How RPGs lost their way

Retr0gamer

I don't entirely agree but it's a good read. It's dealing mainly with JRPGs though:

http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/HowRPGSLostTheirWay

landsleaving

Enjoyable article, I'd also be inclined to disagree on a few points but for the most part he's pretty much dead on about NPC's, sidequests and the world map.

super_furry

JRPGs have definately lost their way, and they haven't grown with their audience. When I was a teenager, it was great playing a teenager in game off on some jolly quest with his friends to save the world. I was a kid, playing a kids game. The problem is that now I'm an adult but Japanese developers are still pumping out the exact same games with the exact same stories, albeit with slightly better graphics, and for the most part these no longer interest me.

That's to say nothing of the dogmatic refusal in many quarters to change any aspect of the formulaic traditional JRPG design, while at the same time Western RPGS are taking more and more chances, and branching out into new and more interesting paths.

Retr0gamer

Well I'd be of a different opinion. The only place I really see stagnation of the JRPG genre is with Square Enix titles. In a lot of ways JRPGs are going back to their roots. We see a lot of excellent RPGs like Etrian Odyssey that provide an old school experience that is still fresh. Then at the other end of the spectrum you have the Shin Megami Tensei series pushing forward what a JRPG is.

Basically I see JRPGs focusing more on battle systems while wrpgs still use D&D systems that aren't all that good but give the user more choice and dialogue options.

Square Enix though really need to dig themselves out of their rut.

super_furry

I dunno, I mean I look at the likes of Blue Dragon, the Tales series, The Last Remnant, Star Ocean, and there's just nothing new there. They are literally the same games that were being made on the Playstation with fancier graphics. Even Eternal Odyssey, which I think is the only really good JRPG on the current gen bring nothing new to the table, it just tells it's rather simple and predictable story well and has a decent battle system.

I haven't played Etrian Odyssey and while Person 3/4 are excellant games, they're the exception to the rule and are so niche that I fear for the series future - especially on the 360/PS3.

Retr0gamer

There's no need to fear for the future of the SMT games. They aren't niche in japan, it's the third biggest RPG franchise there and they sold loads of copies here and in america. They have always been low budget gaems but atlus are great at getting the most out of a tiny budget.

I think we won't be seeing many more big JRPG releases on the 360/PS3. The platform that the genre has migrated to are the handhelds.

As for western RPGs they also seem to be stuck in their ways. Westerb developers, particularly Bioware, need to create some interesting worlds instead of barely veiled Star Wars or LotR/D&D universes. Their attempts to add sex to the formula have also lacked maturity or decent execution. Give us an original universe that hands sexual themes with maturity like Planetscape Torment or the original Fallouts.

Xluna

I do see a big decline in JRPGs.(Suikoden series is an honourable exception.) Square Enix are awful right now. They need to revert to turn based gameplay for their FF series. But for me it goes farther than S.E.
The protagonists and main characters of JRPGS just don't interest me. They have no character. They all look like clones,random androgenous looking guy 18-23. The contexts of the stories are very unimaginative compared to Chrono trigger,Square Enix and Illusion of Gaia which touched on religion,parralel universes,time travel, reincanation,ancient astronaught theories ect.
The dialogue was,at times, moving in these games. Sure, the graphics may have been a hundred times more primitive but the emotional impact compared modern games with all their CGI and random J-pop license song was far stronger.

Xluna

super_furry wrote: »

I haven't played Etrian Odyssey and while Person 3/4 are excellant games, they're the exception to the rule and are so niche that I fear for the series future - especially on the 360/PS3.

I'm guessing you mean Persona and Lost Odyssey.:) I would also add Eternal Sonata to that list. I was very good,but not great. At least they tried something original with the whole Chopin thing.

noodler

I enjoyed the article - it was a little unfotunate they used FFX as an example as it was brilliant. I also thought that game had some scope for exploring, I mean in FF7 you generally couldn't really go past a town if there was a story quest to be completed there but you could go backwards - same as in FFX just a little more roundabout.

However, the Economics point he made was very good I have to say. I have always thought that was one of the reasons I liked RPGs or JRPGs, I just loved doing sidequests etc. The second time I had FF7 I had a guide and I just loved being able to steal a weapon from a creature just outside Midgar that you wouldn't be able to buy for a few more towns.

EDIT: The collecting of multiple items from the same enemy several times is very annoying. Loads of games are guilty of it but obviously Persona 3 is the most recent cuplrit to me.


EDIT 2: I know what he means about generic characters buit I thought (again) it was harsh to pick out FFX for the swapping in andout of battle aspect. Not only did I think that was great but FFX was an RPG which, for me, had the most specialised charcters in a FF game. (Tidus for agile creatures, Wakka for flying ones, Kamarhi for brute strength, Auron for piercing, LuLu for magic and Yuna for Summons).

Retr0gamer

I agree. I didn't care that it wasn't realistic that only 3 characters fought at a time, the battle system was sublime and that's all that mattered. Anyway how realistic can a turn based battle system be?

elekid

Some of the points (like the FFX battle system one) are a bit silly but I totally agree about babbling npcs and having to constantly search for hundreds of pointless items, it can turn an otherwise fun game into a stressful chore.

de5p0i1er

A good read, it makes you think about the genre.