Need Advice of all Sorts

help required

Can people please have a read of this and offer me some advice on what to please. Im in full time work but want to go back home to farm, but there are complications.

It’s a dairy farm on 300+ acres with all the facilities, slatted houses, cubicles, calving boxes & pins, 2 JD tractors, loads of winterage for feeding outside etc. There are 2 herd numbers with the mother operating a suckler herd on a smaller basis 20 cows at any one time.

The problem is, this farm has gone from being one of the top farms around 15 years ago when me grand father was around to been nearly ran into the ground at this stage.

Instead of milking 80-90 cows he is down at 40 at this stage, 15 yearling heifers and a handful of other animals around the place (where before there was 200 animals around the place). Sheds are now in an awful condition, with galvanising needing replacement where it has been blown away and dorrs have collapsed , slats full to the brim with slurry, electric scrapers no longer working, as he now feeds cattle out on winterage through out the winter and sheds haven’t been c leaned in years and require repair.

As it is a fairly big farm when the grandfather died 8 years ago there was only the father left around the place and we were in college etc things have gone down hill rapidly. Between not being able to get all of what needed to be done and debts going through the roof and the increase in paper work which he just doesn’t do he seems to have become disillusioned with farming as a whole and as a result just has no enthusiasm for it any more and doesn’t have a rex to put into the farm anymore and bills are mounting by the day.

The brother is finished college for the last year and has been working full time at home (hes 21), it has got to the stage now where he doesn’t want to work there as the father doesn’t take any notice to his suggestions of cleaning the place up trying to get back to where it used to be.

At the moment I don’t see a way of getting the place back up and running to a well functioning farm that you could be proud of with out pumping money into it. The debt has risen to where he cannot afford to do anything with the place and he is taking shortcuts with everything. Basically he is not farming with any degree of a plan or anything and has just become increasingly disillusioned. He still works 7-7.30 every sigle day but hes not doing what needs to be done like investing in cattle and refurbishing the place or tidying up.

I was wondering what myself and the brother can do to get this place up and running again?

Is there any grants at all going at the moment for anything that would help us build it up?

Obviously it is still his farm but can we set up a partnership and avail of grants that way?

I would be very grateful if anybody could help me out, I worked on the farm till I was 18 and went to college and have since worked full time , but things have changed drastically since then and im 26 now so I do not know anything about SFP and REPS etc and qualifying for it. But I do know that something needs to be done before its completely ran into the ground and the debts are so bad that the banks come and take there pound of flesh!

All suggestions welcome and I will answer any questions ye may have…

whelan1

very hard to advise on some one elses situation , maybe try and see what your fathers plans are as at the end of the day he has to agree to your plans

irishh_bob

help required wrote: »

Can people please have a read of this and offer me some advice on what to please. Im in full time work but want to go back home to farm, but there are complications.

It’s a dairy farm on 300+ acres with all the facilities, slatted houses, cubicles, calving boxes & pins, 2 JD tractors, loads of winterage for feeding outside etc. There are 2 herd numbers with the mother operating a suckler herd on a smaller basis 20 cows at any one time.

The problem is, this farm has gone from being one of the top farms around 15 years ago when me grand father was around to been nearly ran into the ground at this stage.

Instead of milking 80-90 cows he is down at 40 at this stage, 15 yearling heifers and a handful of other animals around the place (where before there was 200 animals around the place). Sheds are now in an awful
condition, with galvanising needing replacement where it has been blown away and dorrs have collapsed , slats full to the brim with slurry, electric scrapers no longer working, as he now feeds cattle out on winterage through out the winter and sheds haven’t been c leaned in years and require repair.

As it is a fairly big farm when the grandfather died 8 years ago there was only the father left around the place and we were in college etc things have gone down hill rapidly. Between not being able to get all of what needed to be done and debts going through the roof and the increase in paper work which he just doesn’t do he seems to have become disillusioned with farming as a whole and as a result just has no enthusiasm for it any more and doesn’t have a rex to put into the farm anymore and bills are mounting by the day.

The brother is finished college for the last year and has been working full time at home (hes 21), it has got to the stage now where he doesn’t want to work there as the father doesn’t take any notice to his suggestions of cleaning the place up trying to get back to where it used to be.

At the moment I don’t see a way of getting the place back up and running to a well functioning farm that you could be proud of with out pumping money into it. The debt has risen to where he cannot afford to do anything with the place and he is taking shortcuts with everything. Basically he is not farming with any degree of a plan or anything and has just become increasingly disillusioned. He still works 7-7.30 every sigle day but hes not doing what needs to be done like investing in cattle and refurbishing the place or tidying up.

I was wondering what myself and the brother can do to get this place up and running again?

Is there any grants at all going at the moment for anything that would help us build it up?

Obviously it is still his farm but can we set up a partnership and avail of grants that way?

I would be very grateful if anybody could help me out, I worked on the farm till I was 18 and went to college and have since worked full time , but things have changed drastically since then and im 26 now so I do not know anything about SFP and REPS etc and qualifying for it. But I do know that something needs to be done before its completely ran into the ground and the debts are so bad that the banks come and take there pound of flesh!

All suggestions welcome and I will answer any questions ye may have…

sell 100 acres so as to clear off existing debt and reinvest remainder in new set up , simplistic but perhaps the only sure fire way to make things work , you have a massive amount of land and are therefore in a much better possition than the majority of farmers

help required

bob whelan thanks for replies.

Ya selling a section would be an option definately if things are very bad. I dont know how much the debt is as i know he wont tell me will just get all thick about it.

Are there any grants for young farmers starting out at the moment or are they all gone...

Im assuming i wouldnt qualify until iv the green cert complete which i dont start until sept....

I think we need to start getting the cows back up to numbers of before and go from there. What is the cheapest way of doing this, buy young heifer calves or go for older in calf?

How do partnerships work... are they for milk only?

As far as i know he didnt qualify for REPS because the place was a mess, slurry etc Is there any way of getting back into REPS in the near future?

I would like to get an idea of everything before i tackle him on the whole lot, so that i can put a positive spin on it for him, cuz as i say he working around the clock for zero at the moment when the potential is there to make it a big set up especially now that the brother and myself are around for him now.

caseih

renting out 100 r so acres for a year r 2 might be an option,, depending what part of the country ur in,,?? ground type,,?? maybe suit tillage,,, it wuould generate a bit more income......

whelan1

land prices are very bad at the minute , what would the chances be of selling a site or two ?

help required

wouldn be tillage land really, south galway... there are bits of everything in it, good bad land,rock, bog etc.

possibly renting out part of it would be an option. it would bring some money in...

Indubitable

If the slats are literally "full to the brim" like you stated then you would want to do something to get rid of it fast. When it gets to that stage, Slats can be lifted by the slurry and it will sink into the tank which is quite a big mess and extremely dangerous to any animals or people around the farm. i have seen it once or twice. If your cattle are outwintered and that slurry has been in the tank for a while you are going to have hard time agitating that tank.

It seems to me from what i have read is that the father's poor management would be to blame for the running down of the farm. Maybe you should sit down with him and try work out a plan for the next 12 months, budgets, tasks etc.

whelan1

maybe find out what the finances are like and go to the bank see what they say and talk to a few other banks too , to see what they are offering

dar31

your stuck in a right one by the sounds of it.
from the sounds of it you want to restore the farm to its former glory.
would say that the low cost/ input route to get the farm up and running again it will need to pay three wages/debts and cost of "restoration"
should easily be able to run 150+ cows on the land with little effort and increase from there as the land/yourselves become more productive
there is little or know grands
reps is gone
partnerships do work well, but those involved need the same ambition and know what the goals are

at the end of the day nothing is going to work unless your father is on side
the full financial situation of the farm needs to be known and a plan put forward based on all the facts
you and your brother need to find some way/ aspect of the whole idea of restoring the farm to appeal to your father, a hook for him to bit on

JohnBoy

if he wants change then you can make it happen, but only if he wants it.

I'd lease out a hundred or maybe even a hundred and fifty acres for five years. That will give you a good stream of constant money coming in to invest directly back into the farm.

get your slurry out of those tanks and just start cleaning up.

It looks like a huge job when you take on a kip of a farm yard, but break it down and do a building a year or something. consider getting the whole lot powerwashed and painted, regardless of condition. it'll preserve what you've got and you wont be facing out into quite as grim a site to try and build things back up.

I dont know how lads face out into filthy farmyards, a little bit of spit and polish pays massive psycological dividends I reckon.

Ideally you want at the end of your five years to have your facilities sorted and your herd back up to the level where you really need that land back, then grow your stock levels again.


Sadly there's feck all free money available at the moment

help required

ya just spent the last while reading up on partnerships, seems like the best option to go, with the 2 herd numbers.

ya i need to check them slats so straight away and your dead right it is going to take some doing to get them agitated. There is an uncovered pit aswel on the farm, is there regs against them nowadays!

iv no doubt that he would be interested in doing something, he knows himself that its going nowhere at the moment, nut the debt that is there at the moment i dont know it might be as much as i think or it might be more but its probably going to be the biggest stumbling block!

would it pay 3 people to milk 150+ cows.... and what is the quickest way of getting to the 150 cow mark starting from a base of 40..

Would prob have to increase the quota aswel, how does that work?

whelan1

i have 150 cows and i find it hard to get a living out of it at the moment :rolleyes: 3 wages would be very difficult

ronaldoshaky

help required wrote: »

Can people please have a read of this and offer me some advice on what to please. Im in full time work but want to go back home to farm, but there are complications.

It’s a dairy farm on 300+ acres with all the facilities, slatted houses, cubicles, calving boxes & pins, 2 JD tractors, loads of winterage for feeding outside etc. There are 2 herd numbers with the mother operating a suckler herd on a smaller basis 20 cows at any one time.

The problem is, this farm has gone from being one of the top farms around 15 years ago when me grand father was around to been nearly ran into the ground at this stage.

Instead of milking 80-90 cows he is down at 40 at this stage, 15 yearling heifers and a handful of other animals around the place (where before there was 200 animals around the place). Sheds are now in an awful condition, with galvanising needing replacement where it has been blown away and dorrs have collapsed , slats full to the brim with slurry, electric scrapers no longer working, as he now feeds cattle out on winterage through out the winter and sheds haven’t been c leaned in years and require repair.

As it is a fairly big farm when the grandfather died 8 years ago there was only the father left around the place and we were in college etc things have gone down hill rapidly. Between not being able to get all of what needed to be done and debts going through the roof and the increase in paper work which he just doesn’t do he seems to have become disillusioned with farming as a whole and as a result just has no enthusiasm for it any more and doesn’t have a rex to put into the farm anymore and bills are mounting by the day.

The brother is finished college for the last year and has been working full time at home (hes 21), it has got to the stage now where he doesn’t want to work there as the father doesn’t take any notice to his suggestions of cleaning the place up trying to get back to where it used to be.

At the moment I don’t see a way of getting the place back up and running to a well functioning farm that you could be proud of with out pumping money into it. The debt has risen to where he cannot afford to do anything with the place and he is taking shortcuts with everything. Basically he is not farming with any degree of a plan or anything and has just become increasingly disillusioned. He still works 7-7.30 every sigle day but hes not doing what needs to be done like investing in cattle and refurbishing the place or tidying up.

I was wondering what myself and the brother can do to get this place up and running again?

Is there any grants at all going at the moment for anything that would help us build it up?

Obviously it is still his farm but can we set up a partnership and avail of grants that way?

I would be very grateful if anybody could help me out, I worked on the farm till I was 18 and went to college and have since worked full time , but things have changed drastically since then and im 26 now so I do not know anything about SFP and REPS etc and qualifying for it. But I do know that something needs to be done before its completely ran into the ground and the debts are so bad that the banks come and take there pound of flesh!

All suggestions welcome and I will answer any questions ye may have…

Throw yourself into it, and maybe leading by your example, your father will get a new lease of life for it. You have 300 acres. You are flying. We have 60 acres in our place. If I had 300 acres, I would go into farming.

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

land prices are very bad at the minute , what would the chances be of selling a site or two ?

land prices are very good at the moment , they are higher than they were in the year 2000 and the economy ( faming included ) is in much worse shape , land has another 30% to drop IMO in the next few years

Indubitable

150 cows won't pay 3 wages. You could search for part-time jobs but you would be very lucky to get one or you can be a baling contractor or work with other mahinery such as a digger to supplement your income until the farm is working at optimum effiency

PaddyBloggit

You're wasting your time trying to do anything if your father is the owner and he isn't inclined to doing anything about the situation.

You've even said "I dont know how much the debt is as i know he wont tell me will just get all thick about it."

That's your answer before you start ..... unless you can get your mother to influence him.

Have a family meeting, propose helping sorting the debt etc. If he agrees, draw up an agreement, if he doesn't, walk away and forget about it as you'll be able to do nothing about it.

vanderbadger

PaddyBloggit wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to do anything if your father is the owner and he isn't inclined to doing anything about the situation.

You've even said "I dont know how much the debt is as i know he wont tell me will just get all thick about it."

That's your answer before you start ..... unless you can get your mother to influence him.

Have a family meeting, propose helping sorting the debt etc. If he agrees, draw up an agreement, if he doesn't, walk away and forget about it as you'll be able to do nothing about it.

best advice yet

adne

PaddyBloggit wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to do anything if your father is the owner and he isn't inclined to doing anything about the situation.

You've even said "I dont know how much the debt is as i know he wont tell me will just get all thick about it."

That's your answer before you start ..... unless you can get your mother to influence him.

Have a family meeting, propose helping sorting the debt etc. If he agrees, draw up an agreement, if he doesn't, walk away and forget about it as you'll be able to do nothing about it.

Dead right, no point you saying you will do A, B and C if your father owns the farm and you dont know where you stand....

First things first, agree the plan of approach with your father..... I'd suggest get your father on side, get yourself a permanent job and pump money from this into the farm i.e. outsource some of the work........ Once the farm is in better shape consider leaving your permanent job.....

pakalasa

How do you know your father is in debt? If it's one thing the older generation was, it was smart when it came to money. He may just have cut back on cow numbers due to the high cost of fertiliser over the last few years. The slatted tanks may be full due to the terrible weather we got over the last 3 years. As for an untidy yard, I get it the whole time from older relatives, funny I only ever see them on a fine sunny day :rolleyes:. Bugs the hell out of me that. They never seem to be around at 4 in the morning when there is a cow calving.

The point I'm making is that you are really on the outside looking in, judging things by appearance. If he managed to put two of you through college then he can't be doing a bad job at all. You did say he was putting in 12 hour days. So credit where credit is due.

You have to be realistic aswell, 40 cows won't support 3 wages, simple as that. One of you will have to take over the farm, it won't support two. Maybe that's the decision your father doesn't want to make.

wiggy123

i'd get tanks emptied..straight away
and start to clean the yeard up--on your own back,,let him see--u's are lending a hand..like want the farm to survive, progress/grow!
mayb as said before-rent some of the land out!say half of it,would take in money for the farm...
also maybe get ur dad to talk..maybe he's holding it all back from the family--the debt(doesn't want to worry you's)
or else-like most men(farmers(he likes to keep his affairs private..
I would decide then--are you's go to,dairy or mix! as doing both never works in my opinion..
maybe merge the 2 herdnumbers--or else! use both-transfer to either of you's..
Capital(and alot of it-would be wanted to upgrade the farm,parlour etc.)would going down the dairy calf rearing route work for ya's?sell incalf heifers--form what i see+hear there making big money again this year!

djmc

I think the fastest way to build up a herd is if you can buy heifer calves and rear them , theres a dvd on sale through the farmers journels shop website
called cash cows that has a very good system or rearing calves and running a dairy farm well worth a look at.
You will need to get houseing fixed up for next winter and silage ground sorted out.

Indubitable

pakalasa wrote: »

They never seem to be around at 4 in the morning when there is a cow calving.

Thats odd, My relatives always just happen to drop into my shed at 3-5 in the morning

johngalway

I can offer much advice, save for don't sell any of the land. They're not making any more of it. The way farming is going, bigger is better, so keep the land. by all means, rent out if you need to but once it's gone, it's gone.

I prefer the idea above about putting work money into the farm, and doing as much as you can yourself in your free time to help your Dad out. Get a start on the urgent jobs like emptying the tank.

journey of 1,000 miles and that kinda thing.

John_F

If you want to generate fast cash maybe rent a few acres, some farmer must be crying out for maps (even if the land is poor) with the nitrates directive up there, although this may not go down well with the old lad. People will more than likely be short silage this year so provided ye will have enough ye could sell some (id be slow to do that after this winter) do you or your brother have a farming qualification as this would aid in transfer of the land (stamp duty)

there was a young farmers installation aid and a early retirement scheme in place up to 2007 or 2009 but this was cut, its a pity as it gave fellas a good incentive to hand over the reins. what ever you do allow your father to have a say in the farming, that way he will feel his opinion is valued, I know the feeling of being in the yard and a father and son not agreeing on something like cutting silage or not, but id say for the first few years listen & give your opinion, help out on the farm as much as possible and do the urgent jobs first as well as what he wants to do, totally agree with pakalasa on the older generation thing, they always have money under some mattress!

johngalway

Perhaps there's an alternative enterprise you could along side the working farm? I know there's a list of them on the Teagasc website somewhere. It could bring in some extra income and be of some use to you.

haybob

I can relate to dealing with a farm in a dilapidated state, the uncle was basically a single man who lost interest and the physical ability to operate the farm to any sort of standard at all, where as my dad is the opposite, he'd still give out if I left a screwdriver out on the table after using it. To give ye an idea of how bad it was one of the tanks was almost solid.

This is a bit of a cliché but start at the start, tidying up will cost nothing only your time, identify key repairs and jobs I literally made a list, you will be surprised at what you can do yourself a bit of painting etc. I'm assuming ye have the machinery to spread your own slurry so you could do it bit by bit, wash out the sheds as one poster here said if ye show an interest it could give your dad a new lease of life.

I was surprised what I turned into dry money, old scrap etc and I sold a few antique machines but times are different now, the way I see it you have two option one is to spend for a quick fix and the other is a slowly slowly fix where you won't have to make the capital outlay altogether and maybe not as much.

Good luck to the lot of ye I hope it goes well, it's great to see lads with an interest and a bit of pride in their farm

help required wrote: »

Can people please have a read of this and offer me some advice on what to please. Im in full time work but want to go back home to farm, but there are complications.

It’s a dairy farm on 300+ acres with all the facilities, slatted houses, cubicles, calving boxes & pins, 2 JD tractors, loads of winterage for feeding outside etc. There are 2 herd numbers with the mother operating a suckler herd on a smaller basis 20 cows at any one time.

The problem is, this farm has gone from being one of the top farms around 15 years ago when me grand father was around to been nearly ran into the ground at this stage.

Instead of milking 80-90 cows he is down at 40 at this stage, 15 yearling heifers and a handful of other animals around the place (where before there was 200 animals around the place). Sheds are now in an awful condition, with galvanising needing replacement where it has been blown away and dorrs have collapsed , slats full to the brim with slurry, electric scrapers no longer working, as he now feeds cattle out on winterage through out the winter and sheds haven’t been c leaned in years and require repair.

As it is a fairly big farm when the grandfather died 8 years ago there was only the father left around the place and we were in college etc things have gone down hill rapidly. Between not being able to get all of what needed to be done and debts going through the roof and the increase in paper work which he just doesn’t do he seems to have become disillusioned with farming as a whole and as a result just has no enthusiasm for it any more and doesn’t have a rex to put into the farm anymore and bills are mounting by the day.

The brother is finished college for the last year and has been working full time at home (hes 21), it has got to the stage now where he doesn’t want to work there as the father doesn’t take any notice to his suggestions of cleaning the place up trying to get back to where it used to be.

At the moment I don’t see a way of getting the place back up and running to a well functioning farm that you could be proud of with out pumping money into it. The debt has risen to where he cannot afford to do anything with the place and he is taking shortcuts with everything. Basically he is not farming with any degree of a plan or anything and has just become increasingly disillusioned. He still works 7-7.30 every sigle day but hes not doing what needs to be done like investing in cattle and refurbishing the place or tidying up.

I was wondering what myself and the brother can do to get this place up and running again?

Is there any grants at all going at the moment for anything that would help us build it up?

Obviously it is still his farm but can we set up a partnership and avail of grants that way?

I would be very grateful if anybody could help me out, I worked on the farm till I was 18 and went to college and have since worked full time , but things have changed drastically since then and im 26 now so I do not know anything about SFP and REPS etc and qualifying for it. But I do know that something needs to be done before its completely ran into the ground and the debts are so bad that the banks come and take there pound of flesh!

All suggestions welcome and I will answer any questions ye may have…

biblio

haybob wrote: »

I can relate to dealing with a farm in a dilapidated state, the uncle was basically a single man who lost interest and the physical ability to operate the farm to any sort of standard at all, where as my dad is the opposite, he'd still give out if I left a screwdriver out on the table after using it. To give ye an idea of how bad it was one of the tanks was almost solid.

This is a bit of a cliché but start at the start, tidying up will cost nothing only your time, identify key repairs and jobs I literally made a list, you will be surprised at what you can do yourself a bit of painting etc. I'm assuming ye have the machinery to spread your own slurry so you could do it bit by bit, wash out the sheds as one poster here said if ye show an interest it could give your dad a new lease of life.

I was surprised what I turned into dry money, old scrap etc and I sold a few antique machines but times are different now, the way I see it you have two option one is to spend for a quick fix and the other is a slowly slowly fix where you won't have to make the capital outlay altogether and maybe not as much.

Good luck to the lot of ye I hope it goes well, it's great to see lads with an interest and a bit of pride in their farm

I could have written that post, found myself in EXACTLY the same situation a few years back. The place was run down and in need of a serious hand. Gradually we got things looking and working better, cleaned out sheds, replaced galvanised sheeting that was damaged and hanging off, sold off piles of ancient scrap, rented out an outfarm to a neighbour till we got the home farm sorted out.
Cut all the hedges, fenced the whole place, hung gates etc etc. Its still not perfect but its a lot better and much easier to work and manage the place.
One thing i would say is, dont try and get everything done straightaway you'll only burn yourself out and get pi**ed off. As my boss used to say "its like eating an elephant, one bite at a time".

As said above keep your dad involved and if tempers get frayed (which they probably will) take a step back, no point falling out about it