been trolling the web for an update on his injury , no luck .
I seen an image and it looked like the tibia had broken skin above the ankle but also just below the knee , I hope I am wrong.
If that was the case then in could be career threatening

Cisse had similar and only the quick intervention of the Liverpool physio saved his leg ( yes his leg) due to the position of the breaks and the blood supply.

Here's hoping for quick recovery Aaron

M.

Pepe LeFrits

I think Fabregas and Campbell's reaction was more of a sort of 'I can't believe this has happened again,' sort of thing, which I was feeling myself. It's obvious Shawcross didn't mean to injure Ramsey, but I do think this sort of thing is the consequence of a culture of 'putting it up em', specifically Arsenal. Very few players out there are the type to injure a fellow player, but it's always going to be more likely with that attitude.

Anyway, get well soon Aaron. He is/was my favourite young player at the club but it looks as though his route to superstardom is going to be longer than expected.

SantryRed

Memnoch wrote: »

I don't care if he feels bad or not.

As far as I'm concerned, any DANGEROUS TACKLE that results in serious injury should get an atuomatic 10-15 match ban. It's the only way to deter people from not regarding other player's safety and stop teams that try to play rugby on a football pitch.

If this is shown to be intentional, the ban should extend to 30 games. Or a 1 year ban.

There is no justification for lunging at players like that, I don't care how passionate you are or how sorry you feel afterwards. If Ramsey is going to be out for X months because of Shawcross's actions, Shawcross doesn't deserve to be able to play for at least the same period of time.

But it wasn't really a dangerous tackle, tbh I don't even think it was tackle! He went to strike through the ball and Ramsey got their first, the injury occured because Ramsey's studs had lodged in the ground. If you're going to give a 15 match ban for that then there will never be fifty fifty challenges in football again, it was just an unfortunate accident.

Pepe LeFrits

Ricardo Fuller before the game:

"Every time [Didier] Drogba roughs them up, Chelsea beat Arsenal. Bolton used to do it under Big Sam - Kevin Davies and all those guys roughed Arsenal up too. We've got to hit them with a bit of aggression"

That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Arseblog today makes very good points

Frisbee

Memnoch wrote: »

I don't care if he feels bad or not.

As far as I'm concerned, any DANGEROUS TACKLE that results in serious injury should get an atuomatic 10-15 match ban. It's the only way to deter people from not regarding other player's safety and stop teams that try to play rugby on a football pitch.

If this is shown to be intentional, the ban should extend to 30 games. Or a 1 year ban.

There is no justification for lunging at players like that, I don't care how passionate you are or how sorry you feel afterwards. If Ramsey is going to be out for X months because of Shawcross's actions, Shawcross doesn't deserve to be able to play for at least the same period of time.

That is complete and utter BS. It was an awful challenge that has left a very young promising player with a horrendous injury, but there isn't an iota of thought in my head that Shawcross went in to do that on purpose. It was a bad accident, nothing more. Sure just look at Shawcross' reaction, if he had really meant to hurt Ramsey do you think he would have walked off the field in tears?

I didn't see it live, was in work but got a text about it and people coming in from the pub next door were saying it was horrible. My first though when I heard it was : "Again?"

Wenger didn't cover himself in glory with his post match comments but there not as controversial as people are making out. When he said 'it's no coincidence' I agree with that. However I don't think we get these injuries my opposing managers telling there players to go out and cause harm. It's proven that if you go out and get in Arsenal's faces you have a better chance of winning, so teams play rougher against Arsenal, nothing wrong with that.

Delighted with the three points but tbh I would rather have drawn 1-1 than have that injury happen.

Hope he can make a full recovery.

Memnoch

Frisbee wrote: »

That is complete and utter BS. It was an awful challenge that has left a very young promising player with a horrendous injury, but there isn't an iota of thought in my head that Shawcross went in to do that on purpose. It was a bad accident, nothing more. Sure just look at Shawcross' reaction, if he had really meant to hurt Ramsey do you think he would have walked off the field in tears?

I didn't see it live, was in work but got a text about it and people coming in from the pub next door were saying it was horrible. My first though when I heard it was : "Again?"

Wenger didn't cover himself in glory with his post match comments but there not as controversial as people are making out. When he said 'it's no coincidence' I agree with that. However I don't think we get these injuries my opposing managers telling there players to go out and cause harm. It's proven that if you go out and get in Arsenal's faces you have a better chance of winning, so teams play rougher against Arsenal, nothing wrong with that.

Delighted with the three points but tbh I would rather have drawn 1-1 than have that injury happen.

Hope he can make a full recovery.

There is everything wrong with it. I'm interested in watching a game of football, not of "lets rough the other team up by kicking them every chance we get."

It's total BS as far as I'm concerned and I don't care which team is doing it or having it done to them. Referees need to clamp down a lot more and be a lot stricter.

And as I said before. Any dangerous tackles that cause serious injury should be punished HARSHLY. They might not go out there looking to "injure players," but when you go out there looking to "rough them up," this is going to be the inevitable result. Hence why Arsenal end up with so many injuries. Now i'm no Arsenal supporter, but I'm a football fan and I don't see this kind of nonsense as having any place in football.

Maybe if teams were discouraged from behaving in this way we would get some actual games of football as opposed to who can foul the most and get away with it.

SantryRed

Memnoch wrote: »

There is everything wrong with it. I'm interested in watching a game of football, not of "lets rough the other team up by kicking them every chance we get."

It's total BS as far as I'm concerned and I don't care which team is doing it or having it done to them. Referees need to clamp down a lot more and be a lot stricter.

And as I said before. Any dangerous tackles that cause serious injury should be punished HARSHLY. They might not go out there looking to "injure players," but when you go out there looking to "rough them up," this is going to be the inevitable result. Hence why Arsenal end up with so many injuries. Now i'm no Arsenal supporter, but I'm a football fan and I don't see this kind of nonsense as having any place in football.

Maybe if teams were discouraged from behaving in this way we would get some actual games of football as opposed to who can foul the most and get away with it.

Do you play football? 11-a-side like?

PHB

I'm sorry, but I dont think that was a roughing up tackle. I think that was a 50-50 that Shawcross, like any good CB, went into it in full power. Unfortunately, the accident occured, but it was a 50-50 that most defenders would do the same thing for.

SantryRed

Was looking on youtube for 50/50 tackles and this is the only one I could find: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHuHyriRHfo Poor quality I know.

But my point is that the tackle in that video is nearly the exact same as the Ramsey one bar Ramsey tipped the ball away and his foot was planted in the ground. These tackles happen all the time in football and it's just unfortunate and an awful accident.

m@cc@

The tackle was not proportionate to the injury, believe Shawcross was genuinely sorry for the injury. What about Campbell, eh? Shouting and screaming like an idiot instead of maybe seeing that the younger kids were ok. Really the kinda bloke you'd want around in a crisis.

razorblunt

mixednuts wrote: »

Yea me to ... Been trolling the web for an update on his injury , no luck .
I seen an image and it looked like the tibia had broken skin above the ankle but also just below the knee , I hope I am wrong.
If that was the case then in could be career threatening

Cisse had similar and only the quick intervention of the Liverpool physio saved his leg ( yes his leg) due to the position of the breaks and the blood supply.

Here's hoping for quick recovery Aaron

M.

Was that not his shinguard, getting pushed out of position?

jank

Yeap many many good points raised by Arseblog.

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

Frisbee

Video of the tackle and about 5 minutes after.

What a lot of Arsenal players were moaning to the ref about after Shawcross had already been sent off I don't know, what else could the ref do at that stage?

Fair play to Whelan for getting to Ramsey so quickly. Bendtner and Eboue too.

And Sorenson also, I know it's only an aside but he recognised how fcuked up Shawcross was and at least tried to have a word with him.

Sherifu

MikeySligo wrote: »

Arseblog today makes very good points

Aye, good read.

m@cc@

jank wrote: »

Yeap many many good points raised by Arseblog.

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

He lost my attention after 'Duh, you are a ****ing moron and you should shut up.' Juvenile reasoning and almost harps back to the 'they're all against us' mentality of Arsenal of old. Placing part of the blame of Ramsey's injury in Sky Sports is just epic. They don't perpetuate a 'myth' that Arsenal 'don't like it up them', Arsenal do that. The lesser teams have had success against Arsenal when they play physical, that's been proven.

Pro. F

Degag_ wrote: »

Was watching MOTD too but in a pub and it was mute. They showed the challenge in slow motion and it looked like Ramsey's foot buckled before the challenge! Did you see it? Obviously since it was mute i couldn't hear what the panelists said but i'm pretty sure the damage was done before Shawcross tackled him.

jasonorr wrote: »

Sorry but, what???

Here's the still, foot through shin!!!

That's a still picture, it can't show the time sequence!

When I saw the replay on MOTD last night it looked like Ramsey's leg was buckling before the tackle to me as well. But they only showed one replay so I wouldn't be sure. Also, it's really unusual for somebody kicking with their instep/toe to do harm to anybody other than themselves. That is a bit of a freak leg break imho and Ramsey was very unfortunate.

Having said all that, it was still a bad tackle and the reason it happened was because of Stoke's gameplan. Imo Shawcross' intent was to kick the player hard, not to win the 50/50. It deserved a red. I think somebody said earlier that Arsenal have had three leg breaks in three years - that is fùcking ridiculous when you think about it. Wenger has every right to be kicking up a fuss and calling it unacceptable. Tony Pulis should get the fùck down off his high horse as well because I can guarantee that he was encouraging his players to go into tackles hard, like that, before the game.

TonyD79

Campbell and Fabregas reaction was a disgrace. It was 50/50 tackle. I remember when Nani took the piss out of the Arsenal players during the 4 nil FA cup win 2 years ago he recieved some awful challenges afterwards. All the "Gooners" were on here the next day saying he deserved it etc. Arsenal look favourites with their run in but I have serious doubts about how they will react to being "roughed up"!

Leiva

razorblunt wrote: »

Was that not his shinguard, getting pushed out of position?

Hope so , still no news but.

Dave!

Any close up/different angle shots of the tackle? Can't really decide if it was reckless of just an accident, based on the live shot

Frisbee

Dave! wrote: »

Any close up/different angle shots of the tackle? Can't really decide if it was reckless of just an accident, based on the live shot

Only what's in the thread unfortunately.

100% accident imo.

Pro. F

jank wrote: »

Yeap many many good points raised by Arseblog.

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

Very good points about how no team likes getting kicked by the opposition, it's not just Arsenal. The myth that if you kick the Arsenal players you are more likely to get a result than if you do the same against the other big teams is surely the reason that they've had so many leg breaks. To all the morons who say "Arsenal can't handle the rough stuff'' here's a question: What team can handle having their players' legs broken?

SDTimeout

m@cc@ wrote: »

The tackle was not proportionate to the tackle, believe Shawcross was genuinely sorry for the injury. What about Campbell, eh? Shouting and screaming like an idiot instead of maybe seeing that the younger kids were ok. Really the kinda bloke you'd want around in a crisis.

They all reacted in the same way, if i put you in Sol's position. When you see a leg hanging by a thread infront of you tell me your going to keep level headed and walk around asking people if they are alright!!?, No you wouldn't.

TonyD79 wrote: »

Campbell and Fabregas reaction was a disgrace. It was 50/50 tackle. I remember when Nani took the piss out of the Arsenal players during the 4 nil FA cup win 2 years ago he recieved some awful challenges afterwards. All the "Gooners" were on here the next day saying he deserved it etc. Arsenal look favourites with their run in but I have serious doubts about how they will react to being "roughed up"!

Explain how it was a disgrace please, Cesc said it himself 3 times in 5 years is not a fluke. I like how your memory is selective by Awful you mean gallas lashing out not to mention Nani had some questionable challenges himself prior to it , who is a dirty player imo.

Your last line is exactly WHY so many Arsenal blogs , fans etc are raring up. Fuller said you beat arsenal by roughing them up being tough with them. Alot of teams have said that now they tried it yesterday we were " roughed up ! " and look how it ended. A 19 year old on the pitch in Agony and we still had the mental stength to win that match. I think Cesc need's a MASSIVE well done for yesterday how he took us across the line like that was amazing.

m@cc@

SDTimeout wrote: »

They all reacted in the same way, if i put you in Sol's position. When you see a leg hanging by a thread infront of you tell me your going to keep level headed and walk around asking people if they are alright!!?, No you wouldn't.

Not necessarily, but he was hardly a shining example. Almost reminiscent of Gallas a couple of years ago.

Frisbee

According to the Guardian two players puked on the pitch:

For Wenger and the Arsenal team, the injury was horribly reminiscent of the compound fracture suffered by Eduardo at Birmingham in 2008 and, as at St Andrew's, Ramsey's plight was such that players from both sides turned away from the sight, and at least two were ill on the pitch.

didn't see that in any of the replays. Did it actually happen or just some sensationalist journalism?

leninbenjamin

Interesting point in the Times. Apparently this is the second time Shawcross has broken a leg, he broke Jeffer's leg in 2007 with a tackle from behind. I'm not for a moment suggest that he's a dirty player, but certainly he seems to be a player who goes in excessively hard.

Royale with Cheese

I always thought Shawcross would be a decent buy for Arsenal if they could somehow pick him up cheap. Probably not going to happen now.

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

According to the Guardian two players puked on the pitch:

didn't see that in any of the replays. Did it actually happen or just some sensationalist journalism?

Verm looked like he could have sick on the MOTD replays, white as a sheet, doubled over and head in his hands, and Fabregas looked like he was gagging too as he walked away from the challenge to the sideline. There are no images of the players getting sick, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

KittyeeTrix

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I always thought Shawcross would be a decent buy for Arsenal if they could somehow pick him up cheap. Probably not going to happen now.

Yep, I'd say that's a definite no-no
I can imagine Wenger crossed it off his "to do list" first thing this morning:D

SDTimeout

Yeah cesc and verm looked distraught. I have to adimt i thought it was cesc when the challenge first happened. Not in anyway saying oh at least it a ramsey. I just froze with shock thinking it was cesc.

Xavi6

Campbell was an absolute disgrace imo.

As a centre half himself he should know that tough tackles can have consequences that are accidental as in this case.

greendom

Frisbee wrote: »

According to the Guardian two players puked on the pitch:



didn't see that in any of the replays. Did it actually happen or just some sensationalist journalism?

i don't know whether it would happen or not but the Guardian is not a "sensationalist" newspaper

Pepe LeFrits

m@cc@ wrote: »

He lost my attention after 'Duh, you are a ****ing moron and you should shut up.' Juvenile reasoning and almost harps back to the 'they're all against us' mentality of Arsenal of old. Placing part of the blame of Ramsey's injury in Sky Sports is just epic. They don't perpetuate a 'myth' that Arsenal 'don't like it up them', Arsenal do that. The lesser teams have had success against Arsenal when they play physical, that's been proven.

*facepalm*

Maybe then if you actually read what he wrote instead of ignoring his points because his awfully rude tone offends you, you'd realise he'd debunked all the rubbish you just posted. Nobody 'likes it up em'. Show me a team who'd appreciate getting three legs broken in less than four years.

adox

m@cc@ wrote: »

Not necessarily, but he was hardly a shining example. Almost reminiscent of Gallas a couple of years ago.

I dont think thats fair. Theres only so many players that can fit around an injured player to comfort him. Also different players would react differently to such a horrific injury, just like anybody would. Some would be straight over to offer comfort and support whereas others would shy away and cover their eyes in horror or whatever.

Cambell did over-react a little bit but its totally understandable, seeing his team mate in such a mess on the ground. I wouldnt pull up any of the Arsenal players on the reaction afterwards.

I still think it was an accident and I think people are totally over-reacting when asking for 15 match games bans etc. I`ve seen far worse tackles week in week out, which are going unpunished, or are only been given yellow cards for which are much more of a problem. The extent of the injury doesnt dictate how bad the challenge was.

I also agree with a poster earlier who raised the question about Ramseys leg buckling slightly when he planted it on the ground. I saw the still shot on match of the day and it looked like his ankle had buckled slightly, with his foot arcing inwards, if that makes sense. I`m not in anyway denying that Shawcross made contact and indeed broke his leg but that may also have contributed to the seriousness of the injury.

L'prof

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Interesting point in the Times. Apparently this is the second time Shawcross has broken a leg, he broke Jeffer's leg in 2007 with a tackle from behind. I'm not for a moment suggest that he's a dirty player, but certainly he seems to be a player who goes in excessively hard.

That's far too harsh, absolutely nothing wrong with that tackle yesterday. Have you watched a video of the Jeffers injury? The fact that it's his first red hard speaks volumes!

Frisbee wrote: »

According to the Guardian two players puked on the pitch:

didn't see that in any of the replays. Did it actually happen or just some sensationalist journalism?

Maybe not puke as such but I thought I saw a couple of players wretch, could be wrong though!

greendom

Xavi6 wrote: »

Campbell was an absolute disgrace imo.

As a centre half himself he should know that tough tackles can have consequences that are accidental as in this case.

He saw a team-mate's leg hanging off. How was his reaction disgraceful ?

Perfectly normal and human imo.

L'prof

Xavi6 wrote: »

Campbell was an absolute disgrace imo.

As a centre half himself he should know that tough tackles can have consequences that are accidental as in this case.

He's a disgrace because he overreacted a few seconds after seeing a 19 year olds leg hanging off???

EDIT: Beat me to it Greendom!

Degag

jasonorr wrote: »

Sorry but, what???

Here's the still, foot through shin!!!

They played it in slow motion last night. It looked like a split second before Shawcross hit him, his leg buckled.

MikeySligo wrote: »

Lol, yeah, he was running along grand, then next thing...snap....!!!

Eh........no.

Do you have any knowledge of football injuries?

I doubt it because you would know that you don't have to be hit by a terrible tackle to get seriously injured. An example from just this past week is Anderson who tore his ligaments and will be out for the season and miss the World Cup. There wasn't a player within 5 feet from him when he got the injury.

L'prof

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a still picture, it can't show the time sequence!

When I saw the replay on MOTD last night it looked like Ramsey's leg was buckling before the tackle to me as well. But they only showed one replay so I wouldn't be sure. Also, it's really unusual for somebody kicking with their instep/toe to do harm to anybody other than themselves. That is a bit of a freak leg break imho and Ramsey was very unfortunate.

That's true but, I've watched it a few times but I don't think it it could have happened otherwise and I don't think Shawcross would have been so upset either!

Degag_ wrote: »

They played it in slow motion last night. It looked like a split second before Shawcross hit him, his leg buckled.

I have it here and I've watched it plenty of times, I don't think it could have happened before he hit him!

EDIT: I've watched the Match of the Day replay at 10% speed, Shawcross broke his leg, 100%!