Patriot Act Extended

SLUSK

Obama promised to get rid of the Patriot Act. Now instead he is signing an extension of the Patriot Act by one year.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmao3Tg9nvBQeAOMAVzmeZkrmAoAD9E4QD501

So Obama is yet another lying politician. Did people honestly believe he was any different from the neocon Bush? Guess the ones who voted for him must feel like suckers now.

This proves my point, voting is utterly useless.

Overheal

Three sections of the Patriot Act that stay in force will:

_Authorize court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones.

_Allow court-approved seizure of records and property in anti-terrorism operations.

_Permit surveillance against a so-called lone wolf, a non-U.S. citizen engaged in terrorism who may not be part of a recognized terrorist group.

Obama's signature comes after the House voted 315 to 97 Thursday to extend the measure.

The Senate also approved the measure, with privacy protections cast aside when Senate Democrats lacked the necessary 60-vote supermajority to pass them. Thrown away were restrictions and greater scrutiny on the government's authority to spy on Americans and seize their records.

Yikes.

SLUSK

Continued wars is Iraq and Afghanistan, more bailouts to the rich elites and extension of the Patriot Act. That is change we can believe in. What was the difference between Obama and Bush?

I'm sure supporters of the Welfare-Warfare state will find good "arguments" to support the decision to extend the Patriot Act.

Exile 1798

SLUSK wrote: »

Obama promised to get rid of the Patriot Act. Now instead he is signing an extension of the Patriot Act by one year.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmao3Tg9nvBQeAOMAVzmeZkrmAoAD9E4QD501

So Obama is yet another lying politician. Did people honestly believe he was any different from the neocon Bush? Guess the ones who voted for him must feel like suckers now.

This proves my point, voting is utterly useless.

When did Obama promise to get rid of the Patriot Act?

And offcourse, every politician has to lie to be elected. Do you really think you know something everyone else dosent?

We know Obama is a liar, for one he lies about his atheism. There are different types of lies, simply saying a person is a liar isn't sufficient to condemn them. What motivates the lie? Is it self interest, malice or expediency? Surely a white lie isn't equivilent to a Gulf of Tonkin type lie?

SLUSK

Obama said in 2003 that he wanted to repeal the Patriot Act
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/did-obama-break-his-campa_b_288112.html

Hagar

Abraham Lincoln got it wrong, you can fool all of the people all of the time.

SlimJ

sorry

Nick_oliveri

69 wrote: »

Abraham Lincoln got it wrong, you can fool all of the people all of the time.

Yes, yes we can!

Exile 1798

Slusk,

So it wasn’t his position in the Presidential campaign. It was a position he held before he was even a US Senator. (In the article you provided there is no actual Obama quote, but lets accept that what the author states about Obama's pledge is correct.)

Since then it seems he stated numerous times, as a Senator and then Presidential candidate, that his plan was to modify the act, drop certain aspects of it and continue others. Which is exactly what's since been done.

This context make your original statement seem like it omitted a few significant facts.

Obama promised to get rid of the Patriot Act. Now instead he is signing an extension of the Patriot Act by one year.

Overheal

Its still not something I would have approved of in any way, but Exile is correct afaik: He did not campaign on any promise to repeal the USA Patriot Act.

Amerika

"It ain't no sin if you crack a few laws now and then, just so long as you don't break any." - Mae West

streaky

Exile 1798 wrote: »

We know Obama is a liar, for one he lies about his atheism.

What the ****?! Have you been reading Tea-Partys-R-Us.com again? Because he doesn't shove a Bible down the folks' throats he's an atheist? Bullsh1t.

Overheal

Secret Atheist, Secret Muslim, w/e.

Exile 1798

streaky wrote: »

What the ****?! Have you been reading Tea-Partys-R-Us.com again? Because he doesn't shove a Bible down the folks' throats he's an atheist? Bullsh1t.

First off all, I suggest you calm down and not be so presumptuous.

It's quite a simple matter. Obama authored two autobiographies, one before he entered politics in which he said he was not a believer. The other was published in 2006 and was written with the Presidential candidacy in mind, in it he claims to be a man of faith.

There is no conspiracy here. All evidence suggests that Barack Obama is an atheist who like many others pretents other wise for political reasons.

Getting back to the original point, that all have politicians lie to some extent. In this case Obama's lie is not his fault, but the fault of the silly nature of the American electorate.

For this reason, childishly calling all politicians liars as SLUSK did is not sufficient to condemn them. The question is what kind of lair are they? What do they lie about? I don't put someone who lies about their Atheism or a blow job in that same category as someone who lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction or torture.

If you haven't yet guessed, I'm very happy that the President of the United States is an Atheist, the best ones always are.

Ciaran500

Exile 1798 wrote: »

First off all, I suggest you calm down and not be so presumptuous.

It's quite a simple matter. Obama authored two autobiographies, one before he entered politics in which he said he was not a believer. The other was published in 2006 and was written with the Presidential candidacy in mind, in it he claims to be a man of faith.

You can't just say something like that and expect us to believe, post some damn sources.

MarchDub

Exile 1798 wrote: »

First off all, I suggest you calm down and not be so presumptuous.

It's quite a simple matter. Obama authored two autobiographies, one before he entered politics in which he said he was not a believer. The other was published in 2006 and was written with the Presidential candidacy in mind, in it he claims to be a man of faith.

There is no conspiracy here. All evidence suggests that Barack Obama is an atheist who like many others pretents other wise for political reasons.

What evidence are you bringing here? I have copies of both of his books and I don't know where you see this. In his first book "Dreams of my Father" he deals quite a bit with the Black churches, especially Rev Right and how he [Obama] was trying to mobilize them to help the Black community in social ways. He viewed Christianity as a force for good in Black neighbourhoods but one that sometimes needed directions to achieve its goals. He writes about the way Christianity can aid in the Black struggle. Anyone who knows the US Black community is familiar with the central and significant role the Christian churches play in that community. Obama saw this and wanted to expand that role to more social action - something that he saw as central to Christianity's core beliefs.

Obama writes that he personally had "too many quarrels with God to accept a salvation too easily won" - this does not suggest a non believer to me but someone who wanted to see more pro-active involvement from the churches.

Exile 1798

MarchDub wrote: »

What evidence are you bringing here? I have copies of both of his books and I don't know where you see this. In his first book "Dreams of my Father" he deals quite a bit with the Black churches, especially Rev Right and how he [Obama] was trying to mobilize them to help the Black community in social ways. He viewed Christianity as a force for good in Black neighbourhoods but one that sometimes needed directions to achieve its goals. He writes about the way Christianity can aid in the Black struggle. Anyone who knows the US Black community is familiar with the central and significant role the Christian churches play in that community. Obama saw this and wanted to expand that role to more social action - something that he saw as central to Christianity's core beliefs.

Obama writes that he personally had "too many quarrels with God to accept a salvation too easily won" - this does not suggest a non believer to me but someone who wanted to see more pro-active involvement from the churches.

Church's social work and a belief in god are two different matters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsYUjv_aEA

MarchDub

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Church's social work and a belief in god are two different matters.

Understood, but he nowhere in "Dreams of My Father" does he state that he does not believe in God. On the contrary - he wrestles with the role that God should play in life and the manifestation that God has.

How many atheists "argue" with God? He does not say the idea of God but with God.

MarchDub

Exile 1798 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsYUjv_aEA

Like most people who have lived in the US I do not take Christoper Hitchens seriously. He has always got an anti-religious agenda.

I don't want to say more than he has a lot of personal problems that have been apparent in many of his interviews.

streaky

Exile 1798 wrote: »

It's quite a simple matter. Obama authored two autobiographies

Go 'way! BREAKING NEWS!

Exile 1798 wrote: »

one before he entered politics in which he said he was not a believer. The other was published in 2006 and was written with the Presidential candidacy in mind, in it he claims to be a man of faith.

Gotta love your assumption that you're the only creature on earth who has read Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope, and that, therefore, you can lie about the content of both.

For those who haven't got around to reading them yet: He wrote about how, in his teens to his early 20s, he struggled with his faith, how he was lost somewhere between agnosticism and belief. ie He was normal!

Then he began to work with the churches in Chicago - you know, Rev Wright and all that - and began to understand the depth of the role they played in their communities' lives. Consequently, his faith was strengthened.

Thankfully, he keeps his religion largely to himself - as any one with a modicum of intelligence should. For Exile 1798 this means he's an atheist. :rolleyes:

Enough said.

Exile 1798

Okay, I'll admit I was wrong to say that Obama being an atheist is a fact.

It is in fact my educated opinion. Due to his comments on his mother's atheism, his intelligence, and the fact that professing a belief in God is considered a requirement in modern American politics.

Since his inauguration he has mentioned non-believers and stated that America has freedom of Religion and freedom from it. He has also met with Atheists groups in the White House. All this is quite a departure from the last 30 years of American politics.