Aaron Ramsey tackle.

m@cc@

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well why did you say if shawcross meant to injure a player he would have went for fabregas or arshavin?was arshavin even playing...

If it's not sinking in for you at this stage, I suspect it never will. Move on.

Mr Alan

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I wonder if Pulis used the words "go", "in" and "hard" more often than usual in his teamtalk considering it was Arsenal they were playing.

not likely, they commited 14 fouls in the whole game.

Everton commited 19 against Spurs at the weekend. Blackburn, 25 against Liverpool. Chelsea 22, against City. Man Utd 12 against Villa.

it was not a particularly physical game at all. despite what some people are trying to say.

FUNKY LOVER

look why cant people understand were not saying he set out to injure a player?god stop listening to the english media listen to what people are saying...

FUNKY LOVER

broadband not working so my replies might look odd compared to other answers,god this is slow!

monkey9

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

look why cant people understand were not saying he set out to injure a player?god stop listening to the english media listen to what people are saying...

Indeed

the1andonly1

Ok, I'll preface this by saying I'm an Arsenal fan.

I agree with nearly everyone who says that the tackle itself wasn't malicious, but still I don't think it's a coincidence that 3 Arsenal players over the last 4 years have fallen victim to similar type consequences. Its not necessarily that teams go out to "rough em up", but rather that when they do, Arsenal's players are too quick for them. Arsenals brand of football is worlds apart from that advocated by the likes of Stoke, Hull etc...it's based upon technically gifted players who are quick footed, who pass the ball around the pitch at pace, and tend to be less well built than other teams. This is the way football has become over the last couple of years, the game has gotten faster and therefore when these bad tackles go in, the consequences can be terrible. This incident and the Eduardo one before it both came as a result of the Arsenal player getting to the ball just before their opponent.

The question I'm wondering is whether people/the FA are ok with it? If you take a look at Spanish football, referees allow much more protection of players than their English counterparts. I think you either accept that broken legs can happen occasionally in the English game or you tilt the balance in favour of the attacking team and away from the defender. That's not to say that the game should be come a non contact sport, but that bad challenges (like this one and many others in the premier league that do not cause the same devastating results) should be dealt with more seriously than they are now. Maybe it will change the game, but in my mind its for the better

Anyway, hope Aaron Ramsey recovers and fulfils his potential, he was looking pretty special before this happened.

Mr Alan

i agree wit a lot of the above. A perfect example is Xabi Alonso, had his ankle broken twice because of the speed of his feet (once against arsenal iirc). Its not that people intentionally try and hurt him, but that his speed of thought and feet are on a different level to most other people. Check out the amount of red cards given for tackles on him last season which confirms my point imo. Arsenal have an abundance of these kind of players, which is one of the reasons they are so good to watch, but it will lead to more injuries than most, as evidenced by arsenals constantly huge injury list and the 3 bad breaks.

jank

Mr Alan wrote: »

has their been a single non arsenal fan who thinks it was anything more than an accident on this site since it happened? I don't think so tbh. Says a lot.

I see you are in the early running for the boards soccer award 2010. Have a guess with category?

Bodhisopha

Mr Alan wrote: »

not likely, they commited 14 fouls in the whole game.

Everton commited 19 against Spurs at the weekend. Blackburn, 25 against Liverpool. Chelsea 22, against City. Man Utd 12 against Villa.

it was not a particularly physical game at all. despite what some people are trying to say.

Fouls and going in hard are two different things.

Come on, we all know that a great tackle against Arsenal is one where you get the ball and hit the man hard and many teams are sent on to the pitch with those instructions ringing in their ears.

Kold

the1andonly1 wrote: »

Ok, I'll preface this by saying I'm an Arsenal fan.

I agree with nearly everyone who says that the tackle itself wasn't malicious, but still I don't think it's a coincidence that 3 Arsenal players over the last 4 years have fallen victim to similar type consequences. Its not necessarily that teams go out to "rough em up", but rather that when they do, Arsenal's players are too quick for them. Arsenals brand of football is worlds apart from that advocated by the likes of Stoke, Hull etc...it's based upon technically gifted players who are quick footed, who pass the ball around the pitch at pace, and tend to be less well built than other teams. This is the way football has become over the last couple of years, the game has gotten faster and therefore when these bad tackles go in, the consequences can be terrible. This incident and the Eduardo one before it both came as a result of the Arsenal player getting to the ball just before their opponent.

The question I'm wondering is whether people/the FA are ok with it? If you take a look at Spanish football, referees allow much more protection of players than their English counterparts. I think you either accept that broken legs can happen occasionally in the English game or you tilt the balance in favour of the attacking team and away from the defender. That's not to say that the game should be come a non contact sport, but that bad challenges (like this one and many others in the premier league that do not cause the same devastating results) should be dealt with more seriously than they are now. Maybe it will change the game, but in my mind its for the better

Anyway, hope Aaron Ramsey recovers and fulfils his potential, he was looking pretty special before this happened.

I don't think that Arsenal are the only ones that have quick footed players. I just think that ever so often something like this happens and it's a bit freakish when it does. I think that football in England, despite the lack of video assistance, is played about right. I don't see what punishing Shawcross any more for that tackle would achieve. It really just doesn't look that bad a challenge, merely a split second late. We can't have players terrified of making challenges as if everyone was on several yellows anyway.

MaxPower89

I agree with a lot of what the1andonly1 above. The tackle was not malicious in any way, and completely acceptable in the premiership I think. I do think that he was out of control to some extent

I do feel that questions do need to be asked of the acceptability of these challenges though.

What if Shawcross goes out next week and performs another of these acceptable slightly mistimed, but did go for the ball tackles, and breaks another players leg? Where does that leave this argument?

kmart6

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Fouls and going in hard are two different things.

Come on, we all know that a great tackle against Arsenal is one where you get the ball and hit the man hard and many teams are sent on to the pitch with those instructions ringing in their ears.

Is that right?!

So I take it you've been involved in pre-game meetings with the majority of Premiership clubs to make a statement like that, because otherwise your just making it up, and it's an invalid point!

Frisbee

kmart6 wrote: »

So I take it you've been involved in pre-game meetings with the majority of Premiership clubs to make a statement like that, because otherwise your just making it up, and it's an invalid point!

He doesn't have to. Many players and managers have said in pre and post game interviews that the way to beat Arsenal is to get in their faces, go in hard, that Arsenal 'don't like it up them'.

It's no secret that to beat Arsenal you need to rough them up and opposition managers and players don't try and hide this, they talk about it quite openly.

Mr Alan

jank wrote: »

I see you are in the early running for the boards soccer award 2010. Have a guess with category?

Sound.

kmart6

kmart6 wrote: »

I haven't read through the entire thread but I myself don't think it was a red card tackle, I just think that the result of it, history with Arsenal players and the reaction of players played a part!

I don;t know if this has been mentioned at all....but Kudos to Glen Whelan for the way he reacted to the situation! Instead of losing the plot like some of the Arsenal players he seemed to be very calm and collected throughout the entire situation! You could see him talking to Ramsey trying to calm him, as well keeping him from looking at it! Credit where credits due guys!

Fair play to you Glen Whelan

Whelan concedes Shawcross' tackle was late, but he does not believe there was any malice in the challenge or that the 22-year-old set out to hurt the Gunners' youngster.
Disappointed

"He was obviously disappointed because of what happened with the boy," explained Whelan.

"I haven't seen the tackle again, but when I first saw it I don't think it was a dirty tackle.

"I think it was maybe a little bit late but no more."

Whelan was the first man in to console Ramsey and he has revealed he just told the youngster to try not to think about the horrible injury.

"I was the next one in after the tackle and seen what's gone on," he continued. "The lad himself kept trying to look and hold his leg.

"I was just trying to take his mind off it and try not to think about it and think about something else."

Link...

Paulegend

stop winging voyuers

April 2006 : Diaby breaks leg
Wenger on Sunderland defender Dan Smith


Quote:
When you play football and you play against people who do not try to play, it’s very difficult to take
Quote:
An accident can happen and you will accept that, but the way this happened is not acceptable.

Feburary 2008 : Eduardo breaks his leg

Wenger's on Martin Taylor :

Quote:
The tackle was horrendous and this guy ( Martin Taylor ) should never play football again
Quote:
The worst thing you hear after is that 'he's not the kind of guy who usually does that', but you need to only kill one person one time - it's enough
Feburary 2010 : Ramsey breaks his leg

Wenger on Ryan Shawcross

Quote:
The tackle from Shawcross was horrendous. Spare me how nice he is. Did you see where the injury is? It is not acceptable that we lost three players to bad tackles – Abou Diaby, Eduardo and now Ramsey. To lose a player of quality at 19 like Ramsey is hard to accept. That is not football for me and I refuse to live with it. The FA have to act.’

Janurary 2010 : Bolton's Mark Davies lucky not to have his leg broken by William Gallas

Wenger on Gallas :

Quote:
There was a bit of an over-reaction with the way it was treated. If it is a bad, malicious tackle I can understand that it is shown every half an hour, but the way that happened, it can happen every game
Hold that thought Arsene "But the way it happened, it can happen every game"


It's actually quite laughable how much of a hypocrite he can be

Paulegend

Papa Smut wrote: »

Welcome to the Arsenal thread.

Well done.

sorry:) just not happy at the stuff been said about shawcross in the aftermat of the "challenge"

L'prof

Paulegend wrote: »

stop winging voyuers

April 2006 : Diaby breaks leg
Wenger on Sunderland defender Dan Smith


Quote:
When you play football and you play against people who do not try to play, it’s very difficult to take
Quote:
An accident can happen and you will accept that, but the way this happened is not acceptable.

Feburary 2008 : Eduardo breaks his leg

Wenger's on Martin Taylor :

Quote:
The tackle was horrendous and this guy ( Martin Taylor ) should never play football again
Quote:
The worst thing you hear after is that 'he's not the kind of guy who usually does that', but you need to only kill one person one time - it's enough
Feburary 2010 : Ramsey breaks his leg

Wenger on Ryan Shawcross

Quote:
The tackle from Shawcross was horrendous. Spare me how nice he is. Did you see where the injury is? It is not acceptable that we lost three players to bad tackles – Abou Diaby, Eduardo and now Ramsey. To lose a player of quality at 19 like Ramsey is hard to accept. That is not football for me and I refuse to live with it. The FA have to act.’

Janurary 2010 : Bolton's Mark Davies lucky not to have his leg broken by William Gallas

Wenger on Gallas :

Quote:
There was a bit of an over-reaction with the way it was treated. If it is a bad, malicious tackle I can understand that it is shown every half an hour, but the way that happened, it can happen every game
Hold that thought Arsene "But the way it happened, it can happen every game"


It's actually quite laughable how much of a hypocrite he can be

It's actually laughable that you'd post that here and expect anyone to agree with you.

3 of those comments were made after one of our players had their leg broken, two of them were awful challenges and one of them just a bit late/clumsy/unfortunate.

The Gallas tackle was just that, late/clumsy/unfortunate but Gallas didn't lung at anyone, he didn't fly in with his studs, he didn't go over ball height and didn't break any bones. There's a massive difference! Here's what Townsend had to say about it.

leninbenjamin

from arseblog

In the first half Cesc slid in on Shawcross, admittedly a little from behind, but he got the ball and hardly any of the man. Shawcross went beserk, moaning at the referee about the tackle. This is a big, hard centre-half who doesn't like to be tackled yet is more than happy to dish it out. More than happy to put his laces through the ball ... oh, ball's gone ... and now it's somebody's shin.

and another reckless hack by Shawcross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImCLHKXTOs

Ramsey certainly wont be the last leg he breaks if he keeps at that sh*te.

RandolphEsq

Degag wrote: »

Graphic Image - http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00096/ramsey2_682x511_96158a.jpg

As i pointed out in the other thread i think this seems to show that Ramsey's foot gave way before Shawcrosses challenge.

Shawcross' face cold and calm; the face of a hardened assassin or enthusiastic butcher

karma_

Just watched the footage from immediately after the tackle, and I have to say fair play to Whelan, he stayed with Ramsay the whole time, I'm extremely surprised by the time it took his teammates to go to the lad, but Whelan was there until the stretchers arrived.

Frisbee

Paulegend wrote: »

sorry:) just not happy at the stuff been said about shawcross in the aftermat of the "challenge"

No idea why you have challenge in inverted commas.

Are you implying the challenge never happened?

Also if your looking to discuss the challenge/aftermath then surely the thread dedicated to it would be a better bet?

kmart6

karma_ wrote: »

Just watched the footage from immediately after the tackle, and I have to say fair play to Whelan, he stayed with Ramsay the whole time, I'm extremely surprised by the time it took his teammates to go to the lad, but Whelan was there until the stretchers arrived.

Did you just read my post and decide to shorten it in your own way!?

leninbenjamin

karma_ wrote: »

Just watched the footage from immediately after the tackle, and I have to say fair play to Whelan, he stayed with Ramsay the whole time, I'm extremely surprised by the time it took his teammates to go to the lad, but Whelan was there until the stretchers arrived.

Whelan was the nearest player on the pitch to the tackle. Bendtner was there like a shot too. Fabregas, the next nearest player, turned away and started (what looks to be) retching. Most of them were in shock looking at the fracture, it's not a pretty sight to see that type of thing up close and personal. I don't think it's fair to blame them for their reaction.

karma_

kmart6 wrote: »

Did you just read my post and decide to shorten it in your own way!?

Well no, I saw the post where you quote yourself at the top of the page and went to watch the video as I hadn't seen it yet. I did go back a few pages to thank your post but couldn't see it in the last 2 or 3 so gave up.

I was really just backing up your point, as I do think Whelan deserves credit for his actions.

I have no other agenda, but thanks for pointing that out.

kmart6

Ah no your grand....my post was 10 pages or so back at this stage!

leninbenjamin

Dangerhere.com conducted an interesting little experiment.

A google search for the exact phrase "Feel sorry for Ryan Shawcross" returns 543 archived matches, whereas a google search for "Feel sorry for Aaron Ramsey" returns a grand total of 10 matches.

And people accuse us Arsenal fans of being biased. lol.

SlickRic

that is because people knew Shawcross would probably be absolutely pilloried, so people are quick to be more outspoken and back him a bit.

mass sympathy for Aaron Ramsey, i think, can be assumed.

FUNKY LOVER

taken from A-M.
the biased media bandwagon are now on our case, its ironic how shawcross is now being portrayed as the victim almost, only in england i tell you. from it starting as a nothing tackle to progressing to a valid bread and butter 50-50, ****ers are now trying to claim that he broke his leg BEFORE he was even tackled and that shawcross doesn't deserve a booking of any sort let alone the red card.

had this been the other way around, had a english player or an england international had his leg broken by a foreigner, especially one from our team, you can bet they'd be calling for a global ban at minimum. i've never been one for dirty tactics and over the top tackling but it seems that to survive in this league, you either have to break legs or get yours broken, hell at any rate, we should probably get in a few local players just to break the opposition in half, we could just sell them for a massive profit after they get their international call ups, we'd also probably end up with better support from the media and officials.

mayordenis

I won't say anything like all Arsenal fans, because I know like every set of fans the majority are level headed,
but there is a few on here who are already bunkered into a siege mentality, every single poster here will tell you they are gutted absolutely gutted for Aaron Ramsey, every single person here.

However, the obvious person to try and give the blame to is Shawcross and there is nothing wrong with people showing support for him, as for some in media making it out that Ryan is the victim, you shouldn't blame the media for that, that was fully made by Wenger's comments, massivly inappropriate comments at that.

Iago

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

i've never been one for dirty tactics and over the top tackling but it seems that to survive in this league, you either have to break legs or get yours broken,

Yes, because that's exactly what United and Chelsea have been doing all these years.

The level of over the top drama about this whole thing is unbelievable.

leninbenjamin

SlickRic wrote: »

that is because people knew Shawcross would probably be absolutely pilloried, so people are quick to be more outspoken and back him a bit.

mass sympathy for Aaron Ramsey, i think, can be assumed.

Aye I know, meant that as tongue in cheek tbh. It's just reflective of how sidetracked we've all become (Arsenal and non Arsenal fans alike) with the whole Shawcross debate and missed the point a wee bit. Ramsey's welfare has been overlooked in many places.

FUNKY LOVER

mayordenis wrote: »

I won't say anything like all Arsenal fans, because I know like every set of fans the majority are level headed,
but there is a few on here who are already bunkered into a siege mentality, every single poster here will tell you they are gutted absolutely gutted for Aaron Ramsey, every single person here.

However, the obvious person to try and give the blame to is Shawcross and there is nothing wrong with people showing support for him, as for some in media making it out that Ryan is the victim, you shouldn't blame the media for that, that was fully made by Wenger's comments, massivly inappropriate comments at that.

what comments?god he daid stuff in the heat of the moment,after watching yet another 1 of his players legs get broken,you would swear you have never lost your cool in the heat of the moment:rolleyes:

mayordenis

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

what comments?god he daid stuff in the heat of the moment,after watching yet another 1 of his players legs get broken,you would swear you have never lost your cool in the heat of the moment:rolleyes:

Everyone does, but he's a huge figure in world football, petulant outbursts against young players are inappropriate in his position.

leninbenjamin

mayordenis wrote: »

Everyone does, but he's a huge figure in world football, petulant outbursts against young players are inappropriate in his position.

Ah now the remarks against Shawcross weren't half as bad as those against Taylor. The two words used in relation to the tackle that has everyone up in arms are 'horrendous' and 'unacceptable' but neither say anything about Shawcross' character like stupid hacks like Lou Macari would have you believe. If Arsenal fans are overreacting to an "innocuous" challenge with "unfortunate" results, then non-Arsenal fans are equally guilty for making far too much out of Wenger's comments, which literally just express his unhappiness with the tackle and nothing else in relation to Shawcross.

FUNKY LOVER

mayordenis wrote: »

Everyone does, but he's a huge figure in world football, petulant outbursts against young players are inappropriate in his position.

age should be no excuse reason or factor in this,a leg was broke for ffs,hes a big boy shawcross,im sure wengers comments wont stop him from sleeping at night.......

Draupnir

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

im sure wengers comments wont stop him from sleeping at night.......

I seriously think you are underestimating the impact causing an injury like that can have on a player who doesn't intend to do it, I'd say Shawcross has had trouble sleeping for the last few days without doubt.

FUNKY LOVER

Draupnir wrote: »

I seriously think you are underestimating the impact causing an injury like that can have on a player who doesn't intend to do it, I'd say Shawcross has had trouble sleeping for the last few days without doubt.

well seems he broke jeffers ankle before im sure he is used to it:D

http://arsenalaction.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/shawcross-is-a-thug-has-done-it-before-just-ask-francis-jeffers/

Draupnir

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well seems he broke jeffers ankle before im sure he is used to it:D

http://arsenalaction.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/shawcross-is-a-thug-has-done-it-before-just-ask-francis-jeffers/

Ah yes, an Arsenal blog, bound to be rounded debate on the matter!

FUNKY LOVER

Draupnir wrote: »

Ah yes, an Arsenal blog, bound to be rounded debate on the matter!

em i was just trying to show the evidence he broke an ankle before its the only quote i could find??do you not believe he did it before??:rolleyes:

oconnon9

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

well seems he broke jeffers ankle before im sure he is used to it:D

http://arsenalaction.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/shawcross-is-a-thug-has-done-it-before-just-ask-francis-jeffers/

its a physical game. why do u think players wear shinguards? get over it and move on. 50-50 tackle

keano_afc

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ah now the remarks against Shawcross weren't half as bad as those against Taylor. The two words used in relation to the tackle that has everyone up in arms are 'horrendous' and 'unacceptable' but neither say anything about Shawcross' character like stupid hacks like Lou Macari would have you believe. If Arsenal fans are overreacting to an "innocuous" challenge with "unfortunate" results, then non-Arsenal fans are equally guilty for making far too much out of Wenger's comments, which literally just express his unhappiness with the tackle and nothing else in relation to Shawcross.

That article from Macari is one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever read.

oconnon9

keano_afc wrote: »

That article from Macari is one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever read.

i agreed with everything he said! what u disagree with?

L'prof

Is this really not finished yet?

Shawcross made late, clumsy, unintentional foul on Ramsey in a genuine effort to get the ball. Ramsey's standing leg snaps like a twig. Ramsey is brought straight to hospital for an operation which goes well. Wenger is angry and says so in his interview. The end.

mayordenis

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

em i was just trying to show the evidence he broke an ankle before its the only quote i could find??do you not believe he did it before??:rolleyes:

What is wrong with you?

Nobody doesn't believe that an other tackle he made broke someones ankle, however it doesn't prove that he is a thug as you incredibly biased link suggests.

You should probably stop with the rolleyes and the rest of the bull****.

FUNKY LOVER

mayordenis wrote: »

What is wrong with you?

Nobody doesn't believe that an other tackle he made broke someones ankle, however it doesn't prove that he is a thug as you incredibly biased link suggests.

You should probably stop with the rolleyes and the rest of the bull****.

ughhh brick wall,english media,brainwash comes to mind im done:cool:

FUNKY LOVER

this is taken from arseblog for anyone who wants a good read about the incident,instead of having to read lou macaris ****e.

yes im aware its from an arsenal fan hence me telling its from arseblog,if you dont wanna read it dont.

well worth a read


http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

SlickRic

ha, Macari.

i supported Team Shawcross (:D) in the whole Shawcross/Wenger thing.

now i know Macari's opinion, i may have to re-think.

i can't possibly be seen to even slightly agree with that sorry excuse for a football pundit.

calling him abysmal would be kind.

how he has a job doing two things he completely sucks at, God only knows.

mayordenis

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

ughhh brick wall,english media,brainwash comes to mind im done:cool:

What are you on about?

greendom

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ah now the remarks against Shawcross weren't half as bad as those against Taylor. The two words used in relation to the tackle that has everyone up in arms are 'horrendous' and 'unacceptable' but neither say anything about Shawcross' character like stupid hacks like Lou Macari would have you believe. If Arsenal fans are overreacting to an "innocuous" challenge with "unfortunate" results, then non-Arsenal fans are equally guilty for making far too much out of Wenger's comments, which literally just express his unhappiness with the tackle and nothing else in relation to Shawcross.

OMG from reading that Macari article I was beginning to think that Shawcross had had his leg broken - Lou pours so much sympathy over him he's practically drowning. In that article he certainly displayed zero sympathy to Ramsey.