James Bulger murderer Jon Venables returned to prison

BaZmO*

iguana wrote: »

There's a decent background article here.http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1993/nov/25/bulger

I don't know about it being decent. I just read it in full and it's like it's written by a 10 year old. Contradicts itself a couple of times too.

Jon was slim in build and taller than Robert, just over five feet

Really?

aidan24326

sparkydee wrote: »

I wonder what happened to compromise his identity? There have been numerous reports that he told people who he was. But you'd have to wonder why he would willingly tell people who he was? It will be interesting to see how this all develops..

It's hard to imagine he'd actually want to reveal his real identity. Given the level of public hatred towards himself and Venables that would be bordering on suicidal. It's possible that he inadvertently said something or revealed something about his past which caused someone to put 2 and 2 together. In any case, to keep something like that secret would be very difficult, as you'd have to lie about all those years of your life, and keep on doing so.

Co45

If reports of Venables using ecstasy heavily on weekends are true then I'm not suprised if he has been blabbering his mouth off about his past.

sparkydee

That's true i'd say it's a case of him telling people. Although maybe someone recognised him? People don't change that much in appearance... And venables is distinctive looking.

Collie D

Just watching Sky News where they mentioned Facebook pulled a page that falsely named someone as Venables. However, there are other pages. This has always been the main worry, that some poor swine would get the crap kcked out of him or worse because some agressive idiot gets worked up by some tabloid story.

The whole case is a train-wreck and no matter what Jack Straw does or says both he and the authorities will come out looking bad.

AARRRRGH

If he is under suspicion of having committed another crime then he must have his anonymity protected. Because if he does not get tried and convicted, then he is innocent and must be freed.

How would everyone here screaming for details like it if, assuming he did commit that crime, he walked because he couldnt get a fair trial because you all got your details?

You would actually be the cause of him walking away.

Magenta

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If he is under suspicion of having committed another crime then he must have his anonymity protected. Because if he does not get tried and convicted, then he is innocent and must be freed.

How would everyone here screaming for details like it if, assuming he did commit that crime, he walked because he couldnt get a fair trial because you all got your details?

You would actually be the cause of him walking away.

I have to admit I am one of the people who thinks that this man should not be protected any more.
However more than anything I want him to rot in jail and was not aware of what you have written above, in which case, everything should be kept quiet for the moment.
Is there any chance you have a link for what you have posted above?
Also, when the jury make their decision, will the judge be told, before sentencing, who this man really is and his past offences? Will the jury be told after they have made their decision?
Or does the injunction prevent that i.e. can he be sentenced under his false name (which is completely wrong in my onionion).

OutlawPete

Two short interesting discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1awf7YYxrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qLJvRnSuY4

Amalgam

Collie D wrote: »

Just watching Sky News where they mentioned Facebook pulled a page that falsely named someone as Venables. However, there are other pages. This has always been the main worry, that some poor swine would get the crap kcked out of him or worse because some agressive idiot gets worked up by some tabloid story.

The whole case is a train-wreck and no matter what Jack Straw does or says both he and the authorities will come out looking bad.

This is the man you're talking about, David Calvert. Not recent. Someone has been waging a campaign against him and his family for a few years now.

He is the target of the recent Facebook campaign. Frightening saga.

(apologies, it's the Daily Mail)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256533/Jon-Venables-Terror-young-father-accused-Bulger-killer-Facebook.html

bohsboy

I remember this case back in 1993 and was absolutely shocked and unsettled by it then. My son is now a little older than James was at the time and since this has all surfaced again I made the effort to read into the case again, what they did that poor poor child almost makes me physically sick.

Thompson never cracked under questioning, was quite arrogant, never ever showed any remorse and just tried to shift the blame. Venables weeped on his mothers lap during questioning and his biggest fear was being haunted by "the baby". Thompson asked the police to take his clothes as he could "smell the baby off them".

They will get whats due to them if there's any justice.

Foxhound38

bohsboy wrote: »

They will get whats due to them if there's any justice.

Are you suggesting that the Brits start hanging 10 year olds?

They were released, and Venables ****ed up. What nobody is mentioning here is that Thompson must be keeping his nose relatively clean as nobody mentioned a return trip for him. I would reckon that whether in prison or outside, they will be having a close eye kept on them for the rest of their lives.

bohsboy

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the Brits start hanging 10 year olds?

Hanging would be too humane for these animals. I suggest tying them to a rail line.

Foxhound38

bohsboy wrote: »

Hanging would be too humane for these animals. I suggest tying them to a rail line.

Because that's what the justice system is about? Bending the rules to appease the bloodlust of the mob?

If our system of justice is not applied evenly to everyone, including the worst of society, then that society is as broken as those it seeks to convict. The ironic part about this whole thing is that while everyone is scrambling to lock away their children and pets in a tabloid enduced panic, Jon Venables is for the first time in years sitting in a secure unit where he is unable to harm anyone.

I love mass hysteria...

the_dark_side

OutlawPete wrote: »

Two short interesting discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1awf7YYxrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qLJvRnSuY4

not to stray off topic, but Galloway may have picked up some interesting punishment tips from his aquaintances in the Middle East

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlzqMRRyDaM&feature=PlayList&p=C795598F5928A762&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19

bohsboy

I know, you're right and it is the calm and proper attitude to have. I immersed myself in this case since it surfaced again and wish I did'nt now.

Being a father now and trying to imagine being in a similar situation just brings an anger that I've never felt before.

MoodeRator

Sorry if it is already here somewhere, BUt has anyone seen the text message flying around the UK? naming "Jon Venables" and exactly why why he is back inside?

Foxhound38

bohsboy wrote: »

I know, you're right and it is the calm and proper attitude to have. I immersed myself in this case since it surfaced again and wish I did'nt now.

Being a father now and trying to imagine being in a similar situation just brings an anger that I've never felt before.

That's understandable. Being an father myself I couldn't even begin to imagine what I would be like had Jamie Bulgers situation happened to my daughter - but that is precisely why it would be Society as a whole (through the courts system) who would decide what to do with the perpetrator in that case and not myself as the victem.

iguana

Magenta wrote: »

I have to admit I am one of the people who thinks that this man should not be protected any more.
However more than anything I want him to rot in jail and was not aware of what you have written above, in which case, everything should be kept quiet for the moment.
Is there any chance you have a link for what you have posted above?

I'm not singling you out Magenta (especially as your comments show you are interested in learning more) but quoting this because it sums up one of the things which is píssing me off about this entire furore. People who clearly don't have the slightest clue about the most basic principles of law like fair trial and sub judice are screaming blue murder about this incident. They are often not even remotely interested in the fact that what they are demanding would negate the outcome they want.

Even worse is the fact that it is sections within the media leading this call and they do know that Venables can't be outed and if he is he can probably not be tried if he has committed another crime. They don't give a crap about justice, James, his family or about public safety. They want to sell papers/gain viewers and make a big profit. Generating shítstorms like this is enormously profitable because it's hugely self-feeding. All they have to do is report back and forth on each other and the chaos it's generating.

BaZmO*

bohsboy wrote: »

I know, you're right and it is the calm and proper attitude to have. I immersed myself in this case since it surfaced again and wish I did'nt now.

Being a father now and trying to imagine being in a similar situation just brings an anger that I've never felt before.

I think that's the problem with this case. If you stand back from it and view it rationally you know that mob rule is never a good thing, but as soon as you put any of your own kids (or nieces or nephews) into James' position all bets are off.

Spear

MoodeRator wrote: »

Sorry if it is already here somewhere, BUt has anyone seen the text message flying around the UK? naming "Jon Venables" and exactly why why he is back inside?

You mean the one that names the wrong guy?

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:378d3257-3ea1-4744-b8fc-5ec63dca9413

MoodeRator

Spear wrote: »

You mean the one that names the wrong guy?

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:378d3257-3ea1-4744-b8fc-5ec63dca9413

:eek: am I glad I didnt say anymore than I did!!!!
Thanks Spear!

OutlawPete

the_dark_side wrote: »

not to stray off topic, but Galloway may have picked up some interesting punishment tips from his aquaintances in the Middle East

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlzqMRRyDaM&feature=PlayList&p=C795598F5928A762&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19

He's a strange fcuker anyway.

Wasn't he on Sadam's side on some issues.

MoodeRator

OutlawPete wrote: »

He's a strange fcuker anyway.

Wasn't he on Sadam's side on some issues.

he was just siding with Sadman on the basis of trying to win the ethnic majority vote in East London.

Moomoo1

OutlawPete wrote: »

He's a strange fcuker anyway.

Wasn't he on Sadam's side on some issues.

As he stated before the US Senate, Galloway met with Saddam exactly twice: the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld. Difference was, Galloway was there to talk about peace, and Rumsfeld was there to sell weapons.

Moomoo1

Ann22 wrote: »

Many feel pity for these boys, i'm probably pollitically incorrect for saying this, I know they weren't reared properly but many children in this country alone were reared in cruel orphanages and industrial schools, were beaten and tortured and they didn't all head out to torture and murder a sweet innocent little child. Even if you have no conscience or feeling for others, some things you fcuking well know not to do.

Read Andrew O'Hagan's piece on this. He suggests that it's only by chance that those two boys did this and many others did not. Cruelty to many many children is a way of life, and this pair are only different in that they went too far:http://www.lrb.co.uk/v15/n05/ohag01_.html

Moomoo1

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

The thing which bothers me about their release is that they could be having relationships and I just think how wrong it is for the person they get in a relationship with to be oblivious about their past.

If you believe the rumours (and there've been many), Thompson's gay partner knows who he is, but the mother of his child does not. Venables was in a relationship for a few years, decided to come clean as he proposed, got dumped for his efforts, and never really came to terms with that. There maybe have been a child involved there as well.

But then again, all of the above could be pure and total hogwash.

Moomoo1

iguana wrote: »

If he committed, and is convicted of, a crime with a maximum sentence then that is all he can serve. It doesn't matter who knows what about who he is and what he has done before.

that's incorrect. He can serve that sentence and then serve more for breaching his parole.

With the country's mood begin what it is and the election coming up, I can bet my house* that it won't be less than 15 years jail if he's found guilty. But it's also very possible he won't be found guilty and will walk free.

*I haven't got one, but it sounds nice to say that

phasers

^ What's the problem? He has a kid and social services are monitoring him.

goat2

phasers wrote: »

^ What's the problem? He has a kid and social services are monitoring him.

no problem, but he has to lie to the one person who depend on him, could you emagine the shock the mother of his child gets when she figure out who he is

4zn76tysfajdxp

Seems to me like they're just trying to drag out the recent re-emergence of this story in the public's mind. A notorious child killer has a kid? Immediately after his accomplice is arrested for allegedly downloading child porn? A story which cannot be verified or proven without risking his new identity? How convenient.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Derrick Gorgeous Shower wrote: »

Seems to me like they're just trying to drag out the recent re-emergence of this story in the public's mind. A notorious child killer has a kid? Immediately after his accomplice is arrested for allegedly downloading child porn? A story which cannot be verified or proven without risking his new identity? How convenient.

Indeed. He's also an ostrich farmer, an ice-cream man on Blackpool beach, the Pope and Chesterfield United's reserve keeper. Or maybe all four.

Biggins

Derrick Gorgeous Shower wrote: »

Seems to me like they're just trying to drag out the recent re-emergence of this story in the public's mind....

Indeed.
The closer we get to summer, the closer we get to what's known around the press community and writers as "The Silly Season".

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Indeed.

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed.

I concur.

*Inhales from pipe*

goat2

bonerm wrote: »

He'll be popular in prison too.

the three most gruesome murders that stick in my head over the past decade the soham girls by the school caretaker, the robert holohan murder and little jamie bulger, i think of them and their families, and it must be a nightmare for those people, how they are getting by, must be hell on them, every day until they leave this world

Moomoo1

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Indeed. He's also an ostrich farmer, an ice-cream man on Blackpool beach, the Pope and Chesterfield United's reserve keeper. Or maybe all four.

there was a rumour he was Michael Owen. As soon as JV hits the papers, Michael goes down with an injury

Moomoo1

goat2 wrote: »

the three most gruesome murders that stick in my head over the past decade the soham girls by the school caretaker, the robert holohan murder and little jamie bulger, i think of them and their families, and it must be a nightmare for those people, how they are getting by, must be hell on them, every day until they leave this world

past 20 years you meen. There was also Sarah Payne. And Dunblane.

But the one that disturbed me most was that of the Baker sisters in Cambridgeshire, two teenagers stabbed to death by their own mother.

Latchy

Ann22 wrote: »

Many feel pity for these boys, i'm probably pollitically incorrect for saying this, I know they weren't reared properly but many children in this country alone were reared in cruel orphanages and industrial schools, were beaten and tortured and they didn't all head out to torture and murder a sweet innocent little child.

By so called responsible adults

Even if you have no conscience or feeling for others, some things you fcuking well know not to do.

It's a pity the b'astards who beat ,tortured and abused the kids in the orphanages and industrial schools didn't understand that basic rule of humanity .

It's a tribute to any childen who went through that horror that they never had their spirt broken ,nor lost their own understanding of right and wrong , feelings for others .

Amalgam

Is there gender bias, with how the public react\hysteria? I always thought the likes of Mary Bell slipped by 'less noticed', as time moved on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

(apologies, Daily Mail..)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1110123/Child-killer-Mary-Bell-grandmother-51-But-I-left-grief-says-victims-mother.html

Moomoo1

With Bell I think the times were very different. Journalists acted with more restraint back then, and so she was able to have a relatively normal life. Even so, Daily Mail always brings her up with stories like 'Look Mary Bell is a mother/grandmother/greatgrandmother and her victims never had that chance'. And it's what, 40 years since the murders too place?

arybvtcw0eolkf

James Bulger's Killer, John Venables Charged Over Child Porn!.

From Sky News..

James Bulger's killer Jon Venables has been charged with downloading and distributing child pornography, it has been revealed.

easyeason3

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

James Bulger's Killer, John Venables Charged Over Child Porn!.

From Sky News..

Now theres a chap that has made the most of his second chance :rolleyes:

seamus

Not really a huge shock. I imagine his childhood was filled with plenty of domestic violence and sexual abuse, and those who are sexually abused as children will often go on to engage in similar crimses as adults.

Melion

Hopefully they release his picture and he gets what he deserves in prison this time.

I dont care about the PC brigade, people like him dont deserve anything but severe pain and a drawn out painful death.

Magenta

seamus wrote: »

Not really a huge shock. I imagine his childhood was filled with plenty of domestic violence and sexual abuse, and those who are sexually abused as children will often go on to engage in similar crimses as adults.

Jon Venables was abusing others while he was still a child himself.

Magenta

Melion wrote: »

Hopefully they release his picture and he gets what he deserves in prison this time.

I dont care about the PC brigade, people like him dont deserve anything but severe pain and a drawn out painful death.

He should be named and photos should be released. He has been protected for long enough.

karma_

the_dark_side wrote: »

not to stray off topic, but Galloway may have picked up some interesting punishment tips from his aquaintances in the Middle East

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlzqMRRyDaM&feature=PlayList&p=C795598F5928A762&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19

Did you even bother your arsé to listen to what Galloway had to say about the matter?

He basically argues against any form of capital punishment and is rebuking callers who thought it would be a good idea to hang two ten year old boys.

Other callers make interesting points about other cases such as confessions which take place long after original convictions to solve other crimes.

idiotic post to be fair.

Aids By Google

hmm the news report I heard said he was creating and distributing child porn.

For some reason I imagined him photoshopping together child porn pics.

Noreen1

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

James Bulger's Killer, John Venables Charged Over Child Porn!.

From Sky News..

Well, he had his chance, and he blew it! This time, I hope they lock him up for life. It's quite clear that he has not been rehabilitated - and questions need to be asked about the people/psychological theory who state that people have been "reformed" - and thus put other people at risk.

It seems clear to me that some people are so damaged by their experiences that they will never be rehabilitated - and therefore should not be free to destroy other lives at will.

The solution may or may not be life imprisonment - but if it's true that a large percentage of people who are abused go on to become abusers, then releasing these people back into the community only serves to maximise the problem for future generations...

An Alcatraz for child abusers springs to mind... complete with as many psychiatrists as they want/need. Actually, give them gainful employment, recreation - whatever - just keep them far, far away from kids.:mad:

It would probably also work out cheaper at the end of the day!

Noreen

mikemac

A sentence in jail probably isn't the solution here.

It could be a sentence in a mental institution where he can get the help he needs and this be given by the judge if he gets convicted again over this

Our man in Havana

Death by firing squad for him. He deserves no better.