Aaron Ramsey tackle.

L'prof

mayordenis wrote: »

People on here are advocating a bad looking break being worse than a more average looking break, I'm sorry but the horror aspect of the leg break is clouding peoples judgement.

3 breaks where the leg is visible badly broken is clearly worse though. These are all long term injuries too although Ramsey could recover quicker than Eduardo and Diaby. Ho long was the recovery times for the injuries you mentioned in comparison to the 9-12 months for Diaby and Eduardo?

mayordenis

jasonorr wrote: »

3 breaks where the leg is visible badly broken is clearly worse though. These are all long term injuries too although Ramsey could recover quicker than Eduardo and Diaby. Ho long was the recovery times for the injuries you mentioned in comparison to the 9-12 months for Diaby and Eduardo?

Diaby was out for 9 months? they're saying Ramsey might be back for the start of next season, about 6,

Cisse was out for a huge amount of time, I think Carra was out for 5/6 months,

Craig Fagan only around 4 months,

Clearly worse? Maybe I'm not saying this right, and I'm not trying to argue. but how is it worse? I understand recovery time can be longer, so you mean the injury is worse? but it doesn't make the tackle worse.

We've all seen proper horror tackles that shouldn't be allowed, where the player on the end was just back up and playing, in this case it went the other way, the tackle wasn't horrific but the injury was.

Hammer Archer

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

When you go in with two feet, both of them stamping down on the shin of a fellow player there is only one thing you are trying to do and that is hurt him.

I'm sorry but it is blatantly obvious to me and hopefully everyone else that you haven't actually seen the tackle. Shawcross doesn't go in two footed. He doesn't stamp down on the shin of Ramsey and he sure as hell wasn't trying to hurt him.

FUNKY LOVER

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I'm sorry but it is blatantly obvious to me and hopefully everyone else that you haven't actually seen the tackle. Shawcross doesn't go in two footed. He doesn't stamp down on the shin of Ramsey and he sure as hell wasn't trying to hurt him.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDVgj9

is this not two footed?okay maybe he didnt mean to hurt him,but only he can answer that.

secman

Look at the photo in post No 9. The majority of the damage was done way before contact by Shawcross. Didn't think it was a red card tackle myself. There was no intent by Shawcross to do him. Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

Secman

FUNKY LOVER

are you serious,it has been proved already that that photo was after the contact was made as you can see by the position of the ball:rolleyes:

honestly i cant believe im reading that its ramseys fault his leg snapped:rolleyes:

L'prof

secman wrote: »

Look at the photo in post No 9. The majority of the damage was done way before contact by Shawcross. Didn't think it was a red card tackle myself. There was no intent by Shawcross to do him. Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

Secman

That was after the tackle!!! See here.

Helix

amacachi wrote: »

According to some people that's a fair tackle, even though the ball is on the ground and he's kicking above it.

hes not kicking above where it was a fraction of a second beforehand, just as ramsey toepoked it away

L'prof

Helix wrote: »

hes not kicking above where it was a fraction of a second beforehand, just as ramsey toepoked it away

To be fair, I think his foot would have been slightly over the ball!

Helix

jasonorr wrote: »

To be fair, I think his foot would have been slightly over the ball!

i dunno, hed have made contact with it and gotten a solid kick of it had it not been nicked

honestly dont think there was anything remotely ill-intentioned in it

L'prof

Helix wrote: »

i dunno, hed have made contact with it and gotten a solid kick of it had it not been nicked

honestly dont think there was anything remotely ill-intentioned in it

I think it was clumsy and if he did get the ball, he probably would have kicked it into the ground more than anything else. Don't think it was ill-intentioned and have never said I did!

Hyzepher

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

"Shearer was at it again at the weekend about Shawcross, saying he had no history of this kind of thing - WRONG - and they all consistently, maddeningly, miss the point. You don't have to be that kind of player but if you tackle somebody like that then you have to be punished for what is an act of violence that has no place on a football pitch. That is not tackling, that is not trying to win the ball. When you go in with two feet, both of them stamping down on the shin of a fellow player there is only one thing you are trying to do and that is hurt him. It might be a moment of madness, atypical behaviour perhaps, but that's all it takes.

The fact that you've never done it before doesn't excuse it. You don't kill someone in real life and get away with it because 'you're not that kind of person'. Once is enough. Yet the culture that exists in English football is to excuse it time and time again. Nolan got a three match ban for his tackle on Anichebe. Shawcross will miss three games (just one more than Alex Song for cumulative bookings). How is that right? When the punishment does not fit the crime the crimes will continue to happen."

I hope you are not claiming that those words are your own?

mayordenis

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

honestly i cant believe im reading that its ramseys fault his leg snapped:rolleyes:

Nobody has said that, you are talking complete and total ****.

FUNKY LOVER

Hyzepher wrote: »

I hope you are not claiming that those words are your own?

absolutely not its a quote mate.

FUNKY LOVER

mayordenis wrote: »

Nobody has said that, you are talking complete and total ****.

Look at the photo in post No 9. The majority of the damage was done way before contact by Shawcross. Didn't think it was a red card tackle myself. There was no intent by Shawcross to do him. Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

Secman


am i really?

Godge

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Look at the photo in post No 9. The majority of the damage was done way before contact by Shawcross. Didn't think it was a red card tackle myself. There was no intent by Shawcross to do him. Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

Secman


am i really?

That photo is from after the contact.

Stoke played the way they always play. Get in among them. Let them know we won't let them play their pretty football. Get stuck in. Send them a message. Not surprised it happened.

Drive a little faster. open the sunroof. an open road let's go for it. Oops, didn't intend to lose control of the car and kill the little girl standing on the pavement. He is not that sort of a guy. But he has previous (Jeffers and Adebayor and still only a young lad)

The way that Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland, Hull and Birmingham play football is a sickness at the heart of the Premiership.

FUNKY LOVER

Godge wrote: »

That photo is from after the contact.

Stoke played the way they always play. Get in among them. Let them know we won't let them play their pretty football. Get stuck in. Send them a message. Not surprised it happened.

Drive a little faster. open the sunroof. an open road let's go for it. Oops, didn't intend to lose control of the car and kill the little girl standing on the pavement. He is not that sort of a guy. But he has previous (Jeffers and Adebayor and still only a young lad)

The way that Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland, Hull and Birmingham play football is a sickness at the heart of the Premiership.

i know i made a balls of the reply,i was actually pointing out how some people are blaming aaron for his leg breaking!!the car scenario is been used a lot,its a good way of getting the point across to people who are been brainwashed by the english media,and making shawcross actually look like the unfortunate one in all this:rolleyes:

secman

I stand corrected on the photo, still don't think he went in to do him though. He caught him with his instep, would have been a lot worse if he went in studs up.



Secman

leninbenjamin

Helix wrote: »

honestly dont think there was anything remotely ill-intentioned in it

That doesn't mean it wasn't reckless though.

Shawcross was stretching, his foot was going over the ball in most angles I've seen, at most he would have glanced it but he was never getting clean contact on it, and he was coming in with what was obviously far too much force. It was effectively just a big downward kick into Ramsey's shins, that shouldn't be an acceptable tackle.

I think when you see it side on like the live pic showed it looks fairly innocuous. But this doesn't show mow much Shawcross was stretching. Having seen the pics and replays from behind it's clear it was just a reckless swipe into Ramsey's path, I can't understand how it can be interpreted as anything but.

FUNKY LOVER

secman wrote: »

I stand corrected on the photo, still don't think he went in to do him though. He caught him with his instep, would have been a lot worse if he went in studs up.



Secman

how many times do we have to say it,we KNOW he didnt mean any harm but its the wrecklesness of the tackle,if you go into tackles like that sooner or later your gonna do someone ala ramsey.

this is the point wenger was making but as usual the english media twist his words cause shawcross is english:rolleyes:

redzerdrog

shawcross didnt deserve a red card at all feel sorry for both players really but thats football it was an accident at the end of the day

G1032

Columbia wrote: »

However Ryan Shawcross doesn't deserve to be victimised for this

I'm sorry but he does. This is not the first time Shawcross has done this. He has previously broken Francis Jeffers' ankle and did his best to break Adeabayor's last season. (link here - - http://www.twitvid.com/3BCE0
Now he has gone and broken Ramsey's leg in half.
He's nothing short of a thug and has no place on a Premiership team, or a Sunday league team for that matter.
He was going in to 'let Ramsey know he's there' so to speak, and too many teams have been doing this against Arsenal in an illegal manner for far too long, the consequences of which have been 3 broken legs in 5 years. Is it any wonder they don't 'like it up 'em'
There is a way to rough players up without breaking their legs. Chelsea can do it, Villa can do it and so can several other teams.
But something has to be done about the likes of Shawcross and Stoke or we're going to see more broken ankles and legs before too long.

OPENROAD

jasonorr wrote: »

Interesting article here from Martin Samuel.

Nice pic here:

Excellent article, it seems that some people have more sympathy for Shawcross rather than Ramsey.

Mr Alan

has their been a single non arsenal fan who thinks it was anything more than an accident on this site since it happened? I don't think so tbh. Says a lot.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

has their been a single non arsenal fan who thinks it was anything more than an accident on this site since it happened? I don't think so tbh. Says a lot.

Would love to know how you and other Liverpool fans would react if it was one of your players.

Have a read of Martin Samuels article in todays Mail, it was an accident in only so far as there was no malice, but it was late.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254454/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Now-Aaron-Ramsey--broken-legs-chance.html

Royale with Cheese

Just listening to the Guardian podcast. They're talking a lot of sense about Shawcross's tackle. I'm so fed up of hearing about how he's not that kind of player and how there was no malice in the tackle.

Royale with Cheese

OPENROAD wrote: »

Excellent article, it seems that some people have more sympathy for Shawcross rather than Ramsey.

Definitely. Can't believe the other thread on here about it. A 19 year old is lying in hospital with his leg shattered and people are far more worried how Ryan Shawcross looks or what Arsene Wenger said about him.

Mr Alan

i certainly wouldn't try and make the incident something that anyone with a bit of common sense can see it wasn't. No one for a second is arguing it wasn't late. There's a lot of late tackles in every match. When one ends in a broken leg, that's no excuse for the witchhunt some arsenal staff and fans here have been advocating.

OPENROAD

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Definitely. Can't believe the other thread on here about it. A 19 year old is lying in hospital with his leg shattered and people are far more worried how Ryan Shawcross looks or what Arsene Wenger said about him.

You know it would be completely different if it was a utd or liverpool player.

Warper

It was an extremely wild swing by Shawcross. He took a full swipe at Ramsey/ball together. Obviously he didnt mean to snap Ramseys leg in 2 but it was a reckless challenge. If Ramseys leg was still intact he would have got a yellow but in fairness you cant blame the ref for the straight red especially when you see Ramsey's leg and the the grimaces on Vermaelen's and Fabregas' faces. As if poor Ramsey didnt realise it was a horror injury himself but he must have felt a whole lot worse when he saw the absolute horror on everyones face.

All in all I think the ref had to send him off. A kick direct into an opponents leg at that force has to be outlawed from the game to avoid a repeat of those injuries. It wasnt like it was a tackle from the side or whatever - Ramsey was directly in front of him.

G1032

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Definitely. Can't believe the other thread on here about it. A 19 year old is lying in hospital with his leg shattered and people are far more worried how Ryan Shawcross looks or what Arsene Wenger said about him.

How many more legs/ankles is Shawcross going to break before he gets a lenghty ban?

Peyton Manning

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Definitely. Can't believe the other thread on here about it. A 19 year old is lying in hospital with his leg shattered and people are far more worried how Ryan Shawcross looks or what Arsene Wenger said about him.

Thats just not true though. The vast vast majority of people who have claimed there was no malice in the tackle have also wished Ramsey nothing but the best in his recovery.

Hammer Archer

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDVgj9

is this not two footed?

Eh no it's not. Am I missing something I see Shawcross' left foot in contact with Ramsey's right with Shawcross' right foot half a yard away.
This article sums it up nicely I think
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/ramsey-injury-shows-bad-things-can-happen-by-accident-2084162.html

G1032

Redzer7 wrote: »

My self didn't think there was any malice but hey thats just me.

Malice or no malice Redzer, Shawcross went in to rough Ramsey up. The broken legs the Arsenal players have suffered is an inevitable consequence of the severe over the top challenges being put in on them.
Ans it's going to happen again unless these kind of tackles are stamped out.

Pepe LeFrits

Oh sweeeeet jesus, we've already got the Ramsey discussion going in two other threads, do we have to have it here too? It's going round and round in circles and I've been trying to avoid it...

FUNKY LOVER

and i think this sums it up nicely
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8542777.stm

m@cc@

Mr Alan wrote: »

has their been a single non arsenal fan who thinks it was anything more than an accident on this site since it happened? I don't think so tbh. Says a lot.

Well even look at this way, what possible motivation would there be for breaking Ramsey's leg. If you wanted to injure a player, would you not go for Arshavin or Fabregas?

FUNKY LOVER

m@cc@ wrote: »

Well even look at this way, what possible motivation would there be for breaking Ramsey's leg. If you wanted to injure a player, would you not go for Arshavin or Fabregas?

speka volumes of your iq by saying its ok to try break a players leg.

once again noone said it was on purpose.

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

has their been a single non arsenal fan who thinks it was anything more than an accident on this site since it happened? I don't think so tbh. Says a lot.

god you still are missing the point,we know he didnt intentionally break his leg,its the wrecklesness that people are defending:rolleyes:

m@cc@

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

speka volumes of your iq by saying its ok to try break a players leg.

once again noone said it was on purpose.

a: whats does it have to do with intelligence? Someone could just be a nasty f***er.

b: quote where I said it was ok to do it

FUNKY LOVER

m@cc@ wrote: »

a: whats does it have to do with intelligence? Someone could just be a nasty f***er.

b: quote where I said it was ok to do it

well why did you suggest he should have went for fabregas or arshavins leg if he meant to do it?

m@cc@

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well why did you suggest he should have went for fabregas or arshavins leg if he meant to do it?

I didn't suggest he SHOULD, I implied he WOULD.

FUNKY LOVER

m@cc@ wrote: »

I didn't suggest he SHOULD, I implied he WOULD.

well seems arshavin wasnt even playing it suggests you didnt even watch the gane so you can only be here to wind people up,i couldnt be bothered,its all been said in this thread already.

m@cc@

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well seems arshavin wasnt even playing it suggests you didnt even watch the gane so you can only be here to wind people up,i couldnt be bothered,its all been said in this thread already.

I didn't see the game, but I seen the tackle many times. Interesting how you can't counter my point without resorting to implying that I'm on a wind-up. Poor.

Bodhisopha

I wonder if Pulis used the words "go", "in" and "hard" more often than usual in his teamtalk considering it was Arsenal they were playing.

Frisbee

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well seems arshavin wasnt even playing it suggests you didnt even watch the gane so you can only be here to wind people up,i couldnt be bothered,its all been said in this thread already.

It happened in 5 seconds.

Watching MotD or looking at the dozens of pictures and videos spread across this and the match thread are enough for people to see to judge the challenge.

You didn't have to see 90 minutes to have an opinion on that tackle.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

FUNKY LOVER

well why did you say if shawcross meant to injure a player he would have went for fabregas or arshavin?was arshavin even playing...

d22ontour

Godge wrote: »

The way that Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland, Hull and Birmingham play football is a sickness at the heart of the Premiership.

And what way should they play ? Attacking football i suppose,maybe you could add another 10 teams to your list considering the style of football most teams play in that league.... :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

Funky Lover, the part you seem to be missing, is that i don't think the tackle was particularly reckless. No more so than dozens of tackles we see every weekend, incl those from Arsenal players.