Advice for a new drummer aged...25!

jackthelad321

hi there

i finally got around to getting a drum set, at 25, as i have always felt i would have an aptitude for it.

first thing i need to ask: does it matter coming to the set a little later than most drummers? this concerns me a lot since many people have the attitude ''things are harder the older you get'', which, if true (and it probably is), deflates me. One old drummer was quite negative, saying 'your muscles are developed now', as if to say 'what's the use?'

well, F*** him i thought

have been playing on the kit for around 3 months, nearly every day. I just wondered if anyone had some constructive comments, advice, exercises.

I am finding it hard to balance my practice. What i mean is i want to develop my left hand (weak) so it's almost as good as my right. the same goes for my Left foot and the hi hat, i feel i am over developing both my right limbs and abandoning the development of the left ones. i also have serious trouble with heel up and good posture when playing all four limbs together i.e. no hi hat foot grounded to balance me. and am overusing RLRLRLRL sticking, no RRLLRRLL or RLRRLRLL to speak of and little accents, flams or rolls yet.

I am serious about progression, due to my age and my newfound determination. i have learned the guitar since i was 15 but i did it arseways and am an average guitar player now.

My usual routine involves No stretching, some warm up exercises at around 100 bpm. then i play along to some of the strokes , not perfectly accurate, just the feel and underlying pulse. also curtis mayfield and al green keep usual standard 4/4 time with eight notes on the hat or ride and bass notes with odd hat foot 'chink'. Nice to play along to, don't feel like such a useless ****

otherwise i use a metronome fairly religiously. coordination is coming along ok i think. fills are still difficult for me. they just never sound right. I try to practice when i'm watching sports on tv on a practice pad. I can do 120 bpm in 16th notes left and right lead, about my limit now. I can read a bit of drum sheet music, but it still confuses me.

i saw a video on youtube, a guy subdividing 60 bpm into quarter, eight, triplet, 16th, up to 8 times divided. how do you count these (5,6,7,8)? i could do this as i can play 120bpm in 16th notes ok now. I feel this would be a great thing to practice, but i can't count past the 16th subdivisions. (1 E + A ...)

just as a closing note, i feel my belief slipping just a bit, and my enthusiasm beginning to wane.

learning materials I have include:
a new tune a day for drums, a tommy Igoe video 'getting started on drusm', some Joe Morello 'an approach to technique', and 'stick control' by George L. Stone.

does my progress sound decent? i know no drummers to assess my progress.

i have more things to say if i get some replies (Jesus i can't half ramble on)

thanks for your time!

JAK

Malice

The first time I got a drumkit into my house I was 30 so if you think you were too old at 25 I must have been prehistoric .

Unfortunately I only had the kit for a few months but I learnt my way around it. My practice regiment wasn't particularly structured. All I used to do was listen to a few of my favourite songs through headphones while banging away on the kit. If I got lost or couldn't duplicate the beat I was hearing on the song I'd either start again or take off the headphones and play the part slower a few times to get used to the arm and leg motions.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

dont mind the muscle bull**** - the only thing you may lack is a little less reaction time , and endurance as you age -but thats not even proven - many drummers are in their 70s and can outplay the kids.


i started drumming at 13 - never practiced a thing in me life - just played tunes , and joined bands .

gave up aged 27 then took em up again aged 38 - but this time retaught myself from scratch - using proper technique - 3 hours a day for 2 years .

you can do anything if you put your mind and time to it .

ive also taught myself fingerstyle bass, and piano since then.

if you are serious , you need to go thru the standard texts - stick control by george stone for hands and feet , is mandatory - but just do the first 8 pages or so and forget the rest .and get jo jo mayers dvds on technique .also learn the main rudiments , particulalry the paradiddle and use it around the kit , and keeping a groove .
paradiddle between hats snare and kick in various combos - is always a great feel and sound.

also the new breed book by gary chester - but this is a tough son of a bitch .
i got thru about 1/4 of it . but it really helps you open up and learn to read better.

you must learn the free stroke ( jo jos dvd ) and learn to play the main rudiments around the kit on all elements.

( singles , doubles , paradiddles , flams , flam a diddles would be best )

and learn to play a shuffle - like a chicago shuffle - best groove builder out there
( its a two handed shuffle on ride snare and kick )

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=q1glcc-XaKQ&feature=related



if you can play a shuffle well, you can consider yourself a drummer.



when learning drums dont even THINK about speed - concentrate on getting a good time keeping feel and tone - the slower the better - speed comes with time spent
this is the real test - to play with good time , good groove , and a good projecting tone .
the fancy stuff, though fun, is all candy .-- learn to play songs well.

getting to be a good groover is not too hard , relatviely speaking
but if you want to push into serious technique - you need to practise at least 14 hours a week minimum- and it takes a few years of this to open it all up freely and with speed.

i see so many people taking up drums only to stop when they realise how much time you need to put into practise just to be able to play anything well.

it is THE hardest popular instrument to learn , becasue it takes more time than any other .
and it takes alot of commitment .

jackthelad321

Wow! Thanks for the detailed reply, DaDumTish! I imagine anyone who has recently taken up drums will benefit from your comments. It really answered what I asked and gave me some new scope on time to practice each week as well as new things to consider. And i got the realistic, no-nonsense answers i badly needed. People can throw advice around without considering its soundness.

I had gotten so much conflicting information about the drums my head had begun to hurt!
(''you don't count like that you just play'', ''you're muscles are developed now'', ''if you can't get this immediately you're not a drummer'', ''sure its all about playing it fast, isn't it?'',''don't ever use a metronome, try to develop a natural timing'') WHAT!!!!

It really Is impossible to say if I'll keep up the drums, It is all so new to me, But i am as motivated as i could be, waking up aching to get on the kit. or if away from the kit doing some practice on a pad w/ a metronome. Obviously some days i do less than others, but it is a long term goal, i know from life now you can't expect to get anywhere fast. Or i could learn a few fast beats and a fill or two, and show that off and everyone who knows nothing of the drums would compliment me on it. But that isn't satisfying.

Up to now i have probably done 10 hours a week, i'll try to bump it up. I also have to be doing this, in 2-3 years, with as much enthusiasm, to become a good all-round drummer. This is what i do want and i believe it's possible but only with the aforementioned time and varied practices as mentioned by dadumtish. That's good to say. it's scary but achievable.

My new to do's: Get new sticks, maybe 5A (i have 7A vaters, sugar maple, no tips)

get the Jo Jo mayer Dvds

Do more Stick control (incidentally, i had only printed out the first 10 pages; i'll do those)

Try to get a grip on timing and rudiments.

in other news, I will be going to Asia soon for 6 months, and i intend to do my 14 hours a week, for the whole time. except it'll all be on a practice pad with a built in metronome. so.... what about the foot coordination? just tap away? can you create makeshift pedals? like a sponge or (my crazy one) two halves of a tennis ball somehow secured to the floor?

Any advice, great or small, will be read, considered and appreciated.

Thanks again for the great comments, DaDumTish, and the link too! and Malice too.

your soon to be drummer (i'll nail the shuffle)

JACK

LD 50

DaDumTish wrote: »

dont mind the muscle bull**** - the only thing you may lack is a little less reaction time , and endurance as you age -but thats not even proven - many drummers are in their 70s and can outplay the kids.


i started drumming at 13 - never practiced a thing in me life - just played tunes , and joined bands .

gave up aged 27 then took em up again aged 38 - but this time retaught myself from scratch - using proper technique - 3 hours a day for 2 years .

you can do anything if you put your mind and time to it .

ive also taught myself fingerstyle bass, and piano since then.

if you are serious , you need to go thru the standard texts - stick control by george stone for hands and feet , is mandatory - but just do the first 8 pages or so and forget the rest .and get jo jo mayers dvds on technique .also learn the main rudiments , particulalry the paradiddle and use it around the kit , and keeping a groove .
paradiddle between hats snare and kick in various combos - is always a great feel and sound.

also the new breed book by gary chester - but this is a tough son of a bitch .
i got thru about 1/4 of it . but it really helps you open up and learn to read better.

you must learn the free stroke ( jo jos dvd ) and learn to play the main rudiments around the kit on all elements.

( singles , doubles , paradiddles , flams , flam a diddles would be best )

and learn to play a shuffle - like a chicago shuffle - best groove builder out there
( its a two handed shuffle on ride snare and kick )

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=q1glcc-XaKQ&feature=related



if you can play a shuffle well, you can consider yourself a drummer.



when learning drums dont even THINK about speed - concentrate on getting a good time keeping feel and tone - the slower the better - speed comes with time spent
this is the real test - to play with good time , good groove , and a good projecting tone .
the fancy stuff, though fun, is all candy .-- learn to play songs well.

getting to be a good groover is not too hard , relatviely speaking
but if you want to push into serious technique - you need to practise at least 14 hours a week minimum- and it takes a few years of this to open it all up freely and with speed.

i see so many people taking up drums only to stop when they realise how much time you need to put into practise just to be able to play anything well.

it is THE hardest popular instrument to learn , becasue it takes more time than any other .
and it takes alot of commitment .

I'll agree with most of what you said there, except for the bits I underlined. He doesn't have to learn the shuffle, or the free hand/moeller technique. And alot of jo jo's stuff is quite advanced, considering the OP only just started. Thats like me telling him he has to learn to play blastbeats. They're only a tool that can be utilized if needed. And that last bit is as bad as the BS he's been told about his muscles or being too old. He doesnt have to, but prob should in order to better himself as a well rounded player.

Jack, what kind of music are you playing? Rock, pop, jazz?
DVD's are good though, especially in lieu of lessons. I'm gonna recommend Thomas Lang's first DVD. I have it myself, and is good for beginners up to intermediate/adv players. Goes into practice techniques, patterns, applying rudiment to the kit, that sort of stuff.
A good video I particularily like is Tommy Igoe's "Lifetime Warmup" They took down the link where he explained it all. Damn, it was really good. But it was basically all the rudiments linked together.

If you haven't already, get your self a metronome. A good one. The extra features will come in handy as you get better. I have one, the Dr Beat(DR-30) I can set it to count everything between 1/4 to 9/4, counting whole, half, quarter, 8th, 16th notes, aswel as quarter and 8th triplets. Cost me about 50 or 70 quid though, but its worth it. Practicing with it will greatly increase your sense of timing and speed. And a practice pad to practice on. By pushing yourself, you'll get faster and more coordinated.
As for practising the rudiments with your feet, several companies make a practice pad that you attach to your pedal. Practice the rudiments with your feet while doing them with your hands. Start with you weak hand and foot, accenting it. That'll increase your weak side dominance. Aim to have one clean sound, not like you're flamming your hands and feet. Then switch it up. Lead with your left hand, and right foot. This'll increase your multi limb independence.

Experiment with stick sizes and brands till you find something that you're happy with. 5A's are a good all rounder size to start with. I've used alot of different sizes, 5A, 5B, 7A, extra long sticks. My current choice is Thomas Lang's Sig stick. Thats bigger than a 2B! But I find it comfortable, and they don't break as often.

Try not to pay attention to anything none drummers say. Its probably wrong. And alot of it will be conflicting. And they'll have no experience on if it works or not.

Congratulations though. You sound like you thoroughly enjoy it. But be warned, it can be a very expensive hobby. I'm E2,500 into my kit, and still want more. And its only an Export.

jackthelad321

LD 50 wrote: »

I'll agree with most of what you said there, except for the bits I underlined. He doesn't have to learn the shuffle, or the free hand/moeller technique. And alot of jo jo's stuff is quite advanced, considering the OP only just started. Thats like me telling him he has to learn to play blastbeats. They're only a tool that can be utilized if needed. And that last bit is as bad as the BS he's been told about his muscles or being too old. He doesnt have to, but prob should in order to better himself as a well rounded player.

Jack, what kind of music are you playing? Rock, pop, jazz?
DVD's are good though, especially in lieu of lessons. I'm gonna recommend Thomas Lang's first DVD. I have it myself, and is good for beginners up to intermediate/adv players. Goes into practice techniques, patterns, applying rudiment to the kit, that sort of stuff.
A good video I particularily like is Tommy Igoe's "Lifetime Warmup" They took down the link where he explained it all. Damn, it was really good. But it was basically all the rudiments linked together.

If you haven't already, get your self a metronome. A good one. The extra features will come in handy as you get better. I have one, the Dr Beat(DR-30) I can set it to count everything between 1/4 to 9/4, counting whole, half, quarter, 8th, 16th notes, aswel as quarter and 8th triplets. Cost me about 50 or 70 quid though, but its worth it. Practicing with it will greatly increase your sense of timing and speed. And a practice pad to practice on. By pushing yourself, you'll get faster and more coordinated.
As for practising the rudiments with your feet, several companies make a practice pad that you attach to your pedal. Practice the rudiments with your feet while doing them with your hands. Start with you weak hand and foot, accenting it. That'll increase your weak side dominance. Aim to have one clean sound, not like you're flamming your hands and feet. Then switch it up. Lead with your left hand, and right foot. This'll increase your multi limb independence.

Experiment with stick sizes and brands till you find something that you're happy with. 5A's are a good all rounder size to start with. I've used alot of different sizes, 5A, 5B, 7A, extra long sticks. My current choice is Thomas Lang's Sig stick. Thats bigger than a 2B! But I find it comfortable, and they don't break as often.

Try not to pay attention to anything none drummers say. Its probably wrong. And alot of it will be conflicting. And they'll have no experience on if it works or not.

Congratulations though. You sound like you thoroughly enjoy it. But be warned, it can be a very expensive hobby. I'm E2,500 into my kit, and still want more. And its only an Export.

I have found both the long posters advice useful; I doubt if any two people can fully agree on anything. What i have chosen to imbibe is to play with a metronome, practice regularly and have a loose practice routine that i will try to expand and improve upon. I also have no interest in playing songs by the book but getting the pulse correct and counting as best i can. I also use earplugs with headphones as i'd say you could mess up your hearing in no time. It seems safer to me (rock and roll, I know)

My favourite music is soul, funk and blues (at the time of writing) soul seeming to be the most straightforward to play.

I try to improve my weak side, i have a few things i do but i'll try to keep varying them and using accents more frequently.

To anyone in a similar position to me, i'd reccomend getting learn and master drums, It' s a really comprehensive course and i think it's very good for a beginner. get online. The next part i am doing covers shuffles...

Tommy Igoe's Dvds are good too (the one's i've seen). And joe morello is a legend.

LD50, I'll have a look into what you said on here, as well as dadumtish. If i can combine both reccomendations I will be flying it. I am in thailand now hung over after days of benders so my head isn't really fully in my drum practce, but i will take a break from the benders and start again. I think the break might just have done me some good.:cool:

Oh jesus i almost forgot should i learn traditional grip while i'm away? seeing as i have nothing to do but play sticks on a bed or pad i might as well try to get a grip on that. anyone think this is crucial, or does it matter? French grip.... etc.

Yes, i love the drums they are brilliant craic. By asking people lots of information you may get some misinformed opinions but eventually you can glean what is crucial (e.g. a metronome, regular structured practice) and what is debatable (mastery of shuffles, the free stroke etc.) Since i posted this I have a lifetime's worth of materials to explore by people in the know- exactly what i sought out. And hopefully others can benifit too.

I accept it'll be a costly hobby but that's a part of it! I think there are worse ways to spend your money.

Again thanks for the advice, keep it coming

JAK

i57dwun4yb1pt8

trust me , anyone who recommends thomas langs dvd to a beginner
and thinks a shuffle is not crucial should not be giving advice on learning to drum

langs book is about advanced gymnastics , and tricks
and a shuffle is a natural progression of the basic eight note and eight triplets grooves
that most drummers begin with .

jo jo mayers dvd is THE reference for hand technique
all drummers must learn the free stroke FIRST as this is the proper method to hit a drum
this is NOT debateable - its mandatory

the secret of drumming is this :
a loose grip, where you throw the stick at the drum, and the drum rebounds the stick back to your hand

all you are doing is guiding this process, of basically playing tennis with the stick against the drum .
this creates the best speed, energy efficiency , economy of motion , and open tone , of high quality.

here is a basic example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjE2-wOdgg

once you realise this and learn it , drums become alot easier , as you are allowing the stick and drum to do most of the work , while you just guide it in a musically coherent manner.

many drummers do not bother to get this right , so they are forever moving too much, hitting too hard, gripping to tight , and too tense. and have a choked brittle tone.

i spent a year alone on getting this right , in tandem with the moeller method.

regarding grip

i am a trad grip player , but learned matched later for rock styles .

you do not need to play trad grip
trad grip mainly works for jazz and light blues , and brushes.

the reason being is you have the stick weight on top of the hand
and the hand under neath keeps the stick floating above the drum

where as in matched the stick weight is under the hand , and gravity acts on the stick and hand above thus making it harder to play gentley

the best grip is the GRUBER grip, which is the matched grip , with the thumb and SECOND finger , the first finger sits down the outside of the stick as a guide only. this grip allows the forearm to be at its most relaxed.

you move to thumb and FIRST finger for things like tight press rolls , and loud double stroke rolls.

most drummers use this grip - but the second finger grip is the best method.
check out dave weckls you tubes on this .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oisX1nhhmeM

freddy gruber is a drum teacher to all the great drummers - he retrianed drummers like dave weckl and neal perat to play with better grip and stroke.

do your self a favour - buy joj jos dvd , and the book STICK CONTROL BY GEORGE STONE and work on these on pad with some 2b sticks

ive been a pro and semi pro drummer for 30 years .
i play all styles , and concentrate mainly on studio work.


my equipment =

1968 original ludwig superclassic

1999 yamaha maple custom classic

roland td-20 ( triggering superiour drummer 2 samples )

jackthelad321

wel thanks for the advice, i've learned more here than in two supposed lessons from some idiot, who couldn't teach. i asked him about ghost notes and he looked at me confused and defeated, and played the drums himself for the entire two lessons. I didn't hold the sticks, or didn't play the dums ONCE!

So, my theory now is to get good advice and do it myself. I have a wealth of things to dive into.

Unfortunately (with regards drumming!) i am travelling in Thailand for 6 months so i guess i have to put things on the back foot,:( although i do have stick control and sometimes go over those patterns for my hands and then feet. it's most i can do ATM

JACK