Girl slapping my son in the face: What would you do?

The Corinthian

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Because I say or enforce "no son of mine will raise a hand to a girl" doesn't mean I am being chauvinistic.

Actually it does, from the moment you ascribe behaviour based upon gender, which in turn is based upon the presumption that girls cannot defend themselves and are thus are inferior to boys (ironically at nine years of age many girls are more mature than boys and thus bigger). Look up the definition in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

thats crazy talk in my opinion, and if treating genders equally means that males and females physcally fight, I don't think I want to live in that kind of world.

How about you teach your son to live in a world where physically fighting is wrong for either gender? I really don't get why you are insisting that I'm pushing for anyone to fight.

Micky Dolenz

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually it does, from the moment you ascribe behaviour based upon gender, which in turn is based upon the presumption that girls cannot defend themselves and are thus are inferior to boys (ironically at nine years of age many girls are more mature than boys and thus bigger). Look up the definition in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

Nah, your grand.

The Corinthian wrote: »

How about you teach your son to live in a world where physically fighting is wrong for either gender? I really don't get why you are insisting that I'm pushing for anyone to fight.

because like you, I live in the real world, where ideals like that don't exist. Every boy will get into scraps, It is more acceptable to react with same against another boy than a girl. What our children learn now will stay with them for the rest of their life's. i would like to teach mine to be able to stand up from themselves without violence but if they must fight, only do it as a last restort. But no boy on girl action (violence wise)

Nevyn

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yes, he should learn that but sometimes conflict against other boys can't be avoided.

Sometimes conflict against girls can't be avoided either.

Micky Dolenz

Thaedydal wrote: »

Sometimes conflict against girls can't be avoided either.

true, but in life many problems will arise. Seeking soultions to these will be a challenge.

The Corinthian

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

because like you, I live in the real world, where ideals like that don't exist. Every boy will get into scraps, It is more acceptable to react with same against another boy than a girl.

Circular argument - it's only more acceptable because of chauvinism.

What our children learn now will stay with them for the rest of their life's.

That's kind of the problem. The lessons you are giving your son are that:

1. Girls are weaker and inferior.
2. Violence with other boys works.

i would like to teach mine to be able to stand up from themselves without violence but if they must fight, only do it as a last restort. But no boy on girl action (violence wise)

I agree with you up to the last bit as gender should make no difference. So if a woman assaults you, you can't defend yourself? What if you have a 'Fatal Attraction' moment? Maybe a bunch of flowers will solve the issue?

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

true, but in life many problems will arise. Seeking soultions to these will be a challenge.

You're taking the piss at this stage. So with girls you overcome the challenge of seeking an alternative solution, but with guys you can box them?

Sure, all this was charming logic back in my great-grandfather's day when you could have mistresses and negotiate with Africans using Gatling guns and mustard gas, but I do think in the modern World it's probably time for you to smell the coffee for the sake of any son you might have.

johnmcdnl

just say it too the teacher... the teacher will keep an eye out for it... then the teacher can discipline the girl and nobody has to know that your son complained about it at all...

therefore your son keeps face and the girl is dealt with basically

Micky Dolenz

The Corinthian wrote: »

Circular argument - it's only more acceptable because of chauvinism.

yes, but thats the world we live in.

The Corinthian wrote: »

That's kind of the problem. The lessons you are giving your son are that:

1. Girls are weaker and inferior.
2. Violence with other boys works

Don't think you getting me. Girls aren't inferior, but for the large part most of a persons life, a woman won't be as strong as a man. Violence againist the same sex does not work.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I agree with you up to the last bit as gender should make no difference. So if a woman assaults you, you can't defend yourself? What if you have a 'Fatal Attraction' moment? Maybe a bunch of flowers will solve the issue?

You're taking the piss at this stage. So with girls you overcome the challenge of seeking an alternative solution, but with guys you can box them?

.

I can only speak from my own experiance. I have never had a woman attack me, where as a few men have. It's the nature of the sexes, I've probably been slapped by a woman but it wouldn't mean I slap back. If a man slapped me, which is unlikely, it would be more of a punch, you can be sure I'd react with same.
If a woman punched me, I would defend myself of course, by restraining her or moving away, not by punching back. If I thought my life was in danger I may re-evaluate my standing on that, Thankfully nothing like that has ever happened me.

What would you do if a woman attacked you?

The Corinthian wrote: »

Sure, all this was charming logic back in my great-grandfather's day when you could have mistresses and negotiate with Africans using Gatling guns and mustard gas, but I do think in the modern World it's probably time for you to smell the coffee for the sake of any son you might have.

Excuse me?

The Corinthian

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

yes, but thats the world we live in.

It's not really though and you admitted it yourself by calling yourself 'old fashioned'. Slowly but surely attitudes have and continue to change, so that by the time your children's generation reaches adulthood, such views will be grossly out of date.

Don't think you getting me. Girls aren't inferior, but for the large part most of a persons life, a woman won't be as strong as a man.

Of course I get you, because such views are rarely limited to simply physical strength. Would you stay at home minding the kids while your wife was the breadwinner, for example, or are you 'old fashioned' there too?

I have never had a woman attack me, where as a few men have.

What's that mean?

If a woman punched me, I would defend myself of course, by restraining her or moving away, not by punching back. If I thought my life was in danger I may re-evaluate my standing on that, Thankfully nothing like that has ever happened me.

What would you do if a woman attacked you?

Probably in exactly the same way as if a man attacked me. Depends on the attack - men due to strength tend to be more physically dangerous, but not in all cases and some women can be just as dangerous.

If a woman has made an attack comparable to a man and punching her back in self defence would be the appropriate thing to do to a man, then that is what she'd get.

Excuse me?

You and he share the same values, only he lived in the correct century for them.

Micky Dolenz

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's not really though and you admitted it yourself by calling yourself 'old fashioned'. Slowly but surely attitudes have and continue to change, so that by the time your children's generation reaches adulthood, such views will be grossly out of date.

I said old school, old fashioned is a different thing. Look up the definition in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Of course I get you, because such views are rarely limited to simply physical strength. Would you stay at home minding the kids while your wife was the breadwinner, for example, or are you 'old fashioned' there too?

Thats a completeit different arguement and I'm not sure I get your point.

The Corinthian wrote: »

What's that mean?

I have been attacked by other males, be it on a sports field, outside a niteculb etc. I have rarely been attacked by a female. (unless it was family and I was young/deserved it)

The Corinthian wrote: »

You and he share the same values, only he lived in the correct century for them.

Your great grand da, sounds great alright. Pity it got lost on way down.

finty

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually it does, from the moment you ascribe behaviour based upon gender, which in turn is based upon the presumption that girls cannot defend themselves and are thus are inferior to boys (ironically at nine years of age many girls are more mature than boys and thus bigger). Look up the definition in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

How does labelling a female a whore or slapper fit with your non-chauvinistic mindset?


And then you suggest someone elses behaviour is based on chauvinism


you make me laugh:D

Tail Wagger

look take it from an old git like myself, "never fight with your neighbour over kids" Please not all together. I know you don't fight with your neighbour, but some people don't like anyone saying things about their precious little children. there's a true saying "there's only one beautyful child in the world , thats everyones.

Kids fallout to day and are the best of mates to morrow. So my advice like most people have said report it to the principal of the School on the qt, they will deal with the matter. f you don't want to do that well your son will be in for a rough time from this kid!, so good luck in what ever you decide to do.

The Corinthian

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I said old school, old fashioned is a different thing. Look up the definition in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

It's slang so you won't actually find it in a dictionary. However according to Wikipedia it "can refer to anything that is from an earlier era." - which was my point.

I suggest you know what you're talking about before attempting to correct me.

Thats a completeit different arguement and I'm not sure I get your point.

The point is that values such as "don't hit (only) girls" don't exist in a vacuum, and are typically accompanied with other sexist views. On that note, and again, would you stay at home minding the kids while your wife was the breadwinner?

I have been attacked by other males, be it on a sports field, outside a niteculb etc. I have rarely been attacked by a female. (unless it was family and I was young/deserved it)

Deserved it? LOL. You sound like a battered wife.

Your great grand da, sounds great alright. Pity it got lost on way down.

Why did you have to go and get personal now? My point is that he lived in a different age and his values are out of place with the modern World, and will be even more so in our childrens' World. Some of his values, common in his time, would be considered quite alien today.

Not all values will change, but those relating to gender roles already have and will continue to do so. We can either teach our children to adapt to those changes or disadvantage them on principle.

finty wrote: »

How does labelling a female a whore or slapper fit with your non-chauvinistic mindset?

I said use their logic against them, I didn't say I believed in it.

you make me laugh:D

I suspect the funnies in the tabloids can do that too.

Micky Dolenz

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's slang so you won't actually find it in a dictionary. However according to Wikipedia it "can refer to anything that is from an earlier era." - which was my point.

I suggest you know what you're talking about before attempting to correct me.
.

You actually looked it up? thats cute, thought you'd repond with "Nah, your grand" :pac:

The Corinthian wrote: »

The point is that values such as "don't hit (only) girls" don't exist in a vacuum, and are typically accompanied with other sexist views. On that note, and again, would you stay at home minding the kids while your wife was the breadwinner?

So teaching the next generation to don't hit girls is sexist? are you for real?.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Deserved it? LOL. You sound like a battered wife.

Is that what a battered wife sounds like, that ain't funny. I was referring to my childhood and my interaction of my many older sisters. I was a bold scut.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Why did you have to go and get personal now? My point is that he lived in a different age and his values are out of place with the modern World, and will be even more so in our childrens' World. Some of his values, common in his time, would be considered quite alien today.

And here lies the crux of our problem. just because I share some values with your Great grand da, doesn't mean I share them all. Values are what civilised societies are built on. Lump them all together and strip them away at your own peril.

TargetWidow

With 5 brothers and fairly neglectful parents I learned young to fight my corner. Physically sometimes. No-one ever intervened to tell us that "you don't do that". I carried this (dysfunctional) behaviour with me throughout my teens and would playfully cuff boyfriends about the head and face (never really what you would call hitting or slapping though...). Until I met the man who is now my husband. He was quite badly and often battered as a child by one of his parents so his threshold for violence was different from what my dysfunctional upbringing had taught me was normal. He put up with it two or three times but when the opportunity arose, he pinned me to the ground and tickled the living ****e outta me until I swore I would never raise a hand to him again. When the laughter subsided he explained his reasons and I saw for the very first time that it wasn't ok to be like I was with people. Strangely I had never done this to girls. But from that point on I never did it again. To anyone. He made it very clear that it would not be tolerated. The gender issue is irrelevant. Kids or adults of any gender have no business hitting each other. For any reason. We are little more than monkies if this is how we choose to comport ourselves.

The Corinthian

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You actually looked it up? thats cute, thought you'd repond with "Nah, your grand" :pac:

Is that your way of admitting that you were talking rubbish?

So teaching the next generation to don't hit girls is sexist? are you for real?.

It is sexist when you consider it all right to hit boys, and you have said this. Why have you omitted that detail to your argument? Indeed, why are you repeatedly attempting to claim that I am pushing for anyone to be hit?

Is that what a battered wife sounds like, that ain't funny. I was referring to my childhood and my interaction of my many older sisters. I was a bold scut.

Indeed it's not funny when a victim of violence blames themselves for that violence and feels it was somehow 'their fault', but that's what happens. And that is what you sound like.

And here lies the crux of our problem. just because I share some values with your Great grand da, doesn't mean I share them all. Values are what civilised societies are built on. Lump them all together and strip them away at your own peril.

I suspect you share quite a few values with my great-grandfather. For example, you have now on two occasions avoided answering my question as to whether you would stay at home minding the kids while your wife was the breadwinner?

No need to answer at this stage as you've done so through omission.

Victor

Magnus wrote: »

Yeah, you need to emphasise that hitting is not on, neither is being hit.

Just be careful that you don't give off the vibe that he is a failure for being slapped or that he needs a third party to stand up for himself.

metrovelvet

Perhaps some basic self defense would be appropriate. Tell him never get to get close enough to her so that she can slap him. If for whatever reason this fails, assuming she is right handed he can use his left forearm to block the oncoming slap, freeing his right hand to do something else, like protect the rest of his body.

A solicitors letter to the school might also work, perfume the paper with the scent of litigation.

Nevyn

Stella777 wrote: »

Not only is he "the new kid," but so am I. The girl's mother is very much in the loop. You know, one of those mothers who are constantly at the school volunteering and gossiping with the other mothers. There is a certain Stepford Wife atmosphere here that I'm not used to.

I'd just as soon not be on her hit list, if you know what I mean.

Oh I know the type, there's a clutch of them that 'run' things in my kids school and despite my eldest being in 6th class some of them still have 'seniority' as they had big enough families to have had two kids go through the school and 1 or 2 still in it.

But that being said I'd battle them all for the sake of my kids and I don't' see why you said it to the mother it if happen during school time. If it happens during school time it falls under the code of conduct for the school and the national policy on bullying which was rolled out with the dept of education to all schools.

Stella777 wrote: »

OTOH, I don't want the girl to continue to hit my child in the face. It's simply unacceptable. There's no way I'm going to encourage him to hit her back. Not only does that go against my own values, but it won't end well for him.

I have a strong suspicion that even if he barely touched her, she'd turn on the dramatic tears and he'd find himself in the principal's office.

It seems he needs to learn to "Speak Out" and "Tell".
To Speak Out that he doesn't want her to do that, to tell her not to do it again to do so loudly enough so that others hear.

IF she doesn't stop then the next step is to Tell, to tell who ever is supervising the yard or the teacher.

Stella777 wrote: »

I think I might approach the school counsellor and ask her to have a word with the girl without involving the mother. From what I gather, the cousellor is very popular with the kids, so maybe the girl will listen to her. The mother seems very close to the teacher and is always volunteering for class activities. I think it's better to involve someone more neutral. I've told my son that if it happens again, he must, in whatever words he thinks sound right, tell her never to do it again and he has to walk away from her. I think the walking away part is important, so she learns that hitting is not the right way to gain attention.

So it seems lil miss popular thinks she can get away with it and will have let your son know that she won't be his friend or everyone else won't be his friend. Sorry but no one should have to suffer friends like that. I really do hope you take it to the teacer or if he is in secondary school the head of his year or the vice principal or why not all of the above.

Sleepy

Thaedydal wrote: »

should he also learn not to react against a male with violence, there are other tools that may be employed?

I suppose I answered a little quickly.

My suggestion to the child would be the same regardless of gender: tell the other person it's not acceptable, try to reason with them and if that doesn't work, then meet force with force.

I doubt the school-yard has changed that much since our own days there: if parents/teachers became involved in any quarrel between children it was the 'victim' the class looked badly at, not the agressor. The boy needs to learn how to sort this one out himself and if the 'walk away after letting the girl know the dramatics are pathetic' doesn't prevent her from slapping him again, the best thing for both of them is for him to slap back (or pull the slap at the last second leaving the girl in no doubt that it won't be pulled the next time).

Tail Wagger

TargetWidow wrote: »

With 5 brothers and fairly neglectful parents I learned young to fight my corner. Physically sometimes. No-one ever intervened to tell us that "you don't do that". I carried this (dysfunctional) behaviour with me throughout my teens and would playfully cuff boyfriends about the head and face (never really what you would call hitting or slapping though...). Until I met the man who is now my husband. He was quite badly and often battered as a child by one of his parents so his threshold for violence was different from what my dysfunctional upbringing had taught me was normal. He put up with it two or three times but when the opportunity arose, he pinned me to the ground and tickled the living ****e outta me until I swore I would never raise a hand to him again. When the laughter subsided he explained his reasons and I saw for the very first time that it wasn't ok to be like I was with people. Strangely I had never done this to girls. But from that point on I never did it again. To anyone. He made it very clear that it would not be tolerated. The gender issue is irrelevant. Kids or adults of any gender have no business hitting each other. For any reason. We are little more than monkies if this is how we choose to comport ourselves.

Well the next time I pass the local and see everyone outside tickling each other I'll know they were all looking at this thread. We had a good old tickling fight to night. I suppose we'll have to hire a few laughing cop's now............ If it worked for you well done...

moonpurple

earlier quote from OP: \Not only is he "the new kid," but so am I. The girl's mother is very much in the loop. You know, one of those mothers who are constantly at the school volunteering and gossiping with the other mothers. There is a certain Stepford Wife atmosphere here that I'm not used to.

I'd just as soon not be on her hit list, if you know what I mean.'

this goes on a lot, but the most of the parents come in and out without needing to bend the knee to these unelected busybodies, I encountered borderline rudeness as I went to buy the disco ticket for some parents association event, at the communion events its almost monarchial with one individual in particular,

i already spoke to the teacher when one kid was carrying out the wish of his parents to boss everone around,

the teacher can deal with things directly..in the choice between the dagger looks of some wagon or your child..the choice is an easy one