Aaron Ramsey tackle.

Mr Alan

OPENROAD wrote: »

Is it not disrespectful? Should he not be better than that, and by the way it is a moan at Blackburn, surely you can see that.

Its incredible the nonsense you're talking. I have no problem wit wenger giving out in general about teams being too rough wit his team. but when his comment is directed at a young player who's done **** all wrong and is clearly distraught and he tries to label him as a player with no respect for his opponents, its not on.

Frisbee

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

that picture is fake.should be banned for suggesting it was his own fault.has people any sympathy or class

This is the second time you've said this.

Them picture is not a fake. It's directly after the collision. What grounds have you to say it's a fake?

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

am i Rafa? we're not talking about Rafa.

Rafa was sarcastic, and even if he was upset at the fact Blackburn were being physical i wouldn't agree with him.

.

Of course he was upset, surely you can see that, by the way I agree with him, , he is being hailed a legend and applauded in the match thread, yet Wenger is being rounded on becuase of his comments right after the match in which one of his most promising stars is seriously injured, most managers would react the same, Shawcross didn't intentionally go out to injure Ramsey, no player really does, but it was deserving of a red card, he will serve his ban and will be back playing, Ramsey won't

Carcharodon

I know this is the internet and all and people like to troll their opinions and get feedback off posters cos no one in real life will actually listen to them but why on earth are people arguing whether or not it was a red card offense or not, it is inconsequential at this stage and I am sure Shawcross feels the same.
It is obvious the ref had to give a red card, you put in a tackle which is a little late an a player breaks his leg in such a fashion and you get the line, tough crap, at that stage it is more about the injured player.

Wenger's comments were obviously a little out of order but at the same time understandable, hopefully he can come out with a more objective view on the incident especially on Shawcross but still voice his opinion on his views on how he feels Arsenal are subjected to unfair physicality.

Mr Alan

whenever ramsey comes back is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

he is being hailed a legend and applauded in the match thread, yet Wenger is being rounded on becuase of his comments right after the match in which one of his most promising stars is seriously injured, most managers would react the same,

Rafa is being hailed a legend because he's taking the p*ss out of the situation. and it's funny.

he's not calling for bans, or saying that style of football is against the rules.

i understand frustration at Ramsey's injury, it's horrendous, but baying for Shawcross' specific blood is not on. i'm sorry, that's just my opinion on it.

let's ban Gallas for his Mark Davies tackle then. for worse than Shawcross' ever was.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Shawcross didn't intentionally go out to injure Ramsey, no player really does, but it was deserving of a red card, he will serve his ban and will be back playing, Ramsey won't

not a reason to ban Shawcross for longer.

FUNKY LOVER

eh his head is obviously photoshopped and i have seen the table a hundred times.believe me shawcross clearly gets his shin.bless him hes a lovely lad,even though he broke jeffers ankle two years ago.facepalm...

leninbenjamin

SlickRic wrote: »

let's ban Gallas for his Mark Davies tackle then. for worse than Shawcross' ever was.

For what it's worth, I'd be of the opinion players should be looking at ban lengths in terms of month's for that kind of tackle. 10 games would be what I give. Absolutely despicable that tackle was.

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

Rafa is being hailed a legend because he's taking the p*ss out of the situation. and it's funny.

he's not calling for bans, or saying that style of football is against the rules.

i understand frustration at Ramsey's injury, it's horrendous, but baying for Shawcross' specific blood is not on. i'm sorry, that's just my opinion on it.

let's ban Gallas for his Mark Davies tackle then. for worse than Shawcross' ever was.



not a reason to ban Shawcross for longer.

He is having a moan clearly you can see that but he is being srcastic about it, but as you are a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't expect you to see it(Im not having a go at you by the way )

Managers in general will always see incidents that impact on there players and won't see them in which there players are guilty, all managers are guilty of this as are fans, who ignore the fact that there managers also moan

Mr Alan

he broke someones ankle two years ago?! good heavens, i didn't know that!someone lock this man away! :rolleyes:

Carcharodon

leninbenjamin wrote: »

For what it's worth, I'd be of the opinion players should be looking at ban lengths in terms of month's for that kind of tackle. 10 games would be what I give. Absolutely despicable that tackle was.

And this is why you use the internet to voice such garbage. Reality check please.

leninbenjamin

Carcharodon wrote: »

And this is why you use the internet to voice such garbage. Reality check please.

Why? It's very hard to see how Gallas did anything but deliberately go for the ankle there. It was either reckless to the extreme, or ridiculously spiteful. Studs up going in at the opposing players feet, very lucky no damage was done, I have no qualms saying footballers should face long term bans for that kind of recklessness.

WIZE

What if it was Shawcross who broke his leg . Would it have been Ramsey with the red card

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

he broke someones ankle two years ago?! good heavens, i didn't know that!someone lock this man away! :rolleyes:

So he breaks two legs in two years but we should just let it go without looking into it?please spare me mate.

Frisbee

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Why? It's very hard to see how Gallas did anything but deliberately go for the ankle there. It was either reckless to the extreme, or ridiculously spiteful. Studs up going in at the opposing players feet, very lucky no damage was done, I have no qualms saying footballers should face long term bans for that kind of recklessness.

+1

Most Haunted wrote: »

What if it was Shawcross who broke his leg . Would it have been Ramsey with the red card

If Shawcross nicked the ball away first and Ramsey caught him late and shattered his leg then yes it should have been a red.

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

He is having a moan clearly you can see that but he is being srcastic about it, but as you are a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't expect you to see it(Im not having a go at you by the way )

i see it plain as day thanks.

i'm explaining to you why people are 'hailing him a legend'.

i'm not having a go at Wenger for moaning in general, i'm having a go for

1) him wanting players' bans extended for a tackle that IMO was not that bad.

2) thinking his team is singled out for this treatment.

3) blatantly wanting all contact taken out of the sport so his team can play as many pretty patterns as they want without risk of a tackle.

PDN

Most Haunted wrote: »

What if it was Shawcross who broke his leg . Would it have been Ramsey with the red card

If Shawcross broke his leg because Ramsay whacked his studs with his ankle?

Mr Alan

leg? I thought it was his ankle? Have you seen the tackle that led to jeffers breaking his ankle?

SlickRic

Carcharodon wrote: »

And this is why you use the internet to voice such garbage. Reality check please.

he's right.

tackles like that Gallas one should be outlawed from the game.

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

i see it plain as day thanks.

i'm explaining to you why people are 'hailing him a legend'.
.

Fair enough you are one of the few

I really don't think people should be hailing Rafa a legend for his sarcasm imo.

By the way I agree with you earlier comment, Shawcross should not recveive any additional ban

By the way Arsene has never asked for physical contact to be taken out of the game but to quote yourself in the Liverpool thread it is wrong to have "the **** kicked out" of you, this is when things go too far.

WIZE

Mr Alan wrote: »

leg? I thought it was his ankle? Have you seen the tackle that led to jeffers breaking his ankle?

Official statement - Aaron Ramsey's injury

On Sunday, Arsenal Football Club released the following statement:
“During yesterday’s match against Stoke City, Aaron Ramsey sustained fractures to the tibia and fibula in his right leg. Yesterday evening he underwent surgery.
"The operation successfully reduced the fractures and whilst it is too soon to state an exact timescale for recovery, Aaron will certainly miss the remainder of this season. Our thoughts are with Aaron at this time and everyone at the Club wishes him all the best in making as speedy a return to action as possible.”

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/official-statement-aaron-ramsey-s-injury

Mr Alan

i was talking about jeffers.

WIZE

whoops sorry:o

gosplan

I keep saying this but there's a very fine line between commitment and recklessness.

Shawcross was committed but was he reckless? Was he going to get the ball after his first touch. To me, tbh, that's a matter of opinion. You could argue it all day, which is no doubt what many people here will do but I'm not going to bother.

The main point is if a perceived weakness in the Arsenal team is leading to a greater amount of broken limbs?

At this stage i can't really see how anyone can deny that.

It's a well peddled (and true) opinion at this stage that one way to get the better of Arsenal is to beat them in the physical aspect of the game. Go into challenges hard, don't let them settle and if you have to kick them, well kick them a little bit.

As I type this I can hear all the English pundits commenting how Jose Reyes was never the same after Neville gave him a good going over at OT - how they loved it.

In fairness to United though, they usually beat Arsenal through playing a better game and a mentally stronger game ... as do Chelsea. It's when you get to the mid-table teams who could never take Arsenal on in a clean game of football that you encounter these borderline tactics - Bolton, Stoke, Blackburn etc.

I say borderline tactics because that's exactly what they are. You may flirt with the law, pick up a good few yellows and the odd red but by and large no-one will condemn you too much for it.

What Wenger, I believe, is saying is that when you've three players in four years suffering these kind of injuries through teams trying to physically overcome Arsenal ... well, it's becoming a bit too much.

I can completely understand why he wants more protection for his players and in fairness to all of you complaining about this, you should cop on a bit and realise that it would be both unprofessional and disloyal of him not to call for such measures.

I don't think he's particularly looking for Ryan Shawcross to be banned for long spell but rather the scales to be balanced a bit the next time an over-zealous clumsy defender puts an Arsenal player out for a year.

Anyway, nothing of the sort will happen so it's not worth arguing.

This is just the way British football is ... and it's why Messi, Iniesta and Ronaldo are from other countries.

Kirnsy

gosplan wrote: »

I keep saying this but there's a very fine line between commitment and recklessness.

Shawcross was committed but was he reckless? Was he going to get the ball after his first touch. To me, tbh, that's a matter of opinion. You could argue it all day, which is no doubt what many people here will do but I'm not going to bother.

The main point is if a perceived weakness in the Arsenal team is leading to a greater amount of broken limbs?

At this stage i can't really see how anyone can deny that.

It's a well peddled (and true) opinion at this stage that one way to get the better of Arsenal is to beat them in the physical aspect of the game. Go into challenges hard, don't let them settle and if you have to kick them, well kick them a little bit.

As I type this I can hear all the English pundits commenting how Jose Reyes was never the same after Neville gave him a good going over at OT - how they loved it.

In fairness to United though, they usually beat Arsenal through playing a better game and a mentally stronger game ... as do Chelsea. It's when you get to the mid-table teams who could never take Arsenal on in a clean game of football that you encounter these borderline tactics - Bolton, Stoke, Blackburn etc.

I say borderline tactics because that's exactly what they are. You may flirt with the law, pick up a good few yellows and the odd red but by and large no-one will condemn you too much for it.

What Wenger, I believe, is saying is that when you've three players in four years suffering these kind of injuries through teams trying to physically overcome Arsenal ... well, it's becoming a bit too much.

I can completely understand why he wants more protection for his players and in fairness to all of you complaining about this, you should cop on a bit and realise that it would be both unprofessional and disloyal of him not to call for such measures.

I don't think he's particularly looking for Ryan Shawcross to be banned for long spell but rather the scales to be balanced a bit the next time an over-zealous clumsy defender puts an Arsenal player out for a year.

Anyway, nothing of the sort will happen so it's not worth arguing.

This is just the way British football is ... and it's why Messi, Iniesta and Ronaldo are from playing in other countries.

great post and a tiny fyp ?

FUNKY LOVER

If this were a car accident the defendant couldn't claim to be driving with passion and commitment.

He's a professional footballer. He knows all about the limits of tackling.

I know about these limits just by training twice a week and playing a game on sunday.

He knew he was going in RIDICULOUSLY hard.

You don't break someone's leg by accident. He went in with intent.

The intent wasn't to injure ...

His intent was to give Ramsey no chance of winning ball .. even if that meant a foul had to be committed.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDVgj9

Look at his body angle in that pic ...

Now think about how hard it is to break a leg ?

If I told you to run at me as hard as you could and drop kick my leg , do you think you could get a clean double break first time ?

Ordinary man

Wenger said Darren Fletcher was anti football. Do you consider him a malicious player? If Wenger wants non contact football, let him and the poofballs head over to some other league. Any of the top teams know that the lower teams will get stuck in and they deal with it. Ronaldo used to get kicked all over the place but i never heard Ferguson reacting as badly as Wenger. Same for Benitez and Mourihno

Mr Alan

the fact thats yesterdays game was particularly physical makes the moaning even more tiresome to be honest. Stoke commited 14 fouls, which is not a lot, about average. Everton commited 19 today for example, blackburn (the dirtiest team in the league) commited 25 today.

PDN

Ordinary man wrote: »

Wenger said Darren Fletcher was anti football. Do you consider him a malicious player? If Wenger wants non contact football, let him and the poofballs head over to some other league. Any of the top teams know that the lower teams will get stuck in and they deal with it. Ronaldo used to get kicked all over the place but i never heard Ferguson reacting as badly as Wenger. Same for Benitez and Mourihno

Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho never had to watch one of their players getting his leg snapped in two - let alone three.

Mr Alan

i'd imagine all those manager have seen their players pick up serious injuries at times, incl broken legs.

Headshot

PDN wrote: »

Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho never had to watch one of their players getting his leg snapped in two - let alone three.

ah yes

saf had to watch that ************** of a boro player Pogatetz take out possebon

PDN

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd imagine all those manager have seen their players pick up serious injuries at times, incl broken legs.

There's a difference between seeing their players "pick up serious injuries" and watching someone go over the top to snap another player's leg so it bends into an impossible angle.

Mr Alan

shawcross didn't go over the top.

SlickRic

PDN wrote: »

watching someone go over the top to snap another player's leg so it bends into an impossible angle.

this did not happen yesterday.

gosplan

Ordinary man wrote: »

Wenger said Darren Fletcher was anti football. Do you consider him a malicious player? If Wenger wants non contact football, let him and the poofballs head over to some other league. Any of the top teams know that the lower teams will get stuck in and they deal with it. Ronaldo used to get kicked all over the place but i never heard Ferguson reacting as badly as Wenger. Same for Benitez and Mourihno

1: Ronaldo never had his leg broken.

2: Fergie has frequently called for more protection from the refs.

3: Reported

Ordinary man wrote: »

If Wenger wants non contact football, let him and the poofballs head over to some other league

Mr Alan

if someone puts in a real horror tackle, a shocker, i'd have no real issue wit Wenger calling for a huge ban or saying the stuff he's said.

OPENROAD

gosplan wrote: »

2: Fergie has frequently called for more protection from the refs.

But he never moans

Mr Alan

jamie carragher has had his leg broken. so has stephen warnock (both legs if i remember right). believe it or not, breaking a leg is actually an occupational hazard for footballers.

Bodhisopha

The intention is often the same with these teams against Arsenal. Go in hard, hit the ball hard and hopefully hit the man hard too while you're at it.

Of course Shawcross didn't mean to snap his leg like a pencil, he meant to hit the ball and man hard. As long as clubs adopt this mentality, we will see these injuries.

Like Wenger says, it's no coincidence.

leninbenjamin

Mr Alan wrote: »

jamie carragher has had his leg broken.

I notice you didn't bring up Houllier's reaction at the time.

"When the game had finished I wish Graeme Souness had come up to me and said, 'Sorry, it was a bad tackle'. But he did nothing. That really made me furious," he said. "I like to think of myself as a nice guy but in this case I am extremely unhappy with their behaviour during the incident, during the game and after the game.

"Blackburn have lost a player for three games and we have lost one for six months. You know as well as I do how important Carragher is to my team. In France there was a case where a player injured another with a bad tackle, which forced him out of the game for two months. The French FA banned the player responsible for the same length of time.

"I think Neill deserves more than three games for the way he behaved. I am gutted. To break a leg when a player is wearing shinpads takes something."

maybe it's a French thing....

gosplan

Mr Alan wrote: »

jamie carragher has had his leg broken. so has stephen warnock (both legs if i remember right). believe it or not, breaking a leg is actually an occupational hazard for footballers.

Nobody's denying this Alan. I think what Wenger's saying is that recently it has happened, and will probably continue to happen, more frequently to Arsenal players due to an overly-physical approach employed against them.

Anyway, it's obvious that managers are always going to back their team as much as they can and it's really not worth debating. Ramsey's leg is broken, Shawcross will be back in three, end of.

The real subject that should be discussed (as mentioned by arseblogger this morning) is that the last time this happened it ended with Arsenal capitulating and the then captain, Gallas, sitting down and sulking after the final whistle. This time our captain helped us pile on the pressure towards the end of the game, stepped up and took a hugely important penalty himself and then set up another for good measure.

All hail Cesc!!!!

Mr Alan

maybe it is. but noticed how i said if it was actually a horror tackle i'd have no issue with wat wenger said. its the fact that the tackle wasn't bad that makes it wrong.

greendom

gosplan wrote: »

Nobody's denying this Alan. I think what Wenger's saying is that recently it has happened, and will probably continue to happen, more frequently to Arsenal players due to an overly-physical approach employed against them.

Anyway, it's obvious that managers are always going to back their team as much as they can and it's really not worth debating. Ramsey's leg is broken, Shawcross will be back in three, end of.

The real subject that should be discussed (as mentioned by arseblogger this morning) is that the last time this happened it ended with Arsenal capitulating and the then captain, Gallas, sitting down and sulking after the final whistle. This time our captain helped us pile on the pressure towards the end of the game, stepped up and took a hugely important penalty himself and then set up another for good measure.

All hail Cesc!!!!

It would have been a real test of Cesc's character had Stoke been given an unfair penalty and had Arsenal had 2 perfectly good goals disallowed.

Mars Bar

I agree it wasn't a red card but I think it was best Shawcross was given a red card.

If I broke someone's leg, I'd want to run into a corner and have the world swallow me up right there and then. I bet he was glad to see the dressing room where he could possibly have had a good cry about it and get the shock out of his system.

I'm sure if he hadn't been sent off, he probably would have been substituted anyway but ya never know...

m@cc@

leninbenjamin wrote: »

maybe it's a French thing....

Yeah, I'd question the validity of Houiller's quotes. I mean, how did they know the exact time the player would be injured? And did the tackler have to wait until the other guy got fit again? It's the thin end of a wedge. How do you decide between a player being injured for a week and one being injured for 6 months?

citytillidie

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Actually, it's frequently brought up. Anytime we play Stoke or Bolton in particular someone makes a quote to that extent, every time we play these teams many Arsenal fans feel our players get little protection. Most recently it was the Bolton games, they got away with some awful dirty play in those games, including Taylor (iirc) dragging his foot across Fabregas' face after fouling him (in the box, a penalty that wasn't given).

So because 90% of the time you're going to ignore Arsenal discussion in the press it doesn't give you a right to condemn us for such remarks.

That happens to every one of the top 4 teams. Ronaldo got kicked all over the place when he played for United and got nothing for it and turned to diving. Torres gets kicked all over the place without much protection from the ref which has seen him moan more and more at the refs. Drogba gives back as good as he gets or goes down to easily.

citytillidie

PDN wrote: »

Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho never had to watch one of their players getting his leg snapped in two - let alone three.

Hmmm Manager of Liverpool at the time Cisse got his leg broke in two places was Benitez

flahavaj

citytillidie wrote: »

Hmmm Manager of Liverpool at the time Cisse got his leg broke in two places was Benitez

I'm pretty sure Fergie has seen a broken leg or two in his 20+ years at United as well, Alan Smith for starters. Not that it f*cking matters one jot, stupid point being made either way.

noodler

Fake picture...give me strength...

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I notice you didn't bring up Houllier's reaction at the time.



maybe it's a French thing....

Good point, I think Neil's tackle was worse personally but it doesn't matter, you can't just say a ban should equal the injury period.

kmart6

Has it been mentioned that Shawcross injured Adebayor last season with a tackle in retaliation to an earlier tackle, Ade was out for 3 weeks!

So maybe that was in Wengers head as well and influenced his comments!