Aaron Ramsey tackle.

oconnon9

any arsenal fan who thinks it was a horrendous/malicious/deliberate tackle is deluding themselves..

It was an unfortunate incident. full stop

Johner

kmart6 wrote: »

Has it been mentioned that Shawcross injured Adebayor last season with a tackle in retaliation to an earlier tackle, Ade was out for 3 weeks!

So maybe that was in Wengers head as well and influenced his comments!

And I think he broke Francis Jeffers leg with a tackle a few years back, could be wrong.

kmart6

Nah, just ligament damage and out for 3 months!

Degag

copacetic wrote: »

it doesn't show that at all, thats after the impact, there are other pictures that show Shawcross barely missed the ball and the ball, his foot and Ramseys leg are all close together.

IvySlayer wrote: »

Is it possible Ramseys leg was already buckling and then Shawcross tackled?

I don't know, but from what i saw on MOTD last night i thought his foot definately buckled before the impact. That is not to say that Shawcross did not do damage.

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

total fake picture.you should be banned for posting pictures which suggests it was his own fault.have you any class my god..

I take alot of offence to this post. First of all, that picture was published in the News of the World today, a tabloid that is read by a few million every Sunday i'd imagine. Second of all, i doubt that it is fake. Third of all, nobody could insinuate that it was his own fault. Fourth of all, if the mods thoughtr i was guilty of an offence (which i am not) they would hav e reprimanded me already. Fifth of all, this is a thread directly regarding an injury to Aaron Ramsey, did you not expect pictures? Sixth of all, am i feeding the troll?!

L'prof

Degag_ wrote: »

I don't know, but from what i saw on MOTD last night i thought his foot definately buckled before the impact. That is not to say that Shawcross did not do damage.



I take alot of offence to this post. First of all, that picture was published in the News of the World today, a tabloid that is read by a few million every Sunday i'd imagine. Second of all, i doubt that it is fake. Third of all, nobody could insinuate that it was his own fault. Fourth of all, if the mods thoughtr i was guilty of an offence (which i am not) they would hav e reprimanded me already. Fifth of all, this is a thread directly regarding an injury to Aaron Ramsey, did you not expect pictures? Sixth of all, am i feeding the troll?!

The post isn't fake but it's definitely after the challenge. I've watched the clip slowed down completely on numerous occasions and there is no doubt that Shawcross caused all the damage.

L'prof

Just for comparison.

Her's your picture: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00096/ramsey2_682x511_96158a.jpg

Which clearly comes after these two when you look at them!

thebaz

I don't support Arsenal , but a massive fan of what Wegners teams have brought to the Premiership - is it co-incidental that 3 of their players have suffered horrific injuries ?

If all teams played like Stoke (bogball) , rather than proper football ala Arsenal, I'd have little interest in the game itself

Degag

jasonorr wrote: »

Just for comparison.

Her's your picture: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00096/ramsey2_682x511_96158a.jpg

Which clearly comes after these two when you look at them!

Eh, it's still not conclusive - yes i'm looking at the position of the ball etc etc etc. But the camera angles may deceive.

L'prof

Degag_ wrote: »

Eh, it's still not conclusive - yes i'm looking at the position of the ball etc etc etc. But the camera angles may deceive.

What???

Look at Ramsey!!!

It's a slightly different angle but, Ramsey falls down, not up!

GLaDOS

Tbh I don't think a red card is wrong, regardless of the injury, he's lost control of the ball, gone in late and gone in very hard. Some refs would give it and others would just give yellow. The leg break definatly influenced the ref but you can hardly blame him.

The leg break was unlucky though, happened to hit Ramsey as he planted his foot, don't think Shawcross should get any more than the normal ban.

jank

SlickRic wrote: »

it just happens that Arsenal players' legs are getting broken.

Yeap, 19 other teams in the league and it only happens to Arsenal..fancy that!!
Nevermind that each time it has been an away game for them, or the fact that it happens against some of the weaker teams in the league or that each time the tackle was late/dangerous/clumsy. It just happens...

Wow, Wenger better buy a lottery ticket with odds like that!

Christ, Wenger just watched one of his best young players get his leg snapped in half and people are giving him $hit cause he has an opinion.
Well he must be doing something right as when Wenger is annoying people it means that they are doing well. 3 points off the top of the league now!

http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28595

"It is not fair," he blasted.

Oh but when fergie does it, he must be right!, Right

kryogen

kmart6 wrote: »

Has it been mentioned that Shawcross injured Adebayor last season with a tackle in retaliation to an earlier tackle, Ade was out for 3 weeks!

QUOTE]

Johner wrote: »

And I think he broke Francis Jeffers leg with a tackle a few years back, could be wrong.

yeah i heard he sells drugs to kids and it was him who assasinated JFK too :eek:

dfx-

I have only seen the tackle and thought it just unlucky. I do trust though Wenger has replied in kind to the Gallas challenge a few weeks ago..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7Fv4RMt6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5mpzn75kmE

No intention to harm..

OPENROAD

Love the way this tackle is now being turned around to have a go at Wenger.

m@cc@

OPENROAD wrote: »

Love the way this tackle is now being turned around to have a go at Wenger.

Bleat, bleat, bleat. The tackle has been discussed to death at this stage. Wenger's reaction is worthy of discussion.

Jazzy

OPENROAD wrote: »

Love the way this tackle is now being turned around to have a go at Wenger.

yeah. its massively bullsh1t

jank

m@cc@ wrote: »

Bleat, bleat, bleat. The tackle has been discussed to death at this stage. Wenger's reaction is worthy of discussion.

Ramsey leg snaped in half..old news.
Wengers post match reaction ...still fair game.

Not exactly covering yourself in glory are you?

I actually find it funny that posters give more of a $hit about what Wenger says practically any other manger in the league.

m@cc@

jank wrote: »

Ramsey leg snaped in half..old news.
Wengers post match reaction ...still fair game.

Not exactly covering yourself in glory are you?

I actually find it funny that posters give more of a $hit about what Wenger says practically any other manger in the league.

Would you like a separate thread for Wenger's comments? As I said, his comments are worthy of discussion and they are obviously related to the incident. It doesn't detract from people's sympathy for Ramsay.

OPENROAD

m@cc@ wrote: »

Would you like a separate thread for Wenger's comments? As I said, his comments are worthy of discussion and they are obviously related to the incident. It doesn't detract from people's sympathy for Ramsay.

I wonder if it was any other manager would we now be focusing in on then, I doubt it imo.

m@cc@

OPENROAD wrote: »

I wonder if it was any other manager would we now be focusing in on then, I doubt it imo.

We'll never know.

jank

m@cc@ wrote: »

Would you like a separate thread for Wenger's comments? As I said, his comments are worthy of discussion and they are obviously related to the incident. It doesn't detract from people's sympathy for Ramsay.

If you want to make a seperate thread then go ahead. I am not going to stop you. I just find it ironic that you think that his comments are worthy of discussion but the incident itself is old news now! Talk about hearing what you want to see!

Peyton Manning

OPENROAD wrote: »

I wonder if it was any other manager would we now be focusing in on then, I doubt it imo.

Just to comment on this, there was a very similar tackle in the Man Utd - Middlesboro Carling Cup third round game back in 2008. when Emmanuel Pogatetz injured Rodrigo Possebon.

Granted, Pogatetz has a history of serious foul play, and his challenge was higher than Shawcross' but after the game, Fergie had this to say:

"It was an absolutely terrible tackle," said United manager Ferguson.

"What gets me about challenges like that is that the opponent always claims he has done nothing wrong."

"Pogatetz should have just walked off the field," stated Ferguson.

"Then you get their bench screaming that it wasn't a sending off and there is nothing wrong with our player.

I dont recall Ferguson being criticized by anyone or a thread being derailed because of it back then. Why is it a different story with Wenger? If anything, he has more of a right to be outraged considering its not the first or second time its happened Arsenal in recent years.

ctrl-alt-delete

A bit late on this, but i'm only back home after the weekend,

The way i saw it, initially i thought there was nothing much to the tackle, but then you see Ramsey holding his leg up in the air and it is clearly broke.

Now the ref upon seeing this can only assume (and fairly legitimitley) that this was a direct result of the tackle, he shows the red card.

Having seen it again i think the Red is harsh, It looks to me like Ramsyes foot dug into the ground in an unatural position before Shawcross got there. Now without the Shawcross tackle it might just have resulted in a badly twisted or sprained ankle, but when the tackle comes in the weak point becomes the middle of Ramseys leg seems as though it is grounded. With that in mind it was terrible unlucky for both players and i feel sorry for Ramsey and the Arsenal team to have to witness that. I was visibly shook having just seen it on Motd never mind in the flesh what was for many not the first time.

I'm hoping Ramsey can make a speedy recovery and that there is no lasting damage.

daveyboy_1ie

Archimedez wrote: »

I dont recall Ferguson being criticized by anyone or a thread being derailed because of it back then. Why is it a different story with Wenger? If anything, he has more of a right to be outraged considering its not the first or second time its happened Arsenal in recent years.

Entirely different scenarios, the boro player not only intended to end a players career but had actually been guilty of the same ttype of tackle on several occasions so the intention was never in question. At the time of the Shawcross tackle I thought I don't see him as that type of player and have seen the tackle and I still have that opinion. Feel gutted for Ramsey and wish him a speedy recovery and hopefully his career does not got the way of Possebon's after his experience.

cournioni

It wasn't a sending off offence, just pure bad luck that Ramsey broke his leg. The referee probably sent Shawcross off for his own protection really (totally wrong but probably the reason).

FUNKY LOVER

Freak accident my arse he went in like a maniac he was being outplayed he was tired he seen his England cap slip away decided to intimadate an Arsenal player with Newtons second law of motion except the Arsenal player did not have a chance to get out of the way. Shawcross is a thug he has enough previous. Funny I dont see that happening in many games and I do watch alot of footballwhen it does happen it is the usual morons a fair percentage of said morons play for Stoke including the thug Shawcross.

Frisbee

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Freak accident my arse he went in like a maniac he was being outplayed he was tired he seen his England cap slip away decided to intimadate an Arsenal player with Newtons second law of motion except the Arsenal player did not have a chance to get out of the way. Shawcross is a thug he has enough previous. Funny I dont see that happening in many games and I do watch alot of footballwhen it does happen it is the usual morons a fair percentage of said morons play for Stoke including the thug Shawcross.

(1) He didn't even know he was being called up until after the game.

(2) I disagree with every point you've made.

cournioni

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Freak accident my arse he went in like a maniac he was being outplayed he was tired he seen his England cap slip away decided to intimadate an Arsenal player with Newtons second law of motion except the Arsenal player did not have a chance to get out of the way. Shawcross is a thug he has enough previous. Funny I dont see that happening in many games and I do watch alot of footballwhen it does happen it is the usual morons a fair percentage of said morons play for Stoke including the thug Shawcross.

What planet are you on?

helimachoptor

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

It wasn't a sending off offence, just pure bad luck that Ramsey broke his leg. The referee probably sent Shawcross off for his own protection really (totally wrong but probably the reason).

Couldnt agree more, Yes Shawcross went in hard, yes he missed the ball and clattered Ramseys ankle but this is football.

But he was sent off for his own protection as someone like Gallas would have meted out a 2 footed shocker too him the second he had the ball.

recylingbin

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Freak accident my arse he went in like a maniac he was being outplayed he was tired he seen his England cap slip away decided to intimadate an Arsenal player with Newtons second law of motion except the Arsenal player did not have a chance to get out of the way. Shawcross is a thug he has enough previous. Funny I dont see that happening in many games and I do watch alot of footballwhen it does happen it is the usual morons a fair percentage of said morons play for Stoke including the thug Shawcross.

Is running a thug for that time when it broke Djibril Cissé's leg?
It had previous too. Remember what it did to Henrik Larsson?

Don't be such a drama queen. It was a genuine effort to go for the ball. Unfortunately, Ramsey's leg wa broken in the challenge. Sometimes these things happen.

noodler

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Freak accident my arse he went in like a maniac he was being outplayed he was tired he seen his England cap slip away decided to intimadate an Arsenal player with Newtons second law of motion except the Arsenal player did not have a chance to get out of the way. Shawcross is a thug he has enough previous. Funny I dont see that happening in many games and I do watch alot of footballwhen it does happen it is the usual morons a fair percentage of said morons play for Stoke including the thug Shawcross.

cson

helimachoptor wrote: »

But he was sent off for his own protection as someone like Gallas would have meted out a 2 footed shocker too him the second he had the ball.

Gtfo.

Mitch Connor

cson wrote: »

Gtfo.

Arsenal players tried to kick Nani off the pitch for doing some keepy-ups while evading a tackle. You think they wouldn't have tried to kick Shawcross off the pitch for, as they might see it, deliberately injuring Ramsey?

helimachoptor

cson wrote: »

Gtfo.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Arsenal players tried to kick Nani off the pitch for doing some keepy-ups while evading a tackle. You think they wouldn't have tried to kick Shawcross off the pitch for, as they might see it, deliberately injuring Ramsey?

I see this week in week out on pitches, one team has a guy who gets creamed, within a couple of minutes the guy who made the bad tackle gets hammered.

Mitch is right, they see it as sticking up for their team mates and with emotions running so high, reasoning goes out the window.

cson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Arsenal players tried to kick Nani off the pitch for doing some keepy-ups while evading a tackle. You think they wouldn't have tried to kick Shawcross off the pitch for, as they might see it, deliberately injuring Ramsey?

I think it's neither here nor there to speculate what the **** might have happened if Shawcross stayed on the pitch. I'm not going to bother my arse outlining my own opinion on the matter because by the looks of things it'll only be chewed up and spat back at me by some of the knowledgeable posters in here. I will say though; Archimedez summed it well on the last page.

SDTimeout

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Entirely different scenarios, the boro player not only intended to end a players career but had actually been guilty of the same ttype of tackle on several occasions so the intention was never in question. At the time of the Shawcross tackle I thought I don't see him as that type of player and have seen the tackle and I still have that opinion. Feel gutted for Ramsey and wish him a speedy recovery and hopefully his career does not got the way of Possebon's after his experience.

How do you know the boro player had intent ? Not to mention you don't see him as that type of player because the media are failing to bring up the fact he almost crippled adebayor last season and broke francis jeffers ankle in 2007. 22 years old and caused 2 broken legs in his career. Yeah he's not that type of reckless player at all!!

Frisbee

SDTimeout wrote: »

How do you know the boro player had intent ?

Because it was very plain to see. He quite clearly didn't even try to play the ball, his eyes were firmly focused on Possebon.

Pogatetz also has a serious malicious streak, I remember at least one tackle in Euro 2008 where he nearly crippled someone with a tackle above the knee.

PDN

helimachoptor wrote: »

But he was sent off for his own protection as someone like Gallas would have meted out a 2 footed shocker too him the second he had the ball.

Since Gallas wasn't playing and would have had to jump out of the stands to launch a two footed tackle it would certainly have been a shocker! :pac:

helimachoptor

PDN wrote: »

Since Gallas wasn't playing and would have had to jump out of the stands to launch a two footed tackle it would certainly have been a shocker! :pac:

Just using him as an example, Ok I'll go with Campbell instead

Neil3030

I also think the red card helped diffuse the situation. Regardless of Shawcross' intent, him remaining on the pitch could have led to backlash.

As it was, Arsenal rallied together and saw out the game admirably, securing the win. Only way to do it.

L'prof

Interesting article here from Martin Samuel.

Nice pic here:

SDTimeout

Frisbee wrote: »

Because it was very plain to see. He quite clearly didn't even try to play the ball, his eyes were firmly focused on Possebon.

Pogatetz also has a serious malicious streak, I remember at least one tackle in Euro 2008 where he nearly crippled someone with a tackle above the knee.

That's fair enough, my other point is still valid however would like his responce.

leninbenjamin

Here's Graham Poll's take on it.

GRAHAM POLL: Ryan Shawcross' tackle on Aaron Ramsey was no accident

Arsene Wenger was understandably incensed at the Ryan Shawcross challenge which left Aaron Ramsey with a broken leg and his team-mates visibly distressed.

There are very few genuine accidents in football. I accept that Shawcross did not intend any harm but his tackle was no accident.

Those who argue that football is a 'man's game' and referees are trying to make it a non-contact sport should look at Saturday's incident.

Wenger was right to highlight the 'play on, play on' approach by referees in England. The majority of Premier League refs fail at tempo management - reading the game, giving 'small' fouls to remove heat and allowing the pace to build and flow.

This gives players the protection they deserve - not just the skilful ones or those at Arsenal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254472/GRAHAM-POLL-Ryan-Shawcross-tackle-Aaron-Ramsey-accident.html#ixzz0gw9iSiid

KerranJast

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Here's Graham Poll's take on it.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254472/GRAHAM-POLL-Ryan-Shawcross-tackle-Aaron-Ramsey-accident.html#ixzz0gw9iSiid

No-one should listen to opinions on football from a clown like Graham Poll. He also said this weekend that Vidic shouldn't have been sent off against Villa in the Carling Cup :rolleyes:

The referee would have looked for an excuse not to send the player off

FUNKY LOVER

"Shearer was at it again at the weekend about Shawcross, saying he had no history of this kind of thing - WRONG - and they all consistently, maddeningly, miss the point. You don't have to be that kind of player but if you tackle somebody like that then you have to be punished for what is an act of violence that has no place on a football pitch. That is not tackling, that is not trying to win the ball. When you go in with two feet, both of them stamping down on the shin of a fellow player there is only one thing you are trying to do and that is hurt him. It might be a moment of madness, atypical behaviour perhaps, but that's all it takes.

The fact that you've never done it before doesn't excuse it. You don't kill someone in real life and get away with it because 'you're not that kind of person'. Once is enough. Yet the culture that exists in English football is to excuse it time and time again. Nolan got a three match ban for his tackle on Anichebe. Shawcross will miss three games (just one more than Alex Song for cumulative bookings). How is that right? When the punishment does not fit the crime the crimes will continue to happen."

Frisbee

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

When you go in with two feet, both of them stamping down on the shin of a fellow player there is only one thing you are trying to do and that is hurt him.

Wow, I'm starting to think you haven't even seen the tackle with the way your harping on.

I've seen it dozens of times and it certainly wasn't two footed.

FUNKY LOVER

well i have saw footage and pics of it from behind abd his two feet are up in the air as he clumsily lunges towards the player,thats two footed in my opinion,ok maybe it wasnt on purpose to hurt ramsey but noone can answer that only shawcross.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDVgj9

amacachi

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDVgj9

According to some people that's a fair tackle, even though the ball is on the ground and he's kicking above it.

mayordenis

Mr Alan wrote: »

jamie carragher has had his leg broken. so has stephen warnock (both legs if i remember right). believe it or not, breaking a leg is actually an occupational hazard for footballers.

Jamie carragher has his leg broken in a tackle in game aginst Blackburn I believe.

Warnock had 2 leg breaks at youth level.

Alonso had his ankle broken by a stupid tackle from lampard.

Cisse had his leg smashed in a nothing tackle again by a blackburn player.

Hell Roy Keane had his ankle broken by a nothing tackle from Garcia.

People on here are advocating a bad looking break being worse than a more average looking break, I'm sorry but the horror aspect of the leg break is clouding peoples judgement.

I feel awful for Ramsey and I hope he recovers in time to become a permanent fixture for Arsenal next season, but it was not a bad chellenge I'm sorry it simply wasn't.

cson

amacachi wrote: »

According to some people that's a fair tackle, even though the ball is on the ground and he's kicking above it.

I don't think anyone can argue that it was a fair tackle. Whilst there may have been no real intent to do in Ramsey, imo Shawcross launched into that tackle with the intention of going for the ball but if he got a piece of the man then well and good. There may be an accidental and unfortunate element to it but the truth is if you hurl yourself into tackles like he did on Saturday night you're going to hurt someone if you make contact with them going for the ball regardless.

As for those criticising Arsene Wenger; he called it as he saw it - a horrendous tackle. It's his opinion, just as all those who posted on this thread are entitled to theirs. Any manager would have said more or less the same thing in the heat of the moment after having a player injured like that. He has every right to be upset with what happened.

In any event, nothing that's said here that is going to unbreak Aaron Ramsey's leg so I'll finish and leave this thread be by wishing the lad a speedy recovery and hope he can come back better than ever and realise the huge amount of potential he has.