emergancy meeting

tedshredsonfire

As many as possible should attend but lets have some ideas rather than just there to blame people.
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=8011

blackiebest

Thanks for that, will attend but it all sounds a bit grim! For sure it will be intresting and I wonder will any of our banks will be represented?:rolleyes:

Stevedore

Is this the panic button?

tedshredsonfire

Panic should have started about a year and a half ago but its past that now. maybe this will just be a talking shop or to be seen to be doing something etc but its worth going to imho. Hopefully it won't degenerate into a blame game we have plenty of that and need to move onwards and upwards etc.

dingding

The chamber and old sligo business finally are starting to get their own way.

All the new businesses that they objected to are starting to leave.


Horse Door Bolted comes to mind

Essexboy

The word is Emergency

tedshredsonfire

dingding wrote: »

The chamber and old sligo business finally are starting to get their own way.

All the new businesses that they objected to are starting to leave.


Horse Door Bolted comes to mind

examples please?

blackiebest

Well, slamming the supper to make it in for the meeting, it should be interesting, for me I am curious to guage the anger amongst the old school CoC members, the younger (non)members and to listen to what our Mayor has to say. I Think its funny considering the Champion is carrying the 'no public loo' story, imagine 40 years ago there were three places to drop the kids at the pool and now, nada!. Consider the money spend making a balls of first closing and then re-opening the street, if it was not so serious it would be funny!

Not sure if its the first meeting of its kind in the country but hopefully it will remain cordial and that some sort of general consensus can be reached.

Personally I would advocate Sligo Businesses paying each other, on time, ahead of the banks! IMO the banks should burn if not all the inept backscratchers are turffed out, without redundancy etc. Then a mass default on rates to the CoCo and let them feel the pain.

We would never have got to this stage if we had responsible people in charge of our financial and government systems. I would not let them run a bath, nevermind a county/country!

guinnessdrinker

Was anyone at the meeting?

blackiebest

Yes, I went. I have no time now but will try to give a good account tomorrow.

In short, it was very positive:eek:

redarmyblues

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

examples please?

The CoC have not in recent years anyway actually prevented anybody from opening a business in Sligo, but I believe they have had influence over the planning process and also directly intervened in the case of Sligo retail park.
Aldi bought a site in Cornageegha a few years ago and were refused PP to open on the site as supermarkets are not permitted in out of town locations.
One could also argue that they were not permitted in town centre sites as there were none available that I know of in the TC that could have accomodated such a development. They have also been hostile to Markets, the farmers market were refused PP to hold even on a one off basis a market in the TC. They were sent to wither in the IT carpark, where they have instead prospered and would not now move into the TC beacuse of carparking and also because of a degree of resentment toward the CoC.

Now is anybody starting to see some contradictions begin to emerge here beacuse of the reactive nature of CoC policy. Now it is obvoius that there is divide on these boards between those who I suspect are members of the Coc or the connections of and everyone else. The CoCs approach is seen as high handed, arrogant and selfish not just on here but on the streets Sligo. There seems to be an old fashioned air of entitlement about the body that does serve it well in an era of consumer choice.

The CoC and I will never forgive them for this pushed for and were rewarded with the mid block route, a road which does not function as a street or a bypass bringing unwilling participants into the traffic jam that is Sligo TC. The MBR is just over 4 years old and was promised as a panacea for our traffic but lo and behold we now need an Eastern route through (and not around) the urban area of Sligo. If you insist on driiving roads through your urban fabric you are left with a town that is unattractive to residents never mind tourists. In my mind the area from the riverside to Hazelwood and onto the state woodland around the lake ought to be developed as Lough Gill Park and if you must have roads put them under not over the gentle Garavogue.

dingding

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

examples please?

The held Argos up for years, stopped Tesco moving to cararowe

And stopped a lot of shops going to the retail park.

And that is just for starters.

jimmmy

dingding wrote: »

The held Argos up for years,

Who held Argos up for years ? Certainly not the Co. Council./CoC. There are numerous sites in Sligo Argos could move to...the mistake Argus clearly made was moving to an out of town site, away from the inner relief road , transport hubs ( rail, bus station, taxi rank ) and town centre. In other town like Castlebar and Athlone and Enniskillen they are in easier to find locations, closer to the town centres there. That is why those other Argos shops are busier than Sligo....plus a lot of people like to feel, examine ,touch and handle the goods before deciding to buy.

dingding wrote: »

stopped Tesco moving to cararowe

TYesco have planning permission got for a major new supermarket + multi storey car park in Sligo. A new large supermarket opened in Ballisodare in recent years. There is not room for another big supermarket, which would cost millions to build, in the middle of the country half way between these 2 places. Too much property was built as it was over the last decade.

dingding wrote: »

And stopped a lot of shops going to the retail park.

The real retail area in Sligo is Sligo. ( not Carraroe). There was never any planning permission, and never will be, for anything other than the type of shops in Carraroe retail park already.....approx half of whom have closed down already / gone back to where they came from.
Its a pity retail in Sligo is so scattered....do you really expect visitors to Sligo to try to find and visit shops scattered in Carraroe, some in Duncans island, some in Cleveragh etc ? Sligo is not big enough for that ( as some shops which moved to poor locations have found to their cost ). Retail is about location, location, location. Of course the Borough Council should fulfill its obligations too by providing more easily accessible car parking spaces in Sligo. A critical mass of shops in Sligo would benefit everyone in the long run, and would be better for the environment too.

For Forks Sake

jimmmy wrote: »

That is why those other Argos shops are busier than Sligo....plus a lot of people like to feel, examine ,touch and handle the goods before deciding to buy.

You don't get to feel/touch/examine or handle anything in Argos before you buy it, no matter where the Argos is. Ridiculous argument.

The.Q

jimmmy wrote: »

There was never any planning permission, and never will be, for anything other than the type of shops in Carraroe retail park already.....approx half of whom have closed down already / gone back to where they came from.

WTF? "gone back to where they came from"? Seriously? What does that mean?

"I'm not shop-ist, some of my favourite shops are foreign. But, them damn furrin shops, coming in here taking over our retail parks, taking our wimmen and our jobs, send them back to where they came from, we don't want their sort here."

Is that what you mean?

TequilaMockingBird

tedshredsonfire

Agreed so here we go again. I think I have nailed my colours to the mast before but have never made any secret that I am a chamber member and if you read any of my posts I don't think I have being high handed or arrogant in any of them.

Draft development plan was agreed by all as the best way forward for the town, CoC simply objected that this was now being breached, before my time as a member but I agreed with it then and even more so now. CoC have no special powers when it come to planning but can make submissions and objections in the same way you can or any organised group can.
If the objection was to stop business locating in the retail park it means the business would have to locate in the town, now if I have a competing business on my doorstep is that not more of a threat than having it out of town? Surely this negates the protectionism arguement.

I think farmers markets are great in placesbut now put yourself in a local grocers shoes (which I am not) he has built up his business over the years, he has paid thousands in rates to the corpo each year which has been used for services in the town etc. Then a farmers market opens up beside him only on his busiest day of the week without the overhead of a premises and pay no rates and people wonder why he charges so much for his fruit and veg, result he goes out of business. fast forward and you can now buy veg from Tesco or only on a saturday morning.

On Tesco et all please imagine if Tesco and Dunnes are out of town whats left in town?
Longford CoC are objecting to a similar proposal at present for the same reasons.

jimmmy

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

Agreed so here we go again. I think I have nailed my colours to the mast before but have never made any secret that I am a chamber member and if you read any of my posts I don't think I have being high handed or arrogant in any of them.

Draft development plan was agreed by all as the best way forward for the town, CoC simply objected that this was now being breached, before my time as a member but I agreed with it then and even more so now. CoC have no special powers when it come to planning but can make submissions and objections in the same way you can or any organised group can.
If the objection was to stop business locating in the retail park it means the business would have to locate in the town, now if I have a competing business on my doorstep is that not more of a threat than having it out of town? Surely this negates the protectionism arguement.

I think farmers markets are great in placesbut now put yourself in a local grocers shoes (which I am not) he has built up his business over the years, he has paid thousands in rates to the corpo each year which has been used for services in the town etc. Then a farmers market opens up beside him only on his busiest day of the week without the overhead of a premises and pay no rates and people wonder why he charges so much for his fruit and veg, result he goes out of business. fast forward and you can now buy veg from Tesco or only on a saturday morning.

On Tesco et all please imagine if Tesco and Dunnes are out of town whats left in town?

+1 and well said, I agree 100% . I am not a chamber of commerce member but know from experience in similar size towns abroad that if the likes of Tesco and Dunnes could relocate out of town , in the country at Carraroe, you could build a fence around Sligo and make it a wildlife sanctuary. Commercially, economically, tourism wise, the town would suffer greatly. As you correctly said, the draft development plan was agreed by all as the best way forward for the town. I am glad the CoC supports it, the same as the planning experts and Borough Council, and stands up for common sense.

darealtulip

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

Agreed so here we go again. I think I have nailed my colours to the mast before but have never made any secret that I am a chamber member and if you read any of my posts I don't think I have being high handed or arrogant in any of them.

Draft development plan was agreed by all as the best way forward for the town, CoC simply objected that this was now being breached, before my time as a member but I agreed with it then and even more so now. CoC have no special powers when it come to planning but can make submissions and objections in the same way you can or any organised group can.
If the objection was to stop business locating in the retail park it means the business would have to locate in the town, now if I have a competing business on my doorstep is that not more of a threat than having it out of town? Surely this negates the protectionism arguement.

I think farmers markets are great in placesbut now put yourself in a local grocers shoes (which I am not) he has built up his business over the years, he has paid thousands in rates to the corpo each year which has been used for services in the town etc. Then a farmers market opens up beside him only on his busiest day of the week without the overhead of a premises and pay no rates and people wonder why he charges so much for his fruit and veg, result he goes out of business. fast forward and you can now buy veg from Tesco or only on a saturday morning.

On Tesco et all please imagine if Tesco and Dunnes are out of town whats left in town?
Longford CoC are objecting to a similar proposal at present for the same reasons.

It's very sad to hear that the only thing Sligo has to offer is Tesco and Dunnes.

For that reason we affoid Sligo like the plague. Your attitude to save the local rip off made internet shopping big!

We make a trip to Enniskillen every week, not for the cheaper prices (it does help though) but for the choice. And thankfully Tesco deliver now so if we need something and don't , we don't have to go into town.

You miss out on a lot of bussines to Carrick and Enniskillen where people can park for their weekly shop.

If your goal is to keep sligo small, your are doing a great job.

Tried to shop in Sligo again today after managed to stay away for over 7 months. Sligo did not fail to dissapoint, we came home empty handed. Money will be spend over the net and Enniskillen again.

And Longford is an other example on how not to do it.

darealtulip

jimmmy wrote: »

+1 and well said, I agree 100% . I am not a chamber of commerce member but know from experience in similar size towns abroad that if the likes of Tesco and Dunnes could relocate out of town , in the country at Carraroe, you could build a fence around Sligo and make it a wildlife sanctuary. Commercially, economically, tourism wise, the town would suffer greatly. As you correctly said, the draft development plan was agreed by all as the best way forward for the town. I am glad the CoC supports it, the same as the planning experts and Borough Council, and stands up for common sense.

We had that discussion and I already mentioned lots of town who did it with great succes. Again Sligo isn't made for modern traffic and parking as no old town is. It will never work.

Culchie

Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Harrods, Dunnes, Wal-Mart, Sainsburys ....it doesn't matter.

I really do think people (generic not personal) are missing the point here.

It is not going to matter how may shops or brands you open up in Sligo or anywhere else for that matter .... they all require money in peoples pockets, so that they can spend it in the shops.

Sligo has to organically create wealth and income for it's citizens, and then in turn this money can be spent in the local economy .... not the other way round.

We need to make stuff and sell it .... not buy stuff from 'brands' ...simply keeping low paid retail jobs alive and little more else.

Sligo has to market and sell it's own identity. Sligo companies need to sell their stuff that they make or grow.

Attract people to the region through tourism and marketing. Sell/Export stuff made from the region ...thats how you create a local vibrant economy.
Then you spend it whereever you want.... But if haven't got it, you can't spend it.

I am looking forward to hearing feedback from the meeting, I really wanted to go, but just couldn't make it.

tedshredsonfire

Michael the feedback should be good and most points made were about how undersold Sligo is as a region. Tourism has always suffered to Donegal and Galway despite our abundance of scenery and attractions.

imho Sligo could be the capital of outdoor pursuits and its a niche we could be good at. We have great coasts for sailing surfing diving etc, great lakes and rivers for fishing, great mountains and cliffs for hillwalking/climbing and great woods for trekking. A lot of other counties have these facilities but few that have them within 20 minutes of the town.

The IDA focus is to be welcomed but Sligo has been focused on before for FDI with little results. On this score we need to push quality of life. I'm lucky enough to be able to walk my daughter to school in the morning then walk back to the house get the van and still be in work at 8.45. 10 minutes after work I can surfing imagine the poor soul who has left the house at 6.30am to get to work on time.

Best laugh of the night unfortuantly went to Mayor Jimmy McGarry ( kudos for being there) who promised the public loo would be sorted by 2014. County Manager was prominently absent imho.

magnumlady

I'd be interested to know how the meeting went.

I'm kicking myself because I forgot all about it and could have gone.

blackiebest

Yes, I was there. It was interesting and thankfully very well chaired which avoided it resulting in a slagging match.

The young lad Phelim O'Neill who seems to be a driving force behind all this is to be commended. His energy and ability seems limitless, fair play to him. I suggest you have look here http://www.fairdealer.org/home which is a 'movement' he has created and recruited the CoC, Trade Unions etc on board with the objective of helping save Sligo. There is a forum there and I honestly think it would be good for the Sligo boardsies to log on and leave a comment. The more traffic it will receive then the more people will post, the more good ideas will emerge.

The meeting was conducted in a room with what I estimate would have had appx 80 to 100 seats, all occupied when I arrived at 7:55pm. By 8:10pm there must have been at least another 50 people standing about so it was, imo, very well attended.

Public figures; Jimmy Devins TD, Sen Marc McSharry, Mayor Jimmy McGarry, Declan Bree, Brian Scanlon, and maybe a few others.

At the top table; Trade union leader (local and I do not rem his name) Phelim O'Neill (the organiser), the mayor, Fergal Burke (Pres of the CoC), a very impressive chairman again no memory of name. They each spoke, and PO'Neill stressed the need for us Sligonians to be positive,

A number of speakers attempted to hilight all that was wrong about Sligo, Lissadell, no loo, planning office, etc etc but the chairman stressed that we all had greivences and could be there forever venting them, They were looking for thoughts/ideas that would/could make Sligo less likely to go down the toilet.

The following are what I remember been offered as ways to make Sligo better.


Wi-fi the entire urban center of Sligo and make it freely available.

Establish a marketing drive for promoting Sligo as a tourist destination independantly of the tourist board which apparently is dominated by Donegal.

Employees should be trained in providing excellent customer service.

Move the Farmers Market into the town center (Stephen St Car Park).

Provide free parking in town for at least one hour.

Get a multi story town center car park built with or without treasury.

Capitalise on the fact that Sligo should be/will be the capital of watersports/outdoor pursuits in Ireland.

Make empty/closed down shops look nicer, murals in windows etc.

The East bridge project "MUST" go ahead. (Hilighted by a number of people without dissent by anyone.

I am sure I have missed some stuff but my head is a bit 'sore' from a good weekend. Sorry if account is a bit disjointed:o

fozzle

Folks we've been down this road before with this "debate" let's not go there again. The meeting announced in the original post has happened so I'm locking the thread. If someone can convince me that they want to discuss the meeting I may reopen it, but I don't think we need the same old circular argument shoving it off topic - fozzle