Gormley to go?

anymore

Is this the only example of a political party which has more Ministers than ordinary members of parliement ? .. not to mention more ministers than local authority members ?

imme

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No not really an O'Dea man (prefer that to Willie-man )) . .

And I have no issue with Dan O'Boyle representing the GP on the radio . . It does seem however that he has a disproportionate influence on the GP in government, during the PfG negotiations he was leading the way and then during the O'Dea affair he undermined all of his cabinet table colleagues. . . Not sure its appropriate that an unelected senator has such influence . . and its not even in Seanad Eireann, its on Twitter !

Is Gormley the leader of the GP, or is it Dan Boyle ?

PfG negotiators are nominated by their parties. Seamus Brennan was part of the FF 1997 PfG negotiations with the PD's. Does this mean he'd a disproportionate role in FF thereafter. He went on to be Govt Chief Whip after the govt formation.
The Greens couldn't buy the Willie story, that's why he went.

Euro_Kraut

anymore wrote: »

Is this the only example of a political party which has more Ministers than ordinary members of parliement ? .. not to mention more ministers than local authority members ?

Good point. More ministers than councilors.

Perhaps even more Ministers than votes

hallelujajordan

imme wrote: »

PfG negotiators are nominated by their parties. Seamus Brennan was part of the FF 1997 PfG negotiations with the PD's. Does this mean he'd a disproportionate role in FF thereafter. He went on to be Govt Chief Whip after the govt formation.
The Greens couldn't buy the Willie story, that's why he went.

Understood but Brennan was elected, Boyle was rejected. . .

And lets not forget that Gormley voted confidence in O'Dea 24 hours before he resigned . . It was only on Twitter that the Greens expressed the 'No Confidence' vote . .

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Understood but Brennan was elected, Boyle was rejected. . .

And lets not forget that Gormley voted confidence in O'Dea 24 hours before he resigned . . It was only on Twitter that the Greens expressed the 'No Confidence' vote . .

Boyle was rejected by the good voyers of Cork but FF were so impressed by him that the great hero of FF B. Ahern elevated hiim to Seanad Eireann . In fact this was not the first time that FF and Mr Ahern acknowledged the high esteem in which Mr Boyle is held by FF.
In fact Mr Ahern appointed Mr Boyle to the National Economic and Social Council. So clearly for the FF Party Mr Boyle is a man of substance indeed !

hallelujajordan

anymore wrote: »

Boyle was rejected by the good voyers of Cork but FF were so impressed by him that the great hero of FF B. Ahern elevated hiim to the Dail. In fact this was not the first time that FF and Mr Ahern acknowledged the high esteem in which Mr Boyle is held by FF.
In fact Mr Ahern appointed Mt Boyle to the National Economic and Social Council. So clearly for the FF Party Mr Biyle is a man of substance indeed !

No, they elevated him to the Seanad !

And it says nothing about Aherne or FF's view of Dan Boyle. All it says is that FF are willing to sit down, negotiate and form partnerships in order to form governments . . and unless the situation changes remarkably I can't see such a requirement ever being removed from Irish politics. .

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No, they elevated him to the Seanad !

And it says nothing about Aherne or FF's view of Dan Boyle. All it says is that FF are willing to sit down, negotiate and form partnerships in order to form governments . . and unless the situation changes remarkably I can't see such a requirement ever being removed from Irish politics. .

Mr Ahern did not need to appoint Mr Boyle to the NESC ! He choose to presumably because of his talents !He is your boy - live with it !

hallelujajordan

anymore wrote: »

Mr Ahern did not need to appoint Mr Boyle to the NESC ! He choose to presumably because of his talents !He is your boy - live with it !

Mr Boyle isn't my boy . . Mr Boyle is an unelected twit(terer) who has too much influence over government

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Mr Boyle isn't my boy . . Mr Boyle is an unelected twit(terer) who has too much influence over government

Let me see, he doesnt sit at cabinet, his party has what 6 or TDs ?
FF control the amount of influence the Greens can have. Are FF totally incompentent ?

hallelujajordan

anymore wrote: »

Let me see, he doesnt sit at cabinet, his party has what 6 or TDs ?
FF control the amount of influence the Greens can have. Are FF totally incompentent ?

Minority party is always going to have disproportionate strength in government because they can threaten to walk away at any time . . when that threat comes in a veiled way over twitter from an unelected party chairman the effect is equally destabilising, but much less appropriate. . it says nothing of FF's competence.

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Mr Boyle isn't my boy . . Mr Boyle is an unelected twit(terer) who has too much influence over government

Hally you have to read this little speech from Danny Boy, classic Fianna Fail, isnt it ? No wonder Bertie loves him, so much !

There is a feel of the 1980s about where we are at the moment, with the re-emergence of high unemployment and the willingness to emigrate, if there was somewhere to emigrate to. We even have Marian apparitions, on tree stumps instead of moving statues. I do not want to go back to the 1980s, we have come further than that in the last 25 years and we have the capacity now to learn from what we gained from economic success, even those hard lessons about rewarding and acknowledging the wrong people while failing to spread wealth equally. We also know, however, that we have the capacity to bring about a better Ireland

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Minority party is always going to have disproportionate strength in government because they can threaten to walk away at any time . . when that threat comes in a veiled way over twitter from an unelected party chairman the effect is equally destabilising, but much less appropriate. . it says nothing of FF's competence.

I'd say that is a sign of how impotent and incompetent Cowen and Co are !

hallelujajordan

anymore wrote: »

I'd say that is a sign of how impotent and incompetent Cowen and Co are !

Impotent ? ?

An incompetent leader would not have succeeded in navigating both his party and a coalition government through one of the most difficult years in politics in the last 30 or so . .

gandalf

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Impotent ? ?

An incompetent leader would not have succeeded in navigating both his party and a coalition government through one of the most difficult years in politics in the last 30 or so . .

Stop slapping yourselves on the back my friend. He hasn't succeeded doing anything yet.

Personally I believe he has given a great performance of a rabbit staring at the headlamps of an oncoming juggernaut.

hallelujajordan

deadtiger wrote: »

Stop slapping yourselves on the back my friend. He hasn't succeeded doing anything yet.

Personally I believe he has given a great performance of a rabbit staring at the headlamps of an oncoming juggernaut.

No backslapping at all mate, but I can honestly say that this time last year I would have agreed with you and I fully expected the government to fall during 2009. . .

However the rabbit managed to dodge the wheels of the Juggernaut and since then has negotiated a convoy of vehicles and kept his government together. I hope that he will reshuffle in a sensible way, remove some of his obvious weak links and establish a cabinet that will lead us through to 2012 . .

DeVore

What did he dodge??


There is absolutely no way we, the people, can oust them. They have a majority (when you add in the selfush Greens) and they are riding their "mandate" as far as it will take them because they are just as aware as we are that thats going to be the end of the line.

Might as well milk the gravy train till then!

Seriously, what exactly could have ousted them? We live in a 5-year recurring dictatorship lol....

DeV.

expectationlost

anyone miss 99er?

hallelujajordan

DeVore wrote: »

What did he dodge??

• Bankruptcy
• A Lisbon Referendum that could have gone horribly wrong
• A mid-term PfG negotiation where many within the GP wanted to exit government
• Took the public sector and unions head on and came out a more popular leader
• Managed to keep his cabinet and parliamentary party together throughout it all . .

DeVore wrote:

We live in a 5-year recurring dictatorship lol....

We call it democracy . . .

Seth Brundle

hallelujajordan wrote: »

An incompetent leader would not have succeeded in navigating both his party and a coalition government through one of the most difficult years in politics in the last 30 or so . .

We are still losing jobs, having to raise the retirement age by 3 years, daily revelations of public service feck ups, etc.
Don't confuse holding the most powerful seat in the state with being a leader. Cowen has not given anyone any leadership since he took over from his predecessor.
At this stage people are sick and tired. They know FF are crooks and that the greens are their lapdogs. However, they also know that the alternative isn't going to be hugely better but seem to be ready and willing to try them out. We just need the opportunity.

gandalf

This is still brewing away in the background. From Todays Examiner

THE Government has clammed up after fresh reports of an increasingly farcical situation developing around the Green Party’s ministerial rotation policy.

Yesterday evening, TV3 reported that Environment Minister John Gormley had confirmed to the party’s national executive committee of the existence of a Cabinet rotation pact between him and backbench TD, Ciarán Cuffe.

The report said the parliamentary party deal had previously been kept secret from the committee.

It involves Mr Cuffe replacing Mr Gormley as Environment Minister and party leader in the looming Cabinet reshuffle.

Mr Gormley told the committee he was willing to step down if Taoiseach Brian Cowen did not give in to the party’s demand for a third Cabinet seat or if Mr Cuffe exercised his claim to the post, the report stated.

So far the greens haven't confirmed of denied anything bar the meeting happened.

Full Article is here.

anymore

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No backslapping at all mate, but I can honestly say that this time last year I would have agreed with you and I fully expected the government to fall during 2009. . .

However the rabbit managed to dodge the wheels of the Juggernaut and since then has negotiated a convoy of vehicles and kept his government together. I hope that he will reshuffle in a sensible way, remove some of his obvious weak links and establish a cabinet that will lead us through to 2012 . .

when you are in charge of one of the only working lifeboats on a sinking vessel, then it is not too hard to persuade 80 odd of the ships crew that has driven the ship onto the rocks that they are better off in your lifeboat than in plunging into the churning sea