C class shows

pcbefr

Just so everyone knows who I am, this is Pol Murray, Co head coach & owner of progressive Combat Club Belfast.
I am putting this thread up to see what the general thought is in regards C class shows and how they are run. I am mainly referring to fighter safety and lack of safety equipment on some shows. A year or two back most promoters and coaches got together to sit down and try to agree to a set of rules that all shows would adhere to. For C class it was agreed that all shows would insist on heavier gloves, shin guards and no knees to the head.

The reasons behind these rules as I understood it was because these fighters are AMATEUR fighters, ie of little or limited skill and experience.
What is the point of wearing gloves in our sport? Obviously it is to give a bit of protection to the knuckles but also to offer a bit all be it minimal protection to the opponents face and body. Now the hand happens to be one of the most delicate parts of the body as all experienced fighters will tell you, it is easily broke but when you punch someone in the face it can still do significant damage. So if we insist on protective equipment for the hands then why not the shins or knees?? Both are thicker and stronger boned and both are controlled and powered by the most powerful muscles in the body, so it stands to reason therefore that damage to the face or body will be much higher than that done by the hands. When you add into the equation two amateur fighters that have not yet fully grasped the defensive knowledge or movement required to fully protect themselves then we are looking at a potentially serious accident waiting to happen!!

Why is it so hard for promoters to insist on the wearing of protective equipment? In amateur boxing, fighters HAVE to wear protective head gear and thicker gloves, to offer the best protection to the fighters. Now it is impossible for MMA to adopt head gear but to try and counter this, slightly thicker gloves and shinguards should be made mandatory. It happens at every ramble Inn show and every show is a sell out and great success!!

Amateur shows are an easy way to make money, you don't have to pay fighters, the venue doesn't have to be very large and with the explosion of MMA in recent years there seems to be a never ending stream of new fighters to put on them. As fighters progress in MMA they move from C to B and up to A class and as they progress they take on more risk of injury, B class have head strikes on the ground, A class have elbows both standing and on the ground and payment for the fights increase. This payment for pro and non payment for amateur should be in place to motivate fighters to try and move up through the classes and as amateur don't get paid they should not be exposed to great risks.

Even though MMA has greatly increased in popularity and the crowds becoming more educated as to whats going on during the fights, there are still a large number of people and groups that would like nothing more than to ban this "barbaric blood sport". We all know that it is far from a blood sport but all it will take is for someone to get serious injury for alot of problems to descend upon us. What will happen if the person hurt is a 1st time fighter? Or worse still a 1st time fighter of 16yrs?

In my opinion we are playing with fire and sooner or later we will get burned.

As for these waivers fighters sign, they are not worth the paper they are printed on and if someone does get a serious injury (God forbid) especially a 16/17yr old, I can promise you the promoter of the show is going to be very worried about a court appearance. At least if it does happen and you can prove that you took all steps to try and make it as safe as possible then you stand more of a chance.Also with regards to under age fighters, should there not be a system of getting parents permission?

As I see it the reasons FOR the wearing of protective equipment far out weigh the reasons NOT to
1. Protection of fighters.
2. If injuries do happen, if you can show insurance companies you done everything possible to prevent it happening, there is agreater chance of them paying out or giving you cover.
3. With the amount of new clubs popping up, promoters can no longer know if a 1st/2nd time fighter is going to be equally matched as they only have the coaches word to go on, if a mismatch does happen then the weaker fighter has less chance of getting badly hurt.
4. There is less chance of a 1st time fighter receiving punishment sufficient enough to put him off fighting again.
5. It shows anti MMA bands there is a structure in place and that steps are in place to ensure fighter safety.
6. May alleviate parents worries of little jonnie fighting his 1st show.
7. Will help 1st time fighters fears of getting badly hurt.

Obviously there can be more added to this list but I am trying to make a point, not bore people to death. I know this issue is a thorn in the side for some people but at the end of the day it is all our duty to ensure OUR sport is run as professionally as possible from D class right up
I accept there are fighters out there that will disagree with what I say and just want to get in and fight and stuff the shin guards etc, well if that's how they feel, then move up to B class and if your not ready for B class then you are not ready to fight without shin guards.
I know people are not going to agree with all that is said and that's fine, please put up your point but back it up with educated reasons not "just cause i don't like it, simple as that" This is a serious subject and one that needs to be addressed asap.

John Ferguson

Hi Pol (hope the op went well)

on the C class subject, do you think fighters should weigh-in on the day of a fight or the day before? At Cage Contender we always do all the day before, but I was chattin to a coach last week and he though it was safer on the day?

John

Sid_Justice

I'm not disagreeing with you Pól nor am I playing devil's advocate just for the lulz but:

There isn't actually much firm evidence to suggest head gear makes MMA fights significantly safer. Obviously, intuitively, you'd expect head gear to reduce the impact of blows and reduce cuts, however many are of the opinion the head guard doesn't do much for reducing concussion. They certainly are a nuisance with regards to grappling.

I think Shinpads are standard for EFR amateur shows, and the high quality Rogue ones I don't think have any negative effects and will reduce impact and chances of cuts due to bone on bone. The other shinpads can be a bit awkward while grappling, I used Thai shinpads in the mma league and they were interfering with my knee on belly.

The important thing is improving fighter safety. And I firmly believe it's not the equipment but the match making that's making fights dangerous. I think promoters should be more selective of who they have fight a C class and up. Certianly seen guys with 6 months experience take C class fights. In my opinion, you should stay out of the cage until you have at least 2 years _MMA_ experience (not two years bjj with 2 weeks mma).

pcbefr

on the point of weigh ins, I think for amateur shows on the day as they are small shows and usually the weight allowance is nearly a whole kg. Also it teaches discipline about making weight and that can be a hard thing to learn. Skipping for 45mins before your fight to make weight is a hard way to learn that lesson but one you will only make once.

On the head gear I never said anything about evidence, i Merely stated Am boxing insist on them for safety reasons and as they are not suited for the grappling side of MMA I would never want them to be used, that said, certain one do help prevent facial cuts, though this is neither here nor there.

You are 100%correct about thai shin pads, they do interfere with grappling and when I was saying about shin guards, rouge was the brand I was thinking of, I should have stated that.

I have to totally disagree about what you said about the length of time to train before fighting. I believe that as soon as the person feels confident and as long as he has some level of skill then to go for it. C class is about experience, you cannot get this experience training in the gym even with hard spars. You need to learn to deal with fighting AND getting hit in the face in front of a crowd.
Certainly I would push fighters towards D class fisrt but there are some that are able to deal with the pressure better than others and I say to them to go for it, it is not going to effect your record and as I tell my fighters although everyone wants to win its not a problem if you lose as long as you learn from it. C class is where you learn your trade and iron out all your faults. I would def encourage my fighters to stay at C class for a long time before moving to B but again some people are suited to B and A rather than C but the majority of fighters I advise to stay at C

When I started training with Davy Patterson 10yrs ago there were not that many people at the sport so it was easy to match up local fighters evenly (though sometimes it didnt happen as myself and Greg Loughran found out... the hard way lol). The problem we have now is that with the explosion of MMA there are so many clubs popping up that the main promoters don't know them personally and then have to just go on their word that such and such fighter is a 1st timer or has no grappling experience or isn't that hot with their stand up and I can see how you stating 2yrs minimum would help put an end to that but if coaches were honest with the promoters then that would also help end it.

I always insist on telling the promoter the level of stand up and grappling my fighters are at and how long they have been training at MMA and any other combat sports if that applies.

Anakin.S

Are 'D Class' fights not just sparing in front of a crowd?

As a spectator, they can be very monotonous as the person with the better Judo skills usually takes the decision.

Jason McCabe

Pol at that meeting it was actually agreed that C class would

wear big gloves

shin pads were optional

knees to head were allowed (there was a vote on this and concensus was that they were allowed. It was only at the next EFR when a guy got a knee to head that mid show Davy said to change the rule for his show.)




I am of the opinion that safety is for sure of paramount. Maybe we all need to talk again as new shows seem to allow whatever rules and even the shows that were there have gone on slightly different paths.

We would be willing to agree to whatever rules people see fit as last thing we want is anyone to get hurt. Especially someone under 18.

cowzerp

pcbefr wrote: »

Just so everyone knows who I am, this is Pol Murray, Co head coach & owner of progressive Combat Club Belfast.
I am putting this thread up to see what the general thought is in regards C class shows and how they are run. I am mainly referring to fighter safety and lack of safety equipment on some shows. A year or two back most promoters and coaches got together to sit down and try to agree to a set of rules that all shows would adhere to. For C class it was agreed that all shows would insist on heavier gloves, shin guards and no knees to the head..

The thing is C class does have knee's to the head and no shin guards etc, the rules used on the ramble event are actually the new D class rules, E class is the rules used on the MMA league shows, C class is the last stop before going pro and if fighters are not ready then they should stick to E and D class till there confident enough to step up to C and up.

pcbefr wrote: »

As for these waivers fighters sign, they are not worth the paper they are printed on and if someone does get a serious injury (God forbid) especially a 16/17yr old, I can promise you the promoter of the show is going to be very worried about a court appearance.

Your right about the waivers been worthless, but not in the way you think-the moment an adult accepts to get in the ring they have legally accepted the risks associated with fighting and are responsible for there own safety and would have no case in court so the waiver is just to make it more clear that theyknew the risks, i try to match fights as fair as possible and in that case there will not be any bad beat downs and injuries will be at a minimum..

mmaireland.com

The whole "E Class" thing just "appeared" one day. One or two shows just sort of ran with it. 95% of the shows on this island use;

D - No headshots standing or grounded (MMA League Rules)
C - No headshots grounded
B - Headshots grounded, no elbows to head at any range
A - UFC Rules (except no heel hooks)

Some people go down the Strikeforce root and allow elbows to the head when standing but not grounded but continue to class it as "A".

The truth is; I'd love to see unified rules. Following the last meeting, I drew this up (click here) and it represented what was agreed at the time.

Note the glove weights.

Martin Walker

**THIS IS THE RESPONSE I PUT ON FIGHTTALK TO THE SUBJECT**

The lads in our club that do MMA dont want to use shin pads so im happy with them not using them. Im also happy with knee strikes to the head standing.
You ask for "educated reasons" why. Well i dont have any. In reality there are no "educated reasons" why anyone in there right mind would climb into a ring or cage to fight anyway.
I totally understand where you are coming from and get everything you have said. But i dont feel the same.
I also think that many of the fighters that want to use shin pad want to because they dont like shin to shin contact. Blocks ect.... Not because they are worried about getting kicked in the face.
________________________________________________________________

For the record i dont think this is a big problem at the minute. I belive that MMA in this country has bigger problems that need to be addressed.

Marty(jnr)

mmaireland.com

Martin Walker wrote: »

...I belive that MMA in this country has bigger problems that need to be addressed...

Care to elaborate?

Martin Walker

mmaireland.com wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

I will but not on this thread.:)

mmaireland.com

Fair enough. I'm with Pol on this one though (for the most part). There are shows popping up left right and centre. Stable gyms are now in a position to pick and choose the shows they wish to support. We've been around the block and have the luxury of hindsight and experience. This means we can "protect ourselves and our fighters" through choice.

What about those guys that don't know any better? Those that are getting started in this sport (and let's face it - the more new fighters and gyms the better) will attend a show assuming certain safety standards.

For my money; nothing is more important to Irish MMA at the moment than a unified rule set. It's about safety. Sure, we won't be affected in the short term by cowboy shows, promotions and gyms. In the long term however, any major repercussions, as a result of lack of direction, will impact the sport and this will in turn impact us all.

I'm still not convinced we need a "governing body". But, a unified rule set is a must. Those that adhere to the unified ruleset can simply promote themselves as such. Those that don't (new guys) and those that continue to do their own thing (big fish small pond syndrome) are to be avoided.

cowzerp

mmaireland.com wrote: »

The whole "E Class" thing just "appeared" one day. One or two shows just sort of ran with it. 95% of the shows on this island use;

D - No headshots standing or grounded (MMA League Rules)
C - No headshots grounded
B - Headshots grounded, no elbows to head at any range
A - UFC Rules (except no heel hooks)

Everything just appears 1 day shane and most shows work off knee's to the head standing-the only 1 that does not is efr as far as i know, when there was a change in the rules that in 1 you could knee the head and the other you could not then E class was born as the new split was still above the mma league rules wise, plus the bigger gloves been used makes sense if you cant knee the head as its a tamer version of C class or above

In my opinion D and E class are good for stepping up, especially for lads who want in early, but not great for shows that spectators are going to and should be done in the mma league or in clubs without spectators, this is something that im going to look at in future..

pcbefr

cowzerp wrote: »

The thing is C class does have knee's to the head and no shin guards etc, the rules used on the ramble event are actually the new D class rules, E class is the rules used on the MMA league shows, C class is the last stop before going pro and if fighters are not ready then they should stick to E and D class till there confident enough to step up to C and up.

I have never even heard of E class in the North, and D class up here is no strikes to the head anywhere. C class for the north is the 1st real step into fighting in front of a crowd and for that reason I still stand by what I said. There is no payment involved and I think taking shins and knees to the head is too much of a risk for beginners that are entertaining a crowd, getting the promoter easy money and not getting any reward for it.


Your right about the waivers been worthless, but not in the way you think-the moment an adult accepts to get in the ring they have legally accepted the risks associated with fighting and are responsible for there own safety and would have no case in court so the waiver is just to make it more clear that theyknew the risks, i try to match fights as fair as possible and in that case there will not be any bad beat downs and injuries will be at a minimum..

I would not want to be relying on what you said if someone (God forbid and I know this is an extreme example but one that could happen) was to be brain damaged from a serious knee to the head or paralysed from a vicious slam, we know spiking is not allowed but that does not mean in the heat of a fight it wont happen, it has happened in sports before and it will happen again.
I think if you had someone who this happened too they would certainly push for court action and I think, though I am not a lawyer, you would have to prove you took every possible step to ensure fighter safety, if that fighter is a 1st time fighter or U18, there could be an argument that he was not properly informed or couldn't know what to expect and was not protected enough. Amateur boxing wears the protective gear partly because of insurance reasons.
Even if you were found not guilty the hastle and stress alone would be enough to put you off the sport, also morally I think you would be questioning yourself, did you do enough to ensure their safety etc and then there is the damage to the sport as a whole???
You can only match fairly if given honest info from the coaches. I think we were involved in a discussion a while back about this topic when I put up a post about one of my fighters getting stitched up. It is impossible for promoters to match up 1st time fighters fairly if coaches are lying about their fighters. Alot of new clubs popping up are wanting to get recognition (understandably) and as they are not known by the usual clubs they can, if they want, lie about experience. Its not right and its unfair but it does happen. So from this angle why not make 1st/2nd time and U18 fighters wear protective gear? What harm will it do to them or the sport??? I can see an argument for the more experienced C class fighters, the ones about to move to B, not wearing shin guards and allowing knees to the head, as they have proven their ability to be able to defend themselves.

Anyway I just brought this topic up as it is one that needs to be unified throughout the whole of Ireland and I do think all coaches and promoters need to meet and nail out a set of rules that ALL will adhere to, this needs to be done asap so we can start looking like a proper sport ie set rules and regulations

pcbefr

sorry still trying to work out quote button the middle part is my reply to your 1st quote Paul

cowzerp

pcbefr wrote: »

sorry still trying to work out quote button the middle part is my reply to your 1st quote Paul

All good, your idea on 1st and 2nd timers wearing shin pads and padded gloves is a good 1 and may be looked at in the future by me-as the show is this month i cant just change everything..

i think there should be unified rules and as part of that i feel the small stepping stones are the safest way of moving up ranks, too much of a jump is very off putting,

ps, when you qoute just delete the stuff ya dont want and leave the qoute bit at the start and finish and you'll be fine

Tim_Murphy

mmaireland.com wrote: »

The whole "E Class" thing just "appeared" one day. One or two shows just sort of ran with it. 95% of the shows on this island use;

D - No headshots standing or grounded (MMA League Rules)
C - No headshots grounded
B - Headshots grounded, no elbows to head at any range
A - UFC Rules (except no heel hooks)

Some people go down the Strikeforce root and allow elbows to the head when standing but not grounded but continue to class it as "A".

The truth is; I'd love to see unified rules. Following the last meeting, I drew this up (click here) and it represented what was agreed at the time.

Note the glove weights.

Exactly, D Class for any nothern shows AFAIK is league rules. As you say the new 'D class' just appeared one day, which is fine I suppose, but there didn't seem to have been a whole lot of thought put into it at the time. The subject of the new 'D class' has already been down to death though, so there probably isn't a lot to be gained by going back down that road again.

Unfortunately these type of threads pop up every few months but at the end of it nothing ever changes. Without any governing body people will always just do whatever they think is best themselves so there will be no unified rules. However having a governing body would lead to plenty of other problems, possibly creating more problems that it solves.

crosdad

I think we might be going overboard with this ''class'' issue. Soon we'll have a f class, a g class and x class. i've never heard of any other country having this amount of class' or using shin pads and head gear. do you think randy, chuck, penn etc came up the ranks this way? i believe that you shouldn't step into the cage unless you're a 100 percent ready. Enough of this fight cards with 10 fights of guys fighting with shin pads and no head shots. it should be as simple as this: mma league for few years( like myself) and grappling comps etc... then when ready have a semi pro bout, after 1 or 2 move on to pro.

Barry.Oglesby

I personally think I probably invented D class rules for Ireland, though Mark might have beaten me to it. It goes along with all my other inventions, the quarter sliced pan, the bottom opening bottle and the car that runs on cake. They've all taken off about as much as D class has.

I don't see the difficulty in a variety of rulesets to get people involved in competition at some level. In fact I would say that the more rulesets there are at the entry level to allow people cut their teeth properly the better. I think before people moan about D/E/Z class rulesets we should look at the standard of people fighting at C and being sent in to eat knees to the head and to take full force shins to the noggin. Sort out the standard of fighters at that level and everything will more or less take care of itself I reckon.

I don't expect things will change anytime soon however. I don't really enjoy undercards to be honest due to the low quality of bouts. I've no interest in seeing people "swing for the fences" or dook it out, grab each other's head and swing each other around then run out of gas in 2 minutes. In my gym we use C class fights for one reason- to gain ring/cage experience and work towards professional fights, which is the goal of most fighters. Sure, some guys will stop after 1 or 2 Cs but that's okay. So what I'm looking for my guys to do at C class when they fight is execute a game plan, use the skills and technique they posess (no matter what level it's at) to try to win the fight. Honestly, hand on my heart, if one of my guys went in and swung wildly for two minutes and then knocked the guy out in a C class fight I'd be pissed off at him as that's an opportunity to fight the way he's been taught gone to waste. You don't get too many chances to fight and show what you're about so to do it with no appreciable skill is a waste of your time and a waste of my time having trained you if you go in and do what you could have done the day you first walked into the gym.

However it happens as pretty much every show now is high pressure, sold out, all their mates watching, ticket commission in their pocket, loads of beers in the crowd, big event, big screens, lighting etc. random words here but you get my point. So from being a debutante learning his trade he becomes the star attraction with pressure to put on a big show for the crowd. I think that's wrong. really wrong and I will never expose a minor to that.

GSPfan

I could list off about 12 clubs who I feel make up the bulk of MMA cards I've attended around the country. Through reading the posts on boards.ie I'm pretty sure they are all represented in here by their Coaches.

So..... Can you all just set aside some time to contact each other and firstly debate whether we should have unified rules. If all agree, you could then agree on what those rules should be. Surely the only real issues are the ones mentioned in the original post.

As a large portion of fighters would be supplied by your clubs to new shows you could refuse to attend unless they adhere to these rules. Its a powerful way of assuring these rules don't go ignored.

Martin Walker

GSPfan wrote: »

I could list off about 12 clubs who I feel make up the bulk of MMA cards I've attended around the country. Through reading the posts on boards.ie I'm pretty sure they are all represented in here by their Coaches.

So..... Can you all just set aside some time to contact each other and firstly debate whether we should have unified rules. If all agree, you could then agree on what those rules should be. Surely the only real issues are the ones mentioned in the original post.

As a large portion of fighters would be supplied by your clubs to new shows you could refuse to attend unless they adhere to these rules. Its a powerful way of assuring these rules don't go ignored.

If only it was as easy as this. We have tried before. All the promoters in Northern Ireland sat down and tried to thrash out a unified rule set. We did. But not everyone stuck with it.
Now im not saying that i wouldnt do it again. But i doubt it would make much difference. Everyone will run there show which ever way they see fit and no-one on here or any other website will be able to change that.

On our show we use the "old" Classes. A,B,C,D. Basically:

D-CLASS. Same as the mmaleague. Shin pads manditory.
C-CLASS. Head shots standing but not on ground. Shin pads optional.
B-Class. Head shots standing and grounded but no elbows.
A-Class. Full Pro.

All classes use 4oz competition gloves.
I like these rules and i think im gonna stick with them.

pcbefr

I like these rules and i think im gonna stick with them.[/QUOTE]

And this is where the problem lies!! Everyone wanting the rules they like and that's it. Its my show so its my rules. It cant go on like this. We all want the same goal, to make MMA a main stream sport.
If all the main clubs where to get together there would have to be some give and take. Not all the rules I would like were implemented, the fact is that if we are to get a set of unified rules going then not everyone is going to be happy but if it is majority rules then everyone should accept it.
If a meeting takes place, then once all the rules have been agreed, those willing to adhere to them should sign some sort of agreement to use these rules and only enter their fighters into shows that have signed up.
Sooner or later we will be forced into making this happen by some sort of accident, it is only a matter of time, its the nature of combat sports.
Lets be honest, the main problem is C class, everyone is happy with the other classes, so why cant we all come to an agreement on C class.
I have thrown up ideas that could please everyone, U18 and fighters with, say, up to 2fights, it should be mandatory to wear shin guards, after that if 1 side wants it then both have to wear them. Its very simple to find this out durning the match making and pair up like minded fighters.
I know you said you let your fighters decide but as a coach/trainer do you not feel YOU should make that decision for them being the more experienced? If Joe Clarke or Sean Crowe said they didnt want to wear them I would have no problem, they are experienced but if a novice fighter with balls to burn asked I would say NO!! Simple, I have already lost a fighter with great potential because I let him fight without shin guards, he now will have a metal plate in his jaw for the rest of his life and his career is over before it even got started.
I would hate this to happen to someone else with such a love for the sport just because we, as coaches/promoters let our egos get in the way.
Sometimes we should put whats best for the sport in front of what we want.

GSPfan

Well said, and fair play to you for bringing up the subject. Couldn't agree with you more to be honest.

mmaireland.com

pcbefr wrote: »

I would hate this to happen to someone else with such a love for the sport just because we, as coaches/promoters let our egos get in the way.
Sometimes we should put whats best for the sport in front of what we want.

+1.

DeadlyByDesign

Sorry to play the dick here but it seems like a bit of a cop out by saying "we tried before nothing worked". Surely it's worth another bash at a round table talk or something of that ilk? Like some other poster said, fighter safety should be paramount. We dont want the Joe Duffy brigade getting restless.

David Jones

On our show we use the "old" Classes. A,B,C,D. Basically:

D-CLASS. Same as the mmaleague. Shin pads manditory.
C-CLASS. Head shots standing but not on ground. Shin pads optional.
B-Class. Head shots standing and grounded but no elbows.
A-Class. Full Pro.

All classes use 4oz competition gloves.
I like these rules and i think im gonna stick with them.

I really wish everyone would adopt these rules. It would make every show much easier to officiate at. I actually think all Under 16s should mandatory fight D rules. Above 16 I have no problem with fighting D, C, B or A provided they have the necessary experience.

We are hopefully beyond the stage of putting one dimensional MMA fighters in the cage to fight pro rules.
Athletes wanting to get involved in MMA at
D class should have basic skills in stand up preferably with some clinch work, Ground and wrestling, and I would put them in that deliberate order as to their availability in this country.
C class fighters should have had preferably some MMA league experience, and or some D class experience before stepping up to C class. I guess there can be exceptions if an athlete has a ton of Muay Thai or full contact Kickboxing fights and has a developed good ground base over a 12 month + period for example.

B class fighters should have experience of MMA league or D class and C class fights with a proven ability to demonstrate good knowledge of the ground game this is where head shots are allowed and a solid base on the floor is necessary. Exceptions to the rule would be an athlete with extensive ground game experience, good wrestling and 12 months of stand up. In this example This means he has the ability to get the fight to the floor, survive adequately on the feet while offering some offence.

A class fighters should have experience of MMA league or D class and C class and B class fights showing an ability to strike on the feet and defend against strikes, wrestle in the clinch and shoot and defend both, extensive ground game with good offence and defence. Exceptions to the rule would be someone with extensive stand up background and extensive ground back ground or indeed extensive wrestling. Excelling in two of the areas means the fighter has a higher percentage chance of keeping the fight where he wants it. Chad from my gym would be an example. Good solid stand up, All state wrestling and 4 months of Jiu Jitsu when he fought on Spartan.

I think if you are putting athletes or indeed allowing athletes to decide what level they compete at before they are ready then you are doing them a disservice. If everyone stuck to something similar to above, there would be no issues with safety etc.

As an aside, we dont allow Heel hooks in A class in this country so technically even it is modified. But since most people have to work and walk the next day or day after fights there is wisdom in that. Its bad enough having to watch two fighters do ankle locks and figure of fours wrong without adding to the mess.

Just my two penneth.

Martin Walker

David Jones wrote: »

I really wish everyone would adopt these rules. It would make every show much easier to officiate at. I actually think all Under 16s should mandatory fight D rules. Above 16 I have no problem with fighting D, C, B or A provided they have the necessary experience.

We are hopefully beyond the stage of putting one dimensional MMA fighters in the cage to fight pro rules.
Athletes wanting to get involved in MMA at
D class should have basic skills in stand up preferably with some clinch work, Ground and wrestling, and I would put them in that deliberate order as to their availability in this country.
C class fighters should have had preferably some MMA league experience, and or some D class experience before stepping up to C class. I guess there can be exceptions if an athlete has a ton of Muay Thai or full contact Kickboxing fights and has a developed good ground base over a 12 month + period for example.

B class fighters should have experience of MMA league or D class and C class fights with a proven ability to demonstrate good knowledge of the ground game this is where head shots are allowed and a solid base on the floor is necessary. Exceptions to the rule would be an athlete with extensive ground game experience, good wrestling and 12 months of stand up. In this example This means he has the ability to get the fight to the floor, survive adequately on the feet while offering some offence.

A class fighters should have experience of MMA league or D class and C class and B class fights showing an ability to strike on the feet and defend against strikes, wrestle in the clinch and shoot and defend both, extensive ground game with good offence and defence. Exceptions to the rule would be someone with extensive stand up background and extensive ground back ground or indeed extensive wrestling. Excelling in two of the areas means the fighter has a higher percentage chance of keeping the fight where he wants it. Chad from my gym would be an example. Good solid stand up, All state wrestling and 4 months of Jiu Jitsu when he fought on Spartan.

I think if you are putting athletes or indeed allowing athletes to decide what level they compete at before they are ready then you are doing them a disservice. If everyone stuck to something similar to above, there would be no issues with safety etc.

As an aside, we dont allow Heel hooks in A class in this country so technically even it is modified. But since most people have to work and walk the next day or day after fights there is wisdom in that. Its bad enough having to watch two fighters do ankle locks and figure of fours wrong without adding to the mess.

Just my two penneth.

This is how it should be.
Like i said we use these rules and i think they work fine.
And just to be clear if someone came to me with a guy that wanted to fight C-Class but wanted to wear shin pads and cut out knees to the head i would find him a like minded opponent. Ive done it i the past. I will happily make exceptions within reason if it helps lads in the long run.
And if everyone wants to get together and discuss things ill be there no problem.