Aaron Ramsey tackle.

OPENROAD

mayordenis wrote: »

I won't say anything like all Arsenal fans, because I know like every set of fans the majority are level headed,
but there is a few on here who are already bunkered into a siege mentality, every single poster here will tell you they are gutted absolutely gutted for Aaron Ramsey, every single person here.

However, the obvious person to try and give the blame to is Shawcross and there is nothing wrong with people showing support for him, as for some in media making it out that Ryan is the victim, you shouldn't blame the media for that, that was fully made by Wenger's comments, massivly inappropriate comments at that.

When people turn it around to have a go at Wenger and call hom a hypoctite, I think you can see why Arsenal fans might get upset.

Mr Alan

he is a hypocrite. all managers are. but he is worse than most.

noodler

He is a hypocrite.

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

When people turn it around to have a go at Wenger and call hom a hypoctite

yes, it's claimed he's having an unwarranted go at Shawcross, asking for an undeserved extended ban. that's fine. you can complain about that, absolutely.

but i'm not sure i would call him a hypocrite; no more than any other manager who doesn't see the thuggish or cheating things his own players do (referring to Gallas v Mark Davies)...is this what people mean by hypocrite??

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

he is a hypocrite. all managers are. but he is worse than most.

You are right about all managers,although and most fans are to be honest, look what happens when people have a go at Rafa

Mr Alan

ollie kay also read out an interesting quote from him on the guardian podcast i listened to this morning, the quote was from a few years ago when arsenal were a tough tackling dirty enough team when he was defending their shocking disciplinary record by saying that people had to decide wat they wanted, that there would always be bad tackles etc when the game was played with the passion that it was in england, but that's wat makes the game great there.

noodler

OPENROAD wrote: »

You are right about all managers,although and most fans are to be honest, look what happens when people have a go at Rafa

Pretty transparent attempt to change the subject.

More like, look what happens when people have a go at Wenger.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

ollie kay also read out an interesting quote from him on the guardian podcast from a fews ago when arsenal were a tough tackling dirty enough team when he was defending their shocking disciplinary record by saying that people had to decide wat they wanted, that there would always be bad tackles etc when the game was played with the passion it was in england, but that's wat makes the game great there.

And we were crucified in the press at the time when we had that poor disiplinary record and were quite physical, seems things are treated differently now. Not sure how much of Arsenal you saw arond that time, but some bookings we used to get were an absolute joke.

As for digging out old quotes, we can all do that you know don't think it brings much to the discussion though.

OPENROAD

noodler wrote: »

Pretty transparent attempt to change the subject.

More like, look what happens when people have a go at Wenger.

Hey set up a thread if you want about hypocrits in the game if you want, we can have a great discussion digging up stuff on all managers and trade insults and show the double standards.

Mr Alan

when the quote show's how hypocritical he's being, it brings quite a lot to be honest.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

when the quote show's how hypocritical he's being, it brings quite a lot to be honest.

Wenger never comes out and criticises his own players in public, does it make him a hypocrite? Hardly ffs! What he says to the media and what he actually thinks don't necessarily have to be the same thing! If that makes him a hypocrite in your eyes then, fair enough.

greendom

he's not being hypocritical though. Through thick and thin, whatever the circumstances, he will always defend his players. I don't think you can ask anymore of a manager

Mr Alan

saying tough tackling passionate football is wat makes english football great, and then calling for people who are tough tackling and passionate to receive lengthy bans when a couple of his players are on the wrong end of the very type of tackles he was justifying before is hypocritical in the extreme.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

saying tough tackling passionate football is wat makes english football great, and then calling for people who are tough tackling and passionate to receive lengthy bans when a couple of his players are on the wrong end of the very type of tackles he was justifying before is hypocritical in the extreme.

Show me exact quotes in full. I doubt Wenger ever used those words and as usual they have been misinterpreted.

greendom

Mr Alan wrote: »

saying tough tackling passionate football is wat makes english football great, and then calling for people who are tough tackling and passionate to receive lengthy bans when a couple of his players are on the wrong end of the very type of tackles he was justifying before is hypocritical in the extreme.

I had a little look back and found this where Wenger defends his players, not for being dirty though...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/11/01/980224.htm

N.B "I never tell a player to kick an opponent."

Mr Alan

thats not the quote i was refering to.

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

thats not the quote i was refering to.

which qoute is it?

greendom

This one...?

“What makes English football loved all over the world is that there is commitment and fight, and sometimes it goes a bit overboard.

“You shouldn’t over-react like we have done, but you also shouldn’t take out what makes the charm of English football.

“You cannot imagine that football is like ballet-dancing, it’s about playing in a fair way but with the necessary commitment to make the game attractive.”

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2003/0927/sport/were-only-human-says-wenger-115169.html#ixzz0h3KywDWx

Mr Alan

something like that. contrast that to his view on shawcross' tackle and how players should get long bans and how refs should protect them more.

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

something like that. contrast that to his view on shawcross' tackle and how players should get long bans and how refs should protect them more.

em wher is this quote?that quote above actually disproves your statement,if you read it wenger says its about been committed in a fair way,not going onto a pitch and fouling on purpose and getting into a teams face by roughing them up.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

something like that. contrast that to his view on shawcross' tackle and how players should get long bans and how refs should protect them more.

Nothing hypocritical there at all.

Le King

It's a bad tackle, no malice in it. Get over it.

Mr Alan

shawcross was commited in a fair way imo, certainly as fair a way as many of the players wenger has defended in the past. Incl gallas only a few weeks ago, who's foul was much much much worse than shawcross

greendom

Mr Alan wrote: »

something like that. contrast that to his view on shawcross' tackle and how players should get long bans and how refs should protect them more.

I don't see the contradiction between his quotes on Sunday and those in 2003 ?

Mr Alan

greendom wrote: »

I don't see the contradiction between his quotes on Sunday and those in 2003 ?

On Sunday he was calling for an end to tackles like Shawcross' one, hard but not dirty. He was calling for them to be protected in 2003 as its wat made the english game special.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

shawcross was commited in a fair way imo, certainly as fair a way as many of the players wenger has defended in the past. Incl gallas only a few weeks ago, who's foul was much much much worse than shawcross weeks ago

From that quote...and I quote:

What makes English football loved all over the world is that there is commitment and fight, and sometimes it goes a bit overboard.

Wenger wrote:

What makes English football loved all over the world is that there is commitment and fight, and sometimes it goes a bit overboard.

You shouldn’t over-react like we have done, but you also shouldn’t take out what makes the charm of English football.

You're making it out to be something it's not!

Mr Alan

'you also shouldn't take out what makes the charm of english football', then on sunday he calls for extra protection from english refs and that tackles like shawcross(which wasn't really bad) should be punished.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

'you also shouldn't take out what makes the charm of english football', then on sunday he calls for extra protection from english refs and that tackles like shawcross(which wasn't really bad) should be punished.

He's not talking about tough challenges there though, I know you really want him to be but, he's not! What makes English football great is the pace and commitment it's played with, constantly putting teams under pressure.

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

'you also shouldn't take out what makes the charm of english football', then on sunday he calls for extra protection from english refs and that tackles like shawcross(which wasn't really bad) should be punished.

oh god why are you still arguing this,he means the passion and commitment,but he says there is a line you shouldnt cross-lunging in at 200 mph for a ball and snapping someones leg...

Mr Alan

What makes English football great is the pace and commitment it's played with

Which is exactly wat caused Shawcross tackle in my opinion.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Shawcross' tackle can also be deemed slightly high and overly forceful. But that's open to differences of opinion.

In any case, I think we know how you feel at this stage Mr. Alan, why on earth does it bother you so much?

greendom

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

oh god why are you still arguing this,he means the passion and commitment,but he says there is a line you shouldnt cross-lunging in at 200 mph for a ball and snapping someones leg...

Absolutely;

show me the quote where Wenger defends a player whose actions broke the leg of an opponent - then you have a contradiction

Mr Alan

so its alright to commit a really bad tackle as long as you don't break a leg. I'm wit yas now

Mr Alan

playa3 wrote:

In any case, I think we know how you feel at this stage Mr. Alan, why on earth does it bother you so much?

Because Wenger is so respected in football, and his opinion matters. Him labelling shawcross as someone wit no respect for opponents will tarnish the young lads reputation for a long time. Already he's been called all sorts of names by some Arsenal fans here and on other sites.

greendom

Mr Alan wrote: »

so its alright to commit a really bad tackle as long as you don't break a leg. I'm wit yas now

Where does Wenger say it's ok to commit a really bad tackle?

Mr Alan

greendom wrote: »

Where does Wenger say it's ok to commit a really bad tackle?

Well he thought that too big a deal was made out of the Gallas tackle, despite it being a horror tackle. The shawcross one was not a really bad tackle at all, yet that one was totally unacceptable according to him.

FUNKY LOVER

tarnish the young lads rep ha ha mate i suppose you will be supporting england this summer!!

why do you have so much sympathy with shawcross it baffles me?did you ever meet him or something.and wenger is probably the least respected manager in terms of his opinion in england,everything he says the media twists and makes him look bad,and hence people like you listening to them and taking their side.

poor ryan though god his rep will be tarnished,even though he has a history of breaking ankles and going in late,its wengers fault if he has this rep.

lets feel for ryan and forget about ramsey who is lying in a hospital right now......

Mr Alan

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

tarnish the young lads rep ha ha mate i suppose you will be supporting england this summer!!

why do you have so much sympathy with shawcross it baffles me?did you ever meet him or something.and wenger is probably the least respected manager in terms of his opinion in england,everything he says the media twists and makes him look bad,and hence people like you listening to them and taking their side.

poor ryan though god his rep will be tarnished,even though he has a history of breaking ankles and going in late,its wengers fault if he has this rep.

lets feel for ryan and forget about ramsey who is lying in a hospital right now......

Everyone has sympathy for Ramsey, no one is tryin to assassinate his character. And yea i'll be cheering for England and Spain in the summer i reckon.

FUNKY LOVER

Mr Alan wrote: »

Everyone has sympathy for Ramsey, no one is tryin to assassinate his character. And yea i'll be cheering for England and Spain in the summer i reckon.

bloody right noone is trying to assasinate his character:mad:

mayordenis

I'll definately be up for england, as I'm not a big RA head or a biggot.

FUNKY LOVER

mayordenis wrote: »

I'll definately be up for england, as I'm not a big RA head or a biggot.

good for you!!

Ordinary man

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

tarnish the young lads rep ha ha mate i suppose you will be supporting england this summer!!

why do you have so much sympathy with shawcross it baffles me?did you ever meet him or something.and wenger is probably the least respected manager in terms of his opinion in england,everything he says the media twists and makes him look bad,and hence people like you listening to them and taking their side.

poor ryan though god his rep will be tarnished,even though he has a history of breaking ankles and going in late,its wengers fault if he has this rep.

lets feel for ryan and forget about ramsey who is lying in a hospital right now......

You do realise that the tackle being talked about happened in ENGLISH football? You remind me of the man protesting about foreign sports in croke park wearing the celtic jersey. This discussion is more or less over. Most neutrals believe it was accidental, most arsenal supporters believe it wasn't. Let it go. We all hope ramsey makes a full and speedy recovery and goes on to fulfill his massive potential

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Mr Alan wrote: »

Because Wenger is so respected in football, and his opinion matters. Him labelling shawcross as someone wit no respect for opponents will tarnish the young lads reputation for a long time. Already he's been called all sorts of names by some Arsenal fans here and on other sites.

Let's face it, unfortunately there is always going to be this kind of stuff directed at the player that causes an injury like this from the fans. What Wenger said wouldn't have had any influence on it. And also, going by the amount of sympathy Shawcross has received from the media and most other fans, I think it's safe to say it hasn't tarnished his reputation at all, not that I think what Wenger said was too over the top or even aimed directly at Shawcross.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well he thought that too big a deal was made out of the Gallas tackle, despite it being a horror tackle. The shawcross one was not a really bad tackle at all, yet that one was totally unacceptable according to him.

He apologised for that Gallas tackle I'll think you will find.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0121/wengera.html

Wenger said: 'I am sorry if the tackle was not good, and I apologise.

Anyway. That's me done with this topic, it really is ridiculous how unnecessarily long this has gone on for.

I just hope Aaron can recover and be back playing as soon as possible.

[edit]

Ordinary man wrote: »

You do realise that the tackle being talked about happened in ENGLISH football? You remind me of the man protesting about foreign sports in croke park wearing the celtic jersey. This discussion is more or less over. Most neutrals believe it was accidental, most arsenal supporters believe it wasn't. Let it go. We all hope ramsey makes a full and speedy recovery and goes on to fulfill his massive potential

Where you got this from I have absolutely no idea.

FUNKY LOVER

Ordinary man wrote: »

You do realise that the tackle being talked about happened in ENGLISH football? You remind me of the man protesting about foreign sports in croke park wearing the celtic jersey. This discussion is more or less over. Most neutrals believe it was accidental, most arsenal supporters believe it wasn't. Let it go. We all hope ramsey makes a full and speedy recovery and goes on to fulfill his massive potential

this is the point everyone is missing.arsenal fans KNOW he didnt do it on purpose as does wenger,its the clumsiness and wrecklesenss of the tackle we have a problem with.just like the media trying to twist words.

and i have no time for celtic ir the ira or any of that stupidity,and i hate GAA.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well he thought that too big a deal was made out of the Gallas tackle, despite it being a horror tackle. The shawcross one was not a really bad tackle at all, yet that one was totally unacceptable according to him.

Shawcross' tackle was worse than Gallas' in my opinion but, whatever!

FUNKY LOVER

ye im done too i think its just going around in circles at this stage.

cson

Can someone lock this? It's the same arguments being repeated ad infinitum. Good luck to Ramsey in what will hopefully be a full and speedy recovery.

Mr Alan

and lets hope Shawcross' good reputation is not tarnished by the comments from Wenger.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

and lets hope Shawcross' good reputation is not tarnished by the comments from Wenger.

Whatever...

G1032

Mr Alan wrote: »

and lets hope Shawcross' good reputation is not tarnished by the comments from Wenger.

His reputation? As that of a leg breaker is it? That seems to be what he's best at. 2 down so far and tried his best to do in Adeabayor. 2 arsenal players and an ex Arsenal player. Pattern there too.