Phone Taken in School

Lotsafish

Now this didn't happen to me but to a friend of mine but it raises the question of what I'd do in this situation:

The schools policy is that it is a 'Phone-Free Zone', and that if a student is found using a phone it is taken away from them and kept for a week - then its given back to them.

This rule applies from the time they enter the school until the time they leave, lunch breaks included!

I do agree with the no phone policy during classes and in between classes, but during lunch?!

So my question is: What right does the school have to take away a possession of a student. And can a parent storm down to the school and get it back?

JacksDad

Lotsafish wrote: »

The schools policy is that it is a 'Phone-Free Zone'

Its a no brainer IMHO. If the school has a phone-free policy then treat it as such.
If they've implemented a policy then then they have every right to confiscate the phone no matter what time of the school day.
Parents can storm anywhere they like - anyone can in fact - but if such a policy exists I wouldn't be wasting my time storming anywhere.

realmadrid

Their house their rules im afraid! what part of phone free zone does the student not understand. And whats with the parent storming anywhere?! Student shouldnt have had the phone and now he/she has to do with out. Maybe a week is a bit long but why is parent getting invoved in defending a students obvious breaking of a rule? Is parent going to do the same when student gets older? Let the student understand that for his/her actions there are consequences. Such is life!

Hagar

Ask in the Legal Discussion Forum. I don't know if any and every rule that school committees come up with is enforceable in law despite their good intentions. Private property rights are very strong in Ireland. The school may be overstepping their authority by not returning the phone when the student leaves the premises.

Khannie

I don't understand what the problem is. The kid broke the rules and is now paying the price. Are you their parent?

Hagar

Nobody on this thread is claiming to be the child's parent?
I wasn't aware we couldn't discuss topics in the abstract.

robinph

If a school is able to keep children behind for things like detention, then why not take the phone off them for a week as punishment for breaking the rules.

Mr. Presentable

Lotsafish wrote: »

I do agree with the no phone policy during classes and in between classes, but during lunch?!

Re this part of your post. You need to understand why phones are forbidden.

1 To prevent disruption due to use for texting etc in class

2 To prevent theft by other pupils

3 To prevent video bullying (happy slapping etc)

And for these reasons a phone is also inappropriate during lunch. Perhaps more so.

In response to your particular query, the school has a rulebook (ours does anyway) to which the parent and student must agree at the beginning of the year. I feel the phone should be returned at the end of the day, but only to a parent.

Khannie

69 wrote: »

Nobody on this thread is claiming to be the child's parent?

That's why I asked.

69 wrote: »

I wasn't aware we couldn't discuss topics in the abstract.

Take it easy there. I didn't say you couldn't. Nor can I see anywhere that I even implied it. Unless I'm actively moderating (rare) I'm just a contributor on here. If I am moderating then I'll be unambiguous.

cynder

After reading this thread i e-mailed the school we want are daughter to attend in 2 years time, to ask what there stance is on mobile phones as my daughter is diabetic she need a mobile with her so she can phone me at lunch to see how many insulin units she has to take.

Max Power1

no "user agreement" in the world allows for confiscation of private property and not returned when you leave the premises. I can understand if its taken till end of school day but beyond that is not legally enforceable.

ScouseMouse

If the rules of the school say no phones at all, then the parent is responsible. As long as the rules are publicly available, then how can anyone say its unfair?

If the parent allows the phone to go to school then they cannot complain when its confiscated.

Arrogant parent maybe ?

As for the diabetic child, these would be special circumstances that would need to be discussed with the principle. But why would the child need to know how much insulin to take at lunch and how would the parent know at lunch but not know a breakfast time ?

ScouseMouse

Max Power1 wrote: »

no "user agreement" in the world allows for confiscation of private property and not returned when you leave the premises. I can understand if its taken till end of school day but beyond that is not legally enforceable.

The same could be said for mobiles at work. A lot of places don't allow them, so whats the alternative? Suspension?

What would you prefer?

Lotsafish

Khannie wrote: »

I don't understand what the problem is. The kid broke the rules and is now paying the price. Are you their parent?

As I said in my post:

Now this didn't happen to me but to a friend of mine but it raises the question of what I'd do in this situation

grindelwald wrote: »

After reading this thread i e-mailed the school we want are daughter to attend in 2 years time, to ask what there stance is on mobile phones as my daughter is diabetic she need a mobile with her so she can phone me at lunch to see how many insulin units she has to take.

This would be my concern, if a child of mine has their phone on them in school then the reason would be if they needed to contact me for any reason, the school taking that phone away worries me.

And dont say that the school provides a telephone for those circumstances because back when I was in school when I tried to ring home, sick for instance, I was told to sit down and deal with it. Or, again as was the case for me, the teacher is mistreating the student.

If the school takes the phone and keeps it for a week, they are taking away that point of contact.


Really its the week thats catching me - if I go down to the school and ask for the phone back and the school say no, then they are denying it from ME - essentially withholding MY property.

Crash

superscouse wrote: »

As for the diabetic child, these would be special circumstances that would need to be discussed with the principle. But why would the child need to know how much insulin to take at lunch and how would the parent know at lunch but not know a breakfast time ?

I'm assuming you don't know much about Diabetes (don't mean that in a mean way btw)

the childs insulin would depend on blood sugar levels at lunch time, the lunch just eaten, as well as plans for the rest of the day (for instance, if PE is planned for the afternoon, then generally you would want sugar levels to run high to prevent becoming hypoglycemic from exercise) - there's are general rules, but its not hard and fast, and is can be affected by a multitude of things. You can't just plan your insulin intake at lunch based purely on what the lunch is.

Khannie

Max Power1 wrote: »

is not legally enforceable.

Neither is detention (which is effectively imprisonment). Who cares if it's legally enforceable or not? If you break the rules and you know the consequences for that then you should suck it up IMO.

Khannie

Lotsafish wrote: »

As I said in my post

Yeah, I missed that bit.

Lotsafish wrote: »

This would be my concern, if a child of mine has their phone on them in school then the reason would be if they needed to contact me for any reason, the school taking that phone away worries me.

Really? Would you have a 4 year old with a phone? (genuine question) Wouldn't have occurred to me to be honest. Schools are much quicker to phone a parent these days than they were when I was a kid.

As you say though, it's your property. You could walk down there and demand it back of course. I just think you'd be setting a very bad example by doing so (the example being that it's ok to break the rules because mum or dad will get your phone back).

Hagar

The OP clearly stated that they were not the parent.

Khannie wrote: »

Are you their parent?

That made me think you only wanted comments from the parents. The perils of interpreting the written word. :rolleyes: I assume mods are always mods, I find it safest that way.


I can't accept the "The kid broke the rules and is now paying the price." aatitude. If a rule is unjust should we be teaching our children to accept injustice? Or should we question the rule? No injustice for my kids thanks. Bowing down before false authority is was allowed the horrors happen in our school system in the past.

/edit I see the parent bit has been acknowledged while I was composing the post.

Khannie

69 wrote: »

That made me think you only wanted comments from the parents. The perils of interpreting the written word. :rolleyes: I assume mods are always mods, I find it safest that way.

Fair enough.

69 wrote: »

I can't accept the "The kid broke the rules and is now paying the price." attitude. If a rule is unjust should we be teaching our children to accept injustice? Or should we question the rule? No injustice for my kids thanks. Bowing down before false authority is was allowed the horrors happen in our school system in the past.

Agree 100%. If I have a problem with a rule I'd go to the school in advance of it being broken though and suggest that they implement a different punishment; Detention for example.

If I had a *really* big problem with a rule, I'd seriously consider moving my child to a different school.

ScouseMouse

Crash wrote: »

I'm assuming you don't know much about Diabetes (don't mean that in a mean way btw)

the childs insulin would depend on blood sugar levels at lunch time, the lunch just eaten, as well as plans for the rest of the day (for instance, if PE is planned for the afternoon, then generally you would want sugar levels to run high to prevent becoming hypoglycemic from exercise) - there's are general rules, but its not hard and fast, and is can be affected by a multitude of things. You can't just plan your insulin intake at lunch based purely on what the lunch is.

I know enough as I used to be an instructor of first aid.

If PE was planned that afternoon requireing a glucose boost, they still would know in the morning and extra sugar could be provided.

If the child is testing themselves and reporting back to the parent then thats one thing, but the question was unclear about that.

Mr. Presentable

On the diabetese question, the school has a phone, and calling parents is one of its primary functions.

rainbowtrout

nipplenuts wrote: »

Re this part of your post. You need to understand why phones are forbidden.

1 To prevent disruption due to use for texting etc in class

2 To prevent theft by other pupils

3 To prevent video bullying (happy slapping etc)

And for these reasons a phone is also inappropriate during lunch. Perhaps more so.

In response to your particular query, the school has a rulebook (ours does anyway) to which the parent and student must agree at the beginning of the year. I feel the phone should be returned at the end of the day, but only to a parent.

Phones are banned in the school I work in. If a student has a phone they have to leave it in their locker. Obviously this is hard to enforce if they have it in their pocket or bag.

Phones are a disruption in class, as the above post says they are used for bullying, they have been used to film teachers in my school and put videos on the internet, there was an incidence of a lad trying to put his phone under girls skirts walking upstairs to take photos. It's about child protection.

grindelwald wrote: »

After reading this thread i e-mailed the school we want are daughter to attend in 2 years time, to ask what there stance is on mobile phones as my daughter is diabetic she need a mobile with her so she can phone me at lunch to see how many insulin units she has to take.

She doesn't need a mobile phone, she can phone from the office in the school. For students in your daughters situation, staff are made aware of her situation when she starts school (they are in my school anyway) and the fact that she would need that kind of access. Her phone could also be left in the school office where she could make her call at lunch. There would be no need for her to have it in class.

Lotsafish wrote: »

As I said in my post:





This would be my concern, if a child of mine has their phone on them in school then the reason would be if they needed to contact me for any reason, the school taking that phone away worries me.

And dont say that the school provides a telephone for those circumstances because back when I was in school when I tried to ring home, sick for instance, I was told to sit down and deal with it. Or, again as was the case for me, the teacher is mistreating the student.

If the school takes the phone and keeps it for a week, they are taking away that point of contact.


Really its the week thats catching me - if I go down to the school and ask for the phone back and the school say no, then they are denying it from ME - essentially withholding MY property.

Most schools have a policy that parents and students sign up to when they enter the school. They also have sanctions in that policy if rules are broken. If you sign the policy you are agreeing to those rules and sanctions. Again, your child can phone from the office if needs be, and you can also contact the school and the message can be passed on.

69 wrote: »

I can't accept the "The kid broke the rules and is now paying the price." aatitude. If a rule is unjust should we be teaching our children to accept injustice? Or should we question the rule? No injustice for my kids thanks. Bowing down before false authority is was allowed the horrors happen in our school system in the past.

How do you see the rule as injust, should there be no rules at all in the school, send the child in, let him/her go wild because it would be injust to instill a little discipline? Do you think it would be just to have your child texting and accepting calls in class while the rest of the class was trying to work just because you don't want to 'bow down to false authority'? If you're not happy with the phone policy or any other policy in a school send your child elsewhere. We've had the phone policy in my school for many years and none of the parents complain. They are more concerned with their child being bullied in school through the use of phones

beth-lou

The kid was fully aware of the policy and still used the phone.
The kid knew the consquences if they got caught, so let them deal with them.
No phone for a week. The kid has no one to blame but themselves.

I agree with the no phone rule, for all of the obvious reasons stated already.

What does the parent hope to achieve by going down to the school to get the phone back? The only thing that you will teach the child is that they can do what they want, as Mam or Dad will back them up and challenge the teacher. Even over an established rule.

The best thing that parent can do is tell the kid to suck it up, they shouldn't have used the phone in school, and hopefully the kid will learn boundries.

Too many parents these days are letting their kids away with this kind of crap and think their kids can do no wrong.

If the school policy is a week, then a week it is.
The kid I assume was fully aware of that when they pulled out the phone.
Tell your friend to back the school up here.
The kid broke the rules.

seamus

Khannie wrote: »

Neither is detention (which is effectively imprisonment). Who cares if it's legally enforceable or not? If you break the rules and you know the consequences for that then you should suck it up IMO.

For all intents and purposes, these are agreements between the parent and the school, things which you agree to do in order to remain in the school.

Detention isn't imprisonment - there's nothing to stop the child from packing up and walking out of the building.

However, the general stance is that if the child or the parent doesn't wish to stick to the terms of the agreement, then they've terminated their child's place in that school.

If the agreement states that you don't bring a phone into school or surrender it for a week, then you abide by that agreement or you leave.

Agreements however must be reasonable and legal - you couldn't insist that children present themselves for baody cavity searches each morning or that phones will be crushed.

I think schools need to take a hard line on this kind of thing. If a parent marches down to the school demanding that the child's phone is returned to them, then you tell them you can return the phone but you'll have to expel the child because the agreement has been terminated. It's become an increasing pox in schools where parents refuse to back up the school's authority and the child turns into a scumbag because he knows his parents will back him to the hilt.

The key here is that everything is voluntary - the child presents themself to detention and they're not under any physical restraint to stay there. Likewise the child surrenders the mobile phone of their own free will, it isn't taken from them forcefully.

Oryx

Lotsafish wrote: »

This would be my concern, if a child of mine has their phone on them in school then the reason would be if they needed to contact me for any reason, the school taking that phone away worries me.

Mobile phones are only commonplace in the last 15 years. We all survived school without them. If a child needs you, you will be contacted. God be with the days when we didnt even have a house phone, and I still survived, uncontactable, at school.

Kids do not need mobile phones, at all. They have them as a toy, a convenience, and reassurance to parents. But kids can safely last a day in school without one, and I would back any school with rules as outlined above, where phones are banned and confiscated if the rule is broken.

beth-lou

Oryx wrote: »

Mobile phones are only commonplace in the last 15 years. We all survived school without them. If a child needs you, you will be contacted. God be with the days when we didnt even have a house phone, and I still survived, uncontactable, at school.

Kids do not need mobile phones, at all. They have them as a toy, a convenience, and reassurance to parents. But kids can safely last a day in school without one, and I would back any school with rules as outlined above, where phones are banned and confiscated if the rule is broken.

My thoughts exactly.

Kimono-Girl

Lotsafish wrote: »

So my question is: What right does the school have to take away a possession of a student. And can a parent storm down to the school and get it back?

If your child and/or you signed a contract with the school (which everyone does at the start of the year)saying you agree to abide by their policys then yes the school has a right to enforce the policy as stated and agreed to.

and a parent cannot just storm down to the school and get it back, as said parent would also have agreed to allow the school possession of the phone for a week if the student is caught with it, why would the parent get angry over the school doing what the parent agreed it could??

LegacyUser

Is this a secondary or primary school?
if it's a secondary, then why is a child with diabetes ringing home every lunchtime to find out how many insulin units to take? Surely that should be a stage of their lives where they start learning how to figure it out for themselves.
If it's a primary, surely the parent should make it their business to sort out a system with the teacher whereby they know what activity the child will be doing before/after lunch, and they provide their child with an appropriate packed lunch. Most teachers will be good enough to keep an eye on a child with an illness like that anyway.
I got through secondary school in the late 90's with no phone. I came home sick from school a few times. My mother is a teacher and wasn't contactable during the day whether I had a phone or not, and my dad couldn't leave his job either. I managed.
I understand the parent's concern over the diabetes, but you can't have one rule for one person and a different one for everyone else, particularly among kids. The school is not some kind of prison, if there's anything wrong with the child, they'll do their utmost to contact someone, particularly if it's known the child has diabetes. I think here the onus is on the parent to sort out a system with the school, not go storming anywhere.And if the child is that bit older, I'd be questioning whether they ring home every time they eat anywhere to establish the quantity of insulin units, and whether the parent should re-think that system.

cynder

Hi to all,

My 10 year old is in 4th class and in 2nd class we were asked by the then principle to provide a mobile phone for the sna to use to phone us (the parents) to see how many units of insulin to take. we had to provide the call credit aswell At the christmas holidays they lost the charger and wanted us to get them a new phone, they would not call from the office. This year we have a new principle who allows the sna to use the office phone. the sna will be gone next term.

My daughter will be 12 going too secondry to young for her to decide how many units she should take. Too many could result in a coma. Her bloods fluctuate and are never the same even if she eats same food. she could go from needing 5 units one week to 10 units the next.

(There are way to many things for her to consider blood sugar reading, carbs, exersise, sun (when its sunny her bloods tend to be high), hormones (growth hormone prevents the insulin from being absorbed ), stress (exams), sickness...... and many more. )

Any ways i got a quick response from the principle this is what he wrote:

Good that you are thinking well in advance.
All health situtions are carefully monitored in xxxxxx.However we cannot administer any injections to pupils.
We would make her teachers aware of the situation as well.
If contact to a parent is necessary at any time it would go through the Deputy principal or Principals office.
Hope this answers your questions.


Regards


xxxxxx

So i take it she wont be able to use her phone but at least she can ring every day on the office phone.



* My daughter does test and inject herself, but it us who decide what insulin she gets as we dont trust her to judge it her self maybe when she reaches 14-15* She went through a faze where she added 2 units to whatever insulin we told her to take so she would have a hypo and have something sweet..... of course we sussed it but thats kids and your cant trust them.

Hagar

rainbowtrout wrote: »

How do you see the rule as injust, should there be no rules at all in the school, send the child in, let him/her go wild because it would be injust to instill a little discipline? Do you think it would be just to have your child texting and accepting calls in class while the rest of the class was trying to work just because you don't want to 'bow down to false authority'?

Where exactly did I say or imply any of that behaviour was acceptable. Stop making stuff up. I'm just dicussing the overstepping of authority by the school in seizing a phone for a week. By all means deprive the child of the phone during school hours but you have no right to deprive him of access to his phone outside the school environs. I gave my youngest son a mobile phone because I and my wife want to be able to contact him when he is outside the home. We live in unsafe times and a child having a mobile phone can be a very valuable asset in keeping him safe.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If you're not happy with the phone policy or any other policy in a school send your child elsewhere.

Obey or GTFO? Nice, I like it, it has a catchy ring to it.

Lotsafish

Oryx wrote: »

Mobile phones are only commonplace in the last 15 years. We all survived school without them. If a child needs you, you will be contacted.

Thats fine if your dealing with ideal circumstances, but if its the teacher who is abusing their power, treating the students wrongly, etc, then what is the student to do? Ask the teacher if they can ring home?!

Or as I mentioned, the child complains about feeling ill and the teacher tells them to sit down and be quiet.

I've been in this situation - as you pointed out, I didn't have a mobile phone - but I wish to god I did!

And please dont say that teachers these days dont abuse their power or their students for that matter, it happens.