Embedding public transit in event tickets?

dowlingm

Howdy.

As mentioned in the underground metro thread, just back from the Vancouver Olympics. During the Games, possession of an event ticket was equivalent to a day-pass until 0400 next day for all transit services equivalent to DART / inner suburban IE, LUAS and Dublin Bus. During the games 180 extra buses were laid on as well as longer light-metro trains and "Seabus" river ferries were operated every 10 minutes.

This is now being proposed on an on-going basis for Vancouver Canucks and BC Lions hockey and football games, although it will take a while before this is decided one way or the other.

Here's my question - would Irish people accept it if major sporting or other events such as Six Nations, All Irelands, Ryder Cup etc. had public transport mandatorily embedded in the ticket cost for all seat categories, with the quid pro quo being a commitment by the operators to use the funds to put on sufficient service, and for the embedded cost being lower than an assumption of 100pc takeup since some people just won't use it and the ticket printing etc would be borne by the event organiser.

JHMEG

If it was €5 on a €40 ticket that would be acceptable, but I could see it being €20 or more, given who runs most of the public transport.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

If it was €5 on a €40 ticket that would be acceptable, but I could see it being €20 or more, given who runs most of the public transport.

Why would it be EUR 20 or more? A one day bus ticket is only EUR 6.00.

dowlingm

A bus/luas ticket is 7.50 euro atm, and bus/rail 10.20, so given some ticket holders will be children/OAPs who get discounts/freebies anyway the bulk cost should come in at 7-8 at most for a bus/luas/rail combo no?

londonbus

The plan for London 2012 is that a Travelcard will be bundled with admissions tickets to the Olympics Park - or Wembley.... Seems to make sense.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

A one day bus ticket is only EUR 6.00.

Covers more than bus, covers all forms of public transport. Because it's CIE anything is possible.

If it was at a slight discount over the normal price I would be in favour of it, but as an option. Public transport doesn't work for a whole pile of people.

DundalkDuffman

Bundesliga and even regionaliga games in Germany have rail included within their region in the ticket cost. Travel on day of match return right up to after midnight after the game.Suppose thats what comes from having a proper integrated transport service.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

Covers more than bus, covers all forms of public transport. Because it's CIE anything is possible.

If it was at a slight discount over the normal price I would be in favour of it, but as an option. Public transport doesn't work for a whole pile of people.

With due respect that's being a tad unfair - the Dublin Bus range of prepaid tickets are pretty good value, especially the longer period ones.

As for being obliged to purchase it - I would agree with you - it doesn't suit everyone - as an option it could be a good idea!

monument

It depends. Only for large-scale events for starters.

Maybe first bring it in as a mandatory option that organisers must provide? Maybe only for Dublin when you give Dublin as an address? Maybe for everybody only after Metro North and the interconnector are finished?

More questions than answers, sorry.

Cookie_Monster

so what if you are walking / driving to these events, why should you have to pay an extra 10-20 quid to subsidise others tickets?

monument

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what if you are walking / driving to these events, why should you have to pay an extra 10-20 quid to subsidise others tickets?

Yes, money is the part I forgot to cover.

In general, for it to be realistic as mandatory for all it likely could not be €5 or more. Maybe €4? You're talking about a discount, but you have so many extra users, and, not to mention, revenue from those who won't use it.

Cookie Monster's question is still an interesting one. Why should people who are not using public transport (walking, cycling) or those who cannot use it (no other option but driving, and few park and rides) pay for something they won't be using?

foggy_lad

i would like to see a transport add-on to event tickets costing no more than €5 and covering travel in dublin cork or whereever the event is and also transport on busses and trains to and from the event from the ticket holders home town/village,

i think the ticket holder should pay no more than €5 for this service and any extra be paid by the event organisers!

dowlingm

cookie monster/monument, because the city is for people that aren't going to the event too. They shouldn't have their business disrupted by masses of cars circling and looking for parking spaces.

I think mandatory is the way to go, as was done in Vancouver, people didn't freak out about it. The money can be paid upfront to the transit operators who can then put on buses without worrying about losing money due to lower than expected takeup. The aim should not to make it cheaper for those that take buses anyway but to get people out of their cars because you'd be mad not to.

It was mentioned that "transit isn't for everyone" - but the answer to that is to close the gaps not throw up your hands.

For the events at Whistler, you couldn't go on the highway north of Squamish without a permit for your car (if you lived there etc) or on a designated transport bus from three staging areas (which was paid for separately so they could predict numbers on routes which don't normally exist). This could be the model for rural events like Ryder Cup/Ploughing Championships.

Carawaystick

JHMEG wrote: »

Covers more than bus, covers all forms of public transport. Because it's CIE anything is possible.

There's more to public transport then CIÉ. I doubt Mick O'Leary would ever row in with his profitable public transport company.

There's a lot of merit with the city level public transport being compulsory.
However the level of public transport needs to increase along with park and ride.

There was a letter in the IT a while ago from a pensioner who left a gig early in the Point to get back to An Lár on time to get the last bus home to Cabinteely.
There's no point in forcing people to pay for public transport that leaves before they need it to go home.

Victor

One important things would be to speed up boarding. The last thing you want is 80,000 people buying single tickets from Drumcondra station after a game.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what if you are walking / driving to these events, why should you have to pay an extra 10-20 quid to subsidise others tickets?

You do realise what Drumcondra and surrounding areas are like on All Ireland Final days? Whatever about walking, removing teh cars would be a good idea around any event.

foggy_lad wrote: »

i think the ticket holder should pay no more than €5 for this service and any extra be paid by the event organisers!

Possibly semantics, but the punter will always end up paying as the promoter will pass on the cost. However, the current problem is that promoters aren't bearing the full cost themselves. If there was 100 buses waiting near Croke Park doing shuttles to the main stations and park & rides, the chaos would be much reduced.

Carawaystick wrote: »

There was a letter in the IT a while ago from a pensioner who left a gig early in the Point to get back to An Lár on time to get the last bus home to Cabinteely. There's no point in forcing people to pay for public transport that leaves before they need it to go home.

Well, that a whole other can of worms, why was an event running later than public transport? If the promoter wants a late event, we should have to pay.

Thoie

Would it be feasible to make the cost mandatory but have it cover park and ride facilities as well?

high heels

Belgium does this for there fesavals.. Its a great idea as it means you have no excuse for driving to it... It also helps at train stations as no ques..

The buses / trains will be running anyway.. Its not going to cost much. The likes of oxegen they should be trained to the nearest station and then get on free buses to the site.. The 200 buses it takes to make the trip back to dublin is stupid as you need 200 buses.. 5 trains could take the same amount of people and maybe 20-30 buses shuttle buses..

Victor

high heels wrote: »

Belgium does this for there fesavals.. Its a great idea as it means you have no excuse for driving to it... It also helps at train stations as no ques..

The buses / trains will be running anyway.. Its not going to cost much. The likes of oxegen they should be trained to the nearest station and then get on free buses to the site.. The 200 buses it takes to make the trip back to dublin is stupid as you need 200 buses.. 5 trains could take the same amount of people and maybe 20-30 buses shuttle buses..

Buses tend to carry 50-90 people. you aren't going to fit 2,000-3,600 people on a typical train.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

Buses tend to carry 50-90 people. you aren't going to fit 2,000-3,600 people on a typical train.

buses will be slower so you will need more, and will get caught in festival traffic and be slower still.

trains have no such issues so will be quicker, and require less surplus units.
so 5 trains would be enough I imagine

JHMEG

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's more to public transport then CIÉ.

Very hard to do public transport in Dublin without CIE. They have the monopoly on a lot of stuff, like rail.

Victor wrote:

why was an event running later than public transport?

Two things: 1. The Luas was probably still running, 2. The CIE part of public transport stops before most things. It's not just events that run later than CIE.. it's pubs, restaraunts, clubs etc.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what if you are walking / driving to these events, why should you have to pay an extra 10-20 quid to subsidise others tickets?

If I walk or bus to the events, why should I have to pay (taxes) for all the Gardai that are forced to do parking enforcement and traffic duty to stop the city grinding to a halt.

JHMEG wrote: »

Very hard to do public transport in Dublin without CIE. They have the monopoly on a lot of stuff, like rail.

There is also the RPA/Luas and hundreds of private hire bus companies.

KC61

This is not solely an Irish problem.

The rail companies in Wales (Arriva and First Great Western) did not lay later trains after normal finishing time following last Friday night's Wales -v- France Six Nations game in Cardiff. They actually warned people that they would only have a finite capacity, however they extended the validity of Friday return tickets to Saturday.

There ought to be an onus on organisers to try to fit events in with public transport - that unfortunately does not always happen.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

If I walk or bus to the events, why should I have to pay (taxes) for all the Gardai that are forced to do parking enforcement and traffic duty to stop the city grinding to a halt.

at least they'll be doing something other than sittin in the station :pac:

Padraig Mor

DundalkDuffman wrote: »

Bundesliga and even regionaliga games in Germany have rail included within their region in the ticket cost. Travel on day of match return right up to after midnight after the game.Suppose thats what comes from having a proper integrated transport service.

Was at a conference in Munich a few years ago. Your conference ID pass also doubled as a full public transport pass. So handy.

dowlingm

Conferences are big business in Toronto, so much so that the transit system has a specific pass:
http://www3.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Passes/Convention_pass.jsp

Cookie_Monster

The problem here is there is never any thought put into PT for events, other than throw on a few buses.

A prime example of this is the redevelopment of Lansdowne Rd, could easily have integrated a station or at least a siding for storing trains in anticipation of after match traffic but no, lets just have trains sit on the mainline at the station and disrupt the entire DART and Suburban schedule :rolleyes:

It should have been one of the planning permission conditions to have a station built.