U-21s v Armenia

Stevecw

I got a text off a mate who is at the Ireland-Armenia u-21 qualifier in Tallaght.
We are 2-0 down at ht, and playing brutal seemingly.

This is another one to add to a long list of terrible performances by the 21s, since Don Givens has been in charge.

How can the FAI justify his position at this stage. He has had us at the bottom or at best 2nd bottom of every qualifying group since he became manager and yet he stays there every year. Can't be right surely.

Zonda999

Sounds appalling alright, England u21's down have it good either though, went down 2-1 at home to Greece earlier

Stevecw

2-1 down with 10 mins to go. Terrible stuff, this has to be the end of Givens surely.

Johner

Lost 2-1, Armenia had 10 men for the last 10 minutes.

Stevecw

This is just not on. 4-1 loss away to Armenia & now a 2-1 loss at home.

What more does Givens have to do, before he is sacked???? Or is he just there forever no matter what, as it seems to be????

deisedude

Bottom of a group of heavyweights including Armenia, Estonia and Georgia. Stan would have managed better than that

Peyton Manning

Zonda999 wrote: »

Sounds appalling alright, England u21's down have it good either though, went down 2-1 at home to Greece earlier

To be fair, the current Greek under 21 squad is very highly rated. That Kyriakos Papadopolous kid who scored against England tonight is supposedly one of the highest rated young centre backs in Europe at the moment, and they have another kid Sotiris Ninis who's only 19 and has been linked with a big money to United and Milan. Apparently there were scouts from Madrid, United, Arsenal and Milan at the game against Holland where he made one, score one and got man of the match. He actually scored the last time they played England too, and he scored on his senior debut for Greece. I actually think the Greek under 21's could be a good shout for the Euro u21 championship next year. They're currently top of their qualifying group that includes England and Portugal.

Stevecw

Small enough crowd at it, but serious boos and Given out chants at the game. Dead right, the guy has managed to make a talented bunch lose to Armenia 6-2 over 2 games. He is doing more bad than good to underage Irish sides. Get him out now. It's gone on far far too long.

Zonda999

Fair enough, i had'nt looked into it, if anything that only compounds how bad this u21 result is..

CHD

Im gona start a facebook group to oust him

CHD

There is already one http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=178956858654

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I'm aware more and more developing footballing countries get better as time passes but Don Givens should have been sacked yonks ago FFS!

Hammer Archer

3 points adrift at the bottom of their group apparently, the nearest team to them is Armenia ironically. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

grenache

Hammer Archer wrote: »

3 points adrift at the bottom of their group apparently, the nearest team to them is Armenia ironically. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

Its not really ironic though...:) its more unfortunate.

grenache

Given has to go. I said it two years ago when the French beat us and i said it again last year when i saw us go down 3-0 to Turkey at Turners Cross. How on earth does he still have a job? What has he ever actually done with them, other than win an odd meaningless friendly against a couple of the better teams? Disaster.

kryogen

its an absolute disgrace that that man has not been sacked

the FAI are a shambles as usual

its embarassing at this stage tbh

Jordonvito

in fairness who else is there, westwood, paddy kenny, joe murphy?

kryogen

Jordonvito wrote: »

in fairness who else is there, westwood, paddy kenny, joe murphy?

i would give anyone a go tbh

Brian Kerr want his old job back by any chance?

i honestly would love to see a young irish coach get a chance at this

Givens has had his day/he has had many many chances, he has failed spectaculary and his record of dealing with his players is not exactly fantastic either

doesnt matter who gets it, they cant be worse then him actually

Jordonvito

kryogen wrote: »

i would give anyone a go tbh

Brian Kerr want his old job back by any chance?

i honestly would love to see a young irish coach get a chance at this

Givens has had his day/he has had many many chances, he has failed spectaculary and his record of dealing with his players is not exactly fantastic either

doesnt matter who gets it, they cant be worse then him actually

oh you didnt get the joke

CantGetNoSleep

An absolute disgrace that he still has a job

civis_liberalis

Givens has been in the job 10 years now? Is that right?

What has he done in those years?

I was livid that he was given the senior squad after Mick McCarthy left in 2002, but I was disgusted that they let him near them again for the friendly against Brazil a few years ago.

Didn't he fall out with someone that time as well? I forget now tbh, but I'm fairly sure.

dubmick

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Didn't he fall out with someone that time as well? I forget now tbh, but I'm fairly sure.

Might have been Stokes?

MementoMori

See link to his record as U-21 manager belo.

Utter joke.
Been manager since 1998 apparently.
I don't think it's possible to argue that it's simply a case of there being no players there when you consider he has gotten 12 years at the helm, simply a case of him being utterly inept.
Wonder how much FAI have paid him over this period?
Total case of money for jam jobs for the boys imo.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63057529&postcount=20

MementoMori

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Didn't he fall out with someone that time as well? I forget now tbh, but I'm fairly sure.

Remember seeing an absolute laundry list of players Givens has apparently had issues with over the years.

I remember him accusing someone of having no respect for him, which I thought was hilarious at the time.

pickarooney

Start a campaign to get Des in as replacement? Any of the Boardeaux boys young enough to qualify?

SantryRed

All you have to do is look at how our u17s and u19s perform at tournaments, and then look at what Givens is doing to them in the u21s. To be beaten 6-2 on aggregate against Armenia is just ridiculous.

Nalz

dubmick wrote: »

Might have been Stokes?

and Steven Ireland, shock horror

The future is bright for the national team

secman

As Santry Red says, our record at all levels bar Under 21 stack up. The results over the last 12 years under Givens has been appaling. Heard his interview this morning on RTE radio 1, he more or less said that he is more interested in developing players for senior squad rather than results. Surely a winning habit, grafting, team work, which would have been part of under 14s to under 18's is part of player development. These guys are now professional footballers by the time he gets his hand on them, their clubs are primarily developng them, not him getting them for a few days, 2 to 3 times a year. The guy has the charm of a bear with a thorn in his arse !

Secman

Hard Worker

Stevecw wrote: »

Small enough crowd at it, but serious boos and Given out chants at the game. Dead right, the guy has managed to make a talented bunch lose to Armenia 6-2 over 2 games. He is doing more bad than good to underage Irish sides. Get him out now. It's gone on far far too long.

I was at the game and I didn't hear "serious boos and Given out chants". Plenty of people moaning alright, which is understandable.
Also, a crowd of 1710 is decent enough considering they are bottom of the table.

SantryRed

Under 19s

04.04.2007 at 19:00 Tournament Germany Rep of Ireland Under 19 1 - 1
05.04.2007 at 19:00 Tournament Portugal Rep of Ireland Under 19 1 - 0
07.04.2007 at 19:00 Tournament Ukraine Rep of Ireland Under 19 0 - 0
24.04.2007 at 16:30 Friendly Czech Rep Rep of Ireland Under 19 4 - 1
26.04.2007 at 17:00 Friendly Czech Rep Rep of Ireland Under 19 1 - 2
14.05.2007 at 19:00 European Qualifier Elite Stage Rep of Ireland Under 19 Bulgaria 3 - 0
16.05.2007 at 19:00 European Qualifier Elite Stage Rep of Ireland Under 19 Germany 0 - 1
19.05.2007 at 19:00 European Qualifier Elite Stage Rep of Ireland Under 19 Hungary 2 - 0
07.08.2007 at 19:30 Friendly Rep of Ireland Under 19 Chile 1 - 2
09.08.2007 at 19:30 Friendly Rep of Ireland Under 19 Chile 1 - 2
04.09.2007 at 19:30 Friendly Rep of Ireland Under 19 Portugal 0 - 1
06.09.2007 at 19:30 Friendly Rep of Ireland Under 19 Portugal 1 - 0
01.11.2007 at 15:00 European Qualifier Belarus Rep of Ireland Under 19 2 - 0
03.11.2007 at 15:00 European Qualifier Andorra Rep of Ireland Under 19 0 - 3
06.11.2007 at 15:00 European Qualifier Portugal Rep of Ireland Under 19 2 - 1

Under 21s

10.02.2009 at 19:45 Friendly Under 21 Germany 1 - 1
27.03.2009 at 19:45 Friendly Under 21 Spain 2 - 1
31.03.2009 at 19:45 European Qualifier Under 21 Turkey 0 - 3
09.09.2009 at 16:00 European Qualifier Estonia Under 21 1 - 1
09.10.2009 at 20:00 European Qualifier Under 21 Georgia 1 - 1
13.10.2009 at 19:45 European Qualifier Under 21 Switzerland 1 - 1
14.11.2009 at 11:00 European Qualifier Georgia Under 21 1 - 1
17.11.2009 at 15:00 European Qualifier Armenia Under 21 4 - 1
02.03.2010 at 19:30 European Qualifier Under 21 Armenia 1 - 2


That'd be roughly the same set of players... I just don't understand how Givens gets away with it. That win against Spain was because it was a second string Spanish side played on a bog of a pitch in the RSC. Granted there was more losses as under 19s but they were playing stronger opposition. Givens is completely inept and he should be gone by now.

OhNoYouDidn't

SantryRed wrote: »

All you have to do is look at how our u17s and u19s perform at tournaments, and then look at what Givens is doing to them in the u21s. To be beaten 6-2 on aggregate against Armenia is just ridiculous.

To be fair, at U-21's we will always see a dip because any 19 or 20 year old who is real quality will be involved in the senior squad, like McCarthy.

Having said that, Givens has had 12 years and they are still performing well below par. Its baffling that Pete Mahon wasn't given the job.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

secman wrote: »

As Santry Red says, our record at all levels bar Under 21 stack up. The results over the last 12 years under Givens has been appaling. Heard his interview this morning on RTE radio 1, he more or less said that he is more interested in developing players for senior squad rather than results. Surely a winning habit, grafting, team work, which would have been part of under 14s to under 18's is part of player development. These guys are now professional footballers by the time he gets his hand on them, their clubs are primarily developng them, not him getting them for a few days, 2 to 3 times a year. The guy has the charm of a bear with a thorn in his arse !

Secman

What a load of tripe he talks. If we qualify for the U21 tournaments, our best young players will be in the limelight, their current clubs might be watching and if they impress might give them a run in the first team or clubs higher up the food chain could have scouts present and might want to buy them hence would aid their development.

kmart6

Couldn't get over this result when I heard it on the radio this morning...are we actually that bad?!

Jordonvito

kmart6 wrote: »

Couldn't get over this result when I heard it on the radio this morning...are we actually that bad?!

yes:(

everdead.ie

Personnaly I'd love to see Paul hart brought in I know he's currently with qpr but I don't know how long he'll stay he doesn't seem to like being senior manager. Also love to see mcgrath and a couple of other x pros involved with them could do wonders I think givens should of been gone years ago tbh

thegen

everdead.ie wrote: »

Personnaly I'd love to see Paul hart brought in I know he's currently with qpr but I don't know how long he'll stay he doesn't seem to like being senior manager. Also love to see mcgrath and a couple of other x pros involved with them could do wonders I think givens should of been gone years ago tbh

Hart has just been appointed Crystal Palace manager. Sacked by QPR weeks ago. Looking for ex pros to come is more of the same. Givens is an ex-pro.

everdead.ie

thegen wrote: »

Hart has just been appointed Crystal Palace manager. Sacked by QPR weeks ago. Looking for ex pros to come is more of the same. Givens is an ex-pro.

Sorry palace manager slip of the tongue I knew that but I mean ex pros as coaches for player development not as manager in charge of tactics etc

OhNoYouDidn't

everdead.ie wrote: »

Personnaly I'd love to see Paul hart brought in I know he's currently with qpr but I don't know how long he'll stay he doesn't seem to like being senior manager. Also love to see mcgrath and a couple of other x pros involved with them could do wonders I think givens should of been gone years ago tbh

How did that work out last time he was employed to develop players? :rolleyes:

There are candidates already working in Ireland and indeed within the FAI who could do this part time job. The issue is why the FAI accept this stagnation of the U-21 setup.

Its a part time gig so would suit someone like Rico or Mahon.

applehunter

Beyond me how he still is in that position.

But I have been saying that for the last 5 years.

UnitedIrishman

applehunter wrote: »

Beyond me how he still is in that position.

But I have been saying that for the last 5 years.

Same as. He's like a manager from the stone age.

With the players he's had at his disposal, he still can't do anything. The likes of Scannell, Clifford, Sheridan, Coleman and Garvan are better than most in that group.

Oh and there's Keith Treacy who wasn't picked. Or Michael Spillane at Norwich who is playing regularly at CB.

At U21, you should be doing everything possible to get guys ready for senior. If they're taken up to the seniors, then fair enough - get another player ready.

Aidric

Could Tardelli not be put to some use with the U21's? I'd imagine Trappatoni must be concerned with the results so why not put Tardelli in there to groom them for the senior ranks. Could he combine both roles? Givens is nothing short of a joke at this stage.

SantryRed

Aidric wrote: »

Could Tardelli not be put to some use with the U21's? I'd imagine Trappatoni must be concerned with the results so why not put Tardelli in there to groom them for the senior ranks. Could he combine both roles? Givens is nothing short of a joke at this stage.

I seriously doubt Trappatoni cares. He's not here for the long term.

rovingrover

Givens took over as manager in February 2000 not 1998.

He has been a disaster.

MementoMori

Article in the Indo today.

Would love to see if the FAI or Givens respond to this, or whether they simply continue to keep their heads in the sand.

Givens does not justify the means
Sunday March 07 2010

Our U21 international team reached a new low on Wednesday night when beaten 2-1 by mighty Armenia in Tallaght.

This followed our 4-1 hammering by the same opposition in Yerevan back in November. It's not that Armenia have a particularly good bunch of U21s, their only wins in the group have been against Ireland. We, on the other hand, have won no game at all out of seven played in a qualifying campaign which has also included a 3-0 hammering by Turkey in Cork and failures to beat those football giants, Estonia and Georgia.

We prop up Group Two, behind Armenia, Georgia, Estonia, Turkey and a whopping 12 points behind Switzerland who are a prime example of how a country with limited resources can punch above its weight at underage level.

We used to be like that. Remember Brian Kerr's double victories in the European U16 and U18 championships in 1998 and his third place with the U20s in that year's World Cup? But we don't have Brian Kerr any more. We have Don Givens. And while Don Givens may have been a great striker for Ireland, he has been an abysmal manager. The only other countries unable to secure a win in qualifying so far are Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Malta, Macedonia and Azerbaijan.

What is happening with the current U21 team is no one-off occurrence. In the last qualifying campaign, we also finished bottom of the group, with five points from eight games. In those eight games we conceded 14 goals and scored four. Yet the FAI has allowed Don Givens to continue a reign which has lasted ten years with no success at all.

You might have some sympathy for Don Givens were he not so quick at spotting the mote in everyone else's eye. He has managed to fall out with such promising players as Keith Treacy, Anthony Stokes, Richie Foran and Chris McCann. In one game as caretaker senior boss in 2002, he had a row with David Connolly while recently he saw it as his duty to lambast Stephen Ireland.

Givens seems to think young players don't take representing Ireland seriously enough. But is there any reason they should with a manager like him in charge? The FAI is failing our best young players. Stealing players from Northern Ireland is hardly the solution to the problem.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/givens-does-not-justify-the-means-2091397.html?from=dailynews

Xavi6

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

To be fair, at U-21's we will always see a dip because any 19 or 20 year old who is real quality will be involved in the senior squad, like McCarthy.

Same goes for any Armenian equivalents though.